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Andy Field
10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 3:54:33 am

http://vimeo.com/m/72382264

This is from retooled.net


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Mark Dobson
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 9:00:46 am

As someone who switched from FCP7 to FCPX over 2 years ago I watched the linked clip with interest.

It just all looks so square, inelegant and old fashioned compared to the way that FCPX works, very techy and and unintuitive to my eye.

Many of the tips that are shown really demonstrate that FCPX is really ahead of the game, that many of of the setups are done automatically, how much is under the hood.

And surely Hover Scrub is direct copy from FCPX, but in a very pedantic way that misses out on the metadata features offered by FCPX Event Library.

So despite many frustrations of working with FCPX I'm really glad that I took that route, rather than slipping back into the over complex workflow of the FCP7 + world of Premiere and fingers crossed I won't have to take up a subscription to continue using FCPX.


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Bret Williams
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 1:20:49 pm

That's how I felt when I read the list of new features for Premiere CC. The vast majority of features were nothing new to legacy or Avid. Many of them had been in legacy or Avid for 10 or 15 years.


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Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 2:04:03 pm

I'm teaching a class on Premiere tomorrow and I absolutely despise using it! I switched to it (Pr) for about five months from 10.0 to 10.0.3, and reviewing it for this guest lecture has me going nuts. It's for a group of photography students that have 0 experience with video. These kids don't know what a codec is, they don't care about timeline format, they just want to tell a story, i.e. edit. I'm doing it as a favor for a friend, and their lab doesn't have X so it's not even a real option for them, but I'll sure as hell mention that for my work, I prefer X.

______________________________

FCP X Certified Pro, Level Two
______________________________


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Bill Davis
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 3:59:44 pm

Now guys, lets be nice.

After all, going over the Creative Cloud or Not - the Debate - and posting "10 things about FCP-X that have made editing fun for me again!" - would be needlessly cruel.

Plus who has the time to spend cutting the list down to just 10?

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Andy Field
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 7:05:19 pm

Sorry, I did not realize this was Final Cut Pro X, I drank the Kool-Aid forum


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Steve Connor
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 7:18:04 pm

[Andy Field] "Sorry, I did not realize this was Final Cut Pro X, I drank the Kool-Aid forum
"


Well now you know

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Walter Soyka
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 8:25:20 pm

[Nicholas Zimmerman] "I'm teaching a class on Premiere tomorrow and I absolutely despise using it! ... I'm doing it as a favor for a friend, and their lab doesn't have X so it's not even a real option for them, but I'll sure as hell mention that for my work, I prefer X."

I do hope you're able to represent Premiere fairly nonetheless. It's a nice app, even if it's not your favorite. There are pros and cons to every NLE on the market. Send your students here and we can all evangelize away :)

Personally, I'd agree that FCPX is a good choice for a non-technical editor. I like its focus on the relationship between clips, which is the essence of how most editors constructs a story.

That said...


[Nicholas Zimmerman] "It's for a group of photography students that have 0 experience with video. These kids don't know what a codec is, they don't care about timeline format, they just want to tell a story, i.e. edit."

Let's turn this around.

"It's for a group of editorial students that have 0 experience with photography. These kids don't know what a lens is, they don't care about shooting JPEG versus RAW, they just want to take pictures, i.e., be photographers."

I think photography students would be disgusted, because this approach totally minimizes the technology of photography, the control of which is central to the art.

We shouldn't seek to fully eliminate understanding of technology from technical/artistic endeavors. Like chocolate and peanut butter, they're better together.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 8:50:40 pm

[Walter Soyka] "We shouldn't seek to fully eliminate understanding of technology from technical/artistic endeavors. Like chocolate and peanut butter, they're better together."

I was going to respond in a much harsher fashion, as unfortunately is my wont. Your elegance is appreciated.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Gary Huff
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 3:59:45 am

[Herb Sevush] "I was going to respond in a much harsher fashion, as unfortunately is my wont."

I would sum up my appreciation of Walter's point with this: One should never be proud of ignorance.

I should also add that I had some work I shot edited by someone who was described to me as being an excellent editor...and my 16:9 video was rendered out as a squished 4:3...does that kind of ignorance help or hinder "art"?


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Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 12:24:39 am

I'll certainly give Premiere a fair shake, and tell them about MC as well. I did a few projects in Premiere right after the release of X, and liked it well enough. If somebody came up to me and said "I'm looking for a powerful editor and I WILL NOT USE X, depending on their experience level and familiarity with 7, I'd recommend Premiere over Avid. I've actually recommended it in the last month to a buddy of mine who is a Windows user looking to make tutorial videos.

______________________________

FCP X Certified Pro, Level Two
______________________________


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Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 12:35:41 am

Forgot to mention that I now loath using it for my projects. I can't stand going back to the old way, and really do feel that it's a slower, much more obtuse way to edit. That doesn't mean it's awful though, I've just moved beyond it and don't want to go back to the way I used to do things. For Windows users it's leagues ahead of most of the competition, and much simpler to learn than MC.

______________________________

FCP X Certified Pro, Level Two
______________________________


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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 4:18:04 pm

[Bret Williams] " The vast majority of features were nothing new to legacy or Avid. Many of them had been in legacy or Avid for 10 or 15 years."

Native handling of all video types, sync via waveform, built in closed captioning, GPU enhanced effects, dynamic linking to AE and Photoshop yes indeed , all have been in Legacy and Avid for at least 15 years.

The big difference between X and PPro is that after 2 full years of restoring features that actually have been in every NLE for the last 10 years X still can't handle tape, or output OMF or EDLs. So Apples big advance is in not caring enough to try to fix what's wrong, I guess Adobe should learn from them.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Andy Field
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 7:36:22 pm

Herb, settle down and drink the Kool Aid.


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Bill Davis
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 8:07:44 pm

[Herb Sevush] "X still can't handle tape, or output OMF or EDLs."

It also doesn't read punched tape, require you to feed it Bosco, or require a groom to regularly curry it's hide with a wire brush.

So what?

X is clearly not so very much concerned with trying to remain ideally compatible with the way editing has traditionally been done - so If you need to continue editing just like you always have - don't use it.

OTOH, if you can move along and check out if there might be some new and interesting thinking when it comes to modern file based content manipulation - then you might want to check it out.

