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Bill Davis
Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 21, 2013 at 11:31:08 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Nov 21, 2013 at 11:32:00 pm

Interesting read.

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.it/2013/10/the-graying-of-traditional-phot...

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 3:37:28 pm

[Bill Davis] "Interesting read."

Funny, but I don't notice this next generation paying to watch movies shot on iPhones. The democratization of media is a wonderful development, but as long as it costs a million dollars a week to hire Brad Pitt, there will still be a place for high end tools. The author, and you too Bill, fail to distinguish between amateur home movies and professional media. 8mm film was good enough for Zapruder, and iPhones are fine for uploading gas attacks in Syria to youtube, but if your shooting a car spot that costs 100K to make, I expect to find a real camera on the set.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Gary Huff
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 4:50:05 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Funny, but I don't notice this next generation paying to watch movies shot on iPhones."

They aren't, and that was one of the biggest things that struck me in the article. First was his willingness to bet the kind of individual who buys professional cameras...which clearly stems from his observation about people who go to camera conventions.

Those are two very different segments of the population.

Second, he's trying to argue from the perspective of a generation he is not a part of. That is doomed to fail.

Third, as you said Herb, the next generation isn't buying anything. They are content to entertain themselves for free with YouTube media, but they aren't spending money on it. So great, by a cheap camera so you can shoot terrible stuff that you give away for free. That's a terrific business model! Just take a look at what people are paying good money for.

Fourth, he seems to lump in m4/3 with "cheap". I don't think that's fair as m4/3 isn't some kind of P&S format only. My GH3 does an excellent job.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 5:15:17 pm

No, they don't buy anything out of necessity. They don't have any money.

Tim


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Gary Huff
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 5:39:53 pm

Then who is buying those tickets to movies like Star Trek: Into Darkness, Man of Steel, and Iron Man 3?

Who is buying those Game of Thrones DVDs and Blu-rays?


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Steve Connor
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 5:54:08 pm

[Gary Huff] "Then who is buying those tickets to movies like Star Trek: Into Darkness, Man of Steel, and Iron Man 3?

Who is buying those Game of Thrones DVDs and Blu-rays?
"


Mostly me!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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TImothy Auld
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 6:04:06 pm

Not sure. But certainly not my son or his friends. They find ways to amuse themselves for free. Perhaps they are anomaly. I have no statistics to back it up but from the people I know (teens to dead) the video game market is much older than most think. Who is really paying for a 20 year old's video games?

Tim


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TImothy Auld
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 6:15:44 pm

Jeez, I am dumb. Your reference was to dvds and blu-rays, not video games. But my answer would be the same. My son and his friends are paying off student loans. Occasionally they buy a song on itunes.

Tim


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Clint Wardlow
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 6:27:39 pm
Last Edited By Clint Wardlow on Nov 22, 2013 at 6:30:37 pm

[Gary Huff] "Second, he's trying to argue from the perspective of a generation he is not a part of. That is doomed to fail."

I also think the change to smaller, lighter, and such like is more a reflection of the home movie, home photo ethos. Instead of using polaroids and instamatics to record family and friends, the youngsters are using iphones and ipads. Instead of photo albums or 8mm movie projectors to be whipped out when friends arrive, it is uploaded to social media.

The need for high-end will always be around.

Although I do find it interesting that with this move to newer and newer, that even among the young, there is a looking back to the look and feel of the old. How else do you explain the popularity of the toy camera look of hipstamatic or instagram. Sometimes it almost seems like every third photo uploaded to facebook is some kind of selfie made to look like a crappy old polaroid print?


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Richard Herd
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 11:59:45 pm

[Clint Wardlow] "crappy old"

Can you make my film look more digital? The aesthetics of the contemporary era are trippy.


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Bill Davis
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 8:28:48 pm

[Herb Sevush] "The author, and you too Bill, fail to distinguish between amateur home movies and professional media."

Look, I didn't offer ANY type of opinion about this - I just posted it because I though it was an interesting look at a related but very different industry that's undergoing a similar change from our own.

When he described the photo shows - it mirrored my experiences at NAB and other trade shows very much. They ARE "greyer" than they used to be when I started going 20 years ago.

I just saw the article, and felt the perspective of a teaching professional with long experience in one field - who's seeing trends that he's grappling to understand - might be interesting to some here.

