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Bill Davis
Live tomorrow night...
on Sep 24, 2013 at 8:44:35 pm

Just because I said I'd post it here...

Tomorrow night is my "live to the web" FCP-X users group meeting.
Starts at 7pm Mountain Time (10pm EST)

AJA's Jeffery Way and Tery Williams are our special "in studio" live guests.

Entire agenda is on the group website at AZFCPUG.org.

Hope its interesting for some.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Live tomorrow night...
on Sep 24, 2013 at 9:02:36 pm

Maybe you should get the group listed on Apple's site.
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/resources/communities.html

BTW many of the former FCP user groups are now no longer FCP(S) specific.



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Bill Davis
Re: Live tomorrow night...
on Sep 24, 2013 at 10:13:59 pm

[Craig Seeman] "BTW many of the former FCP user groups are now no longer FCP(S) specific."

And there's the rub.

We're kinda going the opposite direction. There's SO MUCH to explore and learn about X, that the groups who are doing content on everything from iMovie to Premier to camera shootouts - just can't focus enough on the needs of those who wish to learn more about FCP-X specifically, IMO.

So that's where I'm headed.

This webcast will be about X top to bottom.

We'll surely compare and contrast other platforms and software but there will be absolutely NO "other platform bashing" while I'm involved.

I just have too little time in life to run a thing trying to be everything for everyone.
So this will be just be a place to immerse ones brain in all things X - for a couple hours once a month.

Hopefully it won't get so complex that I can't personally sustain it financially. And maybe people will like it enough to support it via internally generated sales or donations. We'll see in time. Right now, it's just an experiment. If it's valuable, maybe people will want to keep it going. If not, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

And so it goes.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Live tomorrow night...
on Sep 25, 2013 at 2:07:17 am

[Bill Davis] "We're kinda going the opposite direction. There's SO MUCH to explore and learn about X, that the groups who are doing content on everything from iMovie to Premier to camera shootouts - just can't focus enough on the needs of those who wish to learn more about FCP-X specifically, IMO. "

Three thumbs up from me on that one. Personally I think there's a big need for FCPX specific user groups because it really takes that kind of focus to understand it's unique workflows. That should be evident by the challenges and misunderstanding people have in transferring skills from other NLEs to FCPX.



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Ronny Courtens
Re: Live tomorrow night...
on Sep 25, 2013 at 10:47:54 am

Bill, I think this is an excellent initiative and I agree with Craig: all thumbs up.

Having added this event to my calendar I can see it will start on Thursday morning 4 a.m. in my part of the world. So I will be watching you while sipping a strong cup of coffee (-:

- Ronny


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Live tomorrow night...
on Sep 25, 2013 at 8:24:42 pm

[Bill Davis] "And there's the rub.

We're kinda going the opposite direction. There's SO MUCH to explore and learn about X, that the groups who are doing content on everything from iMovie to Premier to camera shootouts - just can't focus enough on the needs of those who wish to learn more about FCP-X specifically, IMO.

So that's where I'm headed.

This webcast will be about X top to bottom. "


I'll miss it due to work but in your heart know that I'll be heckling you the whole time. ;) Will it be available for streaming/download after the event is over?

On a more serious note, I'm not surprised the already established groups branched out to cover other NLEs and it makes since that brand new groups, like yours Bill, have sprung up that focus only on X.




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Craig Seeman
Re: Live tomorrow night...
on Sep 25, 2013 at 8:36:35 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "On a more serious note, I'm not surprised the already established groups branched out to cover other NLEs"

If their objective was to maintain their membership they had to as much of the base was moving elsewhere. Unfortunately that didn't help those who wanted to learn this entirely new NLE which also involved exploring new workflows.

While MC and PPro have a history of experience to draw from, everyone looking at FCXP were grappling with a "new paradigm" and had no place to go for "shared group intensive." Normally a user group allows for people to share as they learn so others can benefit. It's hard for that to take place when a user group is divided between production, MC post, PPro post, FCPX post. This put FCPX users at a further disadvantage in the "NLE culture."

I do hope there's some movement in FCPX specific user group growth. I think it's badly needed.



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Live tomorrow night...
on Sep 25, 2013 at 11:02:33 pm

[Craig Seeman] "While MC and PPro have a history of experience to draw from, everyone looking at FCXP were grappling with a "new paradigm" and had no place to go for "shared group intensive." Normally a user group allows for people to share as they learn so others can benefit. It's hard for that to take place when a user group is divided between production, MC post, PPro post, FCPX post. This put FCPX users at a further disadvantage in the "NLE culture.""