Nothing more complex going on here than that.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 8:55:54 pm

[Bill Davis] "It also doesn't read punched tape, require you to feed it Bosco, or require a groom to regularly curry it's hide with a wire brush."

Two things Bill.

One - I was responding to an idiotic posting claiming that Avid could do what PPro does now 15 years ago, and then relating that to the superiority of X over PPro. In that context i do believe it fair to point out that X still can't do what Avid actually could do 15 years ago, adn stil does today.

Two - If your editing workflow requires Bosco, then I guess we have bigger differences than choice of NLE.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bret Williams
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 10:57:37 pm

Never once did I mention FCP X in my brief comment. Nor did I extrapolate or relate to X in any way. In fact, we're referring to a video (one of many) that retooled has made demonstrating new features and tips for FCP 7 switchers that are moving on to Premiere. The list of features I'm referring to isn't the list you copied and pasted from Adobe's web site. They know better than to focus on things like the crop tool now has feathering as a new feature. Although it is. However they do go nuts about things like the clip audio mixer (or whatever they call it). A feature than has been in Avid AT LEAST since 1996 when I began using it, and probably since 1993 really. Things like removing match frame edits are features that are new too. It didn't have that? Things like linked selection. That's NEW? Media management and other new features are basically lifted from the FCP legacy feature set as well. Which is all wonderful for someone looking for a legacy replacement. Looks like CC is finally getting there. It just blows me away when I see these videos from retooled showing just how far behind Premiere was until recently. I had always assumed it was always just as capable as legacy, but that legacy was just more popular. But I guess there was good reason we weren't using Premiere back then-

Some stuff I didn't realize it didn't include until CC that adobe lists as new features-
duplicate frame detection.
linked selection
snapping razor tool
clip mixer
paste attributes
join through edits
copy of a range
custom # of undos
shortcuts to nudge clip position in the canvas(program)
soft sub clips (can extend past subclip limits)
customizeable timeline elements (turn on/off markers, through edits, etc)
marker duration
render selection (not range, but selected clips - but still renders the range in-between)
feathered crop
keyboard shortcuts for adjusting volume of clips
switch between video and audio waveforms in source monitor
keyboard shortcuts to change pan
ability to toggle audio scrubbing on/off

Maybe all this stuff isn't needed to accomplish an edit. A lot is still missing from X that's for sure. I'm just saying I am amazed it wasn't already included.


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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 11:17:50 pm

[Bret Williams] "Never once did I mention FCP X in my brief comment."

No, but you were referencing directly this comment:

"So despite many frustrations of working with FCPX I'm really glad that I took that route, rather than slipping back into the over complex workflow of the FCP7 + world of Premiere and fingers crossed I won't have to take up a subscription to continue using FCPX."

Claiming you weren't comparing PPro to X is the definition of the word disingenuous.

[Bret Williams] "The list of features I'm referring to isn't the list you copied and pasted from Adobe's web site."

That list came off the top of my head. I'm sure if I bothered to go to the Adobe website I could come up with 20 more features that would blow Legacy away. And, for your general edification, I'm not a PPro editor, I haven't used it since version 1.5.

The video is not a list of PPro's best features, it was specifically made for Legacy editors as a compare and contrast, to get them used to working with PPro. It should not be surprising then that so much of it seems so familiar and uninspiring, it was never meant as a best hits list.

And yes PPro lacked a lot of things until recently. But they have them now, because someone at Adobe actually asked editors what they wanted and then delivered.

When you take in the totality of the Adobe production suite, X looks rather puny indeed. I don't know about you but I use AE and PHotoshop on a regular basis. Wouldn't it be nice if you could link directly to them -- well X can't but guess who can. Hell you can't even link to Motion anymore.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Marcus Moore
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 11:57:56 pm

I wish we could get away from this "listening to editors" circular logic in reference to X.

You can't get feedback from users to create something which doesn't exist yet.

Did the FCPX development team listen to customers when coming up with the core concepts of the magnetic timeline, connected clips, or trackless timeline? No, of course they couldn't. Because they were trying to define some key differences in methodology between the way legacy and X were going to function. You can't ask for directions when you're hacking a new path thru the jungle.

This is the decision they made.

But in refining FCPX thru 9 updates over the past 2 years, has the dev team listened to people who've used the software, and updated it to make it better for editors. Absolutely. Everything they've added back has made it a better, more professional Final Cut Pro X.

Apple does listen. But they're also not simply reactionary. FCP8 would have obviously been a simpler sell. They HAD to know they were taking a huge risk.

2 years later, from where I sit, I think their gamble will ultimately pay off. I know for a fact that I have reaped enormous rewards from FCPX in terms of my productivity and profitability. Right now the tool set encompasses my needs, but not everyones. I feel pretty confident that as the feature-set grows and deepens, the core strengths of the software will apply to more and more workflows.

I couldn't have asked Apple for FCPX 2 years ago, but 2 years later I'm sure glad they didn't ask me!



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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 1:42:20 pm

[Marcus Moore] "I wish we could get away from this "listening to editors" circular logic in reference to X.

You can't get feedback from users to create something which doesn't exist yet."


That was not the case here. It has been established that Apple previewed X to some experienced editors, whose negative feedback went unheeded. Companies do user testing all the time on new products, especially new categories of products. The idea that Apple was creating something so new that they couldn't get feedback on it is simply false. What is true is that Apple as a company doesn't seek outside feedback as a philosophy, a philosophy which has worked for them up till now. Whether that winning streak continues, and whether X is part of that streak or marks the end of it is what this forum is all about.

[Marcus Moore] "But in refining FCPX thru 9 updates over the past 2 years, has the dev team listened to people who've used the software, and updated it to make it better for editors. Absolutely. Everything they've added back has made it a better, more professional Final Cut Pro X."

Remember the white paper they released right after the X-bomb broke, the one that detailed the list of features that they were going to add and the timetable that went with it. While I give Kudos to Apple for keeping their promises it is obvious that they made that list without getting feedback from anyone. In other words most of the upgrades were pre-determined before they ever released X, with the release being a sort of Alpha version. Multicam, XML - none of it came from user feedback. I realize that they have responded to certain complaints, like for non-disappearing in and out points, but I think it's fair to say that up to this point most of the upgrades have been either bug and stability fixes, or features they realized needed to be put back in before release. This is not what I think of as listening to feedback.

