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Video Killed the Radio Star

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Joe Mondello
Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 7:21:43 pm

Did you edit pre-NLEs? Did you have hundreds of thousands invested in Movioloas or VTRs? Do you have decades of experience doing things "the old fashioned way?".

If you answered YES you will likely HATE Final Cut Pro -- you know the original one from back in 1999.

Well it's now a little more than a decade later, things have changed again but the same chorus of complaints are rising yet again.

Sure it feels good to say dismissively that "FCPX is really iMovie Pro." Turns out to be true, too, because iMovie 8 was originally written to be a lightweight front-end to Final Cut to be called "First Cut". Apple (probably Jobs) decided it should become the next iteration of iMovie. Howls went up and the old version of iMovie was restored for a while as the current iMovie was refined and improved.

That could happen here, too. Apple might let people buy the FCS3 upgrade a while longer if there is enough outcry. But seriously what's the point? We are living through a sea change in still/motion imaging and post-production. It is adapt or die time . . . again. "Video Killed the Radio Star" is not just a song title.

I used to be in commercial slide production. We had a really nice business with top (Fortune 500) clients, a staff of 17 and a 4 story brownstone in midtown Manhattan. First GE came out with Genigraphics for $250K, then Autographics (based on an Apple ][e) came at about $30K. We bought the Autographics and suddenly a single operator could perform the tasks of typesetter, proofreader, chartist, mechanical artist and photographer. At the time I said "I feel like a blacksmith watching the first cars roll by." And then PowerPoint came out meaning that anyone could make their own slide presentations right at their own desks. We sold off that business. That was nearly 30 years ago.

My suggestion is to get over the fact that Apple didn't do what you wanted -- or even think you "needed" -- them to do with this new release.

Get over it right now, today. Buy FCPX, learn it and realize that your talent is NOT in how to be a good FCP7 operator, it is in how to cut together a story. Because THAT will be the only thing which will distinguish you from the rise of the talented amateur who will be able to buy and use the same tools you'll be using but has no background in editing theory or technique, no idea what a "B roll" is (or was or why it is needed), no understanding of the term "jump cut", no idea who Sergei Eisenstein was or why he's important, has never seen the famous moon and clouds to cow's eye cut in "Un Chien Analou" -- and never will.

In other words, we are again experiencing what Toffler termed "the shock of the new". It hits every industry every so often. The pace of change in my lifetime (I'm 60) has only been accelerating and complaining that you can't do this or that the way you used to do it is like me telling you that I come from the era when "cut and paste" literally meant using an Xacto knife and rubber cement and that I still prefer those tools (I don't).

Hating change does you no good in the long run. Play to your strengths (or go take advantage of $300 off on Adobe Premiere Pro for FCP switchers), but seriously, don't waste your time being mad at Apple or Randy Ubillos or Steve Jobs. Final Cut Pro X is Apple's vision of the future. Given their track record, I'd pay a lot of attention to where they are going.

Seriously, don't we all have legacy gear hanging around somewhere just in case we might need it? FCP7 is now legacy gear. That is a fact. Keep a working MacPro with a SnowLeopard boot drive and FCS 3 on it just in case, but please don't keep your eyes -- your vision -- glued to the rear view mirror, if only because it is not in your best interest to do so.

_________
Cheers,
Joe


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 7:56:02 pm

no no, we're not experiencing the shock of the new, we're experiencing the shock of getting shafted.
X is a tool not fit for professional purpose designed for consumers: it's shite editing software. telling me to shake it off will not alter the fundamental key problems with this software, those problems exist because they did not code the software for professional use. It IS a 64 bit iMovie. the kid in the youtube video is buying it. That's apple's market. My eyes aren't glued on the rear view mirror, they're glued to apple's fat ass, because if I get a chance I am going to bury my boot in it.







http://bit.ly/jIUH2N


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Kenny
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 7:59:39 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "X is a tool not fit for professional purpose designed for consumer"

Actually, it transpires that:

a) iMovie '08 started life as 'First Cut', a 'a professional-level “feeder” app for Final Cut Pro' (designed to organize footage and provide an efficient interface for rough cuts, to be refined and output from FCP).

b) FCP X is not actually based on the iMovie codebase.

