FORUMS: list search recent posts

Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Travis Roesler
Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 1:29:22 am

I just want to get a general opinion here. I just bought a new MacPro... I'm thinking that I need to take advantage of it by virtue of upgrading my editing platform.

What is the general consensus here about upgrading to FCP X?

I hear a lot of mixed reviews.

Please let me know what you guys think.

---Trav


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 2:50:42 am

I think you wasted money buying a Mac Pro.


Return to posts index

Travis Roesler
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 2:52:10 am

Why?

I need the processing speed and power.

Windows is garbage.


Return to posts index


Andrew Kimery
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 3:03:04 am

Because a new Mac Pro (the black one shaped like a tube) is going to drop before the end of the year and most likely blow the doors off any Mac in terms of performance.

With regards to your original question, I'd grab the free 30-day trial, some tutorials and start kicking the tires. You are the only one that knows if FCPX will fit your needs.

I work in LA primarily with other peoples' gear so it's Avid and FCP Legend still for me until the shows/companies I typically work for start switching.




Return to posts index

Travis Roesler
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 3:18:40 am

I'm aware of the new mac pro coming out... from everything that I've read, it seems as though it's going to be ridiculously expensive. I was able to find a good refurb on the mac website, and I figured that I'd go for it.

That said, might not hurt to return the thing... I just really can't stand waiting, and when I'm ready to upgrade something, I'm just ready.

Either way, I have till the 22nd to return it, and I just might do that.

---Trav


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 3:33:14 am

If I were you I'd return it. The last thing you'd want is to be kicking yourself a month from now when the new MacPro comes out and discover it's not as expensive as has been "RUMORED", and comes with all the modern, forward looking I/O and will probably be THE poster-child machine for FCPX.

And FCPX will be changing as well- how much we don't know. But a big update is one the way around the same time. Buy FCPX now and you may have to buy it all over again in less than 2 months.



Return to posts index


Walter Soyka
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 3:37:29 am

[Marcus Moore] "If I were you I'd return it. The last thing you'd want is to be kicking yourself a month from now when the new MacPro comes out and discover it's not as expensive as has been "RUMORED", and comes with all the modern, forward looking I/O and will probably be THE poster-child machine for FCPX."

Not to mention that even a brand new Mac Pro today is essentially two years old already...

I do expect the top configuration will be expensive, but Apple has traditionally offered a range of prices/configurations.


[Travis Roesler] "Windows is garbage."

Why do you say that?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 4:45:01 am

Agreed. Just like with the current generation, I'll expect you'll be able to spend between $2,500 and close to $8,000 (if you were lazy about buying RAM from Apple)- especially if Apple releases 4K CinemaDisplays. Those things WILL NOT be cheap. Memories of the 30"CinemaDisplay which cost $2,600 at launch.



Return to posts index

Travis Roesler
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 3:38:56 am

Ok... You convinced me. I need to learn how to be patient.

I'll grab the FCP X trial and hope that the new one is released the day that expires.


Return to posts index


Bret Williams
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 12:31:13 pm

As well, an i7 iMac will outperform the MacPro for FCP X. And the MacPro you bought was released in 2010. It doesn't have thunderbolt or USB 3 or sandy or ivy bridge tech. The latter (sandy/ivy) is a major component of what X works off of. Plus the GPU. The GPU in a 2011 or 2012 i7 iMac is likely better than what came in the MacPro.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 3:40:25 am

Depending on your situation and where the market goes you may find some things to consider.

If you have other new Macs (MacBookPros etc) you'll find you'll need to buy Thunderbolt stuff for them and PCIe cards for the MacPro. You won't have as much device interoperability.

There's not likely going to be much R&D on the PCIe card side of things from hardware developers as they continue the shift to Thunderbolt.

The retiring MacPro are already using CPU technology from 2010 so they're already quite old. Some have found that for many tasks a new BTO iMac is competitive with some MacPros and even may exceed it in some cases. If you buy Thunderbolt peripherals for the iMac you'd be able to move them to a new MacPro later, something that would require purchasing a PCIe to Thunderbolt chassis otherwise.

