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Charlie Austin
Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 25, 2013 at 10:22:56 pm

Discuss. ;-)

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/10/25/graphics-cards-in-new-mac-pro-may-be-us...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Steve Connor
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 25, 2013 at 10:32:36 pm

Forget the GPU, how about custom cases? http://www.macrumors.com/2013/10/25/jony-ive-designs-one-of-a-kind-red-mac-...

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Charlie Austin
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 25, 2013 at 10:39:19 pm

[Steve Connor] "Forget the GPU, how about custom cases?"

lol... I look forward to all the goofy ass case replacements that will surely appear as soon as it's out. :-) R2 D2 anyone?

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 25, 2013 at 10:35:18 pm

If it's it's true it's gonna be expensive, IMO. "Mac" versions of regular video cards today are already much more expensive than their PC counter parts (even thought the difference is just firmware) and for the Tube you are looking at proprietary form factor in conjunction with a very small potential customer base.

I bet the cards are replaceable by a tech (so if something fries the whole machine is not shot) but I doubt it will be a user replaceable part.




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Charlie Austin
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 25, 2013 at 10:44:15 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "If it's it's true it's gonna be expensive,"

Probably, but if they are replaceable - which they probably are - and there's a "pro" need for another card, I'd bet they'll become available. As you say though, at a price...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Richard Dee
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 1:50:21 am

But will the cutting blades be replaceable?

Oh, wait, I thought I was on a Vitamix forum.

Will there eventually be a way to replace the CPU?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 2:01:07 pm

The current cheese grater MacPro has the CPUs on a sled, but Apple never sold replacements.

I'm sure these GPUs in the new MacPro will be tech replaceable only as well.


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 2:20:31 pm

[Andrew Kimery] " "Mac" versions of regular video cards today are already much more expensive than their PC counter parts (even thought the difference is just firmware) "

Are they really different? My Hackintosh, now largely returned to being a PC since the demise of FCP7, runs a standard GeForce card perfectly well.

Actually, it would be interesting to run a cost comparison between a new MacPro and the equivalent parts list from dabs.com or wherever. When done before with the iMac, the parts at retail ran at around half price.

B

Bernie


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Andrew Richards
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 2:44:28 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "Are they really different? My Hackintosh, now largely returned to being a PC since the demise of FCP7, runs a standard GeForce card perfectly well. "

Does your Hackintosh boot from BIOS or UEFI? Even if it is UEFI, it is different EFI code than what ships in Macs. That's the key difference. You can put PC-spec NVIDIA cards in a Mac and it will boot with no gray Apple screen and can only show images once the OS and the necessary drivers have loaded. The firmware on the GPU needs to support the Mac's EFI code to work end-to-end.

Best,
Andy


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 2:46:12 pm

These GPU's do seem different, as you cannot find them anywhere on the AMD charts (unless I'm missing something.)

Cannot find the link now, but some guy tried to find the same components as the new MacPro for a hack and he couldn't find an equivalent motherboard nor the GPUs. So he took the closest PC parts he could find based on the specs and came up with a price that was about 3/4 of the original, without Thunderbolt connection and in an utterly ugly box. Even at half the price, when you add the time you spend building and testing such a thing, I think it is absolutely not worth it. Of course it all depends how much you value your time.

- Ronny


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Marcus Moore
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 2:51:36 pm

That's it exactly. I'll freely admit I pay more for a Mac, but I've been pretty much problem free since I started my business in 2006.

And when you consider how long I get out of the machine, and it's resale value relative to comparable PCs- If I come out behind- I don't think it's by very much. Certainly not enough to support the Meme of Macs as insanely overpriced.



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Marcus Moore
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 2:47:52 pm

Dylan Reeve already did this, and came to the conclusion that a BYO version would only be marginally cheaper, and that's with concessions on things he couldn't find available- so the MacPro is technically ahead at about $300 above his parts list.

http://dylanreeve.com/computers/2013/building-the-mac-pro.html



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Ronny Courtens
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 3:46:04 pm

Yep Marcus, that's the link I was looking for.

- Ronny


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Herb Sevush
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 4:29:29 pm

[Marcus Moore] "the MacPro is technically ahead at about $300 above his parts list."

