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Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?

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Mark Dobson
Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 15, 2013 at 1:57:25 pm

This might all seem like old news, but I've just come across a blog by Richard Taylor of fcpx.tv where he speculates that FCPX 10.1 is likely to be a paid upgrade.

He bases his argument on close reading of the Final Cut Pro X software licence agreement which to quote his post states that:

"Apple may provide you any such upgrades and updates that it may release up to, but not including, the next major release of the Apple Software, for free. With respect to this Apple Software, for example, if you originally purchased a license for version 10.0 of the Apple Software, Apple may provide you for free any software upgrades or updates it might release (e.g. version 10.0.1 or 10.0.2) up to, but not including, version 10.1"

I couldn't actually find this quote but found a similar wording so can vouch for it's accuracy.

So that sounds pretty conclusive that the big upgrade we are all waiting for will cost extra and the next question would be how much? Presumably this will be more than the present cost of the software.

Whilst existing versions will no doubt continue to be supported I doubt that there will be 2 versions for sale on the App store, so all existing users will need to pay for the enhanced software or stick with 10.0.1.

Whilst many have long wish lists for the upgrade, I'm pretty happy with how FCPX works at the moment but I've always acknowledged that its wise to keep up with Apples updates or upgrades so I'm sure that I'll pay out and move forward.

Just so long as Apple doesn't follow Adobe's subscription model!


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Marcus Moore
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 15, 2013 at 3:10:22 pm

[Mark Dobson] "So that sounds pretty conclusive that the big upgrade we are all waiting for will cost extra and the next question would be how much? Presumably this will be more than the present cost of the software."

I'm not sure I follow- you're imagining that 10.1 will cost more than the $299 that the software currently sells for? If so, I disagree. Just like Logic9 to LogicX, the price for the software will probably remain the same.

[Mark Dobson] "Whilst existing versions will no doubt continue to be supported I doubt that there will be 2 versions for sale on the App store, so all existing users will need to pay for the enhanced software or stick with 10.0.1."

I think you mean 10.0.9. And again, just like any software in the appStore, you can still have access to older versions after newer ones come out. If someone decides to stick with 10.0.9 for the time being, if they buy a new computer, they'll still be able to download the latest version of 10.0 from their purchase history. And if a critical bug were found, Apple could still update 10.0.

As you point out, I think Apple spells out the line for unpaid/paid updates quite clearly.

The only way 10.1 is a free update is if Apple decides to do it as a MASSIVE PR back-peddle. And frankly, I think that's unlikely.

Apple provided refunds to those who wanted them right after release, and Apple has provided 30 day free trials since 10.0.1. If 10.1 IS a big upgrade, then I hope they continue with the free trial, so that people can take the time to re-evaluate it before purchasing.



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Mark Dobson
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 15, 2013 at 4:01:18 pm

[Marcus Moore] "I think you mean 10.0.9. And again, just like any software in the appStore, you can still have access to older versions after newer ones come out. If someone decides to stick with 10.0.9 for the time being, if they buy a new computer, they'll still be able to download the latest version of 10.0 from their purchase history. And if a critical bug were found, Apple could still update 10.0"

What I meant to say was that I didn't think there would be 2 different versions of FCPX on offer to choose from and on the price issue I had thought that a higher price would be justified as it will hopefully be a far more sophisticated programme but you are probably right to compare the situation to the Logic Pro to Logic Pro X scenario.

Either anyone with sense would not be actually purchasing FCPX right at the moment!

As pointed out in the thread above this one the rumour sites are predicting Nov 15th for the new MacPro so maybe we will have to wait for FCPX 10.1 until then as they seem to be pretty tied up together in terms of the publicity. - But to be honest speculation is speculation


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Marcus Moore
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 15, 2013 at 4:22:08 pm

Yeah. It's a real tough call to make on timing.

On one hand you have 10.0.6 was released at this event last year. So there is precedent.

