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A step backwards

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Loren Risker
A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 6:14:57 pm

There's lots of discussion about what 10.1 didn't add, but any features people feel was a step backwards? I really enjoy editing in fcpx - as long as they don't break anything I don't care so much about the rest.

-------------
OutOfFocus.TV - Original series, music videos, mini-docs.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 6:55:21 pm

No offence to anyone here.

I feel like a lot of the naysaing is from people who don't really use it.

To those that do use it, Libraries are a very 'necessary' part of the equation, and although relatively minor, the adjustments that have been made to the UI are good adjustments.

Also, FXPlug3, if delivered as promised, sounds like it will be good for developers, which is good for users.

And then there's the increase in performance.

If all of that is moving backwards, I'm an idiot.

Jeremy


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Mitch Ives
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 7:03:39 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "No offence to anyone here.

I feel like a lot of the naysaing is from people who don't really use it.

To those that do use it, Libraries are a very 'necessary' part of the equation, and although relatively minor, the adjustments that have been made to the UI are good adjustments.

Also, FXPlug3, if delivered as promised, sounds like it will be good for developers, which is good for users.

And then there's the increase in performance.

If all of that is moving backwards, I'm an idiot."


I don't understand your post Jeremy.

I use... it's all I use.

The Library thing is subjective. You say it's a good thing... I'm ambivalent on the change.

FXPlug3 is like ObamaCare... nobody knows what it'll mean until it's actually here.

Increase in performance? What, with a new MacPro cylinder? I'm not seeing an increase on a current maxed out MacPro. In fact, it's occasionally a bit more sluggish. Removing the Apple Track Pad seems to have helped a bit (its incompatible), but it's slower than hell at redrawing waveforms. It wasn't like that before.

Apparently, I'm the idiot...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Craig Seeman
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 7:07:06 pm

I think the Library function is going to be a major step forward for most facilities to consider FCPX.
I don't doubt there were a few beta testers that were facilities based.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 8:08:25 pm

[Mitch Ives] "I don't understand your post Jeremy."

I told you I was an idiot.

[Mitch Ives] "The Library thing is subjective. You say it's a good thing... I'm ambivalent on the change.

FXPlug3 is like ObamaCare... nobody knows what it'll mean until it's actually here.

Increase in performance? What, with a new MacPro cylinder? I'm not seeing an increase on a current maxed out MacPro. In fact, it's occasionally a bit more sluggish. Removing the Apple Track Pad seems to have helped a bit (its incompatible), but it's slower than hell at redrawing waveforms. It wasn't like that before.
"


All of these changes I have mentioned are plumbing changes. They are super, non-marketable, non-sexy changes to most people. To some people, though, they are really sexy. It's a fetish.

This update will bring forward better workflows in more places, and yes, it might take a little while longer.

I am finding that the application does move faster on the same hardware, and it will really become apparent when the new MacPro ships to everyone. Performance, on many levels, seems to be the overall update to 10.1. I know a LOT of people were asking for more or better performance.

Have a look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-myFXiEh2Q#t=0

Jeremy


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Mitch Ives
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 10:22:40 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I told you I was an idiot."

Yeah, and I said I was because I didn't understand your post.

I understand your point now. I think everyone agrees this is an improvement, the variable is how big a step someone thinks it is, and that seems to vary with who needed what?

I'm glad this works better for bigger houses. It doesn't do much for me, but it doesn't have to. If the price of making this a better collaborative tool for them is me wasting a day updating projects and manually relinking files... I can live with that.

As for performance I'm seeing a mix. Some things are quicker, but certain timeline updates seem slower. I guess everybody's mileage my vary. As for the new MacPro, yes I'm guessing that'll be a must. I was planning to get one, but the February thing is a bit disheartening. Hey, maybe I'll have 10.1 figured out by then...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 10:27:52 pm

We haven't ordered new hardware yet either. Mostly because we have been too busy to gather a list of all the necessary parts, and there will be necessary parts.

There's a slight advantage as we can wait for the Thunderbolt 2 peripherals to trickle out.

