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Chris Fenwick has a new project

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Craig Seeman
Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 2:20:56 pm

Interesting blog on the move to FCPX
Moving to PPro then moving to FCPX.

Fenwick has a new project
http://chrisfenwick.com/home/2013/11/18/fenwick-has-a-new-project.html


"In the subsequent months I recommended to my office that we move all of our projects to Final Cut Pro X. I would be lying if I told you that the move was simple. However, the difficulties were not in what the application could and could not do, but instead the major difficulties were caused by individuals who did not want to let go of the past."



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Gary Huff
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 2:42:00 pm

I don't understand this:

[EDIT: To be fair, Adobe has made great stride in the area of Smart Renders in subsequent versions of Premier but it was a little to little, to late for me. I had already moved on.]

I am on both. I have used FCPX a fair amount, and now I'm working heavily in Premiere CC. It doesn't have to be an either/or. I pick a) whatever is best suited to the project and b) whatever I need to be compatible with for project hand-offs.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 2:52:02 pm

[Gary Huff] "It doesn't have to be an either/or. I pick a) whatever is best suited to the project and b) whatever I need to be compatible with for project hand-offs."

True. The days of either/or are long gone with the price of NLEs as they are. No more agonizing over a big financial commitment and having to live with an otherwise well liked NLE's shortcomings. Now one can examine a project and its anticipated workflow and pick the NLE best suited to it. More common, I think, will be people/facilities having a primary and secondary NLE coming into play as needed. I suspect when FCPX 10.1 gets past the collaborative hurdles that will be come a lot easier.



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Mark Raudonis
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 3:46:43 pm

[Craig Seeman] " I think, will be people/facilities having a primary and secondary NLE coming into play as needed. "

Don't think so!

Imagine the chaos of managing a team of hundreds of editors flipping back and forth between their "NLE of Choice" depending on their mood, perception of tool set and phase of the moon. It would be a nightmare. The larger the team, the more important it is to commit to a common platform.

Add into the mix the issues of archiving and "reactivating" old projects and it's a total cluster F*&K!

Perhaps in a small shop the notion of "right tool for the job" may prevail, but the larger the team, the more important it is to stick to one platform or the other.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 4:03:17 pm
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Nov 21, 2013 at 4:04:54 pm

[Mark Raudonis] "Imagine the chaos of managing a team of hundreds of editors flipping back and forth between their "NLE of Choice" depending on their mood"

Not "NLE of Choice," Primary and secondary NLEs . Facilities will use one but will use another on specific project, not two NLEs on a single project. From what I hear, that's what's happening with FCPX at the moment. It may not be facility worthy yet but it's "creep" is due, in part, to editors who already have a handle on it seeing it as the tool to use on specific small (non shared) jobs. From everything I've read 10.1 will be a major step froward in its XML as well. We've even seen here in this forum that FCPX is working its way into use on single jobs in facilities where another NLE is the Primary.



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Dan Stewart
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 4:27:16 pm

I wonder if, had Avid/Adobe arbitrarily EOL'ed MC/Premiere and released a successor that after two years was still hopelessly inept at taking over the workload, their users would have cheerfully described the cataclysm as a brave future in which it is normal to have to run two NLEs depending on which bit you currently need to work..?

I'm pretty sure Avid at least would already be a distant memory even if they started making billions in shiny toys and played the Beatles at the launch.



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Charlie Austin
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 7:47:18 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Facilities will use one but will use another on specific project, not two NLEs on a single project. From what I hear, that's what's happening with FCPX at the moment."

That's sort of where I'm at these days. In my little niche, X still suffers from the "nobody uses it" stigma. Which is odd, especially because this has been told to me by people sitting in my room as I am cutting an actual spot, for an actual "hollywood" movie, in FCPX. Anyway...

It's trivially easy now to move things back and forth between X, 7, and PrCC now. I'm bouncing around in all 3 daily lately. (MC is the odd man out here unfortunately). I agree that in a large organization it totally makes sense to have a main axe, so to speak. And X really has been a PITA when it comes to sharing "projects" (used in the broad sense meaning sequences and events) which has made it difficult for facilities to commit to it. That's likely to change, at which point it's really just about willingness to learn a new tool.

