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The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?

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Bill Davis
The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 14, 2013 at 9:41:53 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Nov 14, 2013 at 9:45:46 pm

Was referred earlier today to a very interesting "X archeology" piece that Alex4D has up - that dug deeply into the code in the latest Rev of iMovie looking for hints about what the new FCP-X might feature. Among the speculation was something that I've been thinking about all morning. I've long wondered why X has always had the "import iMovie" projects - a thing that confused me because I know virtually no X editors who also use iMovie regularly - and particularly in light of the whole iMovie Pro" language spasm that blew up when X was released.

Anyway, he speculates that what's actually happening might be an odd form of some type of "code synchronicity" (my term) that would allow editors in group situations to use the free (or very cheap) iMovie as a collaborative front end for FCP-X prep work.

That would be very interesting in a lot of situations. I can easily see in a news gathering organization, how having reporters start stories on a laptop (or even an iPad!) would be useful - particularly if that same project code could then be seamlessly imported into X for professional refinement. And if it could be a two way deal, It could also mean that those of us in edit seats full time might be able to "progress" our edits on our iPads or phones or whatever provided a solid form of "round tripping" was allowed.

Is this part of why X maintained "open iMovie project" as an X option? Have they had a unified cross-software vision of editing since the earliest stages of FCP-X development?

Worth speculating about.

Maybe from the start, Apple didn't so much see FCP-X as "iMovie Pro" - but rather has from a VERY early stage - seen iMovie as "FCP-X lite" - and always planned to enable users who could benefit from having such a connection.

Be very interesting if there was suddenly a very low cost (or even free) entry to X editing via iMovie in the future.

I could see a lot of power in rolling that out for large organizations - in education - and even for those of us who might want to "work on" our desktop projects - without necessarily needing to connect to the full resources of our edit suites all the time in order to do so.

Interesting to think about, anyway.

We'll know in about than a month, I suppose.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Steve Connor
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 14, 2013 at 9:45:58 pm

It would be great if iMovie on the iPad or iPhone could call home to your edit suite and let you tweak timelines and send out encoded files.

Feature request on the way!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Bill Davis
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 14, 2013 at 10:04:36 pm

[Steve Connor] "let you tweak timelines and send out encoded files.

Feature request on the way!
"



Alex mentioned how Aperture had still image export links to sites like SmugMug - if Apple could plumb auto-updates to commercial video hosting services and allow them to be not just managed but revised remotely from X running on an iDevice - that would be incredibly useful.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 5:49:10 am

Randy Ubillos finally gets the First Cut app he tried making 5 years ago. ;)




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Simon Ubsdell
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 1:50:40 pm

[Bill Davis] "the whole iMovie Pro" language spasm that blew up when X was released"

By this I take it you are referring to the wholly correct deduction that all the ground-breaking design concepts in FCP X, which make it different from every other NLE out there, were lifted wholesale from the pre-existing iMovie design (and of course rewritten for the new app).

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Bret Williams
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 2:04:54 pm

I still remember Randy demonstrating FCPX and how the waveforms adjusted on the fly and saying "it took us a long time to get that right." He was of course describing iMovie, which had functioned that way for over 2 years at that point.


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Bill Davis
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 4:20:47 pm

Why does this discussion remind me of seeing to the Claude Monet Exhibit in San Diego years ago - and being fascinated by the artists early career political sketches. What was fascinating was watching his abilities and ideas evolve from good to great to sublime. IIRC, along the way he sold his early work (the political cartoons) to newspapers because that was a practical market.



And of course, as he evolved and helped revolutionize fine art, it was easy to say that if he hadn't been able to work out ideas and develop skills on simpler projects, his later work wouldn't have had the deeply solid technical foundations that it did.



As far as I'm concerned, if Mr. Ubillos used iMovie to work out ideas - then refine them to take their place as editing aids for professionals in FCP-X - that represents nothing more or less than the path nearly every truly competent artist has employed since the dawn of time.

My 2 cents.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Clint Wardlow
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 4:37:29 pm

[Bill Davis] " that represents nothing more or less than the path nearly every truly competent artist has employed since the dawn of time."

Hey, not the case with me. I popped out of my mother's womb a fully formed artist, with a Mitchell 35mm camera in one hand and a Syd Fields Screenwriting Guide in the other. And damn that Mitchell was mighty heavy for my little baby fist.

I agree, it is all a process. The source for the inspiration is not nearly as important as the end result.


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John Godwin
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 5:15:41 pm

Your Mom must have been a very patient woman.

Best,
John


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 5:53:44 pm

[Bill Davis] "if Mr. Ubillos used iMovie to work out ideas - then refine them to take their place as editing aids for professionals in FCP-X"

... except that there wasn't all that much refining of the ideas at least not to the degree that I suspect you are claiming.