[Marcus Moore] "I know for a fact that I have reaped enormous rewards from FCPX in terms of my productivity and profitability. Right now the tool set encompasses my needs, but not everyones. I feel pretty confident that as the feature-set grows and deepens, the core strengths of the software will apply to more and more workflows."

I have no argument with anything you say here. I am eagerly awaiting the next big release to see which way they intend to grow the software. I'm glad it works for you and have no doubt that it works for many. Given that it does have the best multi-cam feature on the market it would not shock me to find myself switching to it in the coming year, depending on how things progress.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Stew Fyfe
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 19, 2013 at 2:55:01 pm

Bret,

I agree a lot of that stuff is useful, and I miss it in Premiere 6, but a few of the things you listed are actually there:

- Snapping razor tool (the visualization of it could be better)
- Linked selection (though you can't toggle it globally, which is a pain - I just leave it on and hold Option when I need to toggle it off)
- Paste attributes (though with less granularity than FCP7)
- Copy of a range - there's a way to do this using lift ( ; ), which puts the range from In to Out on the clipboard, and undo, which heals the extraction, but leaves the copied range on the clipboard. It's pretty easy.
- Marker duration
- Switch between video and audio waveforms in source monitor - you need to set up keys for this
- Toggle audio scrubbing on/off - you need to set up a key for this as well


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Chris Harlan
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 19, 2013 at 7:48:59 pm

[Stew Fyfe] "- Linked selection (though you can't toggle it globally, which is a pain - I just leave it on and hold Option when I need to toggle it off)"

Yeah! I'd like to see that changed in Pr, as well.


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Stew Fyfe
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 19, 2013 at 11:47:38 pm

That's probably the number one annoyance for me, in terms of basic, cut to cut editing tasks. Well, that and the whole patching system (though I've got some keys set up to help with that as well.)


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Chris Harlan
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 20, 2013 at 12:37:42 am

[Stew Fyfe] "That's probably the number one annoyance for me, in terms of basic, cut to cut editing tasks. Well, that and the whole patching system (though I've got some keys set up to help with that as well.)
"


Oh yeah. Me too. I also find the patching a little uncomfortable. I don't quite have down yet, the way I do with Avid, and I wish it were more visible, though that may be that I haven't quite worked out a color scheme yet.


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Bill Davis
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 15, 2013 at 11:43:04 pm

[Herb Sevush] "In that context i do believe it fair to point out that X still can't do what Avid actually could do 15 years ago, adn stil does today.
"


15 years ago, the AVID workflow held code to allow one to parse the signals from an RS-232 port.

Not sure if it can do that today.

The point is that anyone can cherry pick "abilities" that NLE X does that NLE Y does not.

The real issue is whether that ability is still in demand.

My overarching point is that there are quite a few things in the class of "important to editors like Herb" but that do NOT intersect on the Venn diagram that shows "needs of modern digital video editors in general"

You have got to admit that one large section of this whole nearly two year debate is coming from editors who simplyl don't want to have to change ANYTHING about how they edit.

And for them. It's admittedly a difficult time.

Just less so for the editors who find it easier to change direction if they so choose.

And so it goes.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Andy Field
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 12:24:22 am

Guys, Guys.....you love FCP X -- great -- but why does everything have to be disparaging of other options?

I posted that video that started this because this is the FCP X or NOT debate....the or NOT includes all other NLE's including AVID and Premiere Pro CC - which I use every day and it light years speedier and more useful than FCP 7

I've tried to love X.....just doesn't fit my style -- doesn't make the folks who use and like it ogres..... I only forwarded that excellent TOP 10 differences between FCP 7 and PP CC for people interested....and yet it was a springboard to another flame war....

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Andrew Kimery
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 12:38:33 am

[Marcus Moore] "Did the FCPX development team listen to customers when coming up with the core concepts of the magnetic timeline, connected clips, or trackless timeline? No, of course they couldn't. Because they were trying to define some key differences in methodology between the way legacy and X were going to function. You can't ask for directions when you're hacking a new path thru the jungle.
"


If I remember correctly they did ask a few select people for feedback (one of these editor's gave a demo at LAFCPUG a couple of years ago but I can't remember his name) and the feedback was promptly ignored. Like you said, Apple had a vision and the stuck to it. I'd imagine the requested feedback was more to gauge reaction than for shaping the software.


[Andy Field] "... why does everything have to be disparaging of other options?"

Because it's the Internet?




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Marcus Moore
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 1:09:25 am

[Andrew Kimery] "If I remember correctly they did ask a few select people for feedback (one of these editor's gave a demo at LAFCPUG a couple of years ago but I can't remember his name) and the feedback was promptly ignored. Like you said, Apple had a vision and the stuck to it. I'd imagine the requested feedback was more to gauge reaction than for shaping the software."

I know who you're talking about, but I can't remember his name either. That initial preview event was in February of 2011. FCPX was demoed at NAB in April, and launched in July.

I think, realistically, it wasn't that his feedback was ignored so much as there wasn't time to implement it before launch. It would be interesting to go back and see how much of that feedback has been implemented now.

While I think most of FCPX's new methodology works very well, IF 10.1 is as big an update as some are theorizing (it having been a year since the last feature update), this will be the time to see if there are any major "course corrections" back to Legacy ideas. We might have already seen Apple do this by bring back the Program monitor (though that could have always been part of their plan, we'll never know for sure), and I'm sure if ultimately one aspect or another of FCPX just isn't working out the way they have planned, I don't doubt for a minute that they'll fix it. For instance, there's been a lot of people wondering if the advantages of Event/Project structure outweigh the disadvantages.



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Andrew Kimery
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 1:45:37 am

[Marcus Moore] "I know who you're talking about, but I can't remember his name either. That initial preview event was in February of 2011. FCPX was demoed at NAB in April, and launched in July.

I think, realistically, it wasn't that his feedback was ignored so much as there wasn't time to implement it before launch. It would be interesting to go back and see how much of that feedback has been implemented now."