There are still some little hoops to jump through in an offline/online workflow, Nothing major though and honestly, a lot of finishing facilities here still haven't really accepted FCP 7, so it's nothing new. ;-)

I really wish we could get some sound deadener in the echo chamber though, and I imagine the next version of X will help with that.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Herb Sevush
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 5:03:51 pm

[Mark Raudonis] "Imagine the chaos of managing a team of hundreds of editors flipping back and forth between their "NLE of Choice" depending on their mood, perception of tool set and phase of the moon. It would be a nightmare. The larger the team, the more important it is to commit to a common platform."

This is true for me and I only have a team of 3-5 editors, but years of archived projects, which is why the choice of my next editing plaform looms so large. I am not polygamous when it comes to editing.

Given that all the major NLE's can handle, with more or less grace, anything thrown at them I cannot imagine what gains you'd make in choosing a specific NLE that would not be offset by the confusion and loss of speed inherent in using multiple programs. It's one thing for a freelancer to master multiple platforms so as to increase his job possibilities, but for a producer I don't see the logic.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 5:28:22 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Given that all the major NLE's can handle, with more or less grace, anything thrown at them I cannot imagine what gains you'd make in choosing a specific NLE that would not be offset by the confusion and loss of speed inherent in using multiple programs."

Again, not any NLE for any job. NLE for specific project types.

I was engineer at MLB in the early days of FCP legacy. It was an Avid house of course. After much hunting and my recommendation they went with FCP for Umpire Training. That had nothing to do with and never intermingles with This Week In Baseball or Baseball Max. Avid house used FCP for a specific and ongoing project which had very different demands than Avid.

Ongoing unrelated projects may be better suited to one NLE over another. There's zero confusion and zero speed lose. They're not related.



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Shane Ross
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 5:27:45 pm

[Mark Raudonis] "Imagine the chaos of managing a team of hundreds of editors flipping back and forth between their "NLE of Choice" depending on their mood, perception of tool set and phase of the moon. It would be a nightmare. The larger the team, the more important it is to commit to a common platform."

Precisely! Even when it was between Avid and FCP Legacy, larger production companies choose one or the other, rarely both. The only places I've seen both in play were post houses that served a variety of clients, who used one or the other. But companies that have tons of editors and shows that need to get to air...they were either FCP or Avid.

In the terms of the larger companies, I don't see this changing. It'll be an 'all in" type situation.

Although the BBC seems to be wishy washy. People come in and say "BBC BOUGHT 1000 COPIES OF ADOBE CC!" and assume that they are shifting to Adobe. Then someone else posts an article about the BBC buying FCX...and another saying they are going back to Avid. They can't seem to make up their minds! :)

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Andy Field
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 6:01:02 pm

in terms of big houses switching...this is a huge issue....i'm working with a major government agency evaluating every NLE out there now (AVID, FCP X, Premiere Pro CC) They must interface with an old server that doesn't easily connect to two of the three NLE's --

They don't have the training time or money to push a square peg into a round hole....nor the resources to let everyone chose their own flavor...that's why they are doing extensive, real world testing with all the NLE's to see which creates the least pain and most gain in the transition.

That is why you "hear" about various organizations getting x copies of FCP X or Y copies of Premiere Pro -- they have to license and evaluate the products with real world deadlines for a period of time to make sure they suffer zero downtime using them to get on the air.

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Andy Field
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 7:53:25 pm

big bureaucracy wheels turn very slowly -

this is a many month evaluation over many different users.

Their goal isn't to just pick an NLE and be done with it - there are many moving parts in legacy systems - servers - many different programs and clients.....

this is why you don't see IT departments jumping at the latest incarnation of Windows or MS Word --

It's also why those who embrace FCP X can't understand the angst many organizations had discovering the next version of FCP was completely different than what their vast work forces were used to. They simply didn't have the time and money for the massive retraining -- or to wait the (what has it been now, two years?) for the program to do everything it did before in the previous version.

It's why Mark Raudonis's operation had to quickly find a new solution.

Big organizations are like aircraft carriers -- once everything's working with minimum fuss - no one wants to yank the steering wheel and make a 180 turn...with anything.

