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A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director

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Tim Wilson
A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 8:18:23 am

Ahoy, both mateys and lubbers,

You know that I try to manage the forums at CreativeCOW.net with a very, very light hand, preferably none at all.

If all I need to do is edit one word in a post, that's all I do.

If I can manage a thread by removing one post, that's all I do.

In extreme cases, I might send an email or two.

In one recent case, though, for the first time since I arrived here in 2006, I have exercised the nuclear option. A specific account and its posts have been vaporized.

I hesitated, because some of his posts (primarily in other forums) were vaguely helpful, but after spending all day working through this problem one post a time, it became clear what I really needed to do.

I don't typically announce having taken an administrative action, but with over 400 posts in the past 90 days alone, I think you'd have noticed his absence pretty quickly.

As harsh as I'm afraid my action may seem, it was done out of respect to the many of you who flagged those posts as inappropriate, voted them down, and contacted me directly about them over the past months. It was also done because, frankly, as much as I value this as a full-contact forum, I don't want his account to be part of our online legacy.

The immediate fallout will be a bunch of messy threads, because Nuclear Boy elicited a number of responses that will be left hanging.

I started to clean up all those threads for the sake of continuity, but enough of the replies to those posts had good things that actually DID further the conversation that I stopped my efforts, and I'm leaving almost all of them intact.

My apologies, dear passenger, if your post was in a thread that was mangled along the way. Please do not take it personally. And, as an editor myself, I'm sorry to have broken the narrative so messily.

Some final notes.

-- I think that much of the juicy goodness will be restored to the forum via subtraction, so to speak, now that that one fella is gone, but I will remind you of the ONE RULE of this forum: no posts about other posters.

As a starting place, please stop saying "AD HOMINEM." An informal survey showed that, with some obvious exceptions, some variation of the phrase "ad hominem attack" was used in the PERFORMANCE of an ad hominem attack more often than not.

AND IF ONE OF YOU SAYS "HE STARTED IT FIRST," I SWEAR I WILL PULL THIS CAR OVER.

Heh heh, sorry, accidentally channeling my dad there.

So if you can, please turn down the heat just a bit. A bit. Just enough to prevent boiling over. Consider when it's time to post more slowly. If you need a day to cool off now and again, please take it. I certainly had to do that myself in this forum's early days. More than once. A LOT.

Most important, though, again, please don't hesitate to talk to me about this, or anything else. As ever, I'm easy to find. Just contact me via the link at the top of the page.


-- What's that you say? You don't understand my reference to Julie, Your Cruise Director or why it's the subject line of this otherwise very serious post? The Love Boat! Dang man, she got the "AND" billing at the end of the opening credits. Peep this clip from ca. 1979, featuring our gal Julie:




Yes, there were drugs involved.


-- Sort of speaking of which, the final of my final notes: the place you'll find me posting most often is in fact the COW's TV & Movie Appreciation forum. A good time is had by all. Please swing by. Mike Cohen just started a great thread on 70s Cinema that I think will be right in the wheelhouse for many of you.

If you'd rather talk about some other aspect of movies or TV shows in that forum, including current stuff, please do. In addition to being some of the world's most sophisticated media producers, you're some of its most sophisticated viewers. I'd love to hear what you think.

Kidding about The Love Boat aside, I want to thank you all for being part of the COW, in many cases, from the beginning...and even back to its predecessor community. I appreciate your energy and insights, and I'm always very, very glad to hear from you directly if you care to write.

Thanks again,

Julie, Your Cruise Director

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW


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Mark Dobson
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 10:37:42 am

Thank's Tim,

Who said overseeing a democratic forum was easy? Things were sliding downhill fast in a way that was uncharacteristic and unpleasant and I applaud you for enforcing the line in the sand.

What seems like fun quickly turns out not to be fun. The fact that this forum thrives on strong disagreements, ironic humour and banter whilst still communicating highly technical information is what keeps me signing in.

So thanks for stepping in and in the words of Bruce Cockburn 'Open up the window let the bad air out'


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Santiago Martí
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 2:17:32 pm
Last Edited By Santiago Martí on Dec 5, 2013 at 2:17:57 pm

Tim, thank you for the morning laugh.

Santiago Martí
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar
Red One M-X, Red Epic X waiting for Dragon update, Red Pro Primes, Adobe CC, Assimilate Scratch


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David Eaks
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 2:41:27 pm

Tim, your actions were just as respectable as they were necessary. I can't help but feel some level of relief, there was an absurd amount of frustrating-to-read and nonconstructive posts. The pastures are better for their annihilation.

I quite enjoy reading the vast majority of banter in a variety of the forums here, not to mention all the selfless, trouble shooting assistance, tips, tools and advice freely given by all the regulars here. Since discovering CreativeCOW a few years ago, I've always felt it to be of some higher caliber (for lack of a better description) in its level of professionalism and collaborative atmosphere. The only way I figure that "feeling" could come about in relation to a Disscussion Forum, is through the quality of the discussions themselves. Which is a direct result of every post by each member of the community. Hey, nothing is perfect, people will get into it, but it's feelin pretty good around here right now.

