FORUMS: list search recent posts

Why I am angry.

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Aindreas Gallagher
Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 2:05:28 pm

I originally posted this in response to a bit about the magnetic timeline, I'm reposting it in the vague prayerful hope that someone from apple checks the forums and that they will grok the scale of the problem with what Randy has done to the editing system.

----

my two cent on the magnetic timeline - the position tool is not an annulment of the magnetic timeline. FCPX can have no gaps - you can hold a modifier and - horror of horrors - allow a clip to traverse the timeline and impact on other clips - this is not clip behaviour - the magnetic timeline is permanent.

moronically, if you move a clip using the position tool, the gap will not be allowed to exist - a slug will appear. That is stupid. if I need to perceive what is going to, or should happen in a space, i cannot simply slide the next three or four clips down the track, leave a breather, and begin to place clips into the black, trying to consider in my mind the number and type of shots I feel should be there.

Personally I find this the most galling point, more so than the immediate attachment of V2 clips to V1 - Randy, the overweening idiot, has chosen to remove the space for me to calmly place and slide my clips around in the as yet unexpressed parts of my edit - particularly in short form, in emotive pieces where what happens over two seconds of a vo punch and a music crescendo, where what happens there is critical and I don't yet know what it is, to have clips re-arrange, or when temporarily halted by the position tool, to have moronic slugs appear for no reason, angers me on a fundamental level and I will tell you why - in those moments, I am not an adherent to FCP, I believe that that stuff, the stuff that space is allowing me, is the basis of editing.
Apple, in their engorged moronic hubris chose to screw with the most basic conceptual precepts of editing. We cant even see the clip and the target at the same time.

As Walter Murch (may buddha shine on his soul) pretty brilliantly outlines, editing is kind of in us. It's in the way we blink, when we pan and perceive a room, it was in us, before there were tools to synthesise it. The tools created to this point have been fairly sensitive to basic requirements.

That apple would see fit to screw with our basic creative pathways, that they would merrily lobotomise the tools we reach for when trying to express an edit, simply in order to make a fast buck from a 720p iphone user, is annoying in the order of loud blackboard scraping mindbogglingly annoying.

http://bit.ly/ivsrTr

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 4:42:13 pm

You hit it.

I don't feel like an editor in this timeline. I feel like a monkey. I don't want to be a monkey. I want to work how I want...I've only been doing this for 10 years, but I kinda thought that was usually all an editor needed...customization and control.

I'm surprised to see even one editor defend this wretched "timeline". After 3 days with it. I want to punch it in the face. And punch myself for pounding away at it listening to a lot in the "timeline" defense crowd saying how much I'll love it and I just don't get it yet...

I got it, I don't like it. But, what surprised me here the most, I really really don't like it. It's wretched. It's a shame though, I wanted to...


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 4:50:43 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "moronically, if you move a clip using the position tool, the gap will not be allowed to exist - a slug will appear. That is stupid. if I need to perceive what is going to, or should happen in a space, i cannot simply slide the next three or four clips down the track, leave a breather, and begin to place clips into the black, trying to consider in my mind the number and type of shots I feel should be there."

How does the slug that appears in a gap prevent you from doing this? IMO this 'gap slug' behavior is a very nice feature, because it allows gaps to be treated like normal clips. Want to delete one? You don't have to just a special 'close gap' command; just delete it like any other clip. Want to extend one? You don't have to switch tools, select every clip that follows it on the timeline, and drag them all further back. Just drag it out to be longer like any other clip, and everything else ripples.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index


Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 4:55:46 pm

Oh no - I'm not going down to crazy town with you again Chris - we're doing enough of that below. I've stated my thoughts above, they are my own.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 4:59:53 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Oh no - I'm not going down to crazy town with you again Chris - we're doing enough of that below. I've stated my thoughts above, they are my own."

You claim the new gap behavior makes it harder for you to edit. But as far as I can see, it's easier to insert gaps, easier to delete them, and easier to change their lengths. And insert/overwrite operations work the same with gaps in FCP X as they did with gaps in FCP 7.

