FORUMS: list search recent posts

naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
anita sancha
naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 5, 2013 at 9:48:28 am

Hi maybe I am not doing editing correctly, but here goes.

Here is an example of a problem.

I have 20 mins of clips of underwater filming made from 3 takes !!! so they more or less have the same file names. I need dozens of short clips of details of plastic and netting becoming entangled in fish etc. Mostly they all look the same in the timeline, it all looks like blue water!!!. As the cut clips are quite small, I can't see the file names and anyway they are mostly not useful, as many of the clips are cuts of the same take.

If I zoom in out out etc... i cant find the area I was editing so I use custom solids to help me see the area, say 10 clips either side of where i am working and also markers... I also need to find the ones that belong to say different nets and different plastic rubbish...and highlight them somehow. sorting out on the timeline.. can keywords highlight in the timeline? can tagging HIGHLIGHT them.?.just like a pen highlighter?

BUT......

Is there any quick way of label colour highlighting .cuts ...changing the clips from the blue grey default so I can VISUALLY see the ones I like or am working on, in the same way a custom solid is orange. colour labelling would be VERY useful.

How do other editors deal with masses of clips that are similar and how to rate clips from the same take.

Thanks for all your help
Anita Sancha.

http://www.anitasancha.co.uk


Return to posts index

Mark Dobson
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 5, 2013 at 10:31:20 am

Excuse me if I'm describing a method you have already know but you need to sort your clips out in the event browser.

A couple of pointers:

If you want you can rename the clips either directly in the event browser by double clicking the file name or change it in the in the info section in the inspector.

With each clip you can select sections as favorites ( or reject them ) - In list view these show up sequentially under the clip. You can retitle these favorites, this information does not show up in a project timeline, alternatively you can add Notes in the notes field, this information does show up in the timeline index.

If you were to retitle the favorites with a description and as good bad or indifferent takes, for example you could then then set up a more refined set of keyword collections and simply assign all the good takes to the 'good take's keyword collection etc etc

That way when you are ready to edit you can simply open up the specific keyword collection: For example 'Good Takes' and have immediate access to the best clips or sections of clips.

Hope that's of some help.


Return to posts index

anita sancha
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 5, 2013 at 1:05:24 pm

thanks for your help.. I do use keywords and favourites... but it is still a very WORDY method. Is there no way to colour label clip. so it is VISUAL.? I will have another go at this... perhaps because I am VERY dislex i have an aversion to words anyway.

So I dont use them much I prefer to bring in and BLADE cut and sortout there. seem more creative.

If I work in the event browser and favourite and keywords. I would still need to find the clips easily in the timeline. "open in timeline" only opens the clip.... not where it IS in the timeline. Or am I wrong?

Thanks for your time.

Thanks for all your help
Anita Sancha.

http://www.anitasancha.co.uk


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 5, 2013 at 1:15:04 pm

[anita sancha] "If I work in the event browser and favourite and keywords. I would still need to find the clips easily in the timeline. "open in timeline" only opens the clip.... not where it IS in the timeline. Or am I wrong?"

You want a reverse match frame function. It doesn't exist in FCP X. There's also no clip color coding. Other NLEs do that, but not X. Send Apple a Feedback request. Some of these needs *might* be cover by using the timeline index, but I'm not sure.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 5, 2013 at 1:23:52 pm

That is not the function of open in timeline. Open in timeline steps into the guts of a clip. It's only used in special situations. Unfortunately color labeling clips remains near the top of many wish lists. REVEAL in timeline is too.


Return to posts index

Mark Dobson
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 5, 2013 at 2:34:04 pm

Hi Anita,

Yes, as others have pointed out unfortunately there is not way to color code clips in either the Event Library or within a project.

However, and I know this uses words, if you edit a clip into project time line and have the Time line Index open ( which you open up either by clicking the 'File symbol' on the left beneath the project window, on the pulldown window menu on the top bar or by the keyboard command Shift/Command/2 )

You will then notice that every time you slice or cut the clip that instance is reflected in the Timeline Index and that you can add a note against any note worthy sections or clips.

If you then want to find that cut or section within the Event Browser, click on it and prose Shift F and it will appear in or Event Browser Window.

An alternative solution would be to create compound clips of any sections you want to use again. These will be stored in the Event Browser and you can create a smart collection to easily group them together.

I have attached an image showing a sliced clip in the timeline and corresponding notes against some of the new clips in the TimeLine Index



Return to posts index


anita sancha
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 5, 2013 at 3:01:22 pm

thanks every one.... i will look into all those options and send apple a request for inclusion in net upgrade THANKS

Thanks for all your help
Anita Sancha.

http://www.anitasancha.co.uk


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 5, 2013 at 4:21:23 pm

I too have trouble keeping track (pun intended) of all my clips of the same flavor. One thing I find useful is to name them with a number sequence.