I'm sure as FCP X gains more traction more groups will pop up and more time will be spent on it w/existing groups. For groups original built on FCP (like LAFCPUG) I'm sure their attendance would've dropped to unsustainable levels if they focused only on X as there just wasn't enough interest in X in LA to sustain a user group that size.

That's one of the cool things about user groups is how grass roots they are. If there's sufficient need people will come together and make it happen.




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David Eaks
Re: Live tomorrow night...
on Sep 25, 2013 at 11:19:47 am

Add a couple more thumbs up to the FCPX specific user group!

Could you create a shared iCal Calendar that we can subscribe to (or be invited to)? It would be great to have these events automatically added to all my devices through the cloud, then maybe I won't miss as many (like so many of the moviola events I've missed, as one example).


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William Davis
Re: Live tomorrow night...
on Sep 25, 2013 at 2:18:51 pm

Hey Bill-

The "other" FCP-centric Bill Davis will be there (virtually) too. Looking forward to it!

Bill


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Craig Seeman
Live TONIGHT
on Sep 25, 2013 at 4:41:36 pm

Noticing there's no hyperlink in this thread to the webcast so I'm adding it here

http://azfcpug.org/livewebcast/

And directly to Livestream
http://new.livestream.com/accounts/5442265/azfcpug



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Ronny Courtens
Re: Live TONIGHT
on Sep 26, 2013 at 3:58:42 am

Just watched the show and I liked it. Thank you, Bill.

- Ronny


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Craig Seeman
Re: Live TONIGHT
on Sep 26, 2013 at 4:24:38 am

I think we now have the virtual FCPX User's Group for those who don't have a local FCPX group.



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Mark Dobson
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 7:56:32 am

Congratulations to Bill and the AZFCPUG on a really slick presentation. Here in the UK it rolled out at 4am and I think I stayed awake.

Look forward to further episodes that drill a bit deeper into FCPX


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David Eaks
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 8:08:36 am

I wasn't able to attend due to vacation activities. Will it be posted for on demand viewing? Doesn't look like it has been posted on the livestream page.


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Bill Davis
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 3:19:11 pm

Thanks to all who watched, it was fun to do. Last night was our first foray into LiveStream after two tests on a less robust CDN.. I'm still trying to figure out the best show structure and workflow - since what works best for the live group isn't necessarily what works best for the web audience and vice versa. Just posting the show capture without massaging it is kinda silly, since who wants to watch 10 minutes of a prize raffle that happened in Arizona months ago?

It IS really cool to be able to reach the whole world with live video from anywhere. But being able to do something isn't the same as being able to do it well, so it's a learning curve. Hopefully, every month we'll improve. Was delighted to hear from the web team that it seemed as easy last night for Remy in Belgium to interact live via the Livestream social side chain during the show as someone down the street. That was something we hadn't managed before. (and I'm so appreciative, Remy that you got up at 4am local to watch, thanks!).

I also know it's a risk doing so much basic stuff up front rather than just concentrating on the latest and greatest features and news about X, but if downstream, if I can build a solid archive as "persistent channel content" in my FCP-X Project Library, I should be able to simply ammend and refresh it as FCP-X evolves. That's the thinking, anyway.

So much to think about in this brave new on-line and on-demand world.

But evolve or perish, I guess.

Anyway, thanks for the eyeballs and comments, much appreciated.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 4:09:41 pm

As some may or may not know I'm neck deep into live streaming (It's part of my business) so I have lots of questions and thoughts about this.

For a time Ned Soltz and I were live streaming the MoPictiv (formerly NYCFCPUG) meetings. We were using Original Livestream, Sony EX1, Teradek Cube, Wirecast. With Wirecast Desktop Presenter we were grabbing the presenter's computer (Keynote or PowerPoint as well as software demos).

Care to mention the tech you were using?

BTW I think this is an important subject because the "virtual" FCPX User Group would give people someplace to participate live where they have no local FCPX specific user group. There's also the potential to bring in presenter via Skype and project that locally while "simulcasting" it live.



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Ronny Courtens
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 4:52:25 pm

I have appreciated the webcast and I don't regret getting up at 4 a.m. to watch it. It was indeed fun interacting with Brad and some people I know from the forums while watching the presentation.