And now you're not willing to explain what you were talking about.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 5:07:43 pm

Chris baby, if apple introduced a feature where they delivered 50 volt shocks every 90 minutes through the keyboard, I strongly suspect you would be telling me how it is essential to keeping the editor alert on the longer edit sessions. I"m afraid I'm not actually engaging with you on this post - I've made my thoughts clear above, my thoughts are my own.


Famous Quote from Ben Franklin:
"Randy Ubillos, you total ass, FCP7 wasn't a multitrack editor, editing is a multitrack operation, editing systems are intended to be an expression of that truth."

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index


Chris Kenny
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 5:13:23 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I've made my thoughts clear above, my thoughts are my own."

You've said the way FCP X handles gaps interferes with the way you edit, but you haven't explained how, given that insert/overwrite operations on top of sequence gaps in FCP X work the same way in FCP X as they do in FCP 7.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Chris Jacek
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 5:01:45 pm

Like it, or don't like it. You should be able to de-activate it when you want to. There's no reason that a magnetic behavior could not exist in a traditional timeline structure. This would make everyone happy.

This is the main reason the Avid was so popular when it first revolutionized editing. It had all the old-school concepts available, but also had some interesting new ways to do things. Compared to other things on the market at the time (Matrox Video Cube, Media 100, etc), it had a ton of options. When first learning it, I remember thinking "This is so frustrating, there are a dozen different ways to do the same thing." After about a week of editing on one, I remember thinking, "This is awesome, there are a dozen ways to do the same thing."

Isn't that the ultimate goal of good software? To be flexible enough to make it useful and enjoyable for your user, regardless of how that user is wired? Photoshop has been around for 20+ years because its creators fully embrace that concept.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 5:14:29 pm

[Chris Jacek] "Like it, or don't like it. You should be able to de-activate it when you want to. There's no reason that a magnetic behavior could not exist in a traditional timeline structure. This would make everyone happy. "

As has been pointed out repeatedly, use the Position tool.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index


Paul Figgiani
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 6:16:19 pm

Also - there's no need to switch tools to disassociate (demagnetize) a clip or group of clips from the rest of the timeline assets. Try using the < or > keys after making a selection. It works pretty well ...

-paul.


Return to posts index

Buddy Couch
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 6:35:05 pm

Try using the < or > keys after making a selection. It works pretty well ...

Paul,
That is entirely to simple. I mean why not push Command,alt,option,plus 5 instead? Effiencency is not a widely held concept in this forum. Actually they should have released foot pedals with Final Cut X as well. A hardware solution to compliment the complexity that old schoolers are looking for.

"Get on the bus or get run over by it." Love that quote.


Return to posts index

J Hussar
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 7:23:33 pm

[Buddy Couch] ""Get on the bus or get run over by it." Love that quote.
"


In this case the bus is going to drive off a cliff.

I'll take my chances not being on it.



Return to posts index


Buddy Couch
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 11:50:29 pm

LOL @ In this case the bus is going to drive off a cliff.

I'll take my chances not being on it.


Good one J Hussar!

I never thought of it that way :)


Return to posts index

Eric Jurgenson
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 7:47:46 pm

100% agree with Aindreas on this one. This automatic anticipatory behavior just gets in the way. I'm ALWAYS moving clips or groupings temporarily to the end of the timeline, using this as a scratchpad, or temporary storage area. If FCP-X creates slugs in my gaps, that would be totally stupid.

Here's another expression: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."



Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 26, 2011 at 1:08:02 am

it creates slugs in all instances without exception. It is a timeline without spaces - that was randy ubilloses "I can see stars" insight for the craft of editing.