First go to your event browser and rename all your clips and favorites. For example: One could name your first clip 1 BLUE NET and the first favorite under that clip 1A Blue net the second one 1B Blue net etc.

Then go to your timeline and right clip and choose reveal in event browser. Then you figure out which clip it is and rename the timeline clip the same name by changing it in the index.

It's way easier to have a number sort then remembering which blue net twisted or blue net zoom in etc you have used before. Some editors can keep all this stuff in their heads like great chess players do. But a good organization system can level the playing field.

The timeline index is very useful to see a list of your clips in the timeline before or instead of zooming in the view.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

James Cude
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 6, 2013 at 7:10:42 am

Also you can tag specific clips with Roles and then use the Timeline Index to sort/solo/disable specific Roles. It's not quite the same as color labeling but it can be useful if you spend some time to try it.


Return to posts index


Bill Davis
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 7, 2013 at 2:40:43 am

[anita sancha] "Is there any quick way of label colour highlighting .cuts ...changing the clips from the blue grey default so I can VISUALLY see the ones I like or am working on, in the same way a custom solid is orange. colour labelling would be VERY useful.

How do other editors deal with masses of clips that are similar and how to rate clips from the same take.

Thanks for all your help
Anita Sancha."


Anita,

I know other editors will tell you that clip color tags are "missing" in X. But don't get misled by that. X is about as VISUAL a system as you could devise. The issue is that it sounds as if, like most editors, you're coming from an orientation where you did virtually all your editing IN the timeline. X is NOT like that. Others have mentioned that in X, the Event Browser is where visual search is best done. And while that's DRIVEN by text keywords, the USE is anything BUT textural. If you learn and use the database correctly, you can have a typed letter or two instantly call up the exact clips you want with full, playable thumbnails - instantly. It just requires some preparation and keyword assignment.

I've attached a screen cap of a very small project I did for a neighbor's daughter recently (and used for my users group demo last night.)



She's a competitive equestrian and in building her demo, we assigned a lot of keywords - including the names of the horses she was riding in each clip. One horse, Illux, is keyword highlighted in my sample screen cap in the list at the left.. As you can see, what that presents to the user is all the clips that that particular horse is tagged in, as VISUAL clips. No hunting for anything on a timeline. No squinting or trying to see which clip is which. No TEXT at all - just pictures. Once the database delivers them for inspection, you can SCRUB the thumbnail and see it in the viewer instantly. If you want to add a part of the source clip to your storyline, you just make a range selection and hit a single keystroke, and that clip gets added to your project.

It couldn't be simpler once you know how the system works. And it couldn't be more visual. The only thing blocking you is that you're trying to do in the Storyline - what X has a tremendously better system for doing in the Event Browser.

X takes some learning. But the biggest part of that learning is to NOT think it's going to work like any other editing software.

Hope that helps.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

anita sancha
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 7, 2013 at 7:36:57 am

Thanks every one.... Yes it does seem that I am still using old style editing in the timeline.... The next project I will use all these suggested new ways to sort before hand. And I'll start from scratch. And use all the suggested tags etc. it would have made my problem mush easier.perhaps because I'm looking at so much SEA it's highlighted the issue. So back to the training videos and give it a deeper try. Ido use it but not to a very deep level. And it's got me into a bit of a mess. However I still have sent a feedback request to apple and hey ho... Maybe we will get it. Even if I can colour the clips I'm happy with tight edits etc... It, would be useful.

Thanks again.

Thanks for all your help
Anita Sancha.

http://www.anitasancha.co.uk


Return to posts index

anita sancha
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 7, 2013 at 8:27:14 am

Hi.... Just for the record.... The timeline editor is probably the main area I had not used. ESP ... ROLES. And NOTES.

so for anyone else, stumbling on this thread here is a very good link to more on this







Thanks for all your help
Anita Sancha.

http://www.anitasancha.co.uk


Return to posts index


Bill Davis
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 7, 2013 at 7:11:28 pm

Anita,

There's a lot to learn, but at the end of the journey, there's a lot to like in X.

If I had one bit of advice for you (or anyone else coming new to X) I'd say it is learn the data FLOW through the software.

Roughly, it's IMPORT to EVENT BROWSER to STORYLINE to PROJECT LIBRARY to SHARE.

Try to learn the software in THAT order.

When people try to "learn" X by diving downstream into the storyline first (a natural way to approach all other NLE programs since that's the central workspace in them) you jump over critical parts of understanding how the software actually works. You mention Roles. Roles are a function in the storyline. Your working well downstream of the organizational power of the program.