On the other hand you have any either technical or PR crossover with Mavericks and the MacPro.

And above all this is the question of whether FCPX 10.1 is ready. They may need until mid-Nov to be ready to launch. Who knows.



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Bret Williams
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 17, 2013 at 4:16:14 am

Has anyone pondered what we can do with 10.0.x after we purchase (not upgrade, there's no upgrades in App store) 10.1 and we no longer need 10.0.x? Any other piece of boxed software and I'd sell my license if it wasn't needed for an upgrade. So now I have purchased a piece of software I don't need and can't sell? Starts to smell like a cloud.


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Marcus Moore
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 17, 2013 at 4:35:20 am

I think the big distinction from "cloud" is that you're not paying monthly for a service whether you choose to upgrade or not. If 10.1 has no value for you or your workflow, keeping using 10.0.9. At 28 months since launch, FCPX and all it's free update has cost you $10.71/mo. If you keep using 10.0.9 as is for another year it will have cost you $7.50/mo. While CC Pr (only) will continue to cost you $19.99/mo.

But I think you'd best get used to digital media having no resale value. I don't see that changing. It was nice while it lasted (like resale textbooks) but those days are coming to an end. Thankfully the software has gotten cheaper as well.

And this is not to say that I'm against CC's implementation- I'm already a subscriber. I'm happy to pay $299 every two years. Heck, I'd be willing to pay that every year to keep major updates coming. It's a key cost to my business- and super small compared to what I make off it.



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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 17, 2013 at 4:57:17 am

It's been a while since I actually bothered to read an EULA but I'm fairly sure that part of it is that in return for getting an upgrade price on the next version you agreed to not resell your current copy. So technically, you've never had the option o selling your boxed versions.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 17, 2013 at 6:00:51 am

[Bret Williams] "Starts to smell like a cloud.
"


More like starts to smell like digital distribution. Music, movie, books, etc.,. if you get a digital copy you are stuck with it until a ubiquitous licensing and tracking system emerges where all content is DRM'd. So if I sell my eBook (or whatever) to someone else the eBook is remotely wiped from all of my devices and then made available for the buyer to download. Having all media cloud-based and streamed to the end user makes this problem easier to handle but comes with it's own set of problems.

[Jeff Kirkland] "It's been a while since I actually bothered to read an EULA but I'm fairly sure that part of it is that in return for getting an upgrade price on the next version you agreed to not resell your current copy. So technically, you've never had the option o selling your boxed versions."

How could Apple's EULA talk about upgrade discounts when upgrades don't exist in their app store?




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Marcus Moore
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 17, 2013 at 1:10:14 pm

I think he was talking about Legacy upgrades.



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Gary Huff
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 15, 2013 at 3:48:46 pm

But it will have to have its own separate entry in the App Store, right? So what would they call it? FCPX 10.1? I thought the X stood for 10? And isn't FCPX 10.1 kind of a crappy naming convention? Perhaps FCPX2?

Logic 9 and Logic X are no way comparable. That would be like if Apple had added FCP7 to the App Store first and then had later released FCPX.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 15, 2013 at 3:54:26 pm

[Gary Huff] "But it will have to have its own separate entry in the App Store, right?"

I'd imagine it would. I'd also imagine the NLE formerly known as FCPX will become unavailable.



[Gary Huff] "So what would they call it? FCPX 10.1? I thought the X stood for 10? And isn't FCPX 10.1 kind of a crappy naming convention? Perhaps FCPX2?"

We had operating systems named "Mac OS X 10.x" for more than a decade.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Mark Dobson
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 15, 2013 at 4:03:56 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I'd imagine it would. I'd also imagine the NLE formerly known as FCPX will become unavailable."

I like it and in 5 years time we could have FCPXIV


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Gary Huff
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 15, 2013 at 8:34:11 pm

[Walter Soyka] "We had operating systems named "Mac OS X 10.x" for more than a decade."