My timeline has no time, no space, no video channels, god i would often calmly throw whole short form edit versions off away down the track - V1 through V7 high, wee little towers of editing thought when I zoom out- this is why now I truly hate that comparison shot apple so carefully orchestrated between FCP7 and FCPX, everything they said there was intellectually false, everything they tried to sell was false, all they were doing was laying the groundwork for a base consumer cash grab where they took the name of FCP and the brute moronic simplicity of V1 A2 imovie, burned the professional application base alive and sold the moron with glitz bells software to anyone who would buy it. Apple didn't make this software for editors as a craft or a profession, they could give a damn. they saw lobotomised editing with the FCP marker as an ipod sale.

all apple want, all they have ever wanted in their lives - is cash.

this image could somewhat sum it up:

http://bit.ly/jIUH2N

famous quote from Thomas Jefferson:
"Randy Ubillos, you total and utter moron, FCP7 wasn't a multitrack editor, editing is a multitrack operation, editing systems are intended to be an expression of that truth."

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index


Michael Aranyshev
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 8:11:59 pm

[Chris Kenny] "How does the slug that appears in a gap prevent you from doing this?"

Strictly speaking it doesn't. However it sits there constantly reminding you of the fact the guy who designed this timeline got his idea of editing from his roommate who's grandma was cutting Mack Sennet's flicks with a pair of scissors. It's not the future of editing. It is the badly understood past.

[Chris Kenny] "IMO this 'gap slug' behavior is a very nice feature, because it allows gaps to be treated like normal clips."

Gaps in real FCP behaved just like regular clips. You could select, delete, ripple delete and trim them as you liked. Didn't you know that? But still they looked like gaps, not like another clip. Visual clues are important.

All this "faster horses vs an automobile" stuff is BS. FCPX timeline isn't trackless. It is clearly designed as a 1V2A timeline with everything beyond that slapped on as an afterthought and held to it with huge amount of gaffer tape. Every single "innovation" there was implemented long ago to various degrees of stupidity in other NLE's. Apple just collected the worst design decisions and scrambled them together.


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 10:22:52 pm

[Michael Aranyshev] "Strictly speaking it doesn't. However it sits there constantly reminding you of the fact the guy who designed this timeline got his idea of editing from his roommate who's grandma was cutting Mack Sennet's flicks with a pair of scissors."

So your entire objection is to the visual presentation?

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Michael Aranyshev
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 11:24:07 pm

No. My objection is to calling something clearly designed as 1V2A timeline that is always in ripple mode "innovative and revolutionary". It is very old and very restrictive.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 26, 2011 at 12:30:44 am

yes. thank you jesus.
I mean we have to - look - either apple are in Versailles throwing cake out the window and peeing on our heads laughing, or there is some chance we can forcefully present to them the sheer idiocy of this software.

It is incumbent upon us to kick this particular editing software provider's ass until it shines.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

MIke Guidotti
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 26, 2011 at 4:19:37 pm

wrong spot


Return to posts index

MIke Guidotti
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 26, 2011 at 4:21:16 pm

If you are wanting to toss a shot in to the space between two clips (over the slug). When you delete the slug the clips to the right snap to the left.


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 25, 2011 at 9:54:42 pm

Spot on, Aindreas.

The magnetic timeline is a UI disaster and completely undermines the very foundation of the editing process. There's a reason the timeline/track metaphor has been used for decades since the invention of NLE systems. It works because at a fundamental level, it really can't get any simpler. Time is linear and fixed, media are objects that get placed in time to create linear experience. When we edit, we demand absolute control of every event on the timeline. Could it be improved? Of course. But don't destroy the very heart of non-linear editing to add those improvements. Working with the magnetic timeline is like trying to build a house on a bed of quicksand instead of steel and concrete.



Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why I am angry.
on Jun 26, 2011 at 1:29:17 am

"The magnetic timeline is a UI disaster and completely undermines the very foundation of the editing process."


and well... that's it OK? Yes?
That is just rather it. That is what has happened.

That is the phrase and truth of the situation. That statement is fundamentally true.

And most importantly - apple did this for reasons which have nothing to do with supporting the craft and continuance of professional editing.

They really really did not.

here's to the crazy ones.

http://bit.ly/jIUH2N

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]