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Projects not scrubbing in the event

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Bret Williams
Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 4:45:11 pm

So I upgraded my first set of events/projects to a library. A current project (yes, probably a horrible idea, but a very simple project) and it all went fine. The only thing I notice is that you can't scrub the projects from within the event. Even if I open the event viewer, it just says the name of the project, but no scrubbing. They open and load just fine, and the media in the event scrubs just fine. Having played with the new iMoive, this is one of the cool new features of this new file management system. The projects are scrubbable, just like compound clips were in 10.0.x. Am I missing a setting?


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 4:58:02 pm

[Bret Williams] "The projects are scrubbable, just like compound clips were in 10.0.x. Am I missing a setting?"

Nope. I hope they'll enable it soon though, I've whined about it to Apple...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bret Williams
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:02:30 pm

Wait, you can't scrub them in iMoive. Either I was wrong, or the Mavericks update broke this. I could've sworn you could scrub projects in iMovie. Well this is definitely a step backward.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:12:27 pm

I can't upgrade today, but can you still have separate Projects if you want them, or do they ave to be in a Event now?

Is there still a Project Browser?

Jeremy


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:17:33 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I can't upgrade today, but can you still have separate Projects if you want them, or do they ave to be in a Event now?"

Separate in what sense? They do have to be in an event. Essentially 10.1 converts your old Project Lbrary into an Event, with it's associated Events in each new Library. you could make a new Library and drag a just project into it to share or something though...


[Jeremy Garchow] "Is there still a Project Browser?"

Nope. Good in one way, but bad in that projects aren't scrubbable anymore. That needs to come back.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:24:04 pm

Separate in the sense that it was a completely separate file in the Finder.

I really didn't mind things being separate, but I'm sure the Libraries will be cool too.

You could tell that Apple was going to bundle the file structure.


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Bret Williams
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:46:37 pm

The projects are still separate in the finder if you show package contents on an event. They're there, just relegated to a different place. Really the media changes are pretty simple, but far reaching in their effect.


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Bret Williams
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:26:03 pm

Even in iMoive they have a two additional views in the "browser." All Projects, and All Events. I'd like to see that in X. If you have separate projects in different events, it'd be nice to cut through and just see open/mounted projects.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:31:47 pm

You can. With a library selected, use the view popup (gear thingy) to group clips by File type.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bret Williams
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:44:39 pm

Not quite the same thing. If I wanted to see all the projects in all the Libraries in one place, I'd have to first change the grouping as you say, then select all the libraries. The iMovie thing is pretty novel. It's sort of a smart collection of file type that lives outside the libraries.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:50:30 pm

[Bret Williams] "The iMovie thing is pretty novel. It's sort of a smart collection of file type that lives outside the libraries."

Gotcha... well, like I said, iMovie more or less = FCP X now, so maybe something like it will appear... :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:34:30 pm

You can. With a library selected, use the view popup to group clips by File type.

[Bret Williams] "Even in iMoive they have a two additional views in the "browser.""

Also, FWIW, Alex4D was correct... iMovie an X are basically now the same app with UI differences. So it's a safe bet that any cool iMovie features could possibly appear in X at some point.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:36:50 pm

Thanks guys.

I'm reading though this on lunch break: http://images.apple.com/final-cut-pro/docs/Media_Management.pdf

Glad to see that there's new definitions too, managed media, external media, generated media etc.


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Bret Williams
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 5:23:45 pm

There is no more project library(browser). if you launch with events and projects mounted you have to convert them, which amounts to all the events and projects being placed into a library.

Use event manager to make sure you only have the events and projects mounted that you want to convert to a library. In the library, the projects are all placed into an event. Kinda akin to keeping your sequences in a bin in legacy.

As I mentioned weeks ago when I saw how libraries was implemented in iMoive, Libraries are essentially legacy type projects. But with much more flexibility. And trying to discuss the similarities of the two is extremely mind boggling because of the crossover naming convention of projects being two completely different things in both. But if youi look at the new structure as it equates to legacy, - Libraries=Projects, Events=Bins, and Projects=Sequences.

But unlike FCP legacy, if you open multiple libraries and use media from one library in a project in another library, X will copy that file (or reference I assume) into the corresponding event and so forth. So you won't ever need to mount an external library to get your project to play. I how I remember the issues of having multiple projects open in legacy! Digitizing to the wrong capture scratch, etc. They've eliminated those issues.