After some Googling I think I'm thinking of Michael Wohl (who was one of the original guys behind FCP way back in the day). I thought I remember him telling a story about seeing the software about a year before it's release and getting a "well take your thoughts into consideration" response when let Apple know they'd probably end up with a riot on their hands. lol

All this is water under the bridge though and your overall point is correct. Apple wanted to chart new waters and 'peer review' isn't much of an option when you want to do something no one else is doing.




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Brett Sherman
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:01:41 pm

[Andy Field] "Guys, Guys.....you love FCP X -- great -- but why does everything have to be disparaging of other options?"

I'm not sure anyone is being disparaging. But when you post 10 great Premiere tips on an FCP X or Not forum, I don't think you should be surprised when people analyze that and compare it to FCP X - favorably or otherwise. I don't see how anyone stepped over the line.



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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 4:19:10 am

[Bill Davis] "The point is that anyone can cherry pick "abilities" that NLE X does that NLE Y does not. "

True that, but it's an argument that cuts both ways.

[Bill Davis] "The real issue is whether that ability is still in demand."

Absolutely. As opposed to whatever you do with Bosco, editors all over the country are still getting paid for tape ingest, tape delivery, OMF delivery and EDL delivery. The day will come when that is no longer true, but that day was not two years ago, it's not now, and it won't be next year.

[Bill Davis] "My overarching point is that there are quite a few things in the class of "important to editors like Herb" but that do NOT intersect on the Venn diagram that shows "needs of modern digital video editors in general""

Bill, you don't know what the needs of "modern digital video editors in general" are and neither do I. I know my needs, and the needs of the editors I work with and the same is true for you. The simple fact is that FCPX cannot create those deliverables at this point without going thru some silly third party workarounds. I would like to see your list of deliverables that Avid and PPro can't satisfy - not processes, not tools, but actual client paid deliverables.

[Bill Davis] "You have got to admit that one large section of this whole nearly two year debate is coming from editors who simplyl don't want to have to change ANYTHING about how they edit."

First of all it's my clients who determine my workflow and I don't get to tell them what I should and should not deliver. There are many things about the way I edit that I want to change, but unfortunately none of my options match my desires. FCP was never my ideal, it was simply the best of a bad lot at the time discreet *edit was EOL'd. My ideal NLE has not yet appeared. When it does, I'll change in a flash.

[Bill Davis] " It's admittedly a difficult time. Just less so for the editors who find it easier to change direction if they so choose."

The idea that X is supported by the daring adventurous few is but one of the many myths you keep repeating to make yourself feel important.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Ronny Courtens
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 8:46:15 am

I didn't find this video interesting at all. I seriously think it would make more sense to post it on the PP forums instead. FCP people who seek info about PP usually would go over there in the first place. Or even better: they would give it a serious test-run and see for themselves if it fits their workflow or not. Personal experience is still much more convincing in the long run than internet blabber, as we all have witnessed with FCPX.

And while we are at it: this whole "FCPX Or Not" debate has really lost its meaning anyway. It has become quite obvious now that FCPX is here to stay and that it is rapidly gaining acceptance and popularity with a broad range of professionals and semi-professionals alike. Accept it and get over it. I hear more and more people say that they have been wrong about FCPX, although it clearly still is a work in progress. And I have the greatest respect for them. You would be surprised to see how many posters I have been assisting recently on another forum, who are learning FCPX while they currently use PP CC. One NLE does not necessarily exclude the other anyway.

As I said in another thread I could consider adding MC7 to our workflow when our film and broadcast shops come under the same roof next year. I think at this time Avid MC7 and FCPX combined offer the best of both worlds to serve a broad client base. Both excel in specific features that the other is missing or hasn't fully developed yet. But before deciding anything I will wait and see what the end of this year brings for FCPX. Just like Herb I would love to see that one magical NLE that excels in every single feature any editor would ever want. But this NLE does not exist, and it probably never will.

- Ronny


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Mark Dobson
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 11:42:42 am

[Ronny Courtens] "And while we are at it: this whole "FCPX Or Not" debate has really lost its meaning anyway."

It's the debate part of it that makes it interesting. A lot of editors still see FCPX as a very substandard offering when compared to FCP7, PP, Avid or the other NLE's available out there.

I have heard that many FCP7 users still find it the best option for them and are quite happy to continue using it. I would admit to a high degree of skepticism when I first downloaded FCPX and my initial reaction was 'is that all there is?', but as each update rolled out, and the plugin and support software hit the market it has become a real contender to provide broadcast and other top end solutions.

I think that, with quite a few editors railing against Adobes new business and delivery model, the FCPX or not debate is still pretty relevant.


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Ronny Courtens
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 12:31:15 pm

[Mark Dobson] "It's the debate part of it that makes it interesting... it has become a real contender to provide broadcast and other top end solutions."

Good point. And now that I think of it: opinions about FCPX have indeed changed a lot since this debate started. So yes, I agree.

- Ronny


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Bernard Newnham
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 1:39:11 pm

[Nicholas Zimmerman] " These kids don't know what a codec is, they don't care about timeline format, they just want to tell a story, i.e. edit. "

I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but the refusal of people to accept that they've got to learn a bit of technology to do a job seems to be endemic here in the UK. I used to run DV camera courses at the BBC, and the first thing I asked was "Who gave up physics at 15 and never wanted to see it again?". Almost all hands - on this course for assistant producers - would go up. "Well, tough" I would say. These days I explain to students that Rembrandt would not have been able to paint that way unless he had learned a lot about paint creation and the use of canvas first. "Who's Rembrandt?" is generally the reply.

You can't "just edit" in the same way as you can't just take good photos. You have to have training, knowledge, aptitude and application for both. And not knowing what a codec is means that when they've finished their amazing edit they won't know what to do with it.

Teach them properly or don't teach them at all. And if they can't hack a proper editing system of whatever kind, point them at Windows Movie Maker or iMovie.

Bernie


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Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 4:34:21 pm

While I'd typically agree, this is only a three hour course where I have to get them from ingest to delivery. They're actually quite eager to learn, but they are at the point now where they still aren't sure why they have to shoot RAW instead of JPEG. They'll get there, but it's not like I'm going to have time to go teach them GOP structures or transcoding. Personally I'd rather this was a full course where I could ensure everyone got at least the basics of each part of post.