Those ideas were the same ideas except in the eyes of those who really want to exaggerate the differences.

In fact I'm not sure how much X has evolved beyond the original iMovie design ideas even now - sure we've got new features built on top of the iMovie design foundation but the fundamentals of the design haven't changed at all.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Bill Davis
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 6:10:57 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Nov 15, 2013 at 6:15:25 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "... except that there wasn't all that much refining of the ideas at least not to the degree that I suspect you are claiming.

Those ideas were the same ideas except in the eyes of those who really want to exaggerate the differences.

In fact I'm not sure how much X has evolved beyond the original iMovie design ideas even now - sure we've got new features built on top of the iMovie design foundation but the fundamentals of the design haven't changed at all.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com"


But Simon, to make that point, you have to imply that there's little difference between the capabilities of iMovie and the capabilities of FCP-X - a claim that I'd dispute.

While the underlying ideas and technology might be similar, it's like saying that the underlying technology is the same between a 22 caliber pistol and an army field artillery piece. It's certainly true. But not at all instructive as a comparison.

You simply can t reasonably expect to accomplish the tasks that one is designed to do - if you're stuck using the other. Can you?

I admit to being pretty ignorant about iMovie.

But if you're implying that I could have used it to successfully manage and process the pretty huge and complex project I recently completed for the Rocky Mountain Emmy Awards - a task that relied on the ability of FCP-X to import a vast array of formats - manage a very large database of criteria - and rapidly create and share literally dozens of finished projects -all on a brutal schedule - then I'd be very interested in hearing about that.

After all, If I can legitimately reduce my software costs from even the paltry $299 of X to the virtually free point of iMovie - any business person would be nuts not to do so.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 6:23:29 pm
Last Edited By Simon Ubsdell on Nov 15, 2013 at 6:29:01 pm

[Bill Davis] " to make that point, you have to imply that there's little difference between the capabilities of iMovie and the capabilities of FCP-X - a claim that I'd dispute."

To say that the design ideas are one and the same - which they are - is of course not to argue that they have the same capabilities.

Although of course the latest version of iMovie has "capabilities" that have leapfrogged what X is capable of!

[Bill Davis] "I admit to being pretty ignorant about iMovie."

I think you'd be very surprised at how good iMovie has been for a very long time. It's not X but it's a hugely impressive piece of design - precisely the design that went into building X. Which is why you like it so much.

[Bill Davis] "it's like saying that the underlying technology is the same between a 22 caliber pistol and an army field artillery piece. "

I think that's the wrong sort of analogy. The relationship between iMovie and X is the same as between the Ford with the family-sized engine and the exact same model Ford with the alloy wheels and boy racer engine. Not really that different at all when it comes down to it.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Bill Davis
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 6:42:13 pm

Then hopefully that will turn into one of X's greatest strengths.

To have two extremely compatible programs that are so similar that they can share data agilely is precisely what I invoked in the original post here.

I don't doubt for a second that with the caliber of talent Apple can afford to employ - X (and iMovie for that matter!) will have a long and robust developmental future.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Steve Connor
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 7:08:58 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "The relationship between iMovie and X is the same as between the Ford with the family-sized engine and the exact same model Ford with the alloy wheels and boy racer engine. Not really that different at all when it comes down to it."

Whilst I understand that FCPX is a derivation of some of the concepts first used in iMovie, saying they are not really that different isn't exactly accurate IMHO.

If we want to used a tired old car analogies then iMovie is an entry level compact and FCPX is an executive saloon.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 7:46:37 pm

[Steve Connor] "Whilst I understand that FCPX is a derivation of some of the concepts first used in iMovie"

But the point is that X uses all the key highly original design concepts pioneered by iMovie essentially unchanged, so "derivation of some of the concepts" is not really correct at all.

There was a lot of big talk about how the code had been rewritten which somehow managed to obscure this obvious and fundamental fact.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Marcus Moore
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 8:38:53 pm

While the timeline works the same way, multiple connected elements, storylines, compound clips, and separated A/V trimming functionality were new to X.

And I think I think it's fair to say there was a lot of development on the Event side as far as metadata is concerned. iMove allowed for basic favourite/reject tagging; but keywords, roles, text-searchable notes- and the way FCPX can use them for organization in Smart Collections, or batch renaming, the timeline index, or audio exporting were all improvements on the basic framework.



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Steve Connor
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 8:40:13 pm

[Marcus Moore] "on the basic framework.
"


Perhaps that's a better way to say it, iMovie was the basic framework for FCPX?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 8:43:33 pm

[Steve Connor] "Perhaps that's a better way to say it, iMovie was the basic framework for FCPX?"

Exactly.

It's silly to overstate the case either way but I think this gets it just right.