Granted there are a few people who, for various reasons, the 2010/12 MacPro 12 Core is a reasonable choice as a powerful short term box but I don't think that holds true for a lot of people.



Return to posts index

Ronny Courtens
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 5:37:24 am

All good advice. I don't expect the new MacPro will be more expensive than any other high-end desktop, and it will be a killer machine for running FCPX and the other X pro-apps.

The new Final Cut Pro is absolutely worth learning. Just don't make the mistake many have made by just "playing around with it". It's a very deep professional application that requires some time to practice on. But once you understand how it works under the hood you will be surprised how powerful it is.

- Ronny


Return to posts index


Helge Tjelta
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 7:52:12 am

Buying a Mac Pro is always risky. There will always be new ones…

At least now we know there will be a new, but not when and to what price…

But you need to earn money until then, so if you need a macpro today, you buy it, but not the most expensive one. Earn some cash with it, then jump for the new one…

You can always wait for stuff, but you have to have some income in the meantime, not ?

:) Helge

Helge


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 12:48:58 pm

[Craig Seeman] "There's not likely going to be much R&D on the PCIe card side of things from hardware developers as they continue the shift to Thunderbolt."

That is a highly questionable statement.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 1:32:27 pm

[Herb Sevush] "[Craig Seeman] "There's not likely going to be much R&D on the PCIe card side of things from hardware developers as they continue the shift to Thunderbolt."

That is a highly questionable statement."


But you offer no reasoned refutation.
I doubt you'll see much in the way of Mac GPU cards for example.
It seems RED may be moving to GPU support as an alternative to Rocket.

Given Apple's penetration into the Post market, it seriously cuts into margins for many developers of cards. Any card that doesn't need 8x or 16x will probably have Thunderbolt versions.

One can look at companies like AJA and Blackmagic and see expansion of Thunderbolt devices.

The demand on the Windows side isn't going to change much but Apple dropping out of the PCIe card market has to be a major hit for some hardware developers... unless they develop for Thunderbolt.



Return to posts index


Marcus Moore
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 1:49:56 pm

I agree with Herb that until TB presents no narrowing of the funnel for expansion, PCIe will remain relevant.

Corning got the OK for their optical TB cables this week. Right now that just means longer usable lengths- but hopefully it will mean we'll see another big speed bump in Thunderbolt with the next revision in a year or two. I'm not sure what the next step is- if optical means they can jump right to the 100Gb/s that was originally talked about with Lightpeak, or if we have a couple more doublings in thru-put before we get there.

When everything can be outbound, the beefiest GPUs, RedRocketX cards- basically 16-lane. Then we can start talking about if PCIe has any relevance going forward.



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 2:23:03 pm

[Marcus Moore] "I agree with Herb that until TB presents no narrowing of the funnel for expansion, PCIe will remain relevant."

Unfortunately not on Mac. 8x or 16x PCIe card won't get you much on Thunderbolt even in a PCIe to Thunderbolt chassis. It's relevant for Windows. It's relevant for old MacPros which won't be a growth market.



Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 1:54:43 pm

[Craig Seeman] "But you offer no reasoned refutation."

Was waiting for you to ask.

[Craig Seeman] "I doubt you'll see much in the way of Mac GPU cards for example."

So what. The market for Windows graphics cards must be at least 4 times the size of the Mac market, if model types are any indicator.

[Craig Seeman] "Given Apple's penetration into the Post market, it seriously cuts into margins for many developers of cards. "

The Post markets impact on graphics card development I would imagine to be quite small, if not totally insignificant. Gamers push the market, CAD pushes the market, 3D modelling, most of which is not done on Macs, push the market.

[Craig Seeman] "Any card that doesn't need 8x or 16x will probably have Thunderbolt versions."

But GFX cards do require 8x and 16x. And Thunderbolts impact even on 4x and below is felt only on the Mac side of things. Thunderbolt is not exactly wowing them in PC land. The HP announcement being a good example - a PCIe card (those things that are not supposed to be developed any more) for a Tblt port, which leaves what, another 5 PCIe slots, or is it 7, to develop for.