All in all it looks like a better setup for most workflows. Except not scrubbing the projects! Perhaps they decided that was just way too much of a memory hog. And it was.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 6:14:25 pm

So if you have multiple Events in a Library, how do you search keywords? Do you have to select multiple Events or can you search the Library?


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Bret Williams
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 7:00:09 pm

You can search the library. In this aspect, as far as I can tell, the library is just a container. If you select it, it's the same as shift clicking all the events contained within.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 7:02:08 pm

[Bret Williams] "You can search the library. In this aspect, as far as I can tell, the library is just a container."

Libraries essentially function like mounted disks did in 10.0. So, yes, searchable etc...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 7:04:13 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Dec 19, 2013 at 7:05:55 pm

[Bret Williams] " If you select it, it's the same as shift clicking all the events contained within."

Hmm.

So if you are in a kw collection in an Event, the only other way to search another or all Event is to shift select what you want, or click the library.

And kw collections are Event specific and not attached to the library, right?


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 7:05:39 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "And kw collections are Event specific and not attached to the library, right?"

Yep, just as before...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 7:06:34 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Yep, just as before..."

So you can't have an Eventless library with clips in it.

A Library HAS to have an Event.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 7:11:50 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "So you can't have an Eventless library with clips in it.

A Library HAS to have an Event"


yep. I explain it in a rambling way towards the end of my little blog post...

blog-whoring link

:-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bret Williams
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 7:06:10 pm

Correct. I don't see how this differers from past function. Does it?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 7:08:42 pm

[Bret Williams] "Correct. I don't see how this differers from past function. Does it?"

I was hoping that the Library could function like the Events of yesterday without having to add yet another object in the UI.


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 7:38:18 pm

This whole new Library model is good but it will take some getting used to and we will have to think about how to organize updated older projects.

I'm looking at the new Ripple Training tutorials and there is a lot of good (and important!) information there.
Must-see for current FCPX users. They have even put out the first 3 movies out for free just because it's so vital for excisting users.

But I'm wondering: you used to be able to put projects in a hierarchical folder structure.
Is something like this still possible?
Could you make a folder structure in the Event like you can do now (wherein you can put keyword collections) and put projects in there somewhere so you can have some kind of organization for people with a LOT of projects tied to a certain Event?

On an off topic note I have the feeling that we didn't got the huge feature update a lot of us hoped for but let's hope with the new foundations that the development team can focus on providing a lot of new features on a quick schedule again.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 8:12:12 pm

[Mathieu Ghekiere] "I'm looking at the new Ripple Training tutorials and there is a lot of good (and important!) information there. "

I noticed they have some excerpts out for free. They look very helpful and dive in to a lot more of the editing features than even the Apple website.

[Mathieu Ghekiere] "But I'm wondering: you used to be able to put projects in a hierarchical folder structure.
Is something like this still possible?"


From what I gathered here, you can still see Projects in the Finder, but you have to unpack the Library to get there. I don't know if modifying the Package Contents with the Finder as you could the Project Library would screw anything up.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 8:32:19 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "From what I gathered here, you can still see Projects in the Finder, but you have to unpack the Library to get there. I don't know if modifying the Package Contents with the Finder as you could the Project Library would screw anything up.
"


You can, but I'd suggest extreme caution... As before, shuffling things at the Finder level can have unexpected consequences. I'd imagine more so now that everythings in a package

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bret Williams
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 9:02:02 pm

They're definitely trying to discourage messing around in the finder by making the library a launchable document. Already my current project looks more akin to a FCP 7 project. I have my project folder with all my photoshop files, AE files, audio files, and now, a nice singular little library file. So for the first time ever, it's all in one place. Even in legacy there were render files and capture scratch files living somewhere else. You could put them anywhere but you'd have to remember to change the settings next project! They've really solved quite a few of those problems. I can now grab one folder and drop it on an external and know it's all there. And by putting auto saves on the boot drive, I could also operate like legacy by having my small files on the boot drive, and the library on the external for safety.


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Bill Davis
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 10:12:06 pm

[Bret Williams] "They're definitely trying to discourage messing around in the finder by making the library a launchable document. "

"Messing around" yes, absolutely.

But I was interested to read in the Apple White Paper - that now that we have Libraries, Apple officially supports doing finder copies of entire Libraries in X.

