FORUMS: list search recent posts

Interesting email

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Bret Williams
Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 12:28:32 am

Got this from color grading central just now:

Bret,

A professional editing and grading feature is
missing in Final Cut Pro X.

Yet it is standard in AVID Media Composer, Adobe
After Effects & Adobe Premiere Pro CC.

What is this feature?

Don't want to say quite yet.

But it's coming to FCP X and I'll be showing a sneak
peek of it next week!

I wanted to let you know before heading off for
the weekend :)

Cheers,
Denver Riddle
Color Grading Central


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 12:32:23 am

Built-in curves?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 1:51:59 am

Probably. But the idea that he's showing a sneak peek of it next week would either mean it's authorized by Apple or he's breaking his NDA. I think things are ramping up. With GM of MACERICKS out and the phone and ios7 in the bag, X is on its way.


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 2:05:41 am

I received this email as well.

I am so looking forward to Color grading improvement in FCPX.

Somehow I doubt he's breaking an NDA. It's good that Apple is doing this to build up the anticipation.



Return to posts index

Jeff Kirkland
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 2:32:42 am

I took it as meaning a new plugin coming to FCPX..

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 2:51:19 am

You very well may be right. But the way he phrases it is poorly chosen if that's the case. He says it's a feature that's missing in X, and that feature is coming to X, implying it won't be missing anymore. A grey area. But if it's a plugin, then it's still missing. Unless you buy it. And seems like a bad time to release a plugin knowing that the feature might very well be IN X a few weeks to a month later. Leaving some people pretty pissed. Grading Central is more know for selling tutorials and looks. Surprised if he has gone down the plugin path.


Return to posts index


Marcus Moore
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 3:47:20 am

Yeah. It could be a plug-in.

Though I agree that setting up to launch something this close to a major update is weird- unless he's sure whatever he's demoing WON'T be a feature of the next update.

Also, unless there's another shoe to drop- I don't think Apple would allow anyone to preview FCPX before it's launched. At least, I can't remember them ever doing that before.



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 3:56:22 am

[Marcus Moore] "Also, unless there's another shoe to drop- I don't think Apple would allow anyone to preview FCPX before it's launched. At least, I can't remember them ever doing that before."

Not for standard feature updates that I know of but FCPX was "sneak peeked" at the Super Meet. Sans something like that and given this is a major upgrade... entirely new purchase... Apple might once again be engineering such peeks, this time through much more controlled circumstances.



Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 4:09:24 am

Yeah, but that was a sneak BY Apple, and at NAB, where they've previewed FinalCut updates many times since launch.

Denver previewing unannounced FCPX features is not the way Apple does things.



Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 4:40:41 am

Given Apple's past marketing issues with FCPX they may well change the way they do things.

Having somebody like Denver Riddle, who did the very popular free FCPX Color Grading tutorials, would have more creditability than someone inside Apple doing this.

If FCPX 10.1 is a paid upgrade Apple may want to do a bit of marketing and do it differently than the failed previous attempt.



Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 5:22:39 am

I emailed Denver, and he said sorry for any misinterpretation. It is a feature he will be introducing. So that's that.


Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 9:08:04 am

So that means plug-in? Or something he'll introduce in the next FCPX version?


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 12:41:50 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "So that means plug-in?"

If it is a plug-in, then he's got a long way to go to make it better than Hawaiki Color. The real issue with all complex plug-ins is performance due to the architecture. Only Apple can solve that.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 1:33:38 pm

The plug-in architecture really sounds like Apple should over-haul. Somewhat odd it is the way it is with an entirely new engine backing everything.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 1:56:48 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "with an entirely new engine backing everything."

