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R.I.P. Final Cut Pro

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Dan Hemmington
R.I.P. Final Cut Pro
on Jun 25, 2011 at 11:19:18 pm

Hi All

It now seems apparent that Apple no longer wants to support nor prolong the editing community it created; what will now fill the gap that FCP's death has left?

Avid MC, Premier Pro, Lightworks, Vegas, Media 100???

Please add any I have left out.

Final Cut Studio did two things really well. It worked well as a Non Linear Editing program (great short-cut editing, EDL's, OMF's, Multi Cam, Good UI, color, capture cards etc) but on top of that it offered the option of finishing to online standards for smaller budget jobs.

Out of the above what do you think is the natural successor to fulfilling these two needs and ultimately the strongest contender for replacing FCP's niche?

Look forward to your thoughts.

Dan


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Jan Maitland
Re: R.I.P. Final Cut Pro
on Jun 26, 2011 at 12:38:37 am

Given it's timeline-based workflow, Premiere seems like a logical go-to, even more so when you consider that it can/will run on the same AJA cards that, and internal graphic cards, that FCP 7 can (excluding the CUDA factor, of course). Also, it plays well with After Effects and, very likely, is already installed on many people's FCP 7 rigs thanks to being bundled with CS5.


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Craig Seeman
Re: R.I.P. Final Cut Pro
on Jun 26, 2011 at 1:09:28 am

I'm going to use Discreet Edit*. I hear it's very good and Discreet/Autodesk would never drop it. I'm also going to use with with Discreet Combustion and Discreet Cleaner as well. That's an excellent suite of apps. Newbies can use their Cinestream as well.



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Bruce Klein
Re: R.I.P. Final Cut Pro
on Jun 26, 2011 at 2:06:35 am

I'll tell you somthing about Discreet EDIT*... I have owned it since it was D Vision in 1996-7. NAB NON LINEAR EDITING SYSTEM OF THE YEAR... Has a Targa 2000 board that was 14k at that time... $42k for the system... (I was a sucker) and later on Autodesk proved it to me again... The company should be renamed Autodreck... it translates into "autocrap"

Discreet bought it and I kept with the upgrades... My final upgrade of edit*, paint/light/and the latest software along with a new intergraph computer w/ 900 pentium (dual) chips cost me about $8000.

GUESS WHAT? Five months later they dropped the whole damn line and refused to support it any longer.

They offered me as trade for FLAME at that time with a $5000 discount... Flame may have been $80k.

I still have the system with scads of SCSI drives striped. If the system drops 1 frame of audio, the whole damn thing crashed.

Couldn't recover it. Even if I could and needed support, IT WAS NO LONGER THERE.

It was fine when it worked properly, but as time went on, it didn't.

Want to buy the system?... If you are an NT whiz and a brain, it's for you... (antique collector?)

EVERY BIT OF SOFTWARE had a DONGLE... they stuck out so far from the back of the box it was a problem...

The vendor probably knew I was trashing $$$ but he saw the sale and the $$$ in it, but not the future...

It's about 9 years later and I am still pissed off...

Get sucked in and screwed out by AUTODESK... they never answered any letters and phone calls...

GREAT COMPANY!!!!

Anyone know what I can do with all this DISCREET LOGIC STUFF, besides use it for a doorstop?

By the way the "*" in edit* means, look below...

When it did work, it was great, but autodesk didn't seem to change the well thought out utilities and gui...

Sorry I am hostile...


*rip off


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Alan Okey
Re: R.I.P. Final Cut Pro
on Jun 26, 2011 at 3:22:35 am

[Craig Seeman] "I'm also going to use with with Discreet Combustion and Discreet Cleaner as well."

Ouch, you just had to rub it in...

There's a special place in hell for Autodesk for letting Combustion die. Even the EOL Combustion 2008 still has great features not present in the latest version of After Effects.

They say "it's just business." Well, business sucks.


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Nelson Torres
Re: R.I.P. Final Cut Pro
on Jun 26, 2011 at 5:44:57 am

Oh man Cleaner! I'm still weeping over that. Why'd Discreet buy it in the first place?


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Jim Sprague
Re: R.I.P. Final Cut Pro
on Jun 26, 2011 at 3:29:10 am

avid media composer is still my favourite. ive been cutting on avid since '94, only got into fcp in '08, so maybe i'm biased. Avid is infintely customizable and flexible. it takes a while to learn, but it's very fast once you catch on. i hope avid uses this chance to win back some of the users it lost to fcp. Kona support would be a good start, are you listening Avid?