At least if you believe a guy who used to be on the FCP team.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 8:10:55 pm

I read the same article at dvcreator - I'm not talking about who wrote the code for where, I'm talking about functionality - look at FCP7, then look at iMovie, then look at FCPX, if you had to pick a name for FCPX what would you pick - iMovieX or FCPX?

That application is not FCP - its a beefed up iMovie, but all the key methodogy is purely intended for consumer use - the methodology of FCPX is the methodology of iMovie. It is the approach apple have taken when giving video editing capabilities to consumers - greatly simplified, dumbed down operation. That is directly the methodology and approach they have applied to FCPX. It shares almost precisely the GUI and methodology of a piece of software designed by apple for teenagers to use in their bedroom.

That we can't quite see this yet, is partly because most of us are still in shock at the shafting we've just gotten from apple.

It's not fit for professional use, Apple know that, and they couldn't give a shite.
I mean, who cares about the craft of professional editing right?

here's to the crazy ones. You assholes Apple.

http://bit.ly/jIUH2N

Famous quote from FDR:
"Randy Ubillos, you malformed buffoon, FCP7 wasn't a multitrack editor, editing is a multitrack operation, editing software is intended to be an expression of that truth."


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Kenny
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 8:23:24 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "all the key methodogy is purely intended for consumer use - the methodology of FCPX is the methodology of iMovie. It is the approach apple have taken when giving video editing capabilities to consumers - greatly simplified, dumbed down operation"

These things are not objective statements, and you've demonstrated a couple of times now that you aren't really familiar enough with the new UI to make (meaningful) sweeping judgements about its capabilities. The UI is significantly deeper than it looks at first glance. I've seen people complaining there's no keyframe editor. There is. People have claimed there's no way to separate different types of audio clips, because there are no fixed tracks. There is. You seemed to be claiming there was no way to precisely select a portion of a clip in the browser. There is. I've seen people claim the look presets were indicative of a consumer app. Guess what? They're Motion projects; they're actually demonstrating really powerful FCP/Motion integration.

People need to really sit down with this app, explore everything that it offers, understand its way of doing things, and quit making broad generalizations about it until they've done so.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 8:35:20 pm

nono chris I know enough, and I've played with it enough to speak on this forum as an invested professional thank you. You take care of your position and I'll take care of mine.

FCP had assignable tracks, two up display with viewer and canvas, a wealth of import and export abilities, amongst a million other things

iMovie had none of these things because, as a consumer application, none of these things were appropriate, and would only serve to confuse the casual consumer.

FCPX has no assignable tracks, no viewer, crippled import and export, Christ Chris FCPX IS iMovie - stop telling me that there is a world of subtle kung fu under its moron iMovie exterior

Chris - they took away the viewer, not because its a fuddy duddy convention and surplus to professional needs, they took away the viewer because there is no viewer in iMovie, there are no assignable tracks in iMovie there is one track for johnny to play with - well that is what we have now too. they've glommed on some second story bullsh*t, but at its core, at its heart it is a 1V 2A edit application - that is what the 50% of post currently holding FCP licenses are supposed to use.

It's bullsh*t

http://bit.ly/jIUH2N

Famous quote from George Washington:
"Randy Ubillos, you worthless, worthless ass, FCP7 wasn't a multitrack editor, editing is a multitrack operation, editing software is intended to be an expression of that truth."


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Kenny
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 8:40:37 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "FCP had assignable tracks, two up display with viewer and canvas, a wealth of import and export abilities, amongst a million other things"

With the exception of the import/export stuff (where, honestly, the most sensible way to look at things is that we don't know Apple's solution yet, because the absence of these features is so complete and conspicuous it's fairly clear Apple is up to something), you're focusing on specific interface elements, when what matters is capability. Basically, this is like a Windows user saying OS X is a completely unserious operating system because it lacks a Start menu, and everyone knows that's how you're supposed to launch apps.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "at its heart it is a 1V 2A edit application"

It does not have the limitations that description implies.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 8:55:13 pm

yeah but chris - the dediated viewer was capable - the dedicated viewer is very important. When I'm in an edit, and I've got a clip and little bit of black, and I hit F and I'm scrolling through that clip and looking at other shots while I'm looking at the last frame of the edit and thinking what will go where and how will it move in relation to the speed of the last shot - that is a key edit operation - it's not a specific feature - it's a critical part of the basic mental operation of editing - I would argue that the dedicated viewer, the ability to call up material in conjunction with output, not replacing it is a key part of the mental practise of editing - that that viewer is waiting there to show me things I want to think about - that it is a different thing, than output, similar to my argument for gaps that are true gaps, as opposed to slugs - the knowledge that if you delete the slug things will slam closed on some level affects my perception of control as an editor. Amongst all the other raging complaints - that apple saw fit to throw the viewer out the window is just, I said it before, it's blackboard fingernail scraping annoying.