[Craig Seeman] "One can look at companies like AJA and Blackmagic and see expansion of Thunderbolt devices."

Yes, new markets lead to new products. That doesn't mean the old markets have gone away.

[Craig Seeman] "The demand on the Windows side isn't going to change much"

Stop right there. How does that reconcile with your earlier statment:

[Craig Seeman]"There's not likely going to be much R&D on the PCIe card side of things from hardware developers as they continue the shift to Thunderbolt."

When the windows side of things is the majority of the PCIe market?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 2:26:05 pm

I'm speaking specifically to the Mac market.
With no PCIe base MacPros being sold there's not much incentive for any PCIe card developer to do anything for the Mac market whether its firmware or drivers.
There's plenty of reason to develop for Windows boxes.



Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 2:37:16 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I'm speaking specifically to the Mac market."

As an aside to the slowness of market penetration I went with my wife to the Apple store a few weeks ago, she bought a new Air and I was looking for an external drive for her and figured for sure I'd get a Tblt drive. There was one model for Tblt versus about 5 for USB3 and it cost 3 times as much, although to be fair it was twice the size. I was shocked at the lack of development for Tblt peripherals and this is 2 years after they came out.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 5:44:05 pm

I'm not doubting what you found at your store, but just so you know that's not indicative. My local Apple store is equal weighted TB and USB3 drives- from guys like Lacie, G-Tech, etc.; and in both desktop and portable configs. Most TB drives are coming with a cable now too, which they weren't to start with.



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 6:19:11 pm

There's actually not much reason for single drive systems on Thunderbolt compared to USB3. You'd more likely wand dual drive systems.

Western Digital MyBook Thunderbolt is an example
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/890514-REG/Western_Digital_wdbusk0040...

B&H has 31 from 7 companies. Most are just size variations within a given company's models.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ipp=50&Ns=p_PRICE_2%7c0&ci=6543&N=4294...



Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 4:49:14 pm

[Craig Seeman] "It seems RED may be moving to GPU support as an alternative to Rocket."

Absolutely not. Resolve uses GPU to render, so I would assume RedCineX will be somewhat comparable, meaning you're looking at about 12-15 fps with a GPU. Red Rocket-X will supposedly do about 60fps with 6k footage. If you need serious transcoding power, a Rocket-X in a 16x PCI-e lane is what you're going to need, which means you're not going to get that speed with the new Mac Pro.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 6:26:36 pm

No ROCKET Necessary: 3rd Party GPU Acceleration is Coming to REDCINE-X PRO
http://nofilmschool.com/2013/08/3rd-party-gpu-acceleration-coming-redcine-x...

RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
http://www.redsharknews.com/post/item/1015-red-gets-huge-gpu-workflow-boost



Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 8:43:54 pm

No of that in no way invalidates my point. First of all, what did JJ mean when he said, "24fps"? Playback? Transcoding to ProRes HQ? Because if it's just playback, then whoopdeedoo. If it's transcoding, that's fine, but it's still real-time (more or less, not counting slo-mo), and I said "serious"...yeah, it's nice when you can start your transcode and leave it while you go off and do something else, but when you're on set and everyone's waiting to go home while you transcode the last full mag that got dropped off to your station right after wrap, then 60fps vs 24 or less starts to look damn good.


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 8:48:53 pm

[Craig Seeman] "It seems RED may be moving to GPU support as an alternative to Rocket."

I've been under a rock today. Any new news here from IBC?

More specifically, will GPU support be limited to REDCINE-X, or will other apps be able to use it as they can use the ROCKET?

What would the performance penalty be for using the GPU(s) to decode/debayer/dewhatever R3D while also using the GPU(s) for grading?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Dennis Radeke
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 10:31:17 am

[Travis Roesler] "Windows is garbage."

Windows may be garbage in your mind but,

[Travis Roesler] "I need the processing speed and power."

There is no arguing that Windows boxes offer substantially more processing power than Macs do.

That said, if you want a MacPro than either the Tube or the last gen MacPro would probably be your best bets. I'm assuming a hackintosh is out of the question for you. Make sure you get a lot of RAM for any 64-bit app you use.