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Jim Sprague
Re: R.I.P. Final Cut Pro
on Jun 26, 2011 at 3:33:13 am

avid media composer is still my favourite. ive been cutting on avid since '94, only got into fcp in '08, so maybe i'm biased. Avid is infintely customizable and flexible. it takes a while to learn, but it's very fast once you catch on. i hope avid uses this chance to win back some of the users it lost to fcp. Kona support would be a good start, are you listening Avid?

btw, they recently had a great crossgrade promotion for fcp users; mc5.5 for $995

btw btw our first system was around $140k, ran on Apple Quadro, we still have it somewhere.


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Chris Conlee
Re: R.I.P. Final Cut Pro
on Jun 26, 2011 at 5:50:30 am

Dan,

I'm not trying to be disagreeable, but you make it sound like FCP invented those capabilities or something. Truly, Avid is a professional application which caters to ALL levels of professional need. It has always been professional, and it will continue to be professional until the day the company ceases to exist.

I use FCP occasionally, and I own CS5.5 and have dabbled with Premiere Pro, but I personally prefer Avid whenever I can because for me it's hands-down the fastest, most intuitive editor out there. Obviously, each editor's mileage will vary.

Chris


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Dan Hemmington
Re: R.I.P. Final Cut Pro
on Jun 26, 2011 at 11:20:04 am

Hi All thanks for your replies so far. Avid and Premiere deinitely seem like the forerunners.

[Chris Conlee] "I'm not trying to be disagreeable, but you make it sound like FCP invented those capabilities or something. "

Sorry Chris I may have not made myself clear. FCP is what I learnt on I just wan't to enquire how good the others where at finishing, ie do they have the same grading/audio editing support. Thanks for your reply.

Does anyone know much about lightworks? Due to be released soon as open source. Maybe leaving the fate of software in the hands of the editing community is the best way to prevent editors being abandoned in this way?

By the way I hope now of this comes across as moaning, apple don't owe me anything - fair enough. Just trying to focus on which is the best software route to take next.

Very interested to see what happens with the release of MC6, Avid could really do a lot of good with this, as previously mentioned the addition of card support would be a great start.

Thanks
Dan


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Chris Conlee
Re: R.I.P. Final Cut Pro
on Jun 26, 2011 at 4:55:12 pm

I was sort of ribbing you, Dan. I guess the printed word isn't the best for conveying light-heartedness, huh?

Anyway, to answer your question, Avid doesn't have the best audio editing, at least in the application, to be sure. They've always assumed you'd do your fine audio work in another application (coincidentally, they own ProTools, of course). But I think that's going to change. In the 5.x release they finally added realtime track based audio plugins, and I think more ProTools functionality will creep in over time.

Avid also has a hard time differentiating the differences between their Symphony and Media Composer product lines. Symphony has the so-called professional built in color correction capabilities and Media Composer does not (it has CC, of course, but it's rudimentary). That's the major difference, although there are some other finishing things in Symphony as well. But even the CC in Symphony is getting long in the tooth.

Honestly, Avid is a top notch editor--the absolute best, in my opinion--and they have always expected color and audio to be done elsewhere. Therefore they have probably the best support for AAF/OMF/EDL and film list export in the industry, coupled with absolutely frame accurate tape control, etc. On the broadcast episodics I work on we routinely drop fixes and FX into master tapes from Avid without a thought in the world and I cannot remember Avid missing an insert by even a frame in over a decade of doing it. Those same post houses aren't as comfortable doing the same thing with FCP. Fair or not, a few years ago FCP wasn't always 100% accurate in the tape department and those concerns still linger.

All of this isn't to say that Avid can't do an extraordinary amount of FX and finishing work in the timeline, though. On a pilot I just worked on for Fox I was one of two assistant editors. We had a lot of VFX (over 200+ in a 48 minute show), and the other assist and I had to temp a bunch of them for previews and whatnot. The other assist was more comfortable taking shots to AE and doing composites and animated mattes, etc. But I was able to do nearly everything he was doing natively in the Avid with it's built-in tools. The AniMatte plugin is first class and the SpectraMatte keyer is pretty good. The only thing he could clearly do better in AE was planar tracking using Mocha, which is kick ass, btw. In Avid, I'd have to manually rotate my composites using the 3D warp tool and then track with single points.

I guess all of this is a really LONG way of saying, I'm sure all of these tools, FCP, Premiere Pro, and Media Composer have the capability of getting your jobs done. It's just a matter of truly learning the tools and going for it.

Although, as I think about it, if you're truly cutting film, as opposed to any flavor of video, I think there's really only one game in town now, and that's Avid. It has film tracking tools built in. With the likely demise of Cinema Tools, I don't think FCP X will ever track film. And I'm not sure of any tools for Premiere Pro that will do it. Because of this, for the foreseeable future, a good many Hollywood films that might have considered another editor will swing back to Avid's court. Although, to be sure, the days of film acquisition are waining.

Chris


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