Randy Ubillos was an arsehole for thinking he needed to completely reinvent the practise and mental approach to editing. He's even more of an arsehole for coming to the conclusion that the answer was iMovie.

http://bit.ly/jIUH2N

Famous quote from PT Barnum:
"Randy Ubillos, you day old elephant dung, FCP7 wasn't a multitrack editor, editing is a multitrack operation, editing software is intended to be an expression of that truth."


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Kenny
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 9:08:51 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I would argue that the dedicated viewer, the ability to call up material in conjunction with output, not replacing it is a key part of the mental practise of editing"

You appear to be describing something very specific to the way you edit, and assuming everyone works the same way so FCP X must be terrible for everyone. But this is not how everyone uses these tools. Many people tweak in/out points in the timeline, for instance, where FCP X can show you a two-up view when using the Precision Editor (check "Show detailed trimming feedback" in preferences).

[Aindreas Gallagher] "the knowledge that if you delete the slug things will slam closed on some level affects my perception of control as an editor"

There is no rational reason why this should be so. You appear to be very sensitive to changes in your editing environment, which is fine, but you keep turning "this works differently" into "this works badly".

By the way, selecting and deleting a gap in FCP 7 also performs a ripple delete, which is even worse there because it's actually inconsistent with FCP 7's standard deletion behavior.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 9:19:15 pm

ah no chris, I'll move happily enough and chris, its not the only way I set in and out points, sure of course the joy of FCP was that you had a multiplicity of approaches but sure never mind.

I gave you that use case to show you that there is a fundamental validity to the viewer - it's a deeply functional part of the craft of editing, to have that second space, that is my contention, but well, not according to the moron of the decade Randy Ubillos, who could not wait to share his vision of iMovie with the professional world, so instead of re-coding FCP he gave us iMovieX 64bit, and let me do a quick check - yep, iMovie has no viewer.

look at the video below chris: you're cutting on a tricked out iMovie. The thought that went into devising dumbed down consumer editing has been handed to us, lovingly, by randy - we're holding a turd sandwich.








http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Kenny
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 9:23:08 pm

Every one of these exchanges seem to start off with you making a statement that's phrased as if it's factual, and end up with you just expressing opinions and not believing that anyone could disagree with them.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 9:29:49 pm

SSh - thats my secret debating technique, you're letting the cat out of the bag.

OK - so lets try a thought experiment shall we - you are the proverbial visitor from mars, you land and the first thing you are asked to do is look at three applications, you agree -

the first application they show is FCPX (but nothing has names) then they show you FCP and iMovie, then they ask you to guess which of them is the previous version of the application.

mm?


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Kenny
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 9:35:12 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "the first application they show is FCPX (but nothing has names) then they show you FCP and iMovie, then they ask you to guess which of them is the previous version of the application."

OK, but so what? We now know FCP X and iMovie '08 and later were both derived from the editing paradigm Ubillos cooked up for 'First Cut'. I'm not sure what this is supposed to say about how 'professional' anything is, especially since First Cut was written as a companion to a professional editing app. And even aside from that, a fair bit of the reason iMovie and FCP X look more similar is just that they were designed in the same century, and for the same operating system, whereas FCP 7's UI is mostly unchanged from classic Mac OS.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 9:49:29 pm

no no that's all wrong: firstcut only referred to the tagging and organisational aspects of the skimmer - and the author was surmising that from a brief conversation with randy, that some of that thinking Randy was pursuing in his head with firstcut went into the tagging and skimming behaviour of iMovie 08

the real meat of iMovie08 - which we now agree is effectively the previous version of FCPX - all the real decisions taken there by Randy are completely independent to the specifics of what the author referred to in the piece - in this I am referring to randy's descision to - yes you know it - greatly simplify the interface - a single track of video sitting in a trackless space, a single viewer, a completely revised storage system, which has carried over as the event viewer (did you know the import dialogue box in FCPX and iMovie 08 are virtually identical?)