______________________________

FCP X Certified Pro, Level Two
______________________________


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David Eaks
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 1:39:40 pm

A couple days ago the Terence and Philip show did a short episode about Adobe CC, if anyone is interested-

http://www.theterenceandphilipshow.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 19, 2013 at 9:38:54 pm

[David Eaks] "A couple days ago the Terence and Philip show did a short episode about Adobe CC, if anyone is interested-

http://www.theterenceandphilipshow.com
"


However much I learn, I am always vaguely disappointed that the link doesn't take me to the gaseous Canadian cartoon Comedians.

Good discussion, though.


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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 19, 2013 at 11:09:48 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Good discussion, though."

Except for the part where they get the whole "saving to CS6" feature wrong, intimating that it works for more than AE. This is how the misinformation begins.

and also the fact that they sound like Adobe salespeople.

other than that, good discussion.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Chris Harlan
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 20, 2013 at 12:40:07 am

[Herb Sevush] "Except for the part where they get the whole "saving to CS6" feature wrong, intimating that it works for more than AE. This is how the misinformation begins.
"


Ah! I've got that wrong, too. I thought it worked that way for Pr, as well. Bummer.


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Mark Dobson
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 1:41:12 pm

I have to say that dipping into a forum is for me a work displacement activity, something to do whilst waiting for rendering . . . which just get faster and faster!


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Bill Davis
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 5:28:47 pm

[Herb Sevush] "The simple fact is that FCPX cannot create those deliverables at this point without going thru some silly third party workarounds. I would like to see your list of deliverables that Avid and PPro can't satisfy - not processes, not tools, but actual client paid deliverables. "

OK, here you go. Both AVOID and PPro can't "satisfy" my now required "deliverable" of a NLE that leaves your work connected to an on-line output file so I don't have to waste endless time doing "work-arounds" in order to refresh a public copy of a newly produced video directly from the NLE - when the client suddenly discovers that they want tweaks and changes two days after they told me that the deliverable was "perfect" and exactly what they were hoping for.

Seriously, any program that can't do anything smarter than pooping out a disconnected "master" to your desktop - so you can shuffle it over to a whole 'nother disconnected delivery stream be that plastic disc, mylar or spinning disk - is a massive and tiresome "workaround" in my book.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Walter Soyka
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 5:33:21 pm

[Bill Davis] "Both AVOID and PPro can't "satisfy" my now required "deliverable" of a NLE that leaves your work connected to an on-line output file so I don't have to waste endless time doing "work-arounds" in order to refresh a public copy of a newly produced video directly from the NLE - when the client suddenly discovers that they want tweaks and changes two days after they told me that the deliverable was "perfect" and exactly what they were hoping for."

Bill, can you walk me through how this works and what you mean by "connected to an on-line output file?"

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Bill Davis
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 10:07:05 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Bill, can you walk me through how this works and what you mean by "connected to an on-line output file?""

My day before yesterday was all about this.

Music video in final approval stage with client and artist and record company. We sat down last Fri and made changes. From X I hit the Vimeo "send" button. It's uploads to the service. I email them the link. Then Monday, a few small changes. From the same timeline, I hit SEND again, but this time, I just range select the part under discussion that they had a minor change to and directly email it to them from my Storyline. They call back that it's perfect. So I hit the Vimeo feed Share again and replace the old one with the new one. Then Wed, they find something ELSE small to change. Repete the process. At the end of it all, what I have is a CURRENT file in my Vimeo Pro account that everyone around the world has access to with the proper password. For incremental changes, the file that I'm working on in X can email out small review files in one step. Vimeo lets me replace old versions with new ones as needed. X maintains all my current export account logins and passwords within the software. So it's a single menu choice only.

The work on my desktop in X remains connected by simple clicks to agile deployment to my clients - as needed - and everytime I change anything, it's a click or two to reflesh the Vimeo and/or YouTube "published" versions - or email out a review copy.

Couldn't be simpler. AND if I'm working on something else when a simple change order comes in - I can just switch projects to get it done without having to close and open anything but the tab in the Project Library.

Couldn't be much easier unless maybe they build a voice command front end on it.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Gary Huff
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 11:58:12 pm

[Bill Davis] "At the end of it all, what I have is a CURRENT file in my Vimeo Pro account that everyone around the world has access to with the proper password. For incremental changes, the file that I'm working on in X can email out small review files in one step. Vimeo lets me replace old versions with new ones as needed. X maintains all my current export account logins and passwords within the software. So it's a single menu choice only."

I've been doing this in Premiere for the last two years, sans export via the menu...but then I get greater control of what I want to export on a per-project basis, a tradeoff I like (I routinely have to export via Compressor anyway for a lot of what I do...I have deliverables based on an internal web interface that FCPX doesn't have a listing for).


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Walter Soyka
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 20, 2013 at 5:06:27 pm

Buckle up -- exciting two-pronged post ahead! I've got some specific FCPX/Vimeo workflow questions followed by a brief but surely scintillating soliloquy on Adobe metadata.

[Bill Davis] "Music video in final approval stage with client and artist and record company. We sat down last Fri and made changes. From X I hit the Vimeo "send" button. It's uploads to the service. I email them the link. Then Monday, a few small changes. From the same timeline, I hit SEND again, but this time, I just range select the part under discussion that they had a minor change to and directly email it to them from my Storyline. They call back that it's perfect. So I hit the Vimeo feed Share again and replace the old one with the new one. Then Wed, they find something ELSE small to change. Repete the process. At the end of it all, what I have is a CURRENT file in my Vimeo Pro account that everyone around the world has access to with the proper password. For incremental changes, the file that I'm working on in X can email out small review files in one step. Vimeo lets me replace old versions with new ones as needed. X maintains all my current export account logins and passwords within the software. So it's a single menu choice only."

VIMEO

Bill, I guess one of the things I'm confused about is why you say the Vimeo file is connected, but the desktop files are disconnected. Isn't the link to Vimeo one-way (FCPX to Vimeo) and one-time (after its uploaded, FCPX has no memory of it)?

I'm also trying to understand your Vimeo workflow. If I share a video to Vimeo, then make a change to a video in FCPX and share it out to Vimeo again, it makes a new file with a new link. If I want to update the video at the original link, I have to upload a new video file from the web interface. I can't seem to just point it to another file already uploaded from FCPX. Am I missing something?