Good luck.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 8, 2013 at 6:36:13 pm

Not getting how the basic workflow is so radically different. I do think the browser in X is more developed than in 7. However the workflow is for me pretty much the same. Organize imports in the browser. The two program browsers work differently with pros and cons for each. I prefer subclips to favorites but I much prefer all the tagging and sort abilities of X. I like the filmstrips of X but I prefer the I/O setting in a full window and I like the view blown up that way. But not a big deal as I get used to X. Next edit in a timeline.
Clearly the timeline is a work in progress in X. There are many ways to view the clips and aspects of the timeline and how it works and if it works without bugs. Seems like a lot of potential but needs some refinement. Color correcting is done in the inspector but also as an "effect". Clips opening in their own timeline. An inconsistent option to use two viewer windows. Compound clips to simplify views but if used too much can mess up your system performance or worse. Secondary storylines are an option but do not have all the functions that the primary has. I don't think all this means Apple wanted a different basic workflow than what we had before. I just think they got a lot done in the browser and the timeline needs work.
As for exporting- both programs did the job and were not particularly intuitive. But lots of articles on line to see you through it.
Seriously what are you doing in the browser that changes your workflow in the timeline?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 8, 2013 at 9:40:56 pm

[Craig Alan] "Seriously what are you doing in the browser that changes your workflow in the timeline?
"


I could talk about this for 20 minutes, but let me make one simple example in a way that every reader can understand.

Trimming.
Extremely powerful asset trimming.

If you trim in the Event (rather than in the timeline) then your trimming decisions are saved by the program and can be used over and over again. When I do voiceover work, I regularly trim the takes down to leave a half beat at the top and tail of each take.Two takes together yeild a natural full beat and the rhythm of the assembly is done automatically.

I can use magnetism to shift takes, lines, whatever, and the rhythm of the spot stays the same. If I want to change the rhythm, that's a snap. But it's GREAT to start that close to finished from the get go.

And don't forget, if I go to use that asset in a another storyline, my prior timing decisions come along with the clip.

And you can do the same thing with visual material. If you understand the natural rhythm of your scene, you can cut something like dialog with single keystroke efficiency - THEN decide when to refine.

Do the work once, use it again and again and again. That's efficiency in action.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index


Craig Alan
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 8, 2013 at 11:07:31 pm

Ok. Trimming in the browser is pretty easy in X and was pretty easy in every NLE I ever tried. Although I rough trim the clips in the browser, the rhythm for me happens in the timeline. The rhythm is either based on the music, the dialog, or the flow of clips. That's all timeline composition. It has to be in context. I like X's click and drag to select a portion of the clip in the browser and like to mix it up with traditional I and O if I get tired of mousing. But the final I and O points are determined in the timeline. I don't see any thing new about this workflow.

For me, X is faster with its one click to save your selection as a favorite but I then need to go back and label these. I remember sub-clips taking longer to create and label and save in folders. But still the work flow was pretty much the same.

I'd guess, X is more likely to encourage new users to begin trimming and organizing in the browser where as in legacy it was something you learned to do with experience. I always think of the zoo story, "Sometimes it's necessary to go a long distance out of the way in order to come back a short distance correctly."

Ok I get that, what else ya got?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 8, 2013 at 11:36:08 pm

These comments about trimming and pacing in the browser sound an awful lot like an assembly line. I think X does well with that and there are plenty of edit jobs that call for that.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure editing is all about efficiency. It's about craft and construction - as in manual work. It's those areas where I think X falls short and still needs work to fill in the gaps. Things I find missing along these lines include more user columns in the browser, an actual clip rating system (like Aperture) and adequate Find/Search tools. It's funny that trimming was mentioned, as that's one of the weakest parts of the X timeline. Overlaps are fine, but there's no asymmetrical trimming.

Adding these features certainly wouldn't detract from what's there now, but it would go a long way to being of better service to a wider range of editing - and editor - styles.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 9, 2013 at 12:33:04 am

[Oliver Peters] "Nevertheless, I'm not sure editing is all about efficiency. It's about craft and construction - as in manual work. It's those areas where I think X falls short and still needs work to fill in the gaps."

But Oliver, that would be true if X had these new features but NOT, traditional editing controls, but it does.
A timeline editor might not have every single keystroke mirrored from the Legacy or AVID approach, but the bulk of editing standards from tops and tails to split edits in the Precision Editor are all there. So it's hard to see how anyone can claim anything beyond the idea that "you'll be somewhat less efficient until you learn to adapt to how X does things"

Which is kind of a DUH statement.

Bottom line, do YOU think there's any real kind of edit construction you can do in AVID or Premier that you can't also do in X? If not, then the Craft argument falls apart - and all one is left with is the efficiency discussion.

[Oliver Peters] "Things I find missing along these lines include more user columns in the browser, an actual clip rating system (like Aperture) and adequate Find/Search tools."