Return to posts index

alban egger
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 1:44:47 pm

Get an iMac instead of an old MacPro


Return to posts index

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 8:01:26 am

[Travis Roesler] "I hear a lot of mixed reviews.

Please let me know what you guys think.
"


Video editing can be a mixed bag of different flavors. An editor working in a company sharing seats and duties with other professionals and an event videographer or a freelance documentarist can have slightly or less slightly different needs. My experience as a freelance documentarist with FCPX is great. A couple of weeks ago I was working with a friend on an old project involving tape, so I had to switch back to 7 Even though I loved at the time, it felt really old now. I'd never go back. I find the X to be much faster in my real world experience. What helps me most is the magnetic timeline, once I got used to it, the skimming option for timeline or single clip, which is just great, and the media organization that lets me find all the jellyfish images I collected in years among a ton of clips, or the "new age" or "upbeat" audio tracks in my background music archive in a few seconds. I am working with the current version with minor flaws on an upgraded early 2008 Mac Pro. It still does the job and lets me deliver to the TV channel I work for, so yours should be even better. Upgrading to the new MP or just a rMBP will also mean adding to the machine price 1000,00 USD or more for an external TB offering the speed of the internal RAID you can build striping three drives on the old MP, a TB to esata adapter if you still own a lot of archive on esata raids and need to backup and archive stuff, a TB RT HD output card, unless the next version of FCPX offers this via the onboard HDMI port, and possibly other third party adapters like a PCIe to TB one if you use other cards. If you are on a low budget and paid a nice price for the MP and you don't plan to work on large formats material for a couple of years, I don't see it as a so bad purchase as others do.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


Return to posts index

Geoff Addis
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 8:35:39 am

Perhaps this will answer your question ...

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/news/1225-fcp-x-in-bulgaria-a-new-definitio...


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 12:53:39 pm

[Geoff Addis] "Perhaps this will answer your question ..."

Considering that the entire article is devoted to ingest and organization and not a single sentence to editing, finishing and delivery, I don't think that article will do for an answer. Unless your an assistant editor.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Bernard Newnham
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 1:02:15 pm

[Travis Roesler] "Windows is garbage."

Always interesting to hear that sort of comment. It would be quite good fun to get people who say "x is garbage" about any big and disparate thing - a make of car, a type of food, whatever - and ask them to explain themselves in depth.

"American cars are rubbish..."
"Chinese food is foul..."
(I don't agree with either of those over-simplifications, by the way)

In this case, sort of Top Trumps for operating systems. Is he talking about Windows 8 or 95 - is he comparing with OS9 or Mavericks? A complex subject worthy of complex discussion.

With baited breath (which we aren't going to hold for too long), we await a full and comprehensive answer from Mr Roesler......

Bernie


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 4:50:28 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "and ask them to explain themselves in depth."

Bernard, they just get insulted when you ask that...mostly because they realize you are implying that they are full of it (which they usually are).


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 8:23:25 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Considering that the entire article is devoted to ingest and organization and not a single sentence to editing, finishing and delivery, I don't think that article will do for an answer. Unless your an assistant editor.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions"


Yup. Cuz it's obvious that if X gains a substantial foothold on sets doing all the ingest and key wording - theres NO chance that as its edit tools continue to develop beyond where they are right now anybody would at some point say, "Ah, screw it. we're already processing the whole front end in X, lets just finish there too since the new 2.0 version (or whatever) now has all the high end workflow bells and whistles as well."

What exactly is the issue now that X can't EASILY address with simple, continued development?

The truth is it's a GREAT editing platform right now. Today.

And the group of potential users who have a specific need that it can't address is getting smaller and smaller.

Apple is building a new box perfect for it. And if that box is at all affordable, they can transform yet another industry.

Or do you really think that the Hollywood pros will buy and use X because it drives huge costs out of ingest and organization and then Apple won't be able to leverage that lead into finishing and distribution? Apple? Really?