While I think the Tube is a good deal financially what you are not getting for the money is flexibility. You cannot choose GPU's, you cannot have PCIe, you cannot have multiple CPUs. What you can have is the illusion of excellent energy efficiency and sound reduction, because Apple has outsourced most of the elements that suck up power and increase noise. Of course once you start adding external DVD recorders, hard drives and PCIe expansion cases, the power requirements and sound go back up. As long as you are completely satisfied with exactly what the Tube offers without any Thunderbolt expansion it's a smart choice.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Mark Dobson
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 5:20:14 pm

[Herb Sevush] "While I think the Tube is a good deal financially what you are not getting for the money is flexibility. You cannot choose GPU's, you cannot have PCIe, you cannot have multiple CPUs. What you can have is the illusion of excellent energy efficiency and sound reduction, because Apple has outsourced most of the elements that suck up power and increase noise. Of course once you start adding external DVD recorders, hard drives and PCIe expansion cases, the power requirements and sound go back up. As long as you are completely satisfied with exactly what the Tube offers without any Thunderbolt expansion it's a smart choice."

Yes, It would seem that what you buy is what you are stuck with - apart from memory. But I've already made this transition with switching from the Mac Pro to a new 27" iMac.

At the moment I've got 3 GRaid Drives attached to my iMac via Thunderbolt and a LaCie Thunderbolt Esata Hub and these would be the drives I would need to attach to the new Mac Pro.

Can't say they are that noisy or that I'm that concerned to monitor the power but see the point you are making about Apples claims of reducing energy consumption. And don't forget the monitors and a kettle.

Ultimately I think that if one made the wrong Mac Pro processor of GPU it will be possible to sell at a good price and get a new one. Certainly at a better price than my 2008 Mac Pro is valued at.


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Marcus Moore
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 5:28:42 pm

If Apple has made any direction clear over the last couple of years, it's that it's not interested in being the computer for tinkerers.

If the term makes sense, I'd call the MacPro the first "Pro Appliance" computer.

In a few cases you're correct- the MacPro is absolutely not as configurable for CPU and GPU as a standard tower is.

But what I like about the modularity is that I can push my peripherals off and into an cabinet or another room. I'd imagine the only drives I'll have on my desk in the new setup will be the drive I got via courier to offload footage. Everything else will be out of sight and sound.

I think the people on the losing end here are the ones with lots of legacy PCIe peripherals who (if they decide to buy one) will have to jump thru some hoops with expansion chassis to make their I/O and network cards work. But for someone like me who already has loads of Thunderbolt peripherals, the expense (and the clutter) is much less of an issue.



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Julian Bowman
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 6:13:17 pm

I actually use a blue ray burner as my main CD/DVD drive as I use it to archive things anyway. I already have 2 external drives (one for my internal raid drives and the other my launch drive, and two monitors. For me that is it and that will pretty much be the same when i get a new mac pro, so for me the only change is the big energy reduction of the new mac and my mac stays on a lot so that is a big appeal to me.

Admittedly I will get 2 x g-tech drives so I don't know if they consume more energy than my current one but it seems unlikely the bump in hard drive energy use will negate the saving from the machine itself.

My only real gripe with the new design is the fact there are no usb or thunderbolt ports on the front. I do a lot of swapping into my 2 front usb ports whether it be for phone charging, web cam, capturing SD cards or my Xoom or even charging my bluetooth ear piece and having to go round the back to do that will be annoying. Personally I would have liked some ports on the front, or all the thunderbolt and usb ports on the front and the other stuff on the back. But hey, I guess I can get a usb hub which will give me more than 2 frontal usb slots, so not ideal but not particularly a deal breaker.

Ultimately it is horses for courses. For me, as a one man show working in a niche market, the new mac pro offers a great deal and the price is affordable. And anything that circumnavigates the crashes and lag I get on my current machine will be embrace with loving arms (apart from imacs, I have an inexplicable pathological dislike of them. Can't say why, just glad I don't have to buy one).



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Steve Connor
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 6:49:32 pm

Julian, you know you could have the ports at the front, it's a cylinder!!!!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Julian Bowman
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 7:41:50 pm

Believe me Steve, the thought of spinning it rounds has been mulled, but having the power lead out the front.... i'll see when I get one :)



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Mark Dobson
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 7:05:08 pm

[Julian Bowman] "Ultimately it is horses for courses. For me, as a one man show working in a niche market, the new mac pro offers a great deal and the price is affordable. And anything that circumnavigates the crashes and lag I get on my current machine will be embrace with loving arms (apart from imacs, I have an inexplicable pathological dislike of them. Can't say why, just glad I don't have to buy one)."