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Charlie Austin
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 8:06:50 pm

[Andy Field] "Big organizations are like aircraft carriers -- once everything's working with minimum fuss - no one wants to yank the steering wheel and make a 180 turn...with anything."

Absolutely true, and with good reason. Some of it's the retraining hurdle, though there are some shops here that have moved to MC from FCP which - for editors who have only known FCP (a lot these days) - is just as steep a learning curve, steeper maybe, as moving to X would have been.

I think, for people who use 7, the biggie is being able to share things as easily as they can now. Once that is no longer an issue, I think X will become more appealing in places where that's important.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Keith Koby
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 10:01:11 pm

[Shane Ross] "Precisely! Even when it was between Avid and FCP Legacy, larger production companies choose one or the other, rarely both. The only places I've seen both in play were post houses that served a variety of clients, who used one or the other. But companies that have tons of editors and shows that need to get to air...they were either FCP or Avid."

Well, not exactly... One of our friends that posts here has posted about using Avid for one particular type of job and fcp legacy for others. And he has spoken about the hardships encountered along the way to keep either platform going. Also, I know first hand from my engineering friends at one of the large 3 letter premium networks that they had for years maintained fcp legacy for producers and avid for their editors.

To me both are clear illustrations of large organizations doing serious edit work using multiple platforms. Some work collaborative even. The difference being that their is a clear dividing point on who uses which platform.

We still support FCP7 for some workflows and X for others. At this point we are also considering Adobes for another isolated workflow with it's own set of editors. Projects aren't necessarily shared, but materials are and pieces are certainly fed from one area into another.

Keith Koby
Sr. Director Post-Production Engineering
iNDEMAND
Howard TV!/Movies On Demand/iNDEMAND Pay-Per-View/iNDEMAND 3D


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 21, 2013 at 6:54:42 pm

Not so interesting to me. The fact that he was not using Premiere Pro CC is a huge problem for me, while I would happily use FCPX over Premiere Pro 6 or earlier, I would not give CC for X. CC is a whole new beast, far from perfect, but a great NLE.

That said, I have high hopes for the next rev of FCPX, hopefully I'm not deluded and Apple actually finally gets it right and fixes all the missing things needed for my day to day editing. Too many to list sorry...

As far as Editors using a specific NLE for a specific task, I've been switching back and forth, many times on the same show, between Sony Vegas and Final Cut Pro since 2000 and still go to Vegas for all my sound design and final mix as I still prefer its speed to Pro Tools. But I've never met a facility manager who would allow the use of whatever NLE an Editor wanted to use.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 22, 2013 at 9:55:47 pm

[Craig Seeman] "by individuals who did not want to let go of the past.""

honestly - people really have to stop trying to characterise it as the future - Cioni could lay off it for instance - FCPX is a powerful option. calling every other editing system the past just doesn't pass the sniff test. Premiere CC kicks its ass across the room in a number of areas, and it kicks premieres in a number of areas too. Neither of them can touch the industrial strength stability of Avid. Obviously avid is the worst though.

Avid really is just the worst. the absolute worst. God how do I hate thee avid.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 22, 2013 at 10:39:40 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "calling every other editing system the past just doesn't pass the sniff test. Premiere CC kicks its ass across the room in a number of areas, and it kicks premieres in a number of areas too. Neither of them can touch the industrial strength stability of Avid."

Well, this is weird. I agree. :-)

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Obviously avid is the worst though."

Now you've done it. lol

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Craig Seeman
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 22, 2013 at 11:03:23 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Avid really is just the worst. the absolute worst. God how do I hate thee avid."

Wow I agree with Aindreas too. Hell froze over and I'm putting on my skates.
Why does NASDAQ keep extending its sorry life.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 23, 2013 at 10:23:34 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Avid really is just the worst. the absolute worst. God how do I hate thee avid."

Yes, but Avid always speaks well of you.


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Steve Connor
Re: Chris Fenwick has a new project
on Nov 23, 2013 at 3:17:58 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I mean OK, that's not his real name"

Seriously?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Chris Fenwick
Mind if I Chime In Here?
on Nov 29, 2013 at 1:21:24 am

Hi... I haven't posted here on the Cow in quite some time, maybe a few years, as a matter of fact, getting my password working again was a bit of an ordeal. As you may have heard me say on the show, if you've listened to it, I'm not to get at "internetting".