Another point I might be missing: from your description I thought that the Share to Vimeo feature could help me email the link. Do you still have to go to the Vimeo website to get that link or is there another way?

Again, I might be misunderstanding, but I think I have exactly this same workflow in Premiere Pro today with Vimeo's DropBox sync. I export from Premiere to my local DropBox folder, DropBox syncs it without me doing a thing, then Vimeo grabs it from DropBox. I should add that I can also use this in conjunction with Adobe Media Encoder's watch folders feature for some very powerful workflows.

I'm sure this counts as a third-party workaround, but it's totally transparent to the user. Vimeo is also apparently considering FTP upload, which Adobe Media Encoder supports natively.



METADATA

I know you're very interested in metadata, so I think you'll find this tidbit about Adobe workflows interesting: the "desktop files" are not disconnected (unless you want them to be)!

They actually store a link to the project file that created them as metadata. In Premiere, if I right-click a media asset and choose "Edit Original," it will open that After Effects project or the Premiere Pro project that created it.

In other words, I can use the exported, compressed file to open the original project from which it was exported.

Also, source metadata actually flows through the production.

I can work on something in Photoshop, bring it into After Effects for motion, render it out, import it into Premiere, and export a compressed H.264 MP4 from Pr. The path and filenames of that PSD and AEP can be preserved all the way through to the final MP4's embedded XMP metadata. It's not just Adobe stuff, either -- I can also keep any embedded or associated source metadata from any asset (keywords, track numbers, etc.). Of course, all this can be controlled via Premiere's Metadata button in the export window, or via Adobe Bridge.

While smart bins in Premiere would be a very welcome addition, Adobe's metadata system is already a lot more powerful than I think most people realize.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Bill Davis
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Oct 21, 2013 at 12:44:50 am

[Walter Soyka] "Bill, I guess one of the things I'm confused about is why you say the Vimeo file is connected, but the desktop files are disconnected. Isn't the link to Vimeo one-way (FCPX to Vimeo) and one-time (after its uploaded, FCPX has no memory of it)?
"


To me, the Share function is at the end of the production process. I don't really think I'd value a "bi-directional" connection to my publishing entity at that stage. I want my "versioning" to live inside my editing system - until I elect to export them. That's when it should be "connected", IMO, directly from the timeline to the playout service. If I ever set up a server, that might change. But for now, it's what I need and it works fine.

So I guess I can't currently can't see the purpose in a live two way connection. I suspose if I wanted Vimeo to report sales figures or downloads back into X maybe? But I already kinda hate software that tries to be all things to all users, so a tracking back end isn't on my radar at this point.

[Walter Soyka] "Again, I might be misunderstanding, but I think I have exactly this same workflow in Premiere Pro today with Vimeo's DropBox sync."

Might be similar, I don't know. I just know it's been a useful workflow for me for the past year. If CC has allowed something similar, good for them. It's a great way to work.


[Walter Soyka] "I can work on something in Photoshop, bring it into After Effects for motion, render it out, import it into Premiere, and export a compressed H.264 MP4 from Pr."

Look, I totally "get" the Adobe suite interactivity. Their process is to bundle half a dozen very effective apps into a robust array and let the user learn each, how each interacts with the other. What tool to use when, and it's inarguable that each of those tools is astonishingly rich and incredibly well developed.

And if you can tolerate the "opt out" rather than "opt in" payment system that keeps your bank account tethered to your working tools and auto debits you for the privilege of having those tools at the ready (irrespective of whether or not you actually use some or all of them this month!) it's a great system. Great for updates, great for development, certainly great for Adobe since they get paid whether or not anyone actually launches their tools! Sweet business model! Customers must pay this month - for the same thing they had installed LAST month - giving the vendor the power to deliver something fresh or not at the companies sole discretion. At a theoretical level, Adobe could take the whole company on a month long cruise and their CC sales would remain totally constant. Business HEAVEN!

Obviously, Adobe is a fine company. And they deliver great products.But as noted by many, this CC thing is NOT a customer "value add" in any way no matter how you slice it. It's completely consistent with what a commercial company is required by law to do. Maximize shareholder value by all means possible.

Again, I'm unqualified to opine on the quality or suitability of any software other than X.

And X is still totally kicking butt for me.

As I posted elsewhere, I was able to use X to manage and edit the NATAS Rocky Mountain Emmy Awards show that was held last night. The nature of the gig is kinda an orgaztional nightmare - 700 video submissions - 130 winners - clips submitted in formats all over the map. Categories galore where clip snippits and celebrity intro clips and titles and production questions like "Are you sure we already have clip 94-304 in the second montage" are the order of the day.

And X sailed through it like an Ellison boat in the America's Cup.

Three simple four hour edit sessions to organize, edit, assemble, title, announce and master all the assets for what turned into a nearly 4 hour live show.

And the producer and I had time to laugh and tell stories and get to know each other during the process cuz the editing was never, ever an issue.

One point, Walter, is that the whole X "Project Library" concept of everything on and live was one of the big wins. We could scroll through and skim any or all of our deliverable play outs without closing or opening anything and tweek and "re-publish" at will - including searching and sorting for included or missing clips with an ease that got more and more important as the complexity rose.

And on the output end, was able to VERSION to the Finals Folder so easily. A Quicktime master for the archive. Then stay in the Project Library to re-compress the same file into an H-264 encode for Filezilla to the FTP site. And those expoerts queue in batches, so I could skim or play, approve, export and move to the next, while X did the multiple encodings under the hood. Never even had to open Compressor.

The only "Second step", was to drag the H-264 encodes into Filezilla, for FTP delivery to the Arizona Cardinals Stadium system for playback.

Hundreds of varying video files in - dozens upon dozens out - tight production schedules - limited producer face time -revisions, changes, the whole shooting match - to be displayed to a few hundred of the top television people in the market for their big annual awards show - all the video work done on one laptop -with $300 worth of (gratefully!) owned software.

I'm an increasingly happy editor. Gig after gig after gig.

As I'm sure others are with other NLE choices.

But X rocks. And the more complexity the project seems to have - the MORE it rocks.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 10:50:50 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Bill, can you walk me through how this works and what you mean by "connected to an on-line output file?""