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Andy Field
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 9:19:04 pm

Back to your original question before the answers drove off the Mac Pro cliff. Are you fast, skilled and comfortable in FCP7. If so, X will frustrate you at first until you unlearn a lot of ingrained habits. You might want to take Abobe Premier CC out for a 30 day free spin as well. If familiarity, comfort and speed are what you are looking for. It may be a great fit. It has been for us.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 12, 2013 at 9:38:50 pm

[Bill Davis] "Apple won't be able to leverage that lead into finishing and distribution? Apple? Really?"

First of all Bill I wasn't commenting on X, I was commenting on the article. Someone was offering it as an answer to the question "should I or shouldn't I" and I merely pointed out that the article only covered ingest, hardly the only thing to consider when choosing an NLE. As opposed to that article, there have been many well written posts right here at the cow that covered the question more completely. You might have even written some of them.

As for the rest of your post - many X users often point to a workflow in which they use Legacy to handle various export limitations that X currently has. How is that different than an Avid user devising a workflow starting with X ingest?

X as an ingest tool does not necessarily lead to X as the main editing tool - especially not on features where the division of labor is quite specific.

As for Apple leveraging that situation into something more significant, you have spent the past 2 years claiming that feature film and broadcast editing is a tiny niche and one that is rapidly dying out. Why on earth would Apple care what happens in a market that you have been so deliriously happy they have left behind.

If Apple cared about holding onto that market, one would have thought they would have handled the release differently.

[Bill Davis] "Apple is building a new box perfect for it. And if that box is at all affordable, they can transform yet another industry. "

If by affordable you mean Apple is practically giving them away, then yeah, that would be something.

But assuming that they are not willing to loose money on each sale, then there is nothing about either the Tube or X that is or will transform anything. Both might succeed in their markets, but nothing about them enables users to do anything they can't already do.This is not 12 years ago when FCP plus DV allowed editors to lower their cost of entry almost tenfold. The cost savings on ingest mentioned in that article, even if accurate, are a drop in the bucket when considered next to the complete post budget of even a small feature. There is at this time no proof of any other cost saving to using X in this market.

Transformative - you'd have to explain that one to me. Unless you think one click posting to Vimeo is transformative. In that they seem to have the market sown up.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 3:32:55 am

[Herb Sevush] "Someone was offering it as an answer to the question "should I or shouldn't I" and I merely pointed out that the article only covered ingest, hardly the only thing to consider when choosing an NLE."

Actually, not really. The article also discussed the end to end creation of secondary uses such as production dailys and the turnkey EPK material - which I presume would include final output of beneficial work in usable form. So that's far beyond just "ingest." While this particular production might not be doing the editing of their MASTER directly in FCP-X, Sam mentioned elsewhere that after a 3 day layover in NYC, he's headed out again, and this time the motion picture project he's slated to work on is scheduled to do their final edit in X.

I don't know him personally nor would I ever I presume to speak for him or anyone else, but, but it sounds like he feels that X is very much an underrated technical solution for high level content creation in a pretty wide sense.

I'm sure the discussion will continue and we'll know more as time goes on. But what is indisputable is that the "re-imagining" of editing around metadata manipulation that forms the very core of X - appears to be starting to yield benefits across and wider and wider range of production types - feature films being one of them.

Which is good for all. It will keep AVID and Premier on their toes if they come to feel that the concepts built into the core of X are useful and they they need to elevate their game beyond the "this is the way we've always done it, now just everyone do it faster and in a cloud" mode of thinking.

Honestly, that WILL work perfectly well for some editors. All they want is to be left alone with the tools they're already comfortable with and see continuing progress. But thats not the path for all.

AVID has the hollywood rep. Premier has an amazing product depth with what sometimes seems like a zillion moduels many of which work in in concert to meet the needs of a whole range of creative professionals, video editors being just ONE small part of their company focus.. And X is a new kind of editorial and content management construction concept for a new era. Room for all these and more, in my book.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

tony west
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 2:08:47 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Transformative - you'd have to explain that one to me. Unless you think one click posting to Vimeo is transformative. In that they seem to have the market sown up."