Yeah, but I was explicitly referring to it's appearance on the App Store. You didn't click on the panel that read "Mac OS X 10.7", it read "OSX Lion". You don't click on the listing for "Mac OS X 10.8" you click on the entry for "OSX Mountain Lion."

It will be "OSX Mavericks" not "Mac OS X 10.9".


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Marcus Moore
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 15, 2013 at 4:28:38 pm

You are correct to a certain extent- but this is still the change from one major version number to the next.

You are right about the naming convention though. FCPX will be FCPX for at least a decade, or until whatever comes after 10.9. I suppose Apple could do what they have done with their iLife and iWork products and call the new version FCPX 2013.

And I'm doubtful that they'll leave the current version up for sale, even if they meet separate system requirements. I think we can be pretty certain that 10.1 will likely have the same OS10.8.3 requirement as LogicProX. And they didn't leave LogicPro9 up in the appStore for those who can't run the new software, so I think that sends a clear message.

The new software will require a certain minimum OS and hardware, just like the last one did.



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David Chapman
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 4:04:49 am

Since the app page itself is labeled "Final Cut Pro X" and they will be maintaining that name (with no version numbers), it is entirely possible that all versions of 10.X will be free. While the description and terms does mention free upgrades not including 10.1, that was also written in 2011(?). Apple's recent move to giving away iOS apps with new purchases makes me think they could continue with free upgrades, or at least including FCPX with the new Mac Pro.

I agree that it will be hard to distinguish Final Cut Pro X from Final Cut Pro X in a purchased tab in the Mac App Store. Unless the App Store is updated itself, or the 10.1 FCPX app gets a new icon (which neither seem realistic), 10.1 could continue to be free.

If it's not free, I don't know how they would solve some of the more complex issues with listing the software as a purchased item (10.0.9 vs 10.1). That alone makes me think 10.1 will provide us with a link that says "update" if we have 10.0.9 purchased and installed. Just my thoughts...


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Leo Hans
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 11:50:57 am

I don't think it's going to be a paid update for several reasons (just speculation, of course):

- Apple's goal with FCP is not to make money with the application itself but selling macs and with media content distribution.
- Apple wants to gain more market and still need to push FCPX forward.
- If you look at Apple's apps in iOS or App Store you'll find that all of them are updated and upgraded for free. The only exception is Mac OS, but don't forget that it comes for free with every new Mac and you need to pay for it only with "old" computers".

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro (7+X)
http://www.leohans.com


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Marcus Moore
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 2:29:56 pm

Agreed- we're all engaging in fun speculation, and with some interesting (and conflicting) data points.

So it's going to be really interesting to see how it all turns out.

Apple has generally commoditized software, and I think we're currently seeing a fresh move to add value to both their OS platforms by bundling software with new hardware purchases. iLife has always been free on OSX, and I think Apple's recent moves with their iWork apps (both iWork in the cloud and free with hardware on iOS) are first as Apple's answer to Google Docs, and second jumping on the hole left by Microsoft no bringing Office to iOS. With Office365 as a paid service, I think Apple sees an opportunity to grab some marketshare. If someone can use Pages on their iOS device AND on their Windows PC, why pay for Office (depending on your usage of course)?

So while there's a case to do this, I think you have to look at iLife/iWork and ProApps as two separate categories. Right now the only data points we have for ProApps on the appStore are FCPX, Motion5, Compressor, Aperture, and both LogicPro9 and LogicProX. All these have been full price paid apps. And unless something dramatic changes I think that's what we should expect.



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Leo Hans
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 2:51:39 pm

That's true, but don't forget that it was their first versions in the Apps Store.

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro (7+X)
http://www.leohans.com


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Marcus Moore
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 3:17:11 pm

Except for Logic. Regardless of the fact that Logic9 was a port from the boxed version, Logic was on sale in the appStore for almost 2 years before Logic Pro X was released- for the same price. Logic Pro 9 disappears, Logic Pro X is there.

