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It is time to change the title of this forum.

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Steven J Dorr
It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 27, 2013 at 2:48:11 pm

Please change this forum title to, "Apple FCPX The Debate," and drop the, "or Not."
Also, please add a new forum titled, "Apple FCPX."
I make this post because Creative Cow is such a great resource and in my hope to make it better.
This forum section might have rightfully started with an, "or Not," debate, but this is 2013 and the debate is as over for FCPX as much as it is for the alternative editors. Sure we should ask the question, FCPX or Not? But not more than, Avid or Not?, or Adobe Premier or Not?. But there is not a forum with those titles and there is not a forum titled simply, "Apple FCPX" as there is for the other products. The current title is off-putting while some of the contents can be very useful to FCPX users. The Cow was smart to name the new Adobe Cloud debate, "Adobe Creative Cloud: The Debate." Why not put FCPX on the same playing field?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 27, 2013 at 5:00:57 pm

Hi, Steven.

[Steven J Dorr] "Please change this forum title to, "Apple FCPX The Debate," and drop the, "or Not.""

I am pretty sure there's still a rather big debate. This is a recent article about the professionalism of FCPX: http://provideocoalition.com/kmcauliffe/story/do-the-professionals-care-abo...

It's going to be an ongoing debate for some time.

[Steven J Dorr] "Also, please add a new forum titled, "Apple FCPX.""

Please see here: http://forums.creativecow.net/fcpxtechnique

There's a lot to learn and talk about over on that forum, with working FCPX professionals.

[Steven J Dorr] "or Adobe Premier or Not?"

There is a CC or not the debate forum, actually: http://forums.creativecow.net/creativeclouddebate

Here's a pretty good breakdown of how these forums came to be a couple of years ago, from the curator of said forums: http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/53597


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Shane Ross
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 1:54:27 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "I am pretty sure there's still a rather big debate. This is a recent article about the professionalism of FCPX: http://provideocoalition.com/kmcauliffe/story/do-the-professionals-care-abo....."

And then there this:

http://filmmakermagazine.com/76642-final-cut-pro-x/

No...there's still debate. Just as there is still debate about Adobe and the CC subscription..

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Ronny Courtens
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 7:49:33 am

The first "article" was written by someone who admits he has hardly ever used FCPX, yet he is bashing it in the most childish way. The second one is written by someone who has actually used it and he gives his professional opinion based on hands-on experience. I would hardly call this a debate.

- Ronny


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 4:12:30 pm

[Ronny Courtens] " I would hardly call this a debate."

But it is exactly how this forum started, right?


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Gary Huff
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 27, 2013 at 5:11:08 pm

[Steven J Dorr] "Please change this forum title to, "Apple FCPX The Debate," and drop the, "or Not."
Also, please add a new forum titled, "Apple FCPX.""


I'm curious...exactly how would your life be improved by Creative Cow making these changes?


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Mark Dobson
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 27, 2013 at 5:54:47 pm

It ain't broke so why fix it?


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Bill Davis
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 27, 2013 at 6:55:52 pm

Kinda comes down to whether or not you think branding matters.

Having "or not" in the title does end a clear message that the legitimacy of this particular program is still in question. And if that's appropriate - then it certainly could be argued that Adobe's forced rental model should be accompanied with every product in the CC family getting tagged with the same "or not?" discussion billboard..

The only forum on the Cow that still maintains this legitimacy questioning "brand statement" is this one.

Let me flip the question this way... why doesn't FCP-X the Debate - which is the brand equivalent of the way Premier is branded here - work better?

Frankly, X will do just fine regardless. But companies do spend millions and millions of dollars and publish endless "brand guidelines" to ensure that they're products are exposed to the market with consistency and accuracy.

And from that perspective, This forum kinda falls short if there's only a single NLE that remains required to have the "or not" tag posted on it's gateway link.

As a longtime VO guy who has to interpret scripts constantly - the line "should we hire Bob?" has a neutral implication. The line "should we hire Bob - or not?" has a very different one.

My 2 cents.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Charlie Austin
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 27, 2013 at 8:20:16 pm

FCPX sucks. It's too complicated and costs too much. I'm moving all my sh*t to iMovie.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bret Williams
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 27, 2013 at 9:21:52 pm

Did you try the new iMovie. WTH? Why do I feel like consumer stuff is insanely complicated? Everything is some hidden mystery. But the movie trailers are pretty addictive. Especially if you have kids.


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Charlie Austin
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 27, 2013 at 9:33:16 pm

[Bret Williams] "Did you try the new iMovie."

I'll say one thing, that little app is fast now.

[Bret Williams] "Everything is some hidden mystery. But the movie trailers are pretty addictive."

You know you can convert them to "movies" i.e.: a regular timeline. Then you can replace music, change the cut etc. umm... not that I would ever do that as it would force me to have fun and sully my professional editing fingers with lowly consumer software...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Lance Bachelder
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 6:06:20 am

Still too soon to change the name... December update will be the real decision maker for me...until then it's definitely FCPX: NOT!