One point about the one click Herb, it's just another example of X simplifying the process.

Compressing video for the web used to be kind of a knack on to itself. You had to get the compression right so it wouldn't be buffing on and on for people with slower connections. You had to strike that balance between nice quality and the speed in which it would play for most people that would see it.

Now folks don't have to know much about compression. They can just click that one button.
Is that a big deal for people who already knew how to get video up there? No. But for some folks it maybe is.


Apple is smart. They still have the compressor program for folks that want to do their own compression so they can reach the advanced and the not so advanced at the same time.

What I like about that button is that, while Chris pointed out it may not be faster, but I can send it up there and leave and run errands and when I come back it's up there. Not a super big deal but I like it.
It makes me more productive. There is not enough time in the day for me.

This guy is really enjoying using X and is out there advocating for the product more effectively than Apple is hahahaha

Clearly he loves what the program can do for him.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 2:47:38 pm

[tony west] "One point about the one click Herb, it's just another example of X simplifying the process."

[tony west] "Now folks don't have to know much about compression. They can just click that one button.
Is that a big deal for people who already knew how to get video up there? No. But for some folks it maybe is."


I never use Vimeo or Youtube for posting, my clients want me to send them files directly, so once again X has this great feature that means nothing to me.

In FCP I export with Quicktime Conversion generally using a very specific set of options. Takes me 30 seconds to set up, I checked with a stopwatch. If I do another export today or use one of the default settings it will take 5 seconds. Uploading a file to Vimeo is literally child's play - children do it all the time. Is a single "click" more convenient - well yes, as long as your using Vimeo. And quite honestly, touting it makes X sound like it's designed for morons - which it isn't. But nothing makes it seem more like an iMovie ap than bragging about "one click" publishing to Vimeo. That's what you get with an iphone ap.

If the market decrees that this is a big deal, I will expect to see it on Avid and PPro real soon. This is not one of Bill's meta-data enriched features and it doesn't seem to require a magnetic timeline.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 3:15:15 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I never use Vimeo or Youtube for posting, my clients want me to send them files directly, so once again X has this great feature that means nothing to me."

Probably because you continue to misunderstand it.

When I send a file to a client via Vimeo Pro - I've turned off any Vimeo branding stuff and what they see is simply a URL link that if they click on it, presents a nice, clean, playback (and/or download) window.

It's a link. They click on it. They can watch or download. It's NO different from sending them a file directly from their perspective. It's private, direct, optionally passworded if thats important, and transparent to the end user. AND it's a LOT simpler for me. (that one-click thing)

They don't even know that it's Vimeo unless you tell them.

What Vimeo does (and brilliantly) is do all the transcoding so that a client that logs on with a tablet, or smart phone or desktop machine automatically gets served the right file version to optimize their viewing experience. And I don't even have to think about that back end stuff.

Plus, the moment i hit send, I can go back to work on other projects.

Honestly, it's really nice.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 3:25:16 pm

Bill, your making Vimeo Pro sound very attractive. I'll have to look into it, even without "one click." Thanks.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

tony west
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 3:52:07 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Bill, your making Vimeo Pro sound very attractive. I'll have to look into it, even without "one click." Thanks."


Herb it really is great man.


Return to posts index

tony west
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 4:05:24 pm

Also Herb, for people that work on documentaries and need to apply for grants, you have to fill out the grant online these days and they have a place for you to put a link to your trailer so they can look at it.

Vimeo is great for that. As Bill said, no logos, just your trailer so they can see it.

If there is a better way I'm all ears.


Return to posts index

Sandeep Sajeev
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 5:03:25 pm

Vimeo Pro is great. The player is fully customisable and you can even choose to not have your videos show up on the Vimeo site if you don't want to - just have the videos show up in your site with your branding.

One thing that's great about FCPX's integration with Vimeo is that the files show up quicker on Vimeo (I don't know why this is, but I checked this with about 5 videos and the exports from inside X always came out quicker).

The downside to this is that you can't replace videos from inside X. If you want to keep your stats etc and just upload a newer version, you can choose Replace from the Vimeo site, but that option isn't in X.