Although I think we all understand what it means, I think the 10.1 moniker is confusing us all as to how big an update this will be. 10.1 will be no more or less significant that FCP 5 to FCP6 to FCP7.

I think the banners on the appStore will make it very clear its a new version of the software- and those who are interesting in it will have little confusion about what they're looking for.



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Marcus Moore
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 2:36:21 pm

I think the most obvious scenario is this-

If you own X, after 10.1 comes out there will be a new application called Final Cut Pro X with a $299 price tag.

If you don't own X, then you see exactly the same thing.

If you're machine doesn't meet the specs for the new FCPX, it will tell you. I don't think they'll let people download the old version after 10.1 is released. Unless you already purchased it, I don't think you can still download Logic Pro 9.

If you downloaded X originally, but were on an old version and wanted to update to 10.0.9 even though 10.1 was out, you can still do that thru purchase history. And if Apple needed to, they could push out an update to the 10.0.9 version the same way, as 10.0.10.



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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 4:10:49 am

I'm sure there will only be one FCPX version for sale on the app store but we may see the same system the IOS App Store implemented with IOS 7 - if you have an older IOS device you are now told that the current version won't run and are asked if you would like to download the last compatible version instead.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Marcus Moore
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 2:15:52 pm

I find that highly likely.



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David Chapman
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 2:56:45 pm

Another interesting point: In the purchased tab, the application is listed as Final Cut Pro. Of course 10.0.9 won't be available in the store once 10.1 comes out and the only way to download 10.0.9 is through the purchased page, but I was thinking you couldn't differentiate the two. These are the scenarios...

1. FCPX 10.1 will be a normal update to 10.0.9 users (not paid)
2. FCPX 10.1 will be called Final Cut Pro X and exist as a new app replacing Final Cut Pro (of course the page displays Final Cut Pro X currently, but in the store search and purchased pages it's listed as Final Cut Pro.

#2 Seems very confusing. I'm also curious if Apple's new "Pro" campaign will allow new Macbook Pro and Mac Pro customers to download (and own) all of the Pro apps. Aperture, Final Cut Pro, etc.

David Chapman
Creative Director, Graceway Media/Igniter Media
Dallas, TX


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Marcus Moore
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 3:26:50 pm

I think this whole free Pro apps with free hardware thing is way out of left field.

They can't do it exclusively for the MacPro, cause who's to say someone buying a base model MacPro isn't spending LESS money than someone buying a completely maxed out rMPB or iMac? What will those people think? They're getting screwed.

The only way it works is if Apple just decides to make all their Pro offerings free, and I think there's basically no chance of that.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 6:44:56 pm

[Marcus Moore] "They can't do it exclusively for the MacPro, cause who's to say someone buying a base model MacPro isn't spending LESS money than someone buying a completely maxed out rMPB or iMac?"

Some of us may believe that the base level MacPro will be more than a BTO iMac or rMBP.

Hmm, I can buy a maxed out iPad and get iWorks free which costs more than a MacMini which I'd have to pay for iWorks (not counting web implementation). I know, not the same thing but...

I think Apple is changing things around at the moment as they are doing with iWorks free download for iOS and free web version of iWorks for both Mac and Windows.

Apple's been known to break patterns.



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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 11:29:48 pm

At the end of the day Apple are in the hardware business. They provide FCP because it fits the creative demographic they tend towards and because it only runs on OSX and locks you into the hardware. Apple will have no issue at all with a new version of FCPX requiring you to upgrade your computer to use it. I'm sure they'd prefer it.

As a result any and all ideas in this thread a very possible, just some more likely than others. Apple make the rules as far as the App Store goes so they can pretty much do whatever they want with the pricing, upgrading, etc.

I can't see any reason that a new Mac Pro might not come with FCPX & Motion pre-installed if they want to give it away as a bonus.