Thank you for your efforts.

Once I realized what this thread was about, this scene immediately came to mind-

Tim "The White"






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Rich Rubasch
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 2:59:34 pm

Cool!

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Herb Sevush
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 3:12:37 pm
Last Edited By Herb Sevush on Dec 5, 2013 at 11:04:34 pm

Tim -

I was raised in a household where dinner-time debate was the family entertainment - we had it, along with ice cream, after every meal. It was dirty, it was devious and it was always to the death. This upbringing has had occasional unpleasant consequences for those around me for many years and I would like to apologize to the forum, knowing that I contributed more than my share to the recent unpleasantness.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Chris Harlan
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 6:57:45 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I would like to apologize to the forum, knowing that I contributed more than my share to the recent unpleasantness.
"


Nope. Nice of you to say, but nope.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 3:54:43 pm

Thanks, Tim. They're not paying your enough (they're not paying you at all!). Happy Holidays.

Doug D


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 4:43:08 pm

Thank you, Tim - you're in a tough position there, and the scarcity of events such as this reminds us of just how hard you struggle to remain hands-off. I can think of only two of these in the last few years (bearing in mind that I only frequent a dozen of the many forums). I generally learn more here from the people I initially disagree with than vice-versa, and it's the openness to the occasional call down or cat fight that keeps the COW lively.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Jason Porthouse
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 8:18:21 pm

TIm, you've done great. Difficult though it may haver been, the nature of the banter here was turning from spirited to mean-spirited, and once the rot sets in it's difficult to repair. So kudos to you for making the tough decision.

Onwards!

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.



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Lance Bachelder
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 5:22:47 pm

There's been a few morn's I've awoke, clicked in and wondered if I was gonna be nuked myself, yet somehow I'm still here lol and looking forward to more heated debates with true peers :)

Thanks Tim.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Steve Connor
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 5:28:30 pm

I've been away filming most of the week so I must have missed the "final straw" that has provoked Tim's actions, but I have to say I was incredibly impressed with the way that everyone on here had been reacting to the poster in question.

Well done Tim for your actions, especially as it must have been a difficult decision. Fortunately not one you have to make very often!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Gary Huff
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 5:35:01 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "There's been a few morn's I've awoke, clicked in and wondered if I was gonna be nuked myself, yet somehow I'm still here lol and looking forward to more heated debates with true peers :)"

Naw, you've been staying away from the Merlot recently, so you're safe. ;-)


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Clint Wardlow
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 9:59:15 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "There's been a few morn's I've awoke, clicked in and wondered if I was gonna be nuked myself, yet somehow I'm still here lol and looking forward to more heated debates with true peers :)

Thanks Tim."


I don't think a few questionable posts from time to time will earn you a nuke. In fact, the occasional such post adds a little spice.

It is just when someone hijacks almost every thread, every day until it devolves into childish bicker-fest that the nuke button needs to be pushed.


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Chris Harlan
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 7, 2013 at 9:55:45 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "There's been a few morn's I've awoke, clicked in and wondered if I was gonna be nuked myself, yet somehow I'm still here lol and looking forward to more heated debates with true peers :)

Thanks Tim.
"


We've had our taste of merlot, and we've had our taste of brandy; the consensus is that the merlot decanted just fine, but that, sadly, the brandy had been uncorked for a bit too long.


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Chris Harlan
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 6:56:27 pm

Well, 3 Cheers for Mr. Man!


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nick ring
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 7:12:16 pm

It's a tough decision, but I think a right one. I have seen very good discussion groups (online and in meatspace) that have been destroyed by the persistent negative behavior of just one person, including a listserv that I managed and waited too long on taking proper action. I'm an advocate for free and open speech, but there's a point at which one person's speech completely tramples on the ability for others to speak. It was clear to me that this point was being reached here.

I appreciate this forum and the tough tasks of moderators like Tim. Thanks for acting on it and in your inimitable and humorous manner.

Back to my 10.1 anticipation.

-nick


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David Mathis
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 7:30:52 pm

Tim:

I hope I am in your good graces and that I have never stepped out of line. Please remind me if I have so I can avoid further behavior. I do have Aspergers syndrome and not good with social skills at times. This is not to be used an excuse only as an explanation. With that said, it is my goal to be civil toward others and should I disagree with them I respectfully do so, focusing on the topic not the person.

Thank you for addressing the issue with a sense of humor and standing firm in your position. Look forward to your words of wisdom.

Sincerely,

David Mathis


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Mitch Ives
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 8:37:54 pm

Another example of Tim's thoughtful and delicate approach to this forum. Sorry you had to be the Grown Up here Tim...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Martin Curtis
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 5, 2013 at 9:46:41 pm

Wow. Amazing. Did you see the pants Julie was wearing?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 6, 2013 at 5:14:42 pm

[Martin Curtis] "Wow. Amazing. Did you see the pants Julie was wearing?"

Really we should be asking, who DIDN'T see those pants?