I think it's about 80 bucks a year for a Pro account. Well worth it IMO. It's great for client previews as they can view their films on their phones, tablets etc and you don't have to do anything special for that to happen.

Sandeep.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 9:13:08 pm

[Bill Davis] "It's a link. They click on it. They can watch or download. It's NO different from sending them a file directly from their perspective. It's private, direct, optionally passworded if thats important, and transparent to the end user. AND it's a LOT simpler for me. (that one-click thing)

They don't even know that it's Vimeo unless you tell them. "


I am kind of interested in this too.

So what is the link address if it's not Vimeo.com?

I'm with Herb, we have our own website that we share files with, and it's much faster as there's no waiting for the damn file to transcode (again) after the upload.

.MP4 seems to work everywhere, at least no one has complained that they couldn't see it quite yet.


Return to posts index

tony west
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 3:50:27 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I never use Vimeo or Youtube for posting, my clients "

That's fine, but I got all kinds of clients with all kinds of needs.

A ton of corporate clients want their videos on youtube.

I did a job for the United States Department of Energy and they wanted their stuff up there. I don't care where they want it, I will post it on the moon if the price is right.

My point wasn't about what you personally do, it's was more to Apple jumping on that trend and streamlining the overall process of editing.

Yes, it's easy to post video up online these days. Doesn't change the fact that many corporate clients chose to pay folks to do it for them I while back. Many didn't have a clue how to do it, and if you are saying most corporate clients knew how to use compressor, I don;t believe that.


[Herb Sevush] "In FCP I export with Quicktime Conversion generally using a very specific set of options. Takes me 30 seconds to set up,"


I don't think we are talking about the same thing here, It takes more than 30 secs to export from the timeline. Depending on the length and how heavy the graphics are. So you have to wait for that time for it to export and then upload it. What I'm saying is I don't wait for it. I can just leave to do other things.

And don't worry about people thinking it's iMovie brother, that's been settled.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 4:31:39 pm

Hey Tony,

Could you drop me an email off-line?

I have an question I'd like to bounce off you.

Use my general email: new video AT fastq (fast plus a lowercase Q) . com)

Thanks.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

tony west
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 5:16:03 pm

I just sent it Bill


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 13, 2013 at 9:17:55 pm

Tony -

Thanks for the info about Vimeo, I am starting to play around with it and it might have some advantages for some of the stuff i send out.

As to the whole "one click" thing -

Exporting in the background is the great time saver, and as someone still using Legacy I envy you that ability, but it works with or without the "one click" button. I believe PPro has background rendering through a send to AME command and I think Avid has it as well now.

With Legacy I send "pointer" files to an AME watch folder and AME automatically converts it to what I want; not as fast as true background rendering since I still have to wait for the export, but I'm not creating the .h264 in Legacy and because it's not a self contained video file it doesn't take too long. AME can also send the file to an FTP site automatically if that suits your client.

Also, on further exploration it seems that the finder in Mountain Lion has a send to Vimeo button, so any NLE that creates a file on Mountain Lion gets this feature.

In addition Vimeo uses Dropbox so that if you export your file from any NLE to the properly setup Dropbox folder Vimeo will upload it automatically.

All in all I really don't think that the "one click" publish to Vimeo button is something I would be using to sell X with.

But thanks to both you and Bill for getting me looking at Vimeo Pro.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Paul Neumann
Re: Final Cut Pro user... considering FCP X... do I upgrade?
on Sep 14, 2013 at 1:52:25 am

I'm pretty dependent on my Vimeo Pro account. I set all my videos to private/undiscoverable, don't allow embedding and don't allow downloading. Most of the time I don't allow comments unless it's a work in progress. I send my client a link to view and then I'll turn those other features back on temporarily (usually just download is all they need) when they're ready to take it over.

I especially like the SD versions it creates for you that work really well in PPT and Keynote. One less version/format for me to worry about.

I've never uploaded directly from X though. Just too finicky about manual QA on my part. I do have some FTP presets for TV stations that I use through AME, but even that makes me nervous.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]