My thinking right now is to get PCIe enclosures, but I go back and forth all the time.

Jeremy


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Mitch Ives
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 10:34:23 pm

My Pegasus2 ships tomorrow. I'll have it next week.

I didn't realize there is a TB to dual DVI cable from Apple. That means I can keep my 30" display.

Here's the tricky part. As it's been explained to me, adding a TB1 device pulls down the TB2 to TB1 speeds. Since there are only three controllers for the six ports, you effectively get four TB2 ports, since any display or older TB1 device will pull down one controller (and thus two ports).

Ahhh... the things to think about...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 10:42:01 pm

[Mitch Ives] "Here's the tricky part. As it's been explained to me, adding a TB1 device pulls down the TB2 to TB1 speeds. Since there are only three controllers for the six ports, you effectively get four TB2 ports, since any display or older TB1 device will pull down one controller (and thus two ports).

Ahhh... the things to think about..."


Exactly. This is why I am trying to wait just a bit longer, and the delay might actually be a blessing in disguise.

If you haven't seen it, here's the TB2 port mapping for the new MacPro:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5918?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US


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Mitch Ives
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 10:54:45 pm

Until Apple gives us TB2 displays, I think we're shot. I wonder if they're even considering that?

Things like the IoXT, BM, etc. will all need updates as well...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Brett Sherman
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 21, 2013 at 2:59:07 pm
Last Edited By Brett Sherman on Dec 21, 2013 at 3:00:34 pm

[Mitch Ives] "If the price of making this a better collaborative tool for them is me wasting a day updating projects and manually relinking files... I can live with that."

Lucky you. I've got a week at least. They could have made the transition easier. Rather than converting managed files to managed files they could have simply turned the managed media into external media leaving it in place and created new libraries and events linked to the original location.

Now it seems that Apple is now listening to the large facilities...at the expense of us small fries.

Although I echo your sentiments, if this creates a larger market share I'm all behind it. I just think the transition was simply not well thought out.



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Mitch Ives
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 22, 2013 at 7:53:11 pm

[Brett Sherman] "Lucky you. I've got a week at least. They could have made the transition easier. Rather than converting managed files to managed files they could have simply turned the managed media into external media leaving it in place and created new libraries and events linked to the original location. "

Actually, I was trying to be positive. It's taking a lot longer than that...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Ty Vann
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 21, 2013 at 12:00:32 am

I signed up for Obamacare and saved a couple of hundred a year. That's money earned, which I will put toward a shiny new Apple Tube :). But that's beside the point.

The point is the new Library may be subjective, but I'm loving it subjectively. It's exactly what I have been waiting for. I can sort of see where Apple is going with this as a foundation to build on, and I'm liking it a lot. Also the other little improvements to increase speed and stability I highly welcome.


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Michael Garber
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 7:06:31 pm

I'm an idiot because I keep hitting CMD-0 to bring up projects.

I see this version a very, very, VERY solid framework for moving forward. It has been rock solid for me so far, but admittedly I have tons of testing ahead of me.

There's no step backwards. As with any update there are little things here or there that I'd like to see added or fixed. Happily, I've yet to find any deal breakers, show stoppers, or things that would keep me from working just as I have been doing for the past year. If anything, my workflow just got a lot better.

I just learned that you can move multiple keyframes together and also copy/paste them to different attributes. That's definitely a step forward.

Michael Garber
5th Wall - a post production company
Blog: GARBERSHOP
My Moviola Webinar on Cutting News in FCP X


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Paul Neumann
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 7:18:44 pm

With 10.1 when I navigate to a footage from my XF100, mark all my takes and hit "import" it brings in one clip. Yep, just one clip. So I'd call that a step backwards.

If I import the entire CONTENTS folder it brings in every clip, but then I have to mark the selects (and reject the ones I don't want) from inside the Event viewer or whatever the hell it's called now.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 7:41:27 pm

[Paul Neumann] "With 10.1 when I navigate to a footage from my XF100, mark all my takes and hit "import" it brings in one clip. Yep, just one clip. So I'd call that a step backwards."