Walter -

You seem to be under the impression that there is something more than a simple one-button "publish to vimeo" button at work here, but there isn't. There is no magical metadata connection. Whatever Bill's doing can be done by anyone with any NLE, by exporting a file to their desktop and then posting to vimeo - X let's Bill do that in one step instead of two and apparently it makes his day. Go figure.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Gary Huff
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 11:59:29 pm

[Herb Sevush] "There is no magical metadata connection."

I have tried this actually. I used the "Send to Vimeo" feature thinking it would save time doing it through FCPX than the traditional way I usually did it through Premiere. Nope, same amount of time.


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Bill Davis
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 17, 2013 at 4:31:19 pm

Interesting. So you're telling me you can upload any video or a part of any video from inside Premier without leaving the running software? Because that's what X does. I don't createa a disconnected file on the desktop, nor do I have to post process it in any way unless I choose to. Plus I get to continue working on my current projects or change and work on other ones WHILE my files are uploading to my service accounts or the versions are being emailed out.

I had no clue that Premier allowed this. Points to them then.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Chris Harlan
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 18, 2013 at 8:30:50 am

[Bill Davis] "Because that's what X does. "

So what? I mean really. Its got a link built in. So what? It just blows my mind the way you harp on this tiny, extremely limited convenience. IF you use Vimeo, its about one or two clicks less. If you use something that's not supported, like your client's ftp site, its worthless. I don't get it.


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Bill Davis
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 18, 2013 at 7:07:35 pm

[Chris Harlan] "So what? I mean really. Its got a link built in. So what? It just blows my mind the way you harp on this tiny, extremely limited convenience. IF you use Vimeo, its about one or two clicks less. If you use something that's not supported, like your client's ftp site, its worthless. I don't get it."

Sorry, but I don't find something that makes my work easier to be "tiny" nor "extremely limited" - particularly since the Vimeo Share in X allows direct access to and creation of keyword metadata INSIDE the Share interface itself.

You keep dissing the program, but continue to appear to miss-understand what you're dissing.

I'm not saying the Share part of X is the holy grail. It's just one small part of the total re-build that works with every other part of the re-build to make it an easier and more convenient way to work with file based video in an increasingly file based world.

And to argue that it just as difficult to do FTP transfers in X as in anything else, is just weird.

Honestly, if I NEVER have to launch Filezilla or Fetch ever again, I will consider my life to be infinitely improved.

FTP was lovely technology - in the mid-1990s. It's well past time to move on.

I know there are people who still have to do FTP. Just like there are still people who have to take hours to burn their videos onto plastic discs. But the moment they find they don't have to do that any longer, they should emit a huge sigh of relief, understanding how lame that process was compared to the orders of magnitude easier video distribution systems that have already been in common use today.

I still own a box of LPs - and a box or two of VHS tapes - and a shelf of CDs - and its nice and nostalgic to see them and remember the past.

But today X lets me get a great looking file from my desktop to my client's computers and pads and smart phones in 1/100th the time. And lets me launch and update what feels to me like my array of projects which remain connected to my own distribution pipeline (my Share Menu) for updates or revisions should that be required.

Feels a lot like progress to me.

YMMV.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Gary Huff
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 18, 2013 at 8:09:59 pm

[Bill Davis] "But today X lets me get a great looking file from my desktop to my client's computers and pads and smart phones in 1/100th the time."

Does it sync with Dropbox?


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Bill Davis
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 19, 2013 at 5:33:48 am

[Gary Huff] "Does it sync with Dropbox?"

No clue.

Back when Dropbox and YouSendit were duking it out as the modern file distribution services, we started using YouSendit and so didn't need Dropbox much. And I could never see the point in paying for two premium accounts. Actually, now that YSI is doing the big HighTail rebrand (is it just me, or does that actually kinda sound like some crappy XXX domain?) U might look at Dropbox again.

But seriously, I'm doing 90% plus of my finished project distribution right out of X to Vimeo. With a premium account, it transcodes and automatically puts four scaled versions behind the password wall ready for customer access - SD, HD, Mobile and Full Size. Is it perfect? Heck no. But it makes the vast majority of the day to day work I need to do - review copies, finals for websites, iPhone screeners, etc, etc a one click process. And I seriously haven't gotten a call from a client in nearly a year saying that they "can't watch the video" with this system, whether they're on a Mac, PC, Linux box, tablet or smart phone. Which is precisely what I want from the system. (Well, to be fair, there have been a couple of non-tech clients who've had nothing hooked up to watch on but a standalone DVD player - so I've had to burn TWO discs in the last year and hand deliver them - but that's not the systems fault - and the internal X "vanilla DVD's" worked perfectly.

Here's the thing. "Authoring for delivery on plastic" was the single biggest money loser I had over the last 5 years before I switched to X. It ate up HOURS of time and if I tried to bill that at a healthy hourly shop rate, I had plenty of clients who would push back asking why it cost them $350 for a DVD that cost less than a buck blank. I could talk to them about the two HOURS of authoring, Burning, Labeling and packaging they took till I was blue in the face, but client's didn't care. They just knew that a DVD could be had for $9.95 at the movie store, so that's ALL they ever felt it was worth.

Came to hate the plastic coasters with a passion. So the day I started figuring out file distribution directly via X, my work life just got MUCH easier.

If it doesn't work that way for anyone else, fine. Keep doing what you're doing.

I'm just in heaven not just having just one crappy time consuming way to get video files to clients for review. If you all have ways to do that outside a program like X, more power to ya.

But don't buzz kill me cuz I really like the way X does it. I've lost way, way WAY too many hours swapping DVDs out of burners to ever look back.

Simple as that.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Chris Harlan
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 18, 2013 at 8:20:03 pm

[Bill Davis] "You keep dissing the program,"

Not true. You keep saying that. Over and over. But that doesn't make it so. Calling Avid something like "Avoid" is dissing a program. I've shown lots of respect for X. It simply doesn't suit my current needs, which you see as dissing.

[Bill Davis] "but continue to appear to miss-understand what you're dissing."

It's an f'ing link, right? Is it more? Am I somehow misunderstanding it? What magic am I missing?


[Bill Davis] "I'm not saying the Share part of X is the holy grail."

Well you kind of do. Several times in this very response, as it happens.