These are decisions Randy took when crafting consumer software for a consumer market - these are decisions carried forward directly into the application known as FCPX.

It's consumer software - Apple no longer produce professional editing software, they lied to our faces, laughed and canned FCP.

that's why we're all really angry with them.

http://bit.ly/jIUH2N


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Kenny
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 9:57:11 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "no no that's all wrong: firstcut only referred to the tagging and organisational aspects of the skimmer

That's not what the article says:

So Randy starting writing an app: “First Cut”, a professional-level “feeder” app for Final Cut Pro. You would launch First Cut, import all your raw footage, then quickly skim through, keywording, organizing, marking as good or rejecting, and finally building a rough edit.

Then you would “Export to Final Cut Pro”, and import the rough cut XML into Final Cut Pro to fine-tune edits, color grade, add titles and effects, composite, key, mix sound and do your final mastering.


[Aindreas Gallagher] "These are decisions Randy took when crafting consumer software for a consumer market"

This whole line of argument makes no sense. There are some things that are good ideas for both consumer and professional video editing applications. As a consequence, iMovie and FCP X behaving the same way in some particular respect is not by itself sufficient justification to conclude FCP X is not intended to be a pro app. This is logically equivalent to saying cars must not be a serious transportation mechanism because they share the 'wheel' feature in common with tricycles.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 10:06:21 pm

[Chris Kenny] "import all your raw footage, then quickly skim through, keywording, organizing, marking as good or rejecting, and finally building a rough edit."

yeah chris, that's the upper left of FCPX and iMovie, it doesn't cover tracks, or the viewer - firstcut refers to event area more or less - the decisions randy took when crafting iMovie 08 - a single track of video in a trackless space, a single viewer, there were decisions made necessary because he was preparing a video application for the casual consumer, so therefore he had to remove complexity - he did - iMovie is far less complicated than FCP7 - with me so far?

Good. Because here comes the tricky bit - I want you to boot up FCPX if you have it to hand, then I want you to boot up iMovie if you have it installed,
then I want you to tab cycle between the applications - (maybe best to arrange iMovie as the kid in the video has) just keep tabbing between them. One is a free install consumer app for hobbyists, the other one is the intended replacement for a mainstay professional powerhouse editing application.

Now. The thing you should be noting is that they are unnervingly similar - the tonka toy software for consumers that comes free on every Mac, and the thing that's supposed to replace FCP share near identical workflow, media management and overall GUI layout.

Is this a good thing?


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Kenny
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 27, 2011 at 12:55:23 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "yeah chris, that's the upper left of FCPX and iMovie, it doesn't cover tracks, or the viewer - firstcut refers to event area more or less - the decisions randy took when crafting iMovie 08 - a single track of video in a trackless space, a single viewer, there were decisions made necessary because he was preparing a video application for the casual consumer, so therefore he had to remove complexity - he did - iMovie is far less complicated than FCP7 - with me so far?"

No. The tool built rough edits. That implies a timeline.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "
Good. Because here comes the tricky bit - I want you to boot up FCPX if you have it to hand, then I want you to boot up iMovie if you have it installed,
then I want you to tab cycle between the applications - (maybe best to arrange iMovie as the kid in the video has) just keep tabbing between them. One is a free install consumer app for hobbyists, the other one is the intended replacement for a mainstay professional powerhouse editing application. "


Your argument basically runs "FCP X has similarities with iMovie, iMovie is a consumer app, therefore FCP X is a consumer app". But this is logically invalid on its face.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 27, 2011 at 1:56:11 pm

Oh yes for sure Chris, the logic of your argument is impeccable, because things that walk and talk like ducks very rarely turn out to be ducks.

It's iMovie Chris. It walks like iMovie, talks like iMovie, looks like iMovie, has many of the same limitations as iMovie, bears no resemblance whatsoever to FCP - it's a souped up iMovie with some bells on. It's a consumer application. They've killed FCP.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 27, 2011 at 12:43:32 am

[Chris Kenny] "Every one of these exchanges seem to start off with you making a statement that's phrased as if it's factual, and end up with you just expressing opinions and not believing that anyone could disagree with them.
"


Holy projection Batman!!! Now that's a subject you do know about Chris. I've called you on it so many times I'm hoarse.