Is that AVCHD? If so, there's now native support for it.

I haven't tested, but it has changed.


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Paul Neumann
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 8:14:42 pm

No it's not AVCHD. And I've been using FCPX with these cameras since day one. It's broken now. Another thing with this is when I go to import selects (which it really won't) it insists on copying the media to another location but if I import the entire CONTENTS folder it links to it.

I'll check with Canon and see if there's a new MXF utility for Mavericks. They had to put one out when X first came out, but eventually I think Apple took over making sure all Canon was supported.


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Matt Galuszewski
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 9:14:11 pm

(Paul Newmann) Another thing with this is when I go to import selects (which it really won't) it insists on copying the media to another location but if I import the entire CONTENTS folder it links to it.

I have a XF100 and I can import selects either to a FCP X Library or an external location.

I am happy to answer any questions - maybe I am misunderstanding your problem.

Matt



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Paul Neumann
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 11:42:50 pm

First off I'm using a Early 2013 Macbook Pro Retina maxed out with 16gig ram/512 SSD updated with Mavericks and a November 2013 iMac i7/24gig with Mavericks. External Thunderbolt storage for both of them. Now that the gear is out of the way let me just say that this new FCPX is a total head scratcher.

on the iMac:
Sees cards (full copies of cards that is) from XF100 just fine and imports selects.
Sees cards from XA10 (AVCHD) fine but renames clips as "Clip #1, Clip #2..."

on the MBP:
Sees cards from XF100 but only imports first clip of however many selects you choose.
Doesn't even recognize any AVCHD file structures on any number of drives I plug in.

The thing is just earlier this week I was mixing clips from both of these cameras on both of these machines with 10.0.9.

And for the record Prelude sees everything just fine. No problems at all.


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Glenn Grant
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 8:35:38 pm

A client gave me a thumb drive with .mts files on it and 10.0.9 would not recognize them, but 10.1 does. No fold structure or last clip.txt file just the .mts files and I can import them no problem. I am not sure what camera it was shot with but the according to FCPX it h.264


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 8:50:59 pm

[Glenn Grant] "A client gave me a thumb drive with .mts files on it and 10.0.9 would not recognize them, but 10.1 does. No fold structure or last clip.txt file just the .mts files and I can import them no problem. I am not sure what camera it was shot with but the according to FCPX it h.264"

That's because FCP 10.1 can read mts as well as mts2 files without the AVCHD folder structure.


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David Mathis
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 7:13:37 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "No offence to anyone here.

I feel like a lot of the naysaing is from people who don't really use it."


None taken. I think X is often not understood and considered a toy by some. I used to have that mindset but after working with it I do see potential. Complaints are few and minor on my side of the fence.

The only thing is they need to add other than tracks is the "Send To Motion" option. Given that a lower third, transition, effect and generator can be created in Motion for later use in X is a nice feature. Saves time and is very easy to do. That is a plus in my book.

Color board does not bother me as much since that part of the workflow is done inside of Resolve. Also glad to see the LUT utility available. So there are no curves or color wheel, not a major ordeal since everything gets shipped off to Resolve for that work.


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Charlie Austin
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 7:23:04 pm

[David Mathis] "The only thing is they need to add other than tracks"

That is never going to happen. :-) But Roles will get a lot better...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Charlie Austin
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 20, 2013 at 7:18:28 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "If all of that is moving backwards, I'm an idiot."


A-fricking-men. The only step backward to me is inability to scrund a project in the browser. Though, based on the fact that opening the 10.0 project library brought my shiny new maxed out mac to a grinding halt, I get why that's gone for now.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jim Giberti
Re: A step backwards
on Dec 21, 2013 at 1:25:52 am

I couldn't be happier with Libraries.
Even as a small facility, it was my single biggest issue with X - I really didn't need the headaches associated with a poorly thought out media implementation.

Going into the next round of projects, using a few different systems, I can't tell you how relieved I was to see that addressed in a grownup way.

It gives me hope that things like color and audio implementation are recognized as similarly immature and that they need to put on big boy pants too.


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