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Interesting presentation....

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Charlie Austin
Interesting presentation....
on Sep 15, 2013 at 4:52:35 pm

Sampling Technology: Examining Noteworthy Innovations in Production & Post from Light Iron on Vimeo.



-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 15, 2013 at 5:40:05 pm

that was pretty funny - he intros it like he's about to give a ted talk, but basically that's an infomercial for their services.

Who hasn't heard about movi? or the c500? He's like, get ready, I'm about to blow your mind, then he lists off some good expensive gear that everyone has heard about, on a video for an artist I have to admit I hadn't heard of..

Also - I think everyone gets that X plays a really good game as keyword manager yada yada, but I'm really surprised he pushed that much post through it. the keyframing is atrocious, and as for it being plugin extensible, depending on what you're talking about, thats not really true. The effects architecture is crazily limited. the fact that you can't get a custom gui on screen even - what was that full on colour correction plugin that came out a while back - and then halfway through the sales video you realised that their GUI affected their own CC waveforms - what was that one? - because that was hilarious. there was a setting that almost totally turned the effect controls off so you could read the waveform monitors accurately? X has some ludicrous shortcomings in its effects architecture.

Also, the way he talked about the plug-in community, you'd swear no one was making plug-ins for any other system? Adobe is drowning in plug-ins, broadly speaking. And they've got an integrated market thing directly within premiere itself for footage (you can browse and download pond 5 stuff directly within your PPro project) and plugins now in CC - haven't used it mind you.

Aaanyway - that did basically sound like a guy desperately keen to be seen as a super duper revelations smart svengali for the future.
I got the strong sensation of smoke hitting my rear end.

I didn't totally buy it tbh. I think he's just another guy on the doorstep selling something.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 15, 2013 at 7:37:59 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I got the strong sensation of smoke hitting my rear end."

Fine,

Then articulate your reasoning behind why his central theme is incorrect.

Don't zero in on peripherals like "woo, the keyframing in X sucks"

His general theme is that theres a fundamental shift from what post used to be, to what it is becoming for the future, and that many practitioners of post are too stuck in established workflows to give new options a fair shake.

He gives examples of hardware and software approaches that were NOT options that existed a few years ago. And explains his reasoning about WHY fundamental industry changes require some new thinkin - including the painful jettisoning of much comfortable thinking that worked just fine in the past.

if your opinion is contrary - tell me why? Are you saying that post SHOULD NOT change so fast?
Are you arguing that more incremental change which gives more weight to the traditional post processes that you and I have built our careers upon up to this point better serve the industry than adopting more fundamental changes?

You've poked holes in the accessories to the argument. But I don't hear you poking many in the core of it.

What he got exactly right, IMO is that FCP-X was built for robust pre-pro and asset management FIRST - with practical modern editing a close second. And that's exactly what's got so many "editors" upset. Apple didn't properly do their obeisance to the alter of the timeline functions over all else.

It's the core of YOUR whole argument over the past year, IIRC.

What do we gain if your long held arguments are correct, that new tools and processes are less valid simply because they BREAK with the past too strongly to accommodate the comfort zones of historically trained editors?

His central theme was correct, IMO. Uncomfortable for many - you among them Aindreas. But correct none the less.

And was it a promo piece? Of course! Please explain to me why else would anyone do that much work and toss the result out on the internet? If it's not purely an ego play - there MUST be a defensible economic back end play - or it's not worth doing. Do you not understand basic business? Time being money - if you put TIME into creating something - and you're not an egomaniac - you should have a business back end play in mind, or you're just stroking your own ego.

The fact that it's got gear highlights from Canon and AJA and a promo for his own product makes it MORE valid in my estimation. At least he's not hiding the reason the video exists or his agenda.

It's to make a buck. And we all get to decide if his arguments are purely "push for money" based - or real.

And I'm having trouble understanding which of his core arguments you feel are fundamentally unreal.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 15, 2013 at 8:57:12 pm

[Bill Davis] "And explains his reasoning about WHY fundamental industry changes require some new thinkin - including the painful jettisoning of much comfortable thinking that worked just fine in the past."

But - does he actually do that Bill? I know he said that there was an issue with people unable to accept change, but then he just showed a camera loads of people have heard of, 4k transport in stuff, the movi, bits of his music video, and FCPX. They are all good things. How does that amount to a thesis?