If I may Bill, I would like to suggest one thing for the webcast: when you demoed the multicam or when you talked about the keyer all we saw was the FCPX timeline for the multicam or a green screen clip in the browser for the keyer, but we did not see the multicam or the keyer at work. As both these features are among the many things where FCPX really excels it would have been better to see them in action.

I think it is your intention to go deeper into features in coming shows, and when you do this please show FCPX in action because actually showing how easy and yet deeply things can be done in FCPX is what will convince even more people to start using it seriously. It also will attract more viewers to your webcast when people hear they really can see FCPX at work instead of just getting information about what it can do.

Just my 2 eurocents, and looking forward to the next webcast.

- Ronny


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Bill Davis
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 5:49:41 pm

[Ronny Courtens] "If I may Bill, I would like to suggest one thing for the webcast: when you demoed the multicam or when you talked about the keyer all we saw was the FCPX timeline for the multicam or a green screen clip in the browser for the keyer, but we did not see the multicam or the keyer at work. As both these features are among the many things where FCPX really excels it would have been better to see them in action."

Truly, thank you for the "note", and YES, YES, YES, I agree.
Honestly, this was partially just about time. I had more prep time on my first presentation, and realized for the last one, I'd essentially have to do it "live" in real-time and so I did a much poorer job of hitting many points I should have made. Crafting content that's tight and doesn't miss too much - isn't easy!

I will note, that to my surprise and delight, the Music Video piece got the most "after show" comments at the live meeting from people who were absolutely blown away that in X you can work both above and below the primary. Even people who have been using it for months seemed to have NO concept of that.

You never know what a particular user will or won't know - and might find to be a hugely important idea for them to see in action, even if its something you and I take for granted.

Another reason I'm pushing so hard to broaden the teaching base of the show to beyond just how *I* do things.

But truly, thanks for the feedback. Feedback is crucial at this stage. I still don't quite know what the show "should" be. All live? Partially live with pre-taped inserts? Should I present primarily to the web audience as host (what I tried last night) or work more to the live audience and just let the camera "observe the meeting"?

All sorts of plusses and minuses involved in each. But with every show, I can push a few more things into either the "do more of this" or "wow, don't ever do THAT again!" column.

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Dave Gage
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 5:09:02 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I'm neck deep into live streaming (It's part of my business) so I have lots of questions and thoughts about this."

Craig and Bill Davis,

(I'm sorry I wasn't able to make it, I hope it will be archived online to view.)

I'm also involved with live streaming, although not to large crowds, just small groups of website members, but I also have problems and questions about this.

Bill mentioned using LiveStream. I've been using Adobe Connect with lots of issues and will likely try a trial of GoToMeeting in the near future. Fortunately, I'm always in the same "studio" to shoot (a back room of my house), so most of my issues are less complex, but I do have some hardware issues I'd like to discuss.
--

Up to this point, I've been using my Quad i7 17" MBP built-in FaceTime HD camera and mic which works "okay". I don't own a stand-alone video camera that the Mac will see, but I am considering buying a Logitech 920 webcam/mic to see if it works better for me.

The main problem with the built-in camera is the lack of controls built-in by Apple, i.e. white balance, color, contrast, exposure, saturation, etc. So, I've tried two 3rd party solutions for this: Webcam Settings, and iGlasses. Both have problems.

Anyway, I'd love to discuss this more, possibly in a new thread or offline. I can be reached directly at webmaster3 (at) harmonicalessons (dot) com if that works better than posting. And I do realize that it's boorish and against web etiquette, but I could even talk on the phone about this. I won't post the number here, but I could email it to you.

Thanks,
Dave


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Craig Seeman
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 5:50:09 pm

[Dave Gage] "Bill mentioned using LiveStream. I've been using Adobe Connect with lots of issues and will likely try a trial of GoToMeeting in the near future."

It seems that AC and G2M are geared towards presenting PowerPoint style presentations. Maybe the technology has changed but the display frame rates seem on the low side. On the other hand the screen display resolutions are high. You can do screen display on Livestream with their Livestream Producer's screengraber or Wirecast's Desktop Presenter. Wirecast's Desktop Presenter allows sending screens or windows across a local area network whereas Livestream's Producer doesn't do that.