There's also no reason they can't look at your App Store account and have the store show you a cheaper discount price for the new version if you already own the current version.

I guess we'll see in a week or three :-)

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 16, 2013 at 11:33:38 pm

[Jeff Kirkland] "There's also no reason they can't look at your App Store account and have the store show you a cheaper discount price for the new version if you already own the current version."

It's Apple's store and they can make whatever rules they want, but currently there are rules that prevent upgrade discounts in their App Stores.




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Marcus Moore
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 17, 2013 at 12:10:12 am

[Craig Seeman] "Some of us may believe that the base level MacPro will be more than a BTO iMac or rMBP."

While I don't expect Apple to make a super-cheap version of the MacPro, I DO think there'll be one available for under $4,000 which is what a topped out iMac runs. I'm more inclined to believe the entry level MacPro will be about $3,500, which is just a hair above the $3,449 price of a top 'o the line rMBP.

Apple can always throw us curves, but you're likely to be more right than wrong if bet on them staying the course.

We shall see... (hopefully soon!)



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Craig Seeman
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 17, 2013 at 1:19:03 am

[Marcus Moore] "I'm more inclined to believe the entry level MacPro will be about $3,500"

The number I'm guessing as well. I think they'll be a 6 and 8 core models along with the 12 core we know of. It'll be interesting to see the AMD FirePro GPU variations. They'll be size options with the PCIe SSD as well.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 17, 2013 at 2:48:22 am

[Marcus Moore] "I DO think there'll be one available for under $4,000 which is what a topped out iMac runs. I'm more inclined to believe the entry level MacPro will be about $3,500, which is just a hair above the $3,449 price of a top 'o the line rMBP."

I think they have to have one there or it will die fairly quickly. Its not geared to take on the upper end of the workstation market, so it has to hit the center to lower end of that market with a little extra oomph. And its design and portability suggest that they know that. So yeah, I think somewhere between 3200 and 3800 for a quad-core, and 3800 and 4200 for a hexa-core. And then the whole thing probably goes up to about 15,000--18,000, fully built, but I don't think they'll sell a lot of those.


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Michael Benton
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 19, 2013 at 6:19:43 am

My guess:

1: they will be charging for the upgrade.
2: 10.09 will not be available for purchase any longer and will be updated for bug fixes or major issues if/as needed for awhile.
3: New purchasers will only be able to buy 10.1
4: It will always be called FCP X but . . .

5: They will do the upgrades just like they have done with OS X by using a naming convention to differentiate them.

They could be pretty creative using names like historical Oscar winning Editors, Movies, or Directors. Maybe something like names of historical video technologies like cameras or film stock or tools, etc.

How about historical movie theaters.

Ex. - FCP X Tivoli (10.1)


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Eric Silva
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 19, 2013 at 3:38:08 pm

If Final Cut Pro will come out a new version (FCP 11) then everyone would have to pay for the update ($299). But if it is Final Cut Pro X (10.1), should still be a free upgrade or just pay half price. Because, it would be a rip-off if Apple charge us $299 with the same FCPX not FCP 11.If Final Cut Pro coming out 11 version and the features of it, more likely and worth it $299, I'll buy it.


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Steve Connor
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 19, 2013 at 5:51:01 pm

I'll be happy to pay for a major feature upgrade, as I was with FCP Classic. Hopefully it will be released soon

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Speculating whether FCPX 10.1 be a paid update?
on Oct 19, 2013 at 7:39:47 pm

That's a bit like saying OSX 10.9 should be free because they didn't call it OS 11. And $299 is already half the price of an FCP classic upgrade.

The initial purchase price is lower but with the trade-off that a next version release is a new purchase. Fair enough. My initial $299 investment in FCPX has paid for itself hundreds of times over and I'm fairly certain the same will happen with 10.1 whatever it costs.

I guess we'll see soon enough if 10.1 has enough features to make it worthy of an upgrade fee.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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