Well, that's not really the case. There is no unique plug-in architecture for FCP X that is available to developers. The architecture is a tweaked FxPlug that only works for Motion. Then plug-ins are published as Motion templates to FCP X. Some developers find ways to enhance this, so it's less obvious that these are Motion effects, but everyone has to go through that overhead. This is different than FCP X's own native effects, like the Color Board. It doesn't appear to use the same methods; therefore, it is less encumbered and so operates with better real-time performance.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Erik Lindahl
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 5:34:31 pm

What I meant was that Apple has re-written FCP from the ground up. I'd imagine for a lot of people a sound plug-in architecture would be in the "what to fix" when doing an entirely new program as they have. FCPX has a new rendering pipeline developers should have access to but they don't. One would think custom panels is a given "obvious" when dealing with a new architecture but it seems like developes at the moment resort to quite odd hacks to make it work. Also one would imagine a very fast rendering pipe-line with low overhead. This however isn't the case really.

Seeing Apple has also made advances on feature like analyzing of audio and video on import there should be very deep "hooks" for developers to use these and further enhance them. Especially since Apples way seems to rely so much on third party now.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 5:40:57 pm

[Erik Lindahl] " One would think custom panels is a given "obvious" when dealing with a new architecture but it seems like developes at the moment resort to quite odd hacks to make it work."

This isn't permitted under the current architecture. In fact, the use of custom UIs for plug-ins was discouraged by Apple in direct communication with developers. Back in the early days, a number of them posted some of the verbiage on various forums. The fact that the interface permits floating overlays (HUDs), has allowed developers to create some useful and innovative workarounds, like those from Yanobox Moods, Hawaiki Color, CoreMelt SliceX, Nattress Curves and others.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 5:57:55 pm

Exactly my point. They've in a way failed at the starting line then. And it's not only the GUI that is a limitation, processing is way slower for third parties.

Maybe for FCPX2 or what ever it will be called they will fix this.


Return to posts index


Charlie Austin
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 6:08:31 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "Exactly my point. They've in a way failed at the starting line then"

Not really. I actually prefer a HUD if done well. There's nothing to stop anyone from creating one that fills up with anything they're able to fill it with, as long as it conforms to the X UI. What's the difference?

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 6:17:44 pm

Doesn't the HUD render to file if you don't remove it with some plug-ins? And doesn't the HUD show on your video-output? That's kind of a flawed design don't you think?

Well designed GUI's rarely need to resort to a HUD that doesn really fit anywhere. What could be good is if FCP supported a HUD on the computer display where the video out was the video-render only. That could indeed be flexible.


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 6:25:19 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "Doesn't the HUD render to file if you don't remove it with some plug-ins? And doesn't the HUD show on your video-output? That's kind of a flawed design don't you think?"

No idea, I've not seen that. We may be talking about 2 different things. There's the viewer overlay type, like slice X, and the floating window type, as seen all over Motion and in X for things like Keywords, BG tasks, some plugin controls, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 7:05:32 pm

Overlays in the viewer is what I was talking about.

A floating window or HUD is IMO in general a poor GUI-design. Sometime it can be useful but for I'd say as overlay info / toggles.


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 7:30:14 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "Overlays in the viewer is what I was talking about. "

Got it... FWIW, I've never used a plug in whose HUD had rendered to video. If I saw that I'd say it was broken, or horribly designed. :-)

[Erik Lindahl] "A floating window or HUD is IMO in general a poor GUI-design."

I agree when they're poorly implemented. The way they work in Motion is quite nice though IMO...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 10:43:05 pm

The issue with overlays being rendered to the timeline is something I read on one of the color correction plugins. One has to dissable the "HUD" before rendering.

Also a lot of plugins seem to have odd limitations at the moment. Digital Heavans plugins are limited to a set number of fonts due to limitations of the FCPX architecture. To me that's just "whaaaaaat?!"

A lot can clearly be addressed in this area for a so calle "next gen editor".


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 6, 2013 at 12:12:04 am

[Charlie Austin] "[Erik Lindahl] "Doesn't the HUD render to file if you don't remove it ..."
No idea, I've not seen that."


Yes, they are baked in. Also on exported output.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 6, 2013 at 1:00:59 am

For color correction or something? That sucks. Not the case with Slice-X ..