[Dave Gage] "Up to this point, I've been using my Quad i7 17" MBP built-in FaceTime HD camera and mic which works "okay". I don't own a stand-alone video camera that the Mac will see, but I am considering buying a Logitech 920 webcam/mic to see if it works better for me."

Blackmagic Ultrastudio MiniRecorder has both HDMI and HD-SDI input to Thunderbolt for $140. Allows for virtually any consumer or professional video camera as source. I've used Logitech C910 and it works great for "host cam" if you're right in front of the computer but not good if you're shooting a speaker at the front of a room.

[Dave Gage] "So, I've tried two 3rd party solutions for this: Webcam Settings, and iGlasses. Both have problems."

I've used both as well and I much prefer Webcam Settings. It works like a real webcam driver in that you actually control the camera internals.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/webcam-settings/id533696630?mt=12

Again, that said, using the BMD MiniRecorder is the way to go to use a real camera.

[Dave Gage] "Anyway, I'd love to discuss this more, possibly in a new thread or offline."

Maybe on the COW Web Streaming forum so others can benefit.
http://forums.creativecow.net/webstreamingaudiovideo



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Dave Gage
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 8:30:00 pm

[Craig Seeman] "
[Dave Gage] "Anyway, I'd love to discuss this more, possibly in a new thread or offline."

Maybe on the COW Web Streaming forum so others can benefit.
http://forums.creativecow.net/webstreamingaudiovideo"


Craig,

Since this is off-topic here, I did start a couple of new posts in the "COW Web Streaming forum".
http://forums.creativecow.net/webstreamingaudiovideo
(I wasn't aware of the existence of this forum. Great, another forum to follow.)

Thanks,
Dave


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Bill Davis
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 5:12:30 pm

What tech? Too much at present!

Hardware wise for the Web, one manned and 2 robotic cameras fed via HD-SDI to a new Panasonic digital switcher. Audio was two wireless bodypacks plus a wireless handheld to a mixer - all feeding a TriCaster via phone line to LiveStream. Both the switcher and the TriCaster could take the inputs and do the switching, but that means one brain doing cameras, audio and web output, plus handling the social media interactions. Too much, IMO.

Then there's the live room audience stuff. A separate audio mix and speakers and video projection from the content laptops.

Next month we add a mix minus audio side chain and a digital hybrid to take a live phone feed, if needed.

During the AJA presentation last night, I was looking at our Livestream on Jeff Way's iPad, and watching the delay involved. not bad, really, but FAR from allowing a remote presenter to contribute and monitor, as I expected.

What I'm learning is that like many things in this era, it's actually amazingly easy to get up to mediocre performance with tech stuff. And then the curve gets REALLY steep to try to get beyond mediocre.

Right now, I'm using the traditional production tools and processes I've spent a career learning, but I also know that these may not be the best ones for the long run. But you really can't figure that out unless you do the hard, hard work of trial and error.

And so it goes.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Bill Davis
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 6:02:49 pm

Add on note about the tech.

One real hassle is scaling the laptop outputs for both the web AND simultaneously for live projection. Unless you're rich enough to have a projector that does 1920x1080 native, you have to do what we did and insert something like a Folsom scaler to take the HD web feed and "dumb it down" so that we could put it on a VGA projector for the live audience.

I think poor Brad spend a very nervous 45 minutes during show setup trying to get the live room screen AND the web feed both locked down and working right. Every time we turned around, the audience projector would be showing one or two color channels, but not the entire RGB signal. THAT was fun.

Also I was using a 15" Macbook Pro and Tery Williams from AJA had a 17" model - so we also had two different native original aspect ratios to feed the scaler!

It's this kind of digital plumbing that gets truly NUTS when you do a show like this.

Kinda why I did those two "unannounced test" shows - just to start to understand where things might go wrong, before I let much of anyone know we were doing this.

Broadway's got that right. Open the show out of town so that you can fix what's wrong before EVERYONE's watching - balanced against test things to death and NEVER go live. At some poing, perfect or not, you've just got to push the "send" button.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 6:21:29 pm

Granted there are quality advantages to all that hardware but you're certainly aware of the complexity disadvantages.

I'd use Wirecast Desktop Presenter and target the screen or windows and let Wirecast scale. The quality may not be as good and they'll be a slight lag and you're installing this little utility on each presenter's computer so it has its on inelegance.

Would using Tricaster's iVGA helped?



