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Dan Stewart
Mac pro pricing
on Oct 24, 2013 at 6:47:17 pm

Heres an interesting breakdown:
http://dylanreeve.com/computers/2013/building-the-mac-pro.html

It looks like Apple have priced one of their machines reasonably - no Apple premium. Does this mean it's snowing in hell right now?



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Rick Lang
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 24, 2013 at 7:27:20 pm

Intel’s prices assuming I’ve picked the correct corresponding chips:

E5-1620 v2 3.7GHz 4-core: $294
E5-1650 v2 3.5GHz 6-core: $583
E5-1680 v2 3.0GHz 8-core: $1,723
E5-2967 v2 2.7GHz 12-core: $2,618

Now it looks like the unpublished cost of the Mac Pro with the 8-core and 12-core options means Apple is undecided about the price. One could speculate each jump will cost $1,000 but the Intel numbers don’t increase so evenly so the marketing dept will pick something hopefully corresponding to their costs.

Edit: found the Intel description of that 8-core E5.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 24, 2013 at 8:22:44 pm

Up until the three year hiatus on tower development between 2010-2013 the Mac Pros have actually been price competitive when a new model has rolled out. Some times Apple would get an exclusivity window on new CPUs from Intel and that would be how they'd really differentiate themselves from other hardware makers.




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Marcus Moore
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 24, 2013 at 9:40:57 pm

Great to see this. The lazy meme is that you can put a machine together this fast for half of what the MacPro is costing.

And as the article points out- there's some compromises he's had to make to get to that price. You just can't get some of this stuff PC side yet.



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Mark Dobson
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 9:59:47 am

[Dan Stewart] "It looks like Apple have priced one of their machines reasonably - no Apple premium. Does this mean it's snowing in hell right now?"

I've been pleasantly surprised at the affordability of the Mac Pro, the entry level unit is same price that I paid for my maxed out 27" iMac earlier this year but no doubt I would probably go for the next model up.

And that's where the detail of the pricing will start to get interesting. As you will have heard on the streamed presentation these machines come with a 'quarter of a terabyte' flash storage as standard. I think most people will opt for 512GB or 1TB storage and it will interesting to see how these are priced. They are specifically designed for the new Mac Pro and, unlike the memory, it doesn't look at this stage like something that one could upgrade at a later date. ( I'm presuming one can upgrade the memory oneself )

But really the question I need to ask myself in these straightened times is how will the new Mac Pro compare with my 27" iMac, will I really see a huge performance increase?


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Steve Connor
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 11:00:16 am

[Mark Dobson] "will I really see a huge performance increase?
"


I would imagine so, especially based on two workstation class GPU's vs the mobile GPU in the iMac

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Christian Schumacher
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 3:05:06 pm

As far as pricing goes, entry models are fine. But I would urge anyone who's interested in having the best bang for the buck, and for as log as three years, to avoid the entry video cards offering and both the 4 and 6 core processors. IMO, there will be plenty of beefed up "ancient" Mac Pros beating those, specially if you're into workflows that touches software from other companies than Apple itself. The sweet spot is the 8-core and D500, but aim for the 12 core and D700. Do. Not. buy. 4 or 6 core. Nor. D300. Unless you're buying dozens, or something like that...


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Marcus Moore
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 3:21:45 pm

I agree wholeheartedly.

No question I'll be chipping for the D700s- my only question is which is the best processor for FCPX/Motion workflow. For the extra money I'd spend on the 12-core 2.7GHz processor, is there any discernible benefit over the higher-clocked 8-core 3.0GHz.

Are there any barefeats tests on how multi-core aware the X and Motion are?



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Christian Schumacher
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 3:44:24 pm

[Marcus Moore] "No question I'll be chipping for the D700s- my only question is which is the best processor for FCPX/Motion workflow. For the extra money I'd spend on the 12-core 2.7GHz processor, is there any discernible benefit over the higher-clocked 8-core 3.0GHz."

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say for extensive FCPX and Motion work, the best bang for the buck is a 8-core coupled with the D700s. Maybe the D500s if one is into narrative and/or outsourcing graphics. But if you're also compressing a lot then you should go for the 12 core. Meaning that if you have the need to output a lot of files on a daily basis and that's your only workstation for doing it while you wait for it. And, of course, how fast this turnaround work should be for you, then you choose the 12 core.


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Marcus Moore
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 3:49:42 pm

You may be right- I know Barefeats did some FCPX tests on different processors a while back. I'll have to see what they results were.

Considering I'm currently working on a 2011 i7 iMac, anything is going to be a huge step up.



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Rick Lang
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 5:15:21 pm

[Marcus Moore] "You may be right- I know Barefeats did some FCPX tests on different processors a while back. I'll have to see what they results were.

Considering I'm currently working on a 2011 i7 iMac, anything is going to be a huge step up.
"


We need to wait for new versions of the software since various functions have been tuned to the new machines and the custom GPUs. So don’t put too much stock in their previous benchmarks. By December most questions will have been answered.