I shared your dislike of the iMac breed of Macs but just couldn't wait, this time last year, to take advantage of thunderbolt speed, so I've had a hassle free year of editing with FCPX, and to be honest I have to ask myself how I can justify the imminent and inevitable purchase of the new Mac Pro.


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Julian Bowman
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 7:44:05 pm

Mark, I have considered it too, many times, but decided to hold out and stumble along and wait and see if a new mac pro was in the offing. I just can't justify £2500 every year and my current mac can handle things fine most of the time... and now it appears patience has paid dividends. I'm not sure what the new mac will be like for different set ups, including shops, but for me it really does look quite sweet, and not much more than I would have spent in years past, or even on a maxed out i7 imac.



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Bernard Newnham
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 9:10:58 pm

http://dylanreeve.com/computers/2013/building-the-mac-pro.html

An interesting and very competent review. One has to wonder - just what proportion of video professions need all that RAM etc, and how many will lash out all that money just because it's a MacPro, and they have expensive gadget lust. I've just completed my first hour-long show for some time - being mostly retired now - shot on three cameras recording in ProRes LT. This PC is a long way now from being the fastest, but it coped perfectly well with its i5-750 and 8Gb ram. Rendering maxed out the CPU, as designed, but not the ram, and the two screens in front of me accommodated Premiere Pro CS6 without trouble. When I need to upgrade I'll just rip out the motherboard etc and bung in new bits.

Just down the road from me they make the McLaren P1 and I see them around the place. I don't actually need one to get around though, my Toyota Avensis does the job perfectly well. Most people don't need the fastest or flashiest. Actually no-one needs a McLaren P1.

B

Bernie


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Marcus Moore
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 10:03:42 pm

Just like with the old MacPro- the purchase here will mean a longer interval between upgrades. I am starting to feel some strain on heavier jobs on this 2011 iMac- but it's done well for 2 years.

With the fairly topped out system I plan to buy in December, I'm betting that the machine will serve me at least 3-5 years, unless something changes dramatically in that time.

The only reason I didn't hold onto my old MacPro tower was because of timing- I bought the fastest and last PowerPC you could get. The G5 Quad. Oh well... But amazingly I still got $800 for it when I sold it 3 years ago.



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Herb Sevush
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 9:27:28 pm

[Julian Bowman] " I already have 2 external drives (one for my internal raid drives and the other my launch drive, "

Just as a matter of curiosity, you have a current mac pro and you boot from external drives? Why?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Julian Bowman
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 10:17:09 pm

Hey Herb.

no sorry didn't explain properly. I have 8 x 2TB raided together (internal) and then put an SSD into my disc drive bay and use an external blue ray burner for discs.

The two externals are currently for backing up my files drive (raid) and my boot up drive (SSD).



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Marcus Moore
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 9:56:01 pm

[Julian Bowman] "Personally I would have liked some ports on the front, or all the thunderbolt and usb ports on the front and the other stuff on the back. But hey, I guess I can get a usb hub which will give me more than 2 frontal usb slots, so not ideal but not particularly a deal breaker."

I do a lot of drive swapping as well, and this will by my solution. A Thunderbolt to Thunderbot, USB2, USB3, and Firewire800 hub that can sit on my desk seems like the best solution.

So who's making one?



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Julian Bowman
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 10:17:41 pm

Please create a thread in here if you find one :)



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Rick Lang
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 26, 2013 at 10:30:05 pm

[Marcus Moore] "I do a lot of drive swapping as well, and this will by my solution. A Thunderbolt to Thunderbot, USB2, USB3, and Firewire800 hub that can sit on my desk seems like the best solution.
"


Belkin: http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F4U055/

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 27, 2013 at 2:58:17 pm

This one has esata: http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo15thunderboltdock.html

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


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Mark Dobson
Re: Mac Pro GPU may be replaceable
on Oct 27, 2013 at 4:17:42 pm

One thing is clear from looking at the picture of the Sonnet Echo 15 Thunderbolt dock and that is that it wasn't designed by Jonathan Ive.

Another thing is that at $400 it isn't cheap but it certainly covers all the bases and even has space for a drive bay for a SSD or HDD.

If all one is after is to connect eSATA drives, the LaCie eSATA Hub at $199 is another option. One can also daisy chain onwards with this unit and it's got a nice blue light on the front.

I use one of these to connect 2 GTech eSATA drives and an Apple USB SuperDrive when I want to import CD's or burn DVDs.


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