I didn't make any argument on whether he's correct, or off base, or anything else. I just posted it because I found it interesting.

Simple as that.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 8:30:44 pm

[Bill Davis] "I didn't make any argument on whether he's correct, or off base, or anything else. I just posted it because I found it interesting. "

You are quite right. My apologies for my assumptions.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Gary Huff
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 22, 2013 at 8:48:29 pm

But it is in line with a lot of what you have posted here previously.


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Bill Davis
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 23, 2013 at 5:30:28 am

[Gary Huff] "But it is in line with a lot of what you have posted here previously."

Well of course. I'm interested in the changes in all the creative arts and enjoy discussing that.

But I purposely did NOT offer any opinion on this particular story. I just let the authors opinions stand on their own.

The articale's primary thesis - that older practitioners working in the creative fields have a vastly different perspective than the young people coming into it today is pretty hard to argue with.

So too the "greying" of the professional class of our industry. When I thought about that specific point - and remembered what I saw first hand on the NAB floor - I realized what he was describing - is something I've also seen first hand.

It's actually kind of funny. At NAB this past year, I met a young lady in one of the seminars I reported on during the first day who worked for a digital agency in NYC. We kinda hit it off and spent a significant part of the show hanging out together. To the extent I could, i tried to show her the ropes, describing how the show operates, helping her get into some of the evening events, introducing her to some of my long time industry contacts, and lunching with her most days. Basically, trying to give a hand to the new generation coming along - what used to be an industry time honored tradition.

What sticks in my mind, is walking with her past booth after booth of the large industry stalwarts that have been the dominant forces of the show for decades, and watching as she had hardly even a passing interest in what any of them were offering. I don't want to mention names, but most of us have spent thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars with these big companies over our careers - and she walked by ALL of them with a shrug - in search of companies relevant to how she worked - which were few and far between.

So all I'm arguing is that it's dangerous to believe that the way we see things is always the best way to see them.

It's interesting to see that discussed. That's all.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 23, 2013 at 2:07:00 am

But isn't it true that on all levels cameras are becomming more more intuitive to use, and are also easier to handle. instead of changing a film role and watching out that no light ruins the footage you can simply stick a memory card in your cam. Even on the well trained professional level it is more relaxing, isn't it?

I remember the time back at UT Austin in 1996 when we had to learn with Bolex 16mm cameras. Of course it was fun handling the filmroles, and editing on a Steenbeck was a trip, but when you spend 3000$ of roles and developing the footage and get a call from the lab telling you that your negative got scratched and that you have a thick black line on all your footage because that Bolex we were handed wasn't repaired correctly, then you really hope that someone invents a cam that makes it easier.

I see young professionals still interested in making high end products and wanting to do things manually, I don't think that will ever change. But now its possible to get very good results with a very small budget, and as a pro, if I know how to use that iPhone correctly it becomes another tool in my arsenal I can use for a certain look, or another perspective.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Patrick Murphy
Re: Not like the below thread is just germaine to video...
on Nov 24, 2013 at 6:08:59 pm

Interesting post Bill. He does bring up some good points.

Granted we live in a time where there's been significant, even revolutionary developments in photography and motion pictures. There has been a tremendous broadening of the availability of powerful image making tools. With new tools come new approaches, techniques, and interpretations of how images are made and used in our society. Hurrah.

But there's a downside too I think. If you look at some of the traditional visual media forms, such as drawing, painting, sculpture you can see how a stable palette of tools allowed approaches to become richer and deeper as one generation after another built upon the successes and innovations of those who preceded them. Young artists and craftspersons had a rich source existing work and values to use as a base to accept, modify, rebel against. It brought young and old into a continuing dialog.

Technological change tends to sever these connections and make the hardware a far more significant variable. Maybe the GoPro is a good example of what I'm driving at. That and many other similar tools open new doors but they also tend to isolate adopters from a larger context and tradition of image making. Their primary context is a contemporary one. Yes there are new opportunities for image making but the vast majority of it is derivative and fairly shallow. Moreover because everyone knows that the GoPro (or whatever) will be obsolete in a few years, the impulse to really delve into it's possibilities is muted.

Changes in our technologies aren't bad, and they will keep happening, maybe at an even faster pace, for the foreseeable future. But I think there's definitely the argument to be made it's a double edge sword.



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