And where did he outline these failures in attitude? what was he talking about there? Not using the c500? not hiring the movi? because everyone I know is planning on hiring that thing the instant it is available. So say I cut and did post on this music vid (trust me there is a point, and that point is that I wanted to show off the video):






everyone go buy Goldheart Assembly's new album btw. Its great.

Do you think the director, who was also the shooter, would not have used the movi if it was available? He literally screamed the minute I showed him the movi video when it came out, and then started manically texting all his mates. At 15,000 purchase, day hire is going to be buttons on that thing.

Me and him put that video together for no money, it was entirely file based, and all the optics used were off neumann films that cost me 30 quid.

Anyone working right now, is using every single tool available that they can get their hands that they can afford. that video could afford one day borrowed greenscreen, some front projection, (which is murder to greenscreen, thank you keylight) his 5Dmk2, london snow, and me throwing jam at it for three days. Still, I did get to drop it off at abbey road for conforming. I took photos. I really did. And.. we failed the harding test.
the point is that there is less money than ever, none for music vids usually, and no one is ignorant of a single thing that can give them any edge.
4K proof of concept music videos with massive crews and ipad set review of footage are uncommon.

Its basically a bit much on his part to state that people don't get the current environment because they don't use a specific camera, or a specific editing system. It's hard to see how his argument amounted to more than that.

[Bill Davis] "IMO is that FCP-X was built for robust pre-pro and asset management FIRST - with practical modern editing a close second. And that's exactly what's got so many "editors" upset. Apple didn't properly do their obeisance to the alter of the timeline functions over all else."

ok - that is completely and in-arguably correct - and to be honest, I have serious, deep, increasing pangs for X's system of tagging. I think a lot of people are starting to stare at that tagging metadata system. It'll be really really interesting to see what the next release of X looks like. Particularly after the adobe crazy.

bottom line, I found the piece OTT - loads of us will wring anything we can out of the gear at hand. Editing software preference doesn't represent a luddite lemming instinct.

A lot of X is completely killer, (you should really check out some of premiere lately tho Bill, its getting so good incredibly fast - *turns and sheds a single tear*)
X is going to be, and is a completely successful editing system - it deserves to be, but not picking it doesn't amount to fear of the future brain damage eh? :)

in closing - if everyone could go to the creative cloud debate forum and gin up the posts about why X is going to eat premiere for breakfast because of the subscription carry on - that would be great. Bill just popped in a beauty, but the more the merrier.

http://www.adobe2014.tumblr.com

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Oliver Peters
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 15, 2013 at 7:47:34 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "but basically that's an infomercial for their services"

Agreed, though Michael is a very sharp guy. Good visionary skins.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "or the c500?"

That struck me as very odd, considering his company has made its "bones" doing films shot with RED and he's been a strong advocate for RED camera and workflow. Despite all the FCP X promotion, his investment has been in Quantel "heavy iron" to get the job done ;-) That's for conforming and grading of feature films.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 15, 2013 at 8:14:35 pm

[Oliver Peters] "his investment has been in Quantel "heavy iron" to get the job done ;-) That's for conforming and grading of feature films."

which brings me neatly to the 'what the hell do I know' part - he is a country mile out of my league - the last thing I invested in was a second hand monitor.
I just thought the piece was overdone with the portentousness of an industry unable to face the future because they weren't picking the right gear, or embracing X.

I just thought it was motivational futurist speaker overdone - and masked the fact that it was kind of basically selling gear workflow knowhow.

it was all that initial 'in the year 2025, 2025, if we are are still alive - will we all look back in shame at our lack of foresight'... and then it cut to him showing some gear, gear that a lot of people have heard of, and arguing for X as system citing things like plugins, which I think can be argued to be a pretty spotty argument?

that said I'm basically just carping from the cheap seats.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 15, 2013 at 10:13:42 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I think he's just another guy on the doorstep selling something."