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Ronny Courtens
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 8:07:58 am

This forum may have had its use in the first days of FCPX, but these days are over. FCPX seems to be considered a a strong NLE by a lot of people, whether you like it or not. In the real world the real debate is over, I guess that's why lately on this forum you see more and more purely subjective like/dislike opinions, sometimes leading to name-calling and insults frome one side as well as from the other, and only little real discussion anymore.

I have questioned the intentions of this forum name from day 1. There are people who dislike Avid, people who dislike Premier, and everyone has his own valid reasons of that, so why only have an Or Not forum about FCPX? FCPX has been working really well for our post house, that's why I love it just like I love Avid and very frankly I don't really care if someone else doesn't. So why even have such forums at all...

That's why I suggest to create a new forum: the "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate forum... or Not" (-:

- Ronny


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Paul Neumann
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 12:40:10 pm

Not much debate over on the Creative Cloud thread. You either are totally against it or you're not welcome.


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Chris Harlan
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 30, 2013 at 1:11:53 am

[Paul Neumann] "Not much debate over on the Creative Cloud thread. You either are totally against it or you're not welcome.
"


Now, that's not entirely true. If you use CC, or don't mind it so much, you become food on which to feed, or fuel to be burned. After all, you can't play darts without the dartboard.


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Herb Sevush
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 4:29:15 pm

[Ronny Courtens] "This forum may have had its use in the first days of FCPX, but these days are over."

Then why come? I don't mean this in a negative way, I value your input, I'm just curious why you would bother coming and contributing to a forum that you have no use for?

[Ronny Courtens] "I have questioned the intentions of this forum name from day 1. There are people who dislike Avid, people who dislike Premier, and everyone has his own valid reasons of that, so why only have an Or Not forum about FCPX?"

Historical context. Avid never EOL'd the most popular and fastest growing application in it's field. This forum name is the result of Apple's marketing decisions 2.5 years ago. Once branded, most see little reason to change. I would imagine if the Cow were first creating a forum for X under the current conditions the name would be quite different.

The "FCPX or not" title refers to the quandary that Apple put FCP Legacy users into. Those editors still make up a large share of this forum and I expect the question is still relevant to many of them; I know it is for me.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Lance Bachelder
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 5:08:32 pm

I agree - funny how the X fanboys support the notion that "well, they had to totally re-write FCP for 64bit so..." and we end up with X - which for all it's cool little features, is really, in the end just a bizarre NLE.

Avid, Adobe, Sony Vegas were all rewritten in 64bit with indiscernible changes to the interface and workflow (other than the obvious gains in performance etc.) - Apple could have done the same with FCP 7 and it would have been a great thing, but they didn't.

Here in LA among those that I know delivering shows on a regular basis, 7 is still used heavily along MC and Premiere with barely a hint of FCPX. This does not mean we're not all holding out hope that Apple will still do something great with FCP, but as it sits it's still not being used like those touting it as being ready for primetime wish it was.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Charlie Austin
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 5:12:30 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "This does not mean we're not all holding out hope that Apple will still do something great with FCP, but as it sits it's still not being used like those touting it as being ready for primetime wish it was."

What, in your estimation, could Apple do that would be "great"?

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Walter Soyka
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 4:40:53 pm

[Ronny Courtens] "I have questioned the intentions of this forum name from day 1. There are people who dislike Avid, people who dislike Premier, and everyone has his own valid reasons of that, so why only have an Or Not forum about FCPX? "

The forum was an offshoot from the classic FCP forum. FCPX, being an entirely new application, was a radical departure from FCP7 -- not really an upgrade. Any FCP7 user looking to move forward had to migrate.

The immediate question for most of these users was "FCPX, or something else?"

In my mind, the "Or Not" is not derogatory toward FCPX; it's an admission that FCP was the default for most of us, and that FCPX was something so different that all alternatives had to be explored.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Bill Davis
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 10:30:32 pm

[Walter Soyka] "In my mind, the "Or Not" is not derogatory toward FCPX; it's an admission that FCP was the default for most of us, and that FCPX was something so different that all alternatives had to be explored."

Fine.

Then what's the rationale for not making it Adobe CC "Or Not"?

Doesn't that very much equal an admission that owning software was the default for most of us and that being forced to rent ones tools in perpetuity is "something so different that all the alternatives had to be explored?"

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Walter Soyka
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 29, 2013 at 2:33:34 am

[Bill Davis] "Fine. Then what's the rationale for not making it Adobe CC "Or Not"?"

I think FCP was the default around here, so the choices were "FCP or not FCP" -- not so with Premiere, and the bulk of the conversation is NLE-driven.

Also, "Adobe Creative Cloud or Not: The Debate" would be too long to fit in its column in the forum list :)

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris Harlan
Re: It is time to change the title of this forum.
on Oct 29, 2013 at 10:20:49 am

[Bill Davis] "Then what's the rationale for not making it Adobe CC "Or Not"?
"


My guess is that it's length would have screwed up the columns in the Forums roster, so Tim just shortened it to make things look better.


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