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RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!

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Craig Seeman
RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 25, 2013 at 3:34:33 pm

RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
http://www.redsharknews.com/post/item/1015-red-gets-huge-gpu-workflow-boost

So I wonder if the new MacPro with dual AMD FirePro will see any benefit given the inability to add a RedRocker internally. I guess we'll find out come IBC.



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Daniel Frome
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 25, 2013 at 11:45:36 pm

From all the models they mention in the "article," this might be a CUDA based solution. For the sake of the new Mac Pro owners, I hope not.


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Michael Gissing
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 2:17:56 am

It would make sense to do CUDA first but it would also make sense to adopt OpenCL, especially when the new MacPros ship.


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Craig Seeman
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 4:40:08 am

I can't help but think the timing of this is related to the upcoming MacPro, given this is one of the major concerns that can impact the MacPro sans any additional 16x PCIe expansion slots. One way or another it's going to be one of the interesting aspects of IBC.



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Ronny Courtens
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 9:52:57 am

If the article is correct that with RedCine-X a single Titan GFX card will be able to handle 6K Dragon footage at 24fps this could indeed be great news for the new MacPro.

Comparative tests show that the Titan GFX and the AMD FirePro9000 (whose specs are the same as the ones that have been mentioned for the GPUs that will be inside the new MP) are very close performance-wise.

As most professional software now supports OpenCL alongside with CUDA it would be extremely hard to believe that RedCine-X would not fully support OpenCL as well. This would mean the new MacPro would be able to handle 6K Dragon at 24fps out of the box without the need for an expensive RedRocket card plugged into an external TB chassis. Interesting development...

- Ronny


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Eric Santiago
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 12:57:58 pm

Jarred has mentioned a Mac version soon.
Sure Im hoping for OpenCL version but we have plenty of CUDA cards as well as ROCKETS in hand.
This is just another option that I welcome to our workflow.
We are all spoiled by the offerings that are available these days.

Oh the days when my 6100 60/AV needed more RAM ;)


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Santiago Martí
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 2:58:40 pm

I think the timing is related to the Dragon 6K format. IF they want to avoid trouble with workflow issues they have to put GPU acceleration on an SDK level so every NLE can benefit from it. I think that is what they did, but at IBC we'll know. I think we'll see 6K native editing in realtime on premiere pro CC for example and grading on Resolve and Scratch using this new SDK, but who knows, let's wait till IBC.

I don't think Red have access to the new MacPro, though they can work for open CL implementation, but Cuda is more important right now. Nvidia's Titan is a beast you can have for 1K, so for the price of a good Quadro or Firepro you can have 2 or 3 Titans on your system.

Early benchmarks of 12 core Xeons don't show that much of an improve on speed so GPU acceleration is a must. OTOH the 10 core Xeons have higher clockspeeds, so for dual proc systems they will be the best option. My next system will be, i think, a dual 10 core Xeon with 2 or 3 Titans with tons of ram.

Santiago Martí
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar
Red One M-X, Red Epic X, Red Pro Primes, Adobe CS6, Assimilate Scratch


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Marcus Moore
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 4:26:05 pm

[Santiago Martí] "Early benchmarks of 12 core Xeons don't show that much of an improve on speed so GPU acceleration is a must."

I'm not sure if these newer benchmarks were posted here- for anyone's interest, much better results than the ones from July (and likely still not accurate to the scores for the final machine)

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/14/upcoming-12-core-xeon-cpu-destined-for-...



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Walter Soyka
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 27, 2013 at 1:51:55 am

[Marcus Moore] "I'm not sure if these newer benchmarks were posted here- for anyone's interest, much better results than the ones from July (and likely still not accurate to the scores for the final machine)"

Do the benchmarks matter?

It'll be the fastest Mac ever, no matter what benchmark you look at. It'll be comparable to comparably-equipped PCs, though finding a comparably-equipped PC will require some customization. It'll lag top of the line PC configurations by embarrassing margins on any benchmark, but these PCs will be bigger, cost serious money, probably lack Thunderbolt, and will not run FCPX.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Marcus Moore
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 27, 2013 at 1:58:58 am

Benchmarks on their own, nope. And these scores are still a few steps removed from what we might see out of the actual Mac hardware anyway.

But with OpenGL being widely adopted on most of the major applications now, it will be interesting to see some app specific testing by guys like Barefeats.