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TImothy Auld
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 6, 2013 at 12:47:19 am
Last Edited By TImothy Auld on Dec 6, 2013 at 12:47:59 am

Tim,

How dare you stifle the debate here? Your despicable even handedness and shameful impartiality will be long remembered in these hallowed threads. I hope you're proud of yourself.

Tim


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James Culbertson
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 6, 2013 at 2:10:21 am

Thank goodness we can finally get back to an uninterrupted echo chamber of bitterness.


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Chris Harlan
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 6, 2013 at 3:10:42 am

[James Culbertson] "an uninterrupted echo chamber of bitterness."

Such great phrase, is it not?!


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Tim Wilson
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 6, 2013 at 5:18:06 am

First, thank you all. I appreciate your kind words and understanding.

Sorry to be away for the day. I didn't plan it that way...although if I'd thought about it I might have. :-)

And hey, I've been using emoticons since the second I knew such a thing existed, but now I worry that someone might see it as not very well-veiled hostility. LOL

Anyway...


[Chris Harlan] "[James Culbertson] "an uninterrupted echo chamber of bitterness."

Such great phrase, is it not?!"


It really is classic, but c'mon man, this place is wall to wall interruptions. LOL

I felt bad about that thread though, because I like and respect Evan....but it's a classic example of a thread with difficult but legit issues (less for me about the unimpeachably ethical Evan than the issue of implied endorsement in general), derailed by one guy. The thread feels a lot different with him not on it. Especially once I get around to removing the now-orphaned posts replying to him. :-)


[Clint Wardlow] "I don't think a few questionable posts from time to time will earn you a nuke. In fact, the occasional such post adds a little spice.

It is just when someone hijacks almost every thread, every day until it devolves into childish bicker-fest that the nuke button needs to be pushed."


Exactly.

I regularly refer to this a full-contact forum, and I like it like that. It's why I tend to let things run hotter than some people might like. I really only step in when it gets personal, and in this one case, where it felt wholly troll-y.

("Wholly troll-y" is almost as good as "echo chamber of bitterness," right?)

Everybody has a bad inning now and again, and we're all dealing with all kinds of nonsense in life offline. (Wait, what? What is this "life offline" you speak of?) The goal is to make room for each other's bad days, and leave time for ice cream after arguments to the death.

(Well said, Herb.)


[Martin Curtis] "Wow. Amazing. Did you see the pants Julie was wearing?"

Those pictures were worth a lot more than a thousand words.


[Chris Harlan] "Well, 3 Cheers for Mr. Man!"

"Mr. Man" are definitely two of the words I was thinking of, and definitely the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me here that wasn't also complimenting my hair. LOL

Thanks again, everyone. We now return you to your uninterrupted interruptions and ice cream.


Tim


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Tom Sefton
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 6, 2013 at 12:17:48 pm

Yes, well done Tim. Every thread was turning into a childish bitch fest!!!!!! and I was tired of digging my dictionary out to try and understand what a hominem was.

I still assume a straw man is some sort of reference to a farmer?


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 6, 2013 at 1:08:28 pm

no - the straw man is the pagan assassin who took down nicholas cage. you can see him here pouring in the bees.







http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Tom Sefton
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 6, 2013 at 2:49:12 pm







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Clint Wardlow
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 6, 2013 at 3:36:07 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "no - the straw man is the pagan assassin who took down nicholas cage. you can see him here pouring in the bees."

I thought it was Edward Woodward that got taken down by that pesky straw man. Oh wait, different decade...different straw man (and a naked Britt Ekland doing a sexy dance).


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 6, 2013 at 5:36:13 pm

Today I Learned, bees can be poured.

At least, in the land of Movie Magic.

Pour bees.


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Glenn Grant
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 6, 2013 at 3:35:25 pm

[Tim Wilson] "("Wholly troll-y" is almost as good as "echo chamber of bitterness," right?)"

Isn't that from a Neil Diamond song?


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Tim Wilson
Re: A word from Julie, Your Cruise Director
on Dec 20, 2013 at 5:54:43 pm

So sorry I missed your note, Glenn.

[Glenn Grant] "[Tim Wilson] "("Wholly troll-y" is almost as good as "echo chamber of bitterness," right?)"

Isn't that from a Neil Diamond song?"



I was actually thinking more David Bowie than Neil Diamond. Specifically, the 1971 non-album track, recorded when early attempts at making his 1970 (US)/1971 (UK) album The Man Who Sold The World take off fell flat. (It's one of my favorite Bowie albums, and deserves your attention.)

The b-side was Black Country Rock, the nifty opening track of TMWSTW, which really should have been a hit. This single went nowhere.





He later recorded a more uptempo version of Holy Holy for The Return of Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars, but didn't use it right away. Instead, this new version was used as the b-side to the Diamond Dogs single. That one obviously did just fine.










Even though the former should have been used, a mislabeled version of the latter wound up as a bonus track on one of the MWSTW reissues. That version has never since the light of day, even the new one is now out of print. You can find 'em on YouTube and...elsewhere...but I leave that to you.


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