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 6, 2013 at 1:06:11 am

[Charlie Austin] "For color correction or something?"

Nattress Curves, Hawaiki Color, others.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Andy Mees
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 6, 2013 at 7:05:54 am

He was courting FxPlug developers (on the Apple Pro Apps Dev list) a few months ago .. sounds like it's been fruitful.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 12:37:07 pm

[Bret Williams] "He says it's a feature that's missing in X, and that feature is coming to X, implying it won't be missing anymore."

Color wheels?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 1:36:30 pm

Tracks?


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 3:36:55 pm

Nooooooo!!!!!!!



Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 3:46:44 pm

[Marcus Moore] "Nooooooo!!!!!!!"

I suspect there might well be "old" features in the next release that Apple puts back, in response to customer feedback. They've certainly had plenty of time to re-assess missing features that some of us might consider to be design flaws. I doubt tracks will be one of these. Doing so would be admitting they made a drastic mistake. I'm NOT saying it is a mistake, but regardless, that's very un-Apple-like.

Adding back tracks would be equivalent to putting extrusions back on the iOS7 icons ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 4:00:11 pm

Indeed. And I don't think they'll do it. The issue is that putting tracks back means dropping the magnetic timeline AND connected clips. They're all interconnected. And I DO NOT see going back to tracks as an improvement.

The only thing that bothers me about the timeline as it stands is it's lack of a hierarchical/organizational visual structure. And as I've said many times before, I think that can be managed quite handily with Roles.



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 4:16:20 pm

More likely would be significant improvement in Roles to better handle some of the organizational functions people keep insisting they need tracks for.

For me, I'd like to see "Roles targeting" while editing just as one might do with tracks. In addition, the ability to select a Role and "treat" all the clips in that Role. In other words Roles as a selection feature. Yet another might be the ability to display Roles linearly. Select a Role or a number of Roles to look at them in a horizontal layout. This would only be to display much as one can now select a Role and see them all highlighted. This would have no impact on the current timeline function at all.



Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 4:53:27 pm

[Craig Seeman] "significant improvement in Roles to better handle some of the organizational functions people keep insisting they need tracks for."

I'd like to see that too. That and fixing bugs, which I'm sure Apple are aware of, would be really nice, and leverage the relatively untapped power of Roles vs. tracks. FWIW, the more I mess with them, I'm finding that secondary storylines replace most of the functionality of tracks. With the added benefit of only being there when you need them. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with to enhance Roles for visual organization (and maybe bussing/mixing).

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 7:39:43 pm

Just for gods sake do it a chunk better than Motion does keyframes.

Opening a smaller window with some virtual role/tracks with tiny clickables would drive me crazy.

Remember, higher "retina" displays give the designers the ability to do small interface elements, which work great when you have bunches of screen real-estate - but when you want to work on the same project on a 15" laptop - those small but crystal clear UI objects drive anyone not possessing "eagle eyes" totally nuts.

I love motion, but every time I open the keyframe display and have to spend much time trying to click and drag the hundred little keyframe targets - or when I try to do keyframing inside the storyline keyframe disclosure window - I find myself "sighing" a lot.

Oh well.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 7:43:52 pm

[Bill Davis] "or when I try to do keyframing inside the storyline keyframe disclosure window - I find myself "sighing" a lot."

Wait... did you just say something critical of FCPX? :-0 I kinda like the keyframe pop up window thingy, though it could certainly be enhanced. Maybe if you could just let go of the old way of doing it you'd get it! ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 9:45:22 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Wait... did you just say something critical of FCPX? :-0 I kinda like the keyframe pop up window thingy, though it could certainly be enhanced. Maybe if you could just let go of the old way of doing it you'd get it! ;-)
"


Weird, I was doing a working Saturday inside, while Arizona is AMAZING outside today - building the X database for the Rocky Mountain Emmy Awards live event show reel - and I find virtual snark juice all over my screen?

Gotta be careful not to screw up any of the 120 submission video clips (in half a dozen different formats from Flash to Unwrapped MPEG and all manner of raster sizes!)