Down South where I come from they refer to a statement like that as "the pot calling the kettle black." In psychology they refer to it as "projection."


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Chris Kenny
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 27, 2011 at 12:57:09 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Holy projection Batman!!! Now that's a subject you do know about Chris. I've called you on it so many times I'm hoarse. "

No, you've merely tried to encourage unreasonable levels of doubt with respect to Apple's statements to the media.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 27, 2011 at 7:44:19 pm

[Chris Kenny] "No, you've merely tried to encourage unreasonable levels of doubt with respect to Apple's statements to the media."

No, that's been yet another attempt to deflect my message about your inaccuracies, and you're in such denial that you're repeating like a broken record.

You must be just a picture editor Chris, because you sure don't listen very well.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Chris Kenny
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 27, 2011 at 7:49:36 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "No, that's been yet another attempt to deflect my message about your inaccuracies, and you're in such denial that you're repeating like a broken record."

Please identify these supposed inaccuracies.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Alan Okey
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 11:06:27 pm

(moved to new thread)


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Peter J. DeCrescenzo
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:25:49 am

"Thank You For Smoking"







---

http://www.peterdv.com


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Peter J. DeCrescenzo
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:26:12 am

"Thank You For Smoking"







---

http://www.peterdv.com


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Peter J. DeCrescenzo
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:26:30 am

"Thank You For Smoking"







---

http://www.peterdv.com


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Peter J. DeCrescenzo
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:26:46 am

"Thank You For Smoking"







---

http://www.peterdv.com


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Nevin Styre
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 8:04:52 pm

I find it a little funny that this new technique of editing was originally developed for creating a first (rough) cut, but now they want it to be used for creating a final cut.

I really wish apple offered a classic timeline mode in fcpx(allowing us to open past projects too), because really in FCP7 it was never my technique or paradigm of editing that was limiting the speed of my getting the job done, it was the old 32 bit architecture and slow rendering.


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Tom Matthies
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 8:20:19 pm

They took away our toolbox.
I could probably build a house with a hammer, a pair of pliers and a screwdriver but it will take a very long time and it won't be a very good house in the end.
That's what it's like.

E=MC2+/-2db


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Nelson Torres
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 8:18:30 pm

You're kind of asking a professional racer to continue winning races with this new car that sports square wooden wheels. Not all innovation is good innovation. I tried iMovie(and I know it's not FCPX). I didn't care for the way the timeline worked. In my opinion it's very clumsy and not very accurate. But that and what I hear and read is all I know about FCPX. What Apple should do is release free time limited demos of the software so that anyone can see for themselves whether they like it or not. Some people like the old FCP, some the new, some Avid, some M100, etc. Are you saying the only worthwhile professionals are the one's who embrace anything that drops out of the sky that a small indiscriminate group determines is the 'Holy Grail'? And equipment? Hell, anyone in this business knows nothing lasts forever - or even five years. It's just changing the way something works for the sake of change that gets a lot of us. If it was that great then you wouldn't have that many dissenters. You can't disparage them for not liking the change, especially when the change hinders, or cripples their work environment.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 9:05:32 pm

Joe - I am obviously of your generation and get all the references. I posted on this forum elsewhere a comment about "how to turn off audio scrub" by noting that when we used Moviolas we simply pivoted the audio head up, off of the track.

I went on to talk about exactly your point regarding adjusting to the new paradigm every few years, as we went to flatbeds and tape editing and eventually expensive NLEs, then cheap NLEs... and now the cheapest "Pro" NLE of all.

My gripe is simple: when we had to adjust to sea changes in the past, we had years to do it. The first flatbeds were for the lead editor only, with all of the assistants assembling cutting reels on sync blocks and upright Moviolas. So we had time to adjust.

But by pulling FCS3 and its support with no notice, Apple will cause many of us to take a serious time & money hit. We must keep working as always, PLUS strategize how to painstakingly convert all of our still-current projects to XML and then recreate them in Premiere or Avid. In this economy, in my small Mom & Pop shop, it is not possible to just stop working and spend the rest of the summer converting my project archive, against the possibility that FCP7 may start crashing under Lion.