Considering I’m upgrading from a late 2009 iMac, it’s going to be silly fast. Need to start throwing BMPC4K UHD raw files at it next year though and that will at least begin to justify the upgrade.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Steve Connor
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 6:03:54 pm

[Rick Lang] "Need to start throwing BMPC4K UHD raw files at it next year though and that will at least begin to justify the upgrade."

Assuming BMD actually manage to get the 4K camera out the door!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Rick Lang
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 6:26:53 pm

[Steve Connor] "Assuming BMD actually manage to get the 4K camera out the door!"

You know some people give their lives purpose waiting for The Rapture or The End of the World or for the Blue Jays to win the World Series. But there are a few thousand people, who are waiting for the BMPC4K with that sense of zealous anticipation. If you don’t have the ‘religion’ I can see it’s hard for the uninitiated to understand. Sure the camera was “on track” to deliver by the end of July 2013 and sure there have been some unspecified problems that may delay the camera until December or next January. But that isn’t enough to shake one’s faith when what you are awaiting will be the start of a new millennium in indie filmmaking. It’s the kind of event when you might consider resetting the start date of the Christian Calendar! or something like that… excuse me, my Kool-Aid is here and I’m thirsty!

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Rick Lang
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 5:10:31 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "I'm going to go out on a limb here and say for extensive FCPX and Motion work, the best bang for the buck is a 8-core coupled with the D700s. "

Edit: found the description for the Intel e5 1680 v2 8-core chip and it does look good with more than twice the amount of L3 cache (25600 KB) compared to the 6-core chip.
Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Rick Lang
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 5:21:28 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "As far as pricing goes, entry models are fine. But I would urge anyone who's interested in having the best bang for the buck, and for as log as three years, to avoid the entry video cards offering and both the 4 and 6 core processors."

I’m hoping the 6-core D500 will handle uncompressed raw 4K, but you may have a good point. It makes me nervous when I see all the Apple Mac Pro Performance results were on a very high-end configuration. Apple is not above writing the web page promotional copy as if it applies to all machines, when the reality may be much of the performance requires the top model! I’m not rushing this purchase until I hear about real world results from people I trust, like this community.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Christian Schumacher
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 5:57:45 pm

[Rick Lang] " I’m not rushing this purchase until I hear about real world results from people I trust, like this community."

Amen brother! One point I should address regarding the new mac pro is that a 4 or 6 core won't deliver the same resale value after a couple of years. Imagine when there's a new iMac out there with TB2 and PCIe SSDs? (maybe they'll put a 6-core in there? hmm?) And that won't be good for the ones holding a 4 core, or even a 6 core, I'll tell you. This new iMac should be coming in a less than a year from now. More two coins I'll put in the collective box.


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Rick Lang
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 6:42:10 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "One point I should address regarding the new mac pro is that a 4 or 6 core won't deliver the same resale value after a couple of years."

Interesting point. I think one difference in an updated iMac will be the lack of dual GPUs that will remain the domain of the Mac Pro at least for a few years. Always hard to predict and now that I’ve stated that, Apple’s hardware designers are probably having a good laugh! I’ll consider 8-core and D500 but let’s see what the pricing is like. The 8-core and 12-core are 2-socket processors and the 4-core and 6-core are probably 1-socket. The 2-socket processors would stand a greater chance of being useful years longer.

One thing that nags at me is the HDMI 1.4 versus HDMI 2.0 that will surely be in the next update to the Mac Pro. I’m hoping that is a firmware upgrade for the next generation Mac Pros so they are not orphaned prematurely. Apple has sometimes not been kind to the “first of its kind” machines which are quickly replaced by the next iteration with a longer life. In any event I’d feel better if I was assured HDMI 2.0 will be a firmware upgrade on this new Mac Pro.

Edit: the 8-core processor is E5 1680 v2 so it may be 1-socket but Intel has not updated all its webpages to include this chip which appears to have been released in late September.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Marcus Moore
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 6:49:45 pm

A couple of camera manufactures have already said that their installed HDMI 4.1 ports can be firmware upgraded to HDMI 2.0. Hopefully Apple has been similarly forward thinking in.



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Christian Schumacher
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 7:35:22 pm

[Rick Lang] " I think one difference in an updated iMac will be the lack of dual GPUs that will remain the domain of the Mac Pro at least for a few years."

This should tip the balance towards the pro, depending on what's in there. What if one is choosing the entry MacPro, say, by january next year, with the D300s and a 4 core for instance, and this "new iMac" is released within months from that, porting newer intel processors and the latest video card generation? How would that entry MacPro perform then? Yes, there's going to be an i7 and a light weight video card in the iMac. But did I mentioned that iMacs are also going to have PCIe SSDs? Precisely the same ones the new MacPro has? So, provided you know what you're doing - or if you acknowledge what you can do with them - those could be virtually identical in a real world scenario. A lot of money can be saved and, at the other hand, a lot of money could be invested in a more wise manner. The same could be said for existing gear, just remember to get machines that have an ongoing AppleCare or something to that effect, insurance or available cash for emergencies.