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Craig Seeman
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 6:14:50 pm

[Bill Davis] "What tech? Too much at present!"

But do you want to simplify?

rMBP with two BMD MiniRecorders for your two HD-SDI inputs. Mixer with USB out into the rMBP. Of course the Tricaster works but I'm just thinking smaller simpler and even less expensive, especially for a user group.

[Bill Davis] "I was looking at our Livestream on Jeff Way's iPad, and watching the delay involved. not bad, really, but FAR from allowing a remote presenter to contribute and monitor, as I expected."

Send a switched feed back into Skype. Monitoring the live stream itself is useless for a remote presenter due to the lag and this is especially so when viewing an HTTP live stream as would be seen on an iOS device.



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Bill Davis
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 6:40:12 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Send a switched feed back into Skype. Monitoring the live stream itself is useless for a remote presenter due to the lag and this is especially so when viewing an HTTP live stream as would be seen on an iOS device.
"


We had a team of 4 doing the FOH video mix.

One Director/video switcher.
One Audio guy.
Linda, doing Social Monitor for Q&A.
And Brad doing the Webcasting.
So I presume I have to add another body and laptop to do a Skype connect?

What I "don't" want is the show needing to look more and more like NASA mission control!

I've seen "big budget" webcasts that look EXACTLY like that. 20 bodies or more sitting at long tables at laptops with everyone doing a specific job. That's exactly the model I DO NOT want to pursue.

So the question becomes what's the smallest crew footprint consistent with quality results?

I think the MOST important body is likely Audio. Even if you just have a web feed, an RF problem or mic with a failing battery can stop effective show to audience communication in it's tracks.

One person CAN do the video stuff - particularly with robo-cams like we're using and nothing fancy with the virtual switching - and I have to admit I'm a bit interested in the tech like Sony's new "all in one" Anycast rig - one box with the monitoring, switching AND web delivery all in a single portable unit. Combined with the proper LiveStream account that handles the social media stuff directly in the webcast window, that might allow a 2-person team to do a quality live to the web show.

But until I can find a way to make this kind of project even a very modest revenue generator, it's all theoretical.

Like many others, I've proved I can deliver a decent product at this point. Now I need to see if I can turn it into a sustainable enterprise.

I can do a few more "out of pocket" shows. But without revenue, it will eventually become just too much hassle to sustain.

Next month, if the audience grows, I'll have a story to tell potential sponsors. If it stays flat or doesn't gain traction, it's will become just an expensive hobby - and nobody I know has much use for one of those.

Time will tell.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Bob Woodhead
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 28, 2013 at 11:59:00 am

Bill, I've looked all over but couldn't find any links.... is there an archive of the 'cast available?

"Constituo, ergo sum"

Bob Woodhead / Atlanta
CMX-Quantel-Avid-FCP-Premiere-3D-AFX-Crayola
"What a long strange trip it's been...."


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Bill Davis
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 28, 2013 at 7:15:55 pm

Bob,

Not right now. I wasn't sure how to store and "re-broadcast" them prior to my swtich to LiveStream.

Now that I'm on LiveStream, they have an internal "storage" system for past shows. But I've got to find the time to clean up and post my prior shows.

I'll get there. But it's more unpaid time to fit around real work. (sigh)

I also don't know whether or not it makes sense to do something like Movieola is doing - the "day of game" broadcast is free, but archive access costs a couple of bucks a show. That way I can start at least a tiny steam of revenue.

Much to consider.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Bill Davis
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 6:19:06 pm

[Craig Seeman] "For a time Ned Soltz and I were live streaming the MoPictiv (formerly NYCFCPUG) meetings."

BTW, Craig, I didn't know that you know Ned. He and I go way, way back. Next time you see him definitely say Hi for me.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Live Last Night
on Sep 26, 2013 at 8:20:26 pm

I had no problem whatsoever with the technical side of the webcast. I'm a hopeless perfectionist myself but if the message is interesting I, and I think most people, can be extremely forgiving about the rest. Of course you can always do better but technically this went very, very well for a first live show and I must say in all honesty that you did a real good job presenting it.

On another forum I frequent real-life workflow breakdowns and videos of FCPX in action are the most watched topics. I am a major participant on two very popular FCP-centric forums. If you can incorporate live demos of FCPX at work in your webcasts I will not hesitate inviting everyone there to watch them.

- Ronny


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