With the CPU, RAM, and GPUs all likely being pretty expensive, maxing out the machine on all front will be pretty costly- so analysis like theirs will likely help a lot of people decide on the best configuration for their specific use case.



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Rick Lang
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 8:04:40 pm

Santiago:
"I don't think Red have access to the new MacPro, though they can work for open CL implementation..."

I think if RED asked, they may well have had lots of support from Apple. One of the strongest concerns with the Mac Pro has been the inability to support external graphics cars, specifically Red Rocket et al, that wouldn't be able to perform adequately over a TB2 link. Can you imagine if the copy for the new Mac Pro, on the day it is released, includes "Firepro OpenCL support for 6K RED at 24fps"? Of course few here would be excited by that because it has already been established clearly the new Mac Pro isn't for pros.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 9:27:35 pm

[Rick Lang] "I think if RED asked, they may well have had lots of support from Apple"

Years ago RED had a one year exclusivity deal with Apple and Apple basically did nothing with it. After the exclusivity ended Avid and PPro pretty quickly rolled out RED compatibility that trumped FCP's even FCP had the head start. A year or so ago RED partnered w/HP to roll out a RED-branded HP Z820 workstation so I don't know how much RED cares about banging on Apple's door anymore.




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Craig Seeman
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 9:33:46 pm

[Andrew Kimery] " don't know how much RED cares about banging on Apple's door anymore."

They're still banging pretty hard given they developed RED plugin with FCPX compatibility.
http://www.red.com/learn/workflow/red-apple-workflow-final-cut-pro-x
and
https://www.red.com/downloads/5086c46b17ef0223980000b3



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Rick Lang
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 10:01:26 pm

Andrew, good information and you may be right but I wonder if the new Apple under Tim Cook will show more interest given the popularity of RED and the desire to showcase the new Mac Pro. I would imaging Resolve 10 will be featured with the rollout, but there may be more pro apps they'd like to have playing in their sandbox using OpenCL.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Andrew Kimery
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 10:50:02 pm

Craig,

I didn't mean to imply that RED was ignoring Apple workflows, just that they might not actively collaborating with Apple behind the scenes like they were a number of years ago. IIRC it was 12-18 months after launch by the time FCPX got RED support was it not?


Rick,
The Apple house under Cook could very well be more cooperative than it was under Jobs. Grant Petty of Blackmagic did sound like he had some behind-the-scenes time w/the new Mac Pro while I don't remember any similar sound bites coming from the RED team.




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Marcus Moore
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 27, 2013 at 12:24:29 am

I think poor timing might have been the issue there. If the events are right in my head- even if the dev team wasn't already working on what would become FCPX, they knew they were going to be recoding from scratch after 64bit carbon support was formally dropped in 2007. This also lead to the lack-luster 2009 release of FCS3 (which would have been 64 bit well before the competition along with Logic).

Realizing they would have been writing a RED workflow for a dead platform, they probably couldn't justify any serious development.

It's a theory anyway.



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Lance Bachelder
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 26, 2013 at 9:17:34 pm

I concur - my own casual testing of a FirePro W7000 vs. GTX570 with Premiere CC on a Win 7 system shows nVidia (CUDA) kicking AMD's (OpenCL) butt.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Walter Soyka
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 27, 2013 at 1:41:22 am

Speculating about an unreleased RED product and an unreleased Apple product together, in the same thread? That's like crossing the streams!

Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Marcus Moore
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 27, 2013 at 2:00:16 am

Total protonic reversal..!



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Andrew Kimery
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 27, 2013 at 5:09:08 am

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!




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Rick Lang
Re: dSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 27, 2013 at 6:23:27 pm

Andrew:
"Human sacrifice..."

Like that idea. Now that deserves its own (not too serious) thread. I'm sure we all have a few sacrifices we would gladly offer to the gods, as long as they are not self-sacrifices.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Dan Stewart
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Aug 27, 2013 at 9:51:50 pm

Important safety tip thanks Walter.



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Daniel Frome
Re: RedSharkNews: RED gets huge GPU workflow boost!
on Sep 17, 2013 at 1:52:24 pm

I thought I would revisit this thread, since now the news has official broke.

The new Redcine-X will support OpenCL and CUDA. OpenCL is supposed now, while CUDA support will come in October. One interesting note is that "CUDA we see a further boost in performance," stated directly from the RED website.


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