So at least having all the assets consolidated into a top level structure means those on centralized storage systems can move things around more easily.

In the new structure, we're all going to have to spend some time wrapping our brains around how the new types of references assets work I suspect. But at least Libraries mean that there s a single top level container that will help in collaborative workflows.

I am sad to lose my beloved laid out Project Libraries - but I'm trusting that with this loss will come new possibilities.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 10:38:12 pm

[Charlie Austin] "You can, but I'd suggest extreme caution... As before, shuffling things at the Finder level can have unexpected consequences. I'd imagine more so now that everythings in a package
"


Right, but not in the Project LIbrary.

The Project Library simply mirrored what was in the Final Cut Projects folder.

I organize Projects a lot in the Finder as you can't select more than one Project in FCPX 10.0.9.

Sheesh, I can't wait till I an update and give this thing a whirl.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 10:52:47 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I organize Projects a lot in the Finder as you can't select more than one Project in FCPX 10.0.9.
"


Well, you can now. You can also delete render files from multiple selected Projects and/or Events. In a way it's easier than FCP7's Render Manager. And by in a way, i mean it is. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 11:00:38 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Well, you can now. You can also delete render files from multiple selected Projects and/or Events. In a way it's easier than FCP7's Render Manager. And by in a way, i mean it is. :-)"

Good to know. That bothers me to no end in 10.0.9


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 8:29:15 pm

[Mathieu Ghekiere] "But I'm wondering: you used to be able to put projects in a hierarchical folder structure.
Is something like this still possible?
Could you make a folder structure in the Event like you can do now (wherein you can put keyword collections) and put projects in there somewhere so you can have some kind of organization for people with a LOT of projects tied to a certain Event?"


Absolutely, just use Keyword Collections, check this out...

http://fcpxpert.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/new-window.png

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 9:00:36 pm

Hi Charlie,

I don't know what I'm supposed to see on your picture (I can view the picture but I think I'm missing something?)
But are you saying you can put Projects into Keyword collections now?
If so that would pretty much solve my question about organizing them.

Jeremy I meant seeing them organized in FCPX, I wouldn't recommend opening packages either.

It seems with this new management that FCPX demands you to even work more from FCPX itself and with the package and the Hard Links system (see Ripple Training) shuts off more and more transparency in the Finder.


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Bret Williams
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 9:08:44 pm

Here's how I've got my current project setup. Previously the keyword collections in the "sequences" event were folders in the project library. Then I have another event for "Media" with keyword collections in it essentially working normally, kinda like bins. And the library file is akin to a legacy project. But it's a system that could work many different ways for many different situations.



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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 9:33:10 pm

Thanks Brett.

Having a library with the same name as you previous Event and then have the Event itself be renamed to Media and having another with sequences would seem like a great manner of organizing for the kind of work we do.


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Bret Williams
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 9:58:27 pm

And at least if the event gets corrupt, the projects are in a separate event. But naming it media just worked in this case because it was the only event except for one reserved for projects. It might be logical to have multiple events in a library, acting more like bins, but since key wording is tied to the event, it still seems illogical for my project based work.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 9:58:49 pm

[Mathieu Ghekiere] "I don't know what I'm supposed to see on your picture (I can view the picture but I think I'm missing something?)
But are you saying you can put Projects into Keyword collections now?"


Yep, all those collections in the "CUTS" Event have 5 or more versions of each project. Works quite well, and if you've got your stuff in folders in the old Project Library, it converts them to Keyword Collections when u update. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 10:49:27 pm

Thanks, Charlie.

That's more or less logical, helps in the new structure.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 19, 2013 at 10:56:14 pm

[Mathieu Ghekiere] "Thanks, Charlie.

That's more or less logical, helps in the new structure."


My pleasure. There's some more random, hopefully helpful info in the post that pic came from.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Charlie Austin
Re: Projects not scrubbing in the event
on Dec 20, 2013 at 7:35:56 am

[James Ewart] "For the life of me I cannot tell the difference between a Library and an Event"

Remember in the olden days (10.0.x) you'd have mounted drives in the Event Library, and there were Events on each drive? Well, think of Libraries as just taking the place of those drives. Except instead of needing to mount drives to open the Events on them, you just open the Library. And the projects live in the same place. Other than that, Events and Projects are pretty much the same-ish. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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