[Bill Davis] "And to argue that it just as difficult to do FTP transfers in X as in anything else, is just weird. "

Why? The vast majority of my deliveries are some sort of ftp transfer, even if they are in the guise of a drop box or a simple link. I haven't looked at it specifically, but my guess is that Vimeo is gussied up and disguised FTP transfer. Most things like it are. You are aware, aren't you, that FTP stands for File Transfer Protocol and is part of the basic structure of the Internet. Most upload or download utilities over a TCP/IP network are based on or derivative of FTP.


[Bill Davis] "Honestly, if I NEVER have to launch Filezilla or Fetch ever again, I will consider my life to be infinitely improved.

FTP was lovely technology - in the mid-1990s. It's well past time to move on.
"


That is such a joke. Tell that to almost any IT department and they will laugh you out of the building.


[Bill Davis] "I know there are people who still have to do FTP. Just like there are still people who have to take hours to burn their videos onto plastic discs. But the moment they find they don't have to do that any longer, they should emit a huge sigh of relief, understanding how lame that process was compared to the orders of magnitude easier video distribution systems that have already been in common use today."

Man, you live on a very tiny island. So clicking a link is "orders of magnitude easier" than dropping and dragging a file? Unreal.

[Bill Davis] "I still own a box of LPs - and a box or two of VHS tapes - and a shelf of CDs - and its nice and nostalgic to see them and remember the past."

ROTFL Yes, the difference between dragging that file to a drop box instead of clicking on a link is SO much like the difference between analog record technology and digital downloads that I am shocked--shocked, I tell you--that I didn't notice it before.

Incidentally, if you are looking for an example as to how you actually do treat the share part of X as the Holly Grail, look no further.

[Bill Davis] "But today X lets me get a great looking file from my desktop to my client's computers and pads and smart phones in 1/100th the time."

What?!!! Okay, you like Vimeo's distribution service. Let's say I do too. So, I use it externally from MC or Pr. By externally, I mean open at the very same time as my NLE, and on the same computer. How, exactly, is clicking on the Vimeo link 100 times faster?

[Bill Davis] "Feels a lot like progress to me."

Feels like BS to me.


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Gary Huff
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 18, 2013 at 8:39:51 pm

[Chris Harlan] "
Feels like BS to me."


Of course. I send files via SoShare, Dropbox, back-end uploaders, ect. ect. ect. along with Vimeo as well (hardly ever YouTube). Is it nice? Yes. Is it revolutionary? You've got to be fucking kidding me.


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Michael Gissing
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 19, 2013 at 1:33:22 am

I want a race. I have my ftp server on a NAS unit on my network. By the time you send a file to Vimeo and then have it convert the file, send me notice that it has been uploaded, link to it, download it and play I can have the original file sent to my ftp three times over, played it and off to the pub.

It is peer to peer, fast and with software like Filezilla people can continue from an interrupted load. Vimeo is great but as a delivery system based on speed of getting from your timeline to the clients screen, it is so much slower than direct ftp to an in house server. No matter what time you might save in X getting the video dispatched to Vimeo, saving to the desktop and sending via ftp will always win in time critical situations.

I fully expect all NLEs to copy the ease of sending from a timeline to various video sites like Vimeo but it isn't what I would use for anything other than a convenient shared view copy. If clients want to embed a file in their website, they also want the file sent directly, not downloaded after Vimeo or Youtube do their conversion to my H264 file.


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tony west
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 19, 2013 at 1:18:47 pm

Chris, doesn't it depend on the situation?

For example, I'm working on a doc right now. I have quite a few academics in it. As I cut their sections, I send them youtube unlisted links for their approval. They love it. It's a simple one click on their end and they can see it anywhere they have their smart phone.

the same goes for some of the other folks that are in my doc that are elderly. They would be lost with dropbox and don't even have ftp, but they can click on that single link with no problem and also forward the email to their family members so they can all enjoy it together.

Now this is different than trying to send someone a finished file, but so much of what I send is not the finished file. I send more stuff to get it approved or just to show somebody something they may like than anything else. You are most likely only going to send the finished file once. Leading up to that you may send a bunch of files depending on how picky they are : )

I save time not waiting for the file to export and I like that.

Many corporate clients are not that tech savvy. They love that one click link on their end. They can see what I'm cutting on the golf course while they are waiting for the group ahead of them to putt out.


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Chris Harlan
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 19, 2013 at 7:47:52 pm

[tony west] "Chris, doesn't it depend on the situation?"

Yes, of course it does. I think that's actually what I'm arguing. There are a whole variety of services available beyond the few that Apple has made deals with to include in X. And that what Apple has done is nothing more than create an exclusive link to those few companies. If you use them, great! But if you don't use them, and use something else, it ain't a particularly significant difference. And if you use some other NLE and want to use the services that Apple has links to, its only a couple of extra steps to use those services.

[tony west] "I save time not waiting for the file to export and I like that."

But, that's an illusion. A unique file HAS to be rendered. That step may be invisible to you, but it is still happening. Extremely tight integration could allow for some sort of sequential render that could upload the file while it was compiling, but given the disorganized nature of TCP/IP networks, I'm a little uncertain that that would be of much value.

What you are gaining, I believe, is that you are exporting a file, and that file is being automatically sent when it is finished. And, it IS certainly something that you don't have to be between the output and the send to drag and drop. So THAT is the time you are not wasting. Of course, you can use automation to set something like that up yourself, if you like.


[tony west] "Many corporate clients are not that tech savvy. They love that one click link on their end. They can see what I'm cutting on the golf course while they are waiting for the group ahead of them to putt out."

Yes. That's terrific. And, you can do that with a zillion other services beyond those that Apple has made deals with.

I have no problem at all with Apple making the deals, or with people using the provided shares. It's a nice convenience. I do have a problem when people make claims that the sponsored batch files that are built into X represent a mind-bending culture shift and a competitor-shattering new age in editorial.


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Bill Davis
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 17, 2013 at 10:02:26 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Walter -

You seem to be under the impression that there is something more than a simple one-button "publish to vimeo" button at work here, but there isn't. There is no magical metadata connection. Whatever Bill's doing can be done by anyone with any NLE, by exporting a file to their desktop and then posting to vimeo - X let's