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Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID

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Andre van Berlo
Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 26, 2013 at 12:08:20 pm
Last Edited By Andre van Berlo on Dec 26, 2013 at 12:08:53 pm

Alright everyone,

RAID

I’ve got quite a few 1TB, 2TB, 3TB drives for storage but want to start using a RAID for much needed read/write speed. (my current drives are either USB 2.0 or 3.0)

I was looking at the LACIE 2big thunderbolt in RAID 0 giving a read of 630MB/s and a write of 400MB/s. That should be more than enough for my needs.

However, I’m wondering if I can use one of my slower 2TB/3TB disks as a backup for that disk? As the LACIE 2big is already in RAID 0, can I set that in RAID 1 with the slow disk or doesn’t it work that way? I don’t care that the back up goes slowly, but I do care about the read/write speeds of my media disk.

Maybe there are other alternatives?

Thanks in advance,

Andre


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olof ekbergh
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 26, 2013 at 2:06:07 pm

The best fast and redundant RAID is level 5 or above. These cost more and use more drives but are redundant and fast.

If you can only afford RAID 0 then using your slower USB drives to either manually or automatically back up your working RAID is easy, just do it after each working session.

You can use TimeMachine to do this automatically if you do custom settings or lots of other automated BU programs. The only down side is that it works best to do this after each day, so you are vulnerable if a drive fails during a working session.

Olof Ekbergh


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Andre van Berlo
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 27, 2013 at 6:53:48 am

Thanks olof ekbergh!

I think for now RAID 5 will be too much space for me to handle. The RAID 0 probably what I'll be doing but I didn't know I could use Time Machine also for external storage so I'll definitely check to see if it works the way I want.

But essentially I could have a fast RAID 0 that will be backed up by a slow HD and I can choose which folders it backs up and which folders it doesn't.

I did find the time machine backup folders to become quite large over time, as it is keeping files in there I've already deleted. Do you manually delete those files in Time Machine after your project is done?

André


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 26, 2013 at 3:59:19 pm

[Andre van Berlo] "However, I’m wondering if I can use one of my slower 2TB/3TB disks as a backup for that disk? As the LACIE 2big is already in RAID 0, can I set that in RAID 1 with the slow disk or doesn’t it work that way? I don’t care that the back up goes slowly, but I do care about the read/write speeds of my media disk."

You can most definitely use your Lacie for backup, but not as RAID-1 - RAID-1, or mirroring, requires two identical drives. So, if there are two hard drives inside the Lacie, you could set the two drive in a RAID-1 to mirror one another bit for bit, but not to mirror your larger RAID.

FYI, the closest thing to mirroring would be automated cloning via SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner, However, as Olaf mentioned, Time Capsule would be a good free backup solution. Keep in mind, since most ingest/capture happens toward the beginning of most projects, your media files don't really change all that much during editing, so no elaborate backup schemes are really necessary as projects progress. Your project files change daily (i.e. metadata), but not your media files.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Andre van Berlo
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 27, 2013 at 7:01:06 am

Thanks David Roth! "You can most definitely use your Lacie for backup, but not as RAID-1 - RAID-1, or mirroring, requires two identical drives." I didn't know that but makes sense. I guess that means I could not set up 2 different external drives and set them up as a RAID.
In any case RAID has become a lot clearer now and I will probably use the LACIE in RAID 0 and have it backed up by time machine or CC cloner. ( I was going to use CC cloner to make a clone of my bootdrive so whenever I was going to need a fresh install I could use the clone )

Andre


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 27, 2013 at 5:33:05 pm

Stay away from LaCie disks. They have the worst reputation, and personally I have had 2 of them crash. I would take a look at Glyph disks if I was you.

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Andre van Berlo
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 27, 2013 at 9:35:57 pm

Thanks! I'll check those disks out. I also say these http://www.caldigit.com/T3/

Impressive performance!


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Rick Lang
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 28, 2013 at 5:08:01 pm

The CalDigit T3 looks quite interesting. Only the 10Gb/s Thunderbolt but the hybrid combinations could be interesting. For example you could RAID 0 a pair of 960 GB SSDs in two bays and the third bay could be a 2 TB backup hard disk that you remove for archival storage.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Andre van Berlo
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 28, 2013 at 8:50:52 pm

Thanks Rick,

Actually that sounds like a very good solution but is the T3 for sale already? Couldn't find it in stores yet.

It'll be either that trick or put 3 HDD's in RAID 0 in that T3 and have an external HDD as a backup disk (I have quite a few of them, might as well put em to good use).

Thing is only that with SSD's that big, the difference in price with a pegasus r6 (6TB version) isn't that big anymore is it?

Andre


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Rick Lang
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 28, 2013 at 9:15:32 pm

CalDigit is available online around the world via PayPal or Amazon depending upon your region:

http://www.caldigit.com/Purchase.asp

You don't get the benefit of RAID 5 and Thunderbolt 2 as you would from the Promise Pegasus2, but I thought the prices looked good. In the Americas, a 12 TB T3 costs $1,199 using three 4 TB HDDs. A 2.88TB T3 costs $2,799 using three 960 GB SSDs. A Pegasus2 6-bay, 12 or 18 TB costs $2,299 or $2,999 from Apple and that's 9.7 or 14.7 TB in RAID 5.

If you really want to be super safe you can configure the RAID 1 on the three drives so that drive two and three are copies of drive one. Someone could find that handy for making copies for offsite or client storage.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 28, 2013 at 10:36:46 pm

[Rick Lang] "If you really want to be super safe you can configure the RAID 1 on the three drives so that drive two and three are copies of drive one. Someone could find that handy for making copies for offsite or client storage."

Yes, but since the speed would drop dramatically to the one allowed by a single drive, I think there are cheaper options if one is looking for data safety. The reason I'd buy a TB raid instead of using an esata arrays via a USB3 to esata adapter or an USB3 array (I bought a driveless two bays RAID 1/0/JBOD one for about 120,00 €) would be speed.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


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Rick Lang
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 29, 2013 at 12:51:36 am
Last Edited By Rick Lang on Dec 29, 2013 at 12:52:47 am

Fabrizio, you may not have noticed the detailed description regarding CalDigit T3 RAID 1 performance:

"When a RAID device is configured into a RAID 1, it traditionally reduces the speed of the drive because it will mirror the data onto all of the drives. However, the T3 with SSDs can actually keep relatively the same read speeds when configured into a RAID 1. This means that users will get the same read performance, and three automatic back-ups of their data. Traditional 2-bay RAID 1 devices tend to have speeds of around 190MB/s. The T3 in RAID 1 with SSDs can reach read speeds of 820MB/s. That’s over four times the read speed over traditional 2-bay RAIDs!"

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Question about thunderbolt storage & RAID
on Dec 29, 2013 at 11:07:17 am

You're right, Rick, I didn't notice it. It sounds great.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


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