It's still a very deal deal to be the basic framework for something so radically different.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Steve Connor
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 8:58:18 pm

and now I find myself hoping that the new version of FCPX will be MORE like the new iMovie!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Marcus Moore
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 9:04:40 pm

[Steve Connor] "and now I find myself hoping that the new version of FCPX will be MORE like the new iMovie!"

Which is a rewrapped version of an unreleased version of FCPX! Are we confused yet?

If even half of what Alex4D has found in his code-spelunking is accurate- there's a lot to look forward to in a couple weeks.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 9:06:21 pm

steve, when you say the new imovie is fast there below - do you mean in operation - that its more responsive? Because even on decent hardware - I've found that a bit of a bug bear with X. I do personally find the timeline more sluggish than I'd like in click drag operations.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 9:17:25 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "steve, when you say the new imovie is fast there below - do you mean in operation - that its more responsive? Because even on decent hardware - I've found that a bit of a bug bear with X. I do personally find the timeline more sluggish than I'd like in click drag operations."

I've always found iMovie to be more responsive than X with the same material on the same machines - but that's not to say that it is.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Steve Connor
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 9:22:44 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I've always found iMovie to be more responsive than X with the same material on the same machines - but that's not to say that it is."

I'd seen the same, but the new one seems substantially faster, the redraw of the filmstrip pictures and waveforms in the timeline is massively faster. I've done a few edits over the last few weeks on PPro CC which has a pretty smooth timeline, iMovie feels just as fast.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 9:25:08 pm

[Steve Connor] "I'd seen the same, but the new one seems substantially faster, the redraw of the filmstrip pictures and waveforms in the timeline is massively faster. I've done a few edits over the last few weeks on PPro CC which has a pretty smooth timeline, iMovie feels just as fast."

Great! Here's hoping that plays through into the next version of FCP X - desluggification is probably the feature I'm most looking forward to.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Steve Connor
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 9:18:42 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "steve, when you say the new imovie is fast there below - do you mean in operation - that its more responsive? Because even on decent hardware - I've found that a bit of a bug bear with X. I do personally find the timeline more sluggish than I'd like in click drag operations."

Yes it's definitely faster below, I've tried importing the same media into both programmes and the new iMovie is quicker. X can be a little sluggish in click and drag on my system sometimes, but I always assumed it was my older system.

The de-chromed interface must be helping as well.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 9:00:36 pm

not bad davis, not bad. you had me lilting along to that notion.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Dave Jenkins
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 9:25:58 pm

I exported a 30 second clip from both iMovie and FCPX 10.0.9 iMovie export the clip in 5 seconds, FCPX exported in 30 seconds. Same computer same clip in both programs.

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro 3.2GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe+
FCS 3 OS X 10.7.4
FCP X, Logic Pro, Squeeze, Filemaker 10.8.3


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 9:40:04 pm

[Dave Jenkins] "I exported a 30 second clip from both iMovie and FCPX 10.0.9 iMovie export the clip in 5 seconds, FCPX exported in 30 seconds. Same computer same clip in both programs."

Yes, exporting from iMovie is blindingly fast, even with the previous version. Way quicker than X.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Steve Connor
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 15, 2013 at 4:49:36 pm

I've been cutting on the new iMovie today, I hope FCPX 10.1 has got a LOT of code in common with it because it's FAST!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Sandeep Sajeev
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 16, 2013 at 7:30:04 pm

[Steve Connor] " I've been cutting on the new iMovie today,"

Has it really come this far? The iMovie I remember was single track with a very limited editorial toolset.

I'm guessing it's way more capable now?


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Ben Mullins
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 16, 2013 at 9:24:21 am

I assumed that the import iMovie option was to further encourage the transition to X for the more consumer/enthusiast type customers, so they can still open the projects they started in iMovie even after they decide they want something a bit more professional and move to X.



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Bill Davis
Re: The FCP-X 10.1.0 nexus?
on Nov 16, 2013 at 10:30:07 pm

[Ben Mullins] " after they decide they want something a bit more professional and move to X."

The problem for me with this idea is that there's just so much coded into X that is WAY beyond the needs of anyone doing iMovie type work.

From XML to 4K+ to Rendering with 32bit floating point precision, there's just so much in X that seems to indicate that Apple is focused on crafting a completely professional editing ecosystem in the design of X. (I know that some of those things are also in iMovie, but the whole point of the shared code idea is that if you already have a great engine - why develop a totally separate one for your alternate program? Doesn't make sense to me.

So I have trouble thinking that they believe they're building just a "next step" for iMovie editors. If I was a company designing a program to those targets, there's a massive amount of what X is today that I feel would have been a vast waste of time to put in so early for simple "trade up" customers.

But maybe that's just me.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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