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Steve Connor
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 7:53:46 pm

This might be good? http://www.macrumors.com/2013/10/25/graphics-cards-in-new-mac-pro-may-be-us...

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 9:14:31 pm

[Steve Connor] "This might be good? http://www.macrumors.com/2013/10/25/graphics-cards-in-new-mac-pro-may-be-us.....
"


If it's it's true it's gonna be expensive. "Mac" versions of regular video cards today are already much more expensive than their PC counter parts (even thought the difference is just firmware) and for the Tube you are looking at proprietary form factor.

I bet the cards are replaceable by a tech if something fries but I doubt it will be a user replaceable part.




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Rick Lang
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 8:13:18 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "So, provided you know what you're doing - or if you acknowledge what you can do with them - those could be virtually identical in a real world scenario. A lot of money can be saved and, at the other hand, a lot of money could be invested in a more wise manner. "

After my Power Mac died, I went to the completely maxed out late iMac 2009 when the redesign seemed significant at the time and there was no shortage of hyperbole on Apple’s webpages. I thought I had made a purchase good for five years but I was suspicious that the GPU would be lacking. Well, surprise, within a few months the early 2010 iMac was out with a much better GPU and I did feel somewhat burned that there was no option to upgrade for the 2009 ‘early adopters’. Then of course the 2010 iMac owners got a taste of the same medicine when the 2011 iMacs included Thunderbolt if memory serves me correctly. So I agree if you know what you need, a tricked out iMac can serve you well these days. Maybe the 2014 iMac will be another leap forward from the 2009 iMac and set a new bar for what can be done for years to come.

But that is part of my thinking in returning to the potentially upgradable Mac Pro in which conceivably most of the components may prove to be “user accessible.” I don’t think the CPU and motherboard will be replaceable though so you have a good point to get something like the 8-core option that will more likely retain its value for at least three years. Sure we would all love the D700 GPU option as future-proofing, but I need to wait on prices and relevant benchmarks (using video, please Barefeats!) as the D500 may suffice. I agree best to max it out if you can though so we’ll see what happens in a few months.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Christian Schumacher
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 8:41:56 pm

[Rick Lang] " I don’t think the CPU and motherboard will be replaceable though so you have a good point to get something like the 8-core option that will more likely retain its value for at least three years. Sure we would all love the D700 GPU option as future-proofing, but I need to wait on prices and relevant benchmarks (using video, please Barefeats!) as the D500 may suffice. I agree best to max it out if you can though so we’ll see what happens in a few months."

Yeah! More to the point:

Forget the 4 core, forget the 6 core and forget the D300s!

Unless you,

a. need lots of Macs,
b. are crazy for Macs,
c. placed a wrong order,
d. reached your CC limit,
e. work with Logic or any DAW (LOL)


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Rick Lang
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 5:07:45 pm

[Mark Dobson] "As you will have heard on the streamed presentation these machines come with a 'quarter of a terabyte' flash storage as standard. I think most people will opt for 512GB or 1TB storage and it will interesting to see how these are priced. They are specifically designed for the new Mac Pro and, unlike the memory, it doesn't look at this stage like something that one could upgrade at a later date. ( I'm presuming one can upgrade the memory oneself )"

The flash storage is “user accessible” which means it can be upgraded although we need to wait until November to see the prices. I read somewhere that only one screw needs to be unscrewed to replace the flash. Still going to be cheaper to order what you believe you need as build-to-order rather than upgrade later. I don’t know if and when third-party flash for the Mac Pro will be available but that might be an option in the future.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Lance Moody
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 8:59:03 pm

Aw, I was hoping that the posters here who said after the initial announcement that the base machine would be $6000 could regale us with more of their expert knowledge.

Lance



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Christian Schumacher
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 9:20:52 pm

[Lance Moody] " Aw, I was hoping that the posters here who said after the initial announcement that the base machine would be $6000 could regale us with more of their expert knowledge."

If we consider the 4 and 6 core entry systems as far from optimal (for video) the 8 core and 12 core coupled with the highest VRAMs should take care of filling up that price tag quite fast. I dare to say even more than that. That's an obvious marketing move from Apple, very smart to release only the entry systems price in advance. Marketing at its best. There's nothing to see here, actually. They're keeping the same price structure than before.


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Steve Connor
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 9:26:18 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "If we consider the 4 and 6 core entry systems as far from optimal (for video)"

I disagree, at the moment the top spec iMac is pretty good for video and these base level systems will be be even faster, unless you are planning on shooting 4K RAW and let's face facts most people won't.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Rick Lang
Re: Mac pro pricing
on Oct 25, 2013 at 9:33:09 pm

Lance, to be kind, the $6,000 level may be where many professionals end up not counting all the necessary accessories some may need like monitors and external storage etc. Certainly the entry-level machine is half that but few may buy it depending upon their individual requirements of course.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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