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HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt

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Craig Seeman
HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 10, 2013 at 7:33:47 pm

HP does Thunderbolt! Yes!
http://provideocoalition.com/atepper/story/hp-does-thunderbolt-yes
and
HP desktop workstations with Thunderbolt 2
HP Z420, Z620, and Z820 Workstations
HP mobile workstations (“laptops”) with Thunderbolt
HP ZBook 15 and 17 models feature a first-generation Thunderbolt port




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Herb Sevush
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 10, 2013 at 8:00:55 pm

But I thought that HP is leaving the computer business.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 10, 2013 at 9:43:58 pm

Given the way some people are derisive of Thunderbolt anything with Thunderbolt must not be a computer of course. ;)

HP Z series should be interesting given they'd have both Thunderbolt and PCIe slots.
For those mixed system shops this should help since one can move Thunderbolt peripherals back and forth now.



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Herb Sevush
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 10, 2013 at 10:11:40 pm

[Craig Seeman] "HP Z series should be interesting given they'd have both Thunderbolt and PCIe slots.
For those mixed system shops this should help since one can move Thunderbolt peripherals back and forth now."


Thunderbolt for what it's good for, PCIe for what it's not. It's always better to have options, an idea that neither Apple nor Adobe seem to be big on.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Santiago Martí
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 10, 2013 at 11:21:50 pm

Don't forget dual processors!

Santiago Martí
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar
Red One M-X, Red Epic X, Red Pro Primes, Adobe CS6, Assimilate Scratch


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Craig Seeman
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 10, 2013 at 11:34:47 pm

[Santiago Martí] "Don't forget dual processors!"

Don't forget dual GPUs.
Yes you can add a second GPU to an HP Z but not a second Proc to a new MacPro but I suspect Apple has a good idea which will get them wider sales and/or deeper profits. At least they think they have a good idea and they tend to guess right more often than not.



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Craig Seeman
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 10, 2013 at 11:31:25 pm

Apple sees the PCIe card market as a shrinking niche. There are cards that are best in 8x and 16x slots. Since most of those using two 16x cards are dealign with two GPUs Apple addressed that by including two GPUs. Granted things are locked in but this goes back to my comments going back to when the forum first started. People described Apple as a "consumer" company and I contended they're a "commodity" company.

There's pluses and minuses to HPs vs Apple's business model. Which one is better depends on where one is coming from both as a potential customer and the company's business model. I think Apple is prioritizing their costs to maximize benefits within their market approach. I think Apple's model is going to work out well for them. In the computer market they tend to relatively well when one looks at sales of computers over $1000 for example.



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Santiago Martí
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 1:31:33 am

The only reason to buy the new MacPro is OSX. It will be really expensive.
It is clear now that HP is a workstation manufacturer. Laptops and desktop options for different budgets. Also intel Phi is coming out, as an option in next Dell's workstations and to anyone with a PCIe slot available.
So, a small, 1cpu 2gpus machine looks more like a niche computer to me. Expensive, only four ram slots, only two amd cards, no pci, no second CPU, but really small. I'm sure it will be enough for a lot of people, but it will be expensive enough to make the Imac a better OSX choice.

Santiago Martí
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar
Red One M-X, Red Epic X, Red Pro Primes, Adobe CS6, Assimilate Scratch


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Chris Kenny
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 4:35:10 am

[Santiago Martí] "I'm sure it will be enough for a lot of people, but it will be expensive enough to make the Imac a better OSX choice."

The Mac Pro has traditionally been price-competative with similarly specced Wintel workstations immediately following model refreshes. I don't see why that would change with the new design.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Charlie Austin
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 6:15:55 am

[Santiago Martí] "The only reason to buy the new MacPro is OSX. It will be really expensive."

You've got pricing info? Cool... how much does it cost?

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Santiago Martí
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 3:06:11 pm

It doesn't take a genius to guess price considering components in a fully loaded system. 12 core xeon? Flash HDD? Two ultra expensive Ati GPUs? 128 GB of ram in only 4 memory slots? Do the math, it will be really expensive.

Santiago Martí
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar
Red One M-X, Red Epic X, Red Pro Primes, Adobe CS6, Assimilate Scratch


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Chris Kenny
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 4:42:33 am

If you read the details, it says they'll offer a PCIe card for their desktop workstations with one Thunderbolt 2 port in 'early 2014.' That's notable in that Intel hasn't previously allowed Thunderbolt to be offered via PCIe cards (or on any Socket 2011 Wintel system). But they're not going to beat Apple to market, and only offering a single port is not especially impressive.

Still, though, the fact that this is being offered at all suggests HP is seeing some demand for Thunderbolt among Wintel workstation customers, which is interesting.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Michael Phillips
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 11:38:01 am

And speaking of processors:

http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/reviews/workstations/boston-venom-2401-7...


Michael


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Herb Sevush
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 12:33:55 pm

[Chris Kenny] "only offering a single port is not especially impressive."

Is there any reason to believe that you couldn't use more cards if you needed more ports? Also under what configuration would you need more than 1 daisychaining Tblt port if you also have multiple PCIe slots available?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Michael Phillips
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 12:47:11 pm

Agreed - as many folks will add PICe cages to their Mac to support more slots... in this scenario, the slots are already available. So it's a balance of the two. For those who want to go thunderbolt all the way they can do one way, and those who want another, can go their's.

Michael


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Herb Sevush
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 1:29:04 pm

[Michael Phillips] "as many folks will add PICe cages to their Mac to support more slots"

Difference being that adding PCIe through expansion does not give you any 16 lane possibilities, limiting your use of additional GPUs.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 5:20:17 pm

Don't forget Asus introduced a Tbolt 2 Electric Bugaloo motherboard, as well.

http://www.asus.com/News/22a1IgaOOVSdTMoM


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Chris Kenny
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 4:53:52 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Is there any reason to believe that you couldn't use more cards if you needed more ports? Also under what configuration would you need more than 1 daisychaining Tblt port if you also have multiple PCIe slots available?"

I'd assume each card will need to have DisplayPort looped into it, which might get annoying with multiple cards. Unless Intel has dropped the 'all Thunderbolt ports must carry video' requirement as well, or there's some other scheme to get video on these ports.

As for why you'd want more than one port... there are enough Thunderbolt devices out there that don't have a passthrough port that just having a single port will be a bit annoying on a workstation. This includes a bunch of stuff that the presence of PCIe slots doesn't really reduce the need for, like external drives.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Eric Michael Cap
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 7:25:02 pm

Just had a conversation with Dave Helmly about this, and while the PCIe Thunderbolt card does feature Displayport IN as per Intel's Thunderbolt specs, it's not required to be connected - unless you want the video looped through.



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Chris Kenny
Re: HP does Thunderbolt 2 possibly ahead of Apple. Laptops with original Thunderbolt
on Sep 11, 2013 at 7:41:51 pm

[Eric Michael Cap] "Just had a conversation with Dave Helmly about this, and while the PCIe Thunderbolt card does feature Displayport IN as per Intel's Thunderbolt specs, it's not required to be connected - unless you want the video looped through."

Interesting. Didn't Intel decline to certify an ASUS motherboard that tried to satisfy the video requirement with a DisplayPort input last year? I wonder if they're opening up with this in general, or if they've got some special arrangement with HP. And I wonder how HP is handling the cabling here. Just externally, with a cable looping up from the graphics card to the Thunderbolt card? Or are they doing something more interesting, like OEM GPUs with internal DP connectors?

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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