Cuz that would be bad.

Note to the TV stations of the western US... Flash? Really?

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 10:45:12 pm

After Effects does key framing good or even great. Apple could learn from them (so could Adobe in Premier :)).


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 6, 2013 at 10:56:47 pm

Really? I actually prefer how keyframes are handled in Motion vs AE- it's one of the reasons I started using Motion more and more in the last few years.

I'd be quite happy if Motion's keyframe window was ported over to FCPX- maybe there's a better way, but that would certainly be a step up from what we have.

And I think there comes a point where it's impossible to have a complex interface that doesn't suffer on smaller screens. I don't see how it's possible for one layout to make the maximum use of a 27" display and at the same time be optimized for something 15".



Return to posts index

David Mathis
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 3:46:14 pm

[Bret Williams] "Tracks?"

Count me in! That magnetic timeline can be a real pain at times. Would also like to see the color wheels brought back. Apple did re-invent the wheel only it became a square. Curves would also be very much welcome. Something that Motion is lacking as well.


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 4:01:16 pm

[Bret Williams] "Tracks?"

LOL. Not gonna happen. They'd give it a light grey interface before they'd do that. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 5:36:48 pm

Yes please, given it won't happen.

I don't see why "tracks" and the magnetic time-line can't just co-exist. But it's been discussed before to have "role lanes" in conjunction with the magnetic timeline.


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 5:57:33 pm

They key is that in the magnetic timeline, when primary storyline elements are moved around, connected clips need to be able to shift up and down as potential collisions occur.

A track is a static element, where you put all dialogue on Track 1, sound effects on Track 2 and 3 for example. If you were to allow connect clips to jump across tracks, track assignments would loose all meaning as people currently use them. Tracks are really just a manually assigned form of metadata.

I think there's a very direct comparison between keywords in the Event Browser and Roles in the Project timeline.

Where in legacy you put clips about clowns into a bin called clowns, so that you knew they had clowns in them. In X, you assign the keyword clowns to footage, and an organizing keyword collection called clowns is automatically created.

I believe the same thing would work for Roles. So that any clips assigned with the Role SFX would be grouped together in a horizontal Role Collection in the timeline. Unlike a track, which is 1 audio layer deep, a Role Collection could be several clips stacked on top of one another.

I've tried to exposing this many times. I'm sure a visual would be helpful.



Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 6:03:23 pm

Yes, this is exactly what I'd want. "Collected Tracks" or "Role Collections". This would sort out vertical nightmare in sequences currently and being able to have better control over everything in general - even more powerful than simple one layer tracks.


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 6:13:25 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "Yes, this is exactly what I'd want. "Collected Tracks" or "Role Collections"."

This is exactly what Logic X has done with "Track Stacks". I'd be surprised if The X folks weren't looking at this type of thing. Whether it shows up in the next version or not, something like it is hopefully on their radar. God knows they've had enough requests for a feature like that. :-)


EDIT: The only "problem" with any Role visual grouping in a timeline, is how to deal with multichannel clips with multiple Roles, and/or Roles that are components of Video clips in a storyline. It's doable, but I don't thinks it's gonna be easy to have not have it end up as some big kludge. That may be why we haven't seen it yet...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 9:48:03 pm

So who's goinna print up the...

"FCP-X - We don't need no stinkin' tracks"

T-shirts for NAB next year?

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 5, 2013 at 9:55:37 pm

[Bill Davis] "So who's goinna print up the...

"FCP-X - We don't need no stinkin' tracks"

T-shirts for NAB next year?"


LOL... I recommend customink.com :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Jari Innanen
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 10, 2013 at 7:02:53 am

It's a LUT Utility Plugin:






Return to posts index

Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 10, 2013 at 3:13:48 pm

So apparently it's a 3D LUT effect that Denver Ridle is working on.







Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Interesting email
on Oct 10, 2013 at 3:26:30 pm

Nice. Should IMO be built in.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]