I agree with ya there. And honestly, I didn't put this up because he talks about X, though some may see only that part... ;-) It was more his central point about how things are changing, and the resistance to said change in some quarters. It's really only in the past year that we consistently get feature elements from the studios on HDD rather than a bunch of tapes. IOW, the Titanic, on which I am a passenger (steerage), turns very slowly. The one interesting thing about X he brought up was at about 14:30.. How X is built as an asset manager that has a timeline VS a timeline that has an asset manager. Clearly, we're still in the process of discovering how that's gonna work out... ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 15, 2013 at 10:17:00 pm

[Charlie Austin] "How X is built as an asset manager that has a timeline VS a timeline that has an asset manager."

And Bill is calling his lawyer now about plagiarism ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 15, 2013 at 11:00:54 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Charlie Austin] "How X is built as an asset manager that has a timeline VS a timeline that has an asset manager."

And Bill is calling his lawyer now about plagiarism ;-)

- Oliver"


Hey!

After two solid years of posting, I may turn out that I got at least ONE "core concept" right very early in the fights!

I think I'll go pour myself a glass of something and celebrate!

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 15, 2013 at 11:45:39 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Charlie Austin] "How X is built as an asset manager that has a timeline VS a timeline that has an asset manager.""

but isn't it bananas interesting that that was the point always made about avid? or at least by certain bods in london? That FCP classic and Avid were an inverse? One had a lousy managed backend with a beloved open editor timeline, and the other had a perceived lousy front end with basically matchless asset management?

What apple choose to do, right now, with their primary editing timeline environment is entirely up to them - but anyone would be lying if they didn't admit to repeatedly looking at the asset organisation and tagging of that system. There's no way that people aren't. It's also maybe quite hard to replicate if it takes hold? It's a question of how hard apple want to defend the rest of the original, say brave, timeline thesis.

you'd have to think there is some kind of middle ground. there is a sea that is barely still moved from seven. Corpo seems to have woken up to the fact that as adobe license holders, they can now be, with premiere, basically edit ready for kind of nothing.
but, if true, and i really did hear it two separate times - one large post, one huge broadcast - the enterprise adobe CC deal offerings are apparently muddying that water like hell right now. Including with previously poster early adopters at large scale. Months' delaying intractable negotiations type thing both times. Weirdly similar tbh.

bar shilling for creative cloud FUD here, you might suspect adobe are hitting some problems. the tuesday investor guidance is meant to be bad.

so.. everyone ponder the next X release, and then maybe go post in the CC debate forum and freak them out please. We are offering free hot dogs.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Herb Sevush
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 16, 2013 at 4:48:49 am

What is possible I was that arrogant and pretentious at that age? Probably. I think it a good thing that I have no record of what I sounded like in my youth. I take it he likes the C500.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Ty Vann
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 16, 2013 at 3:37:31 pm

Nothing he's saying is new. But he's on point (which he makes with the ballsy certainty of a salesman) about the state of acquisition and post, and those who can't keep pace with the change.


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Dan Stewart
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 16, 2013 at 7:22:20 pm

I have no problem with enthusiastic youth (or old age).

But goddam I'm getting tired of people propagandising tech. I own Avid MC on a clapped out PC, FCPL on an old mac and a 2perf 35mm that sounds like a lawnmower but reams the Alexa in every available port. Mates have DSLRs of all flavours. And I'm happy! I pay my bills cutting mostly on Avid, occasionally (less and less) on FCPL. I can walk into any shop of any size and deliver the best possible film for the material given IMnotHO. Did it today for Comedy Central (on FCPL).

If FCPX is an assistants/corporate bureaucracy's wet dream then great. I dont give a shit about keywords. I need to KNOW the material in any case. If the job is big enough someone else can organise it. If not it's moot. I just need some rolls, bins and a solid cutter that can share storage and connect to a big decent colour screen.

If kids (and old men) want to go ON AND ON with the hard sell about how the latest shiny toy will make your film better then I hope they're enjoying themselves as much as it seems.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 16, 2013 at 9:10:42 pm

[Dan Stewart] "a 2perf 35mm that sounds like a lawnmower but reams the Alexa in every available port."

so that's a great sentence.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ty Vann
Re: Interesting presentation....
on Sep 16, 2013 at 10:39:44 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "[Dan Stewart] "a 2perf 35mm that sounds like a lawnmower but reams the Alexa in every available port."

so that's a great sentence."


great for S&M postproduction. No pain no gain?


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