I love the ideas behind FCPX, and will definitely adopt it as THE NLE to use in my high school film/video class. And I will start doing new projects on it as well.

But I hate that Apple, like many manufacturers of a perfectly good product, simply pulled FCS3 in one day. I have spent a decade of time and money on Apple software and hardware -- and remember it is we graphic, music and video pros that kept that company alive and gave it the "pro" cache while Gil Amelio was trying to run the entire enterprise aground.

So I think a mega-billion corp could afford a little professional courtesy in supporting the Apple faithful through this sea change.

Doug D


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Chris Kenny
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 9:21:15 pm

[Douglas K. Dempsey] "But by pulling FCS3 and its support with no notice, Apple will cause many of us to take a serious time & money hit. We must keep working as always, PLUS strategize how to painstakingly convert all of our still-current projects to XML and then recreate them in Premiere or Avid."

This is kind of silly. FCS3 is not going to become literally unavailable any time soon. As I noted previously, some editors/facilities stuck with FCS2 for a year or two after FCS3 shipped. For some reason the forums weren't full of people freaking out about how Apple was no longer selling FCS2, so if they needed to add any new seats they'd have the expense of migrating all their existing projects/seats to FCS3 for compatibility.

If FCS3 was working for you a week ago, it still is. If you need to add new seats, it might be a bit more hassle, but it's still possible to find copies.

My approach is to keep using FCS3 (and playing with FCP X) until there's a clearer picture of FCP X's future prospects, and then make a decision whether to go with FCP X or Premiere in the long run. (I'm not a big Avid fan, for a variety of reasons.) I just don't quite see what's supposed to be so terrible about all of this.

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Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

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Steve Mitchell
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 9:23:24 pm

Internet killed the video star

Just sayin....


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Jason Wood
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 9:49:09 pm

No,, I believe the Internet created the video star.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 26, 2011 at 11:12:35 pm

Joe -

I don't see the revolution here. I don't see the sea change. I see a slightly different NLE. This is not the same as going from film to tape, or from linear CMX style tape to NLE. This is like going from Avid to Sony Vegas. It might be a good design, it might suck, it's probably in the middle. It's just a pain in the ass to those of us who were happy with the system we had and were waiting for it to get spiffed up to 64 bit for speed. Since I have no reason to change editing styles, since FCPX lacks many of the features I need to do my work, I am disappointed that there won't be a FCP 8.

The complaints about Apples handling of a business product, the lack of warning, the sudden removal of the Pro Ap upgrader are legitimate complaints. I am sure Apple execs are hearing this big time from some of the major studios and broadcasters that have just been shut out of an upgrade path.

While the FCPX introduction is not the end of this world, it's also not the start of a brave new world. It is not clear that there is any paradigm shift going on in anyone's mind but the creators of FCPX. And make no mistake, when it comes to professional business products, Apple has made tons of mistakes, their wreckage is all over the road.

The old line is that to make an omelet you have to break some eggs. So show me the omelet.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Jonathan Dortch
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 27, 2011 at 12:17:51 am

Bravo to this post, Joe. Words of wisdom in uncertain times. I still hope our storm of complaints can return some functionality to the our platform of choice, but there is no gain to be found in fighting progress.

JONATHAN DORTCH
BLACK WOLF CREATIVE


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stephen knifton
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 27, 2011 at 2:24:55 am

i think these past five days can be summed up pretty quickly ... the defenders and fans of fcp-ex are free to buy it, use it, wait for apple to improve it, make money with it.

the rest of us will follow the only option(s) we have, and head to avid or adobe.

simple.

i've wasted enough time; see you in adobeville.


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john spirou
Re: Video Killed the Radio Star
on Jun 27, 2011 at 8:48:18 am

I am a PRO , but i dont mind to call someone young (as the childs on youtube who biught FCPX) PRO or anything...
He is the future, and if he can make BETTER videos than me , he is a PRO !

You said , that WE supported Apple many years now (with FCP etc) , the same thing those kids support Apple NOW.

We are the past, they are the future.... so simple.

If you dont like FCPX or you cant use it in every dayw projects , move to other programms.

I am using ALL of the NLE , Avic composer, Adobe Premiere CS5 and of course FCP.

In MY projects , i wiil use FCPX....


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