The purpose of FCPX Grill is not to start fights or tell the world that they are dopes if they choose to use another NLE, although, some listeners have expressed that THAT sentiment is implied on the shows, I sincerely don't mean it to be.

I've been doing this stuff for a long time. 30 years ago was the first time I (tried) to make money producing a video, I ended up having to drop out of school (the first time) in order to go learn more about what I REALLY wanted to do. The common theme throughout my career has been this... "You always have to take time to learn."

Learning can be a drag... there is so much pressure and desire to move forward in this business that the time it takes to sit back, read a book, go to a lecture, crack open a manual or just plain bang your head on the screen is daunting, and it feels counter productive... COUNTER productive. At times I feel like i'm going backwards.

A great analogy is creating a Photoshop action. I'm pretty good in Photoshop, well, I'm good enough to do what I HAVE to do, I can do the things I need to do very fast. Sometimes, when you have to process a big load of images I look over at that damn Actions menu and I think, "Well... I COULD slow down for a bit, write an action that'll do all these images FOR me and then be done with it. But then I think... "Hey... I'm a pro. I know my keyboard shortcuts, I'll be done with this in NO TIME." Stopping and writing the action doesn't FEEL as productive. It doesn't FEEL like i'm moving forward... the images aren't changing in front of me and I don't get the satisfaction of being a bad-a$$ while I hit all these keys so fast. But I'm being fooled.

If I were to slow down and make the action... I'd be done in LESS time EVEN THOUGH it feels like I'm not moving forward for a time there.

I remember the pain of learning Powerpoint when I was REALLY good with a Chyron, a production switcher and an ADDA stillstore. (Dating myself?). I remember the painful hours of wrestling with Premiere 3.0 and logging onto the AOL message boards to ask Randy Ubilos first hand questions about why I couldn't capture video if the capture window wasn't on my PRIMARY screen. I remember the time struggling with my first Avid in 1997 and my Media100 in 1998 (cuz I hated the Avid) and my reluctance to learn Final Cut Pro 1.0 because, "hey... I'm a pro!! I have a $30,000 edit system, I don't need a $1,000 TOY application from Apple, it can't even do a real time dissolve like my Media100 can.

But I learned it. I got on Ken Stone dot Net and I went thru the HASSLE of learning all new preference panes and all new keyboard layouts and a WHOLE NEW metaphor... (why the hell isn't there an A and a B track... Media100 had them).

Everything changes.

if you dig thru my blog at chrisfenwick.com you'll find plenty of posts with me truly angry at Apple for dropping the ball with FCPX. I was REALLY mad. I played with Premiere for a few months about a year before FCPX was released, I made a bunch of tutorials and then it REALLY bagged me a on a few jobs... (and YES, I DO understand that CC is better. And I'm SO glad that all those people now have my credit card number, but thats another problem.)

When I sat down with FCPX with a clear head I realized that in much the same way that I made a change between editing tape and editing on a computer, or moving from the A/B metaphor of Media100 and moving to the single track of Final Cut Pro. It wasn't that the tool couldn't do what I needed, it did it, it was just a little different.

I know what you're thinking and what you want to say, I KNOW that you are sitting there trying not to YELL at your computer screen because I went thru ALL those feelings to. Its ok... take a deep breath, everything will be alright.

I believe we are due for this change. But what I "believe" really doesn't matter.

I fully realize that there are people, and companies, and organizations and networks that have needs that are WILDLY different then MY needs. Our company is very small compared to many. But then its a lot bigger then others. What I DO know, is that this tool allows us to work faster.

My purpose for making FCPX Grill is to talk to people that are using this tool and to find out what they hated about it, what they love about it and what changed their mind. I get no money for doing it, although if someone wants to sponsor the show lemme know. I just want to talk to people and I figured if I wanted to HAVE these conversations that others might want to LISTEN IN.

So there you have it. My 2 cents. I gotta say, you guys like to write a lot. Talking is easier. You may want to start your own podcast, its easier then all this typing... but if you do, let me give you a pointer, turn on the "Category Podcasting" feature in Wordpress, it'll save you tons of troubles down the road...

Later...


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