Did anyone else notice that ALL this stuff is about UI and media management, and NONE of it is about actual timeline editing? Kinda odd to slam X about the lack of "craft and construction" in the timeline, and then zero in on stuff thats NOT about craft and construction in the timeline.

(oops , premature post button engaged, here' s the rest of the thought...)

I didn't say that trimming was efficient in X because it works better. I said it was efficient because X by default preserves any trimming decisions you make in the Event Browser and makes them available across a range of projects.

Timeline trimming in X is lovely, but it's an optional process, not absolutely required as it is in most NLEs. And there's no "workaround" necessary to preserve your timeline editing decisions like manually copying your edits and pasting them into alternate timelines merely to preserve the work you've already done.

Sometimes, different is actually more efficient.

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 9, 2013 at 1:08:10 am

[Bill Davis] "ut the bulk of editing standards from tops and tails to split edits in the Precision Editor are all there. "

Well sort of. I never use the PE, because it is not very useful. Split edits are fine, but it's all audio channels or none - so not asymmetrical.

[Bill Davis] "Bottom line, do YOU think there's any real kind of edit construction you can do in AVID or Premier that you can't also do in X?"

Can I do it in X? Yes. Is it often more cumbersome? Yes. There are some missing items. For example, there is no color correction workflow as in "legacy". There's no gang function. The goofy connected clips bouncing up and down when you add additional clips, without any ability to control where you intend them to be placed - due to a lack of tracks. All of this is doable, but adds keystrokes, which goes against the efficiency argument.

[Bill Davis] "Did anyone else notice that ALL this stuff is about UI and media management, and NONE of it is about actual timeline editing?"

Yes and no. Find/Search is both a clip and a timeline function in FCP 7 and other NLEs. I realize the TL Index is supposed to address that, but it doesn't in any sort of meaningful way. For example, in "legacy" I can select all clips on a timeline that include certain parameters.

I'm simply pointing out that X is still far from finished.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 9, 2013 at 12:24:00 am

[Craig Alan] "Ok I get that, what else ya got?"

Takes too long to explain everything.

I'll just say that the overall trend of experienced editors coming to X from other systems keep coming up with the same basic evaluation.

Their work goes faster.

For me, it's largely the database and magnetism that make my editing flow smoother and I end up being more productive.

There are VERY few voices here from X editors who've stuck with X who don't all say exactly the same thing. When we go back to our former editing processes - we get frustrated and feel we've taken a significant step backwards.

Either we're all just confused, or there's something about X that, once mastered, can make an editor feel a lot more productive.

I KNOW that I get more work done with X than I did with Legacy. By a large factor. But I actually don't have much interest in trying to break that down into specifics to convince others. It seems like a waste of time analyzing it to death. But the voices are getting louder.

On a private Facebook group I was recently invited to join, an LA guy popped up last week posting that their team is using X to process all their digital dailies on a major $100 Million feature shooting overseas - and it's way outperforming their AVID Unity systems and driving major efficiencies for them.

So it appears it's NOT just me and a few others here on the Cow who share the view that X can significantly boost productivity in workflows.

That word seems to be spreading kinda fast.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 9, 2013 at 1:19:38 am

Bill,
I'm not asking you to defend X. I have switched to it and it's the only editing program I am using at this time. I was asking what workflow you use in the browser that has so effectively replaced major steps that previously took place in the timeline. I am not asking to put X down but rather to learn whatever is coming in handy for others in practice. The fact that you find the browser more efficient is not my question. I do too. It's much faster to do a quick sort based on any number of ways X lets you tag files than creating bins inside bins. There are times I'd like the old features but I am faster giving in to the new way of sorting. This is not just an X thing. Modern OS's are building in faster and more helpful sort functions. And it is up to the end user to create the tagging system that works for them. It is also a much more visual presentation and once you are used to it more pleasing an interface.

But every time you comment on someone trying to get a handle on timeline workflow, you tell them that they need to get used to the new way of doing things which means doing the heavy lifting in the browser. But it would be more helpful if you were specific rather than just claiming the person is not giving in to the new way. They are using X so they are not just dismissing it. And since it is a new program people might have legit feature requests without being stuck in the old way. Software is usually best when its both/and not either/or. Apple is known for its three ways to do any given function. Right now X has some 1.5 ways. And other times its just powerful.

Glad to hear of another example of X being used in a higher end project. And I hope it catches on in those circles and continues to improve both in reality and reputation. It has a long way to go to be considered a contender in feature film and broadcast industry.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

alban egger
Re: naming, finding, labelling clips in timeline.. i need to find clips easily visially
on Sep 9, 2013 at 2:16:59 pm

While my workflow is very different I understand your need for coloured clips. We all ask for that since the beginning.

One idea could be to use markers. If you set markers towards the beginning, end and in the middle, you can have three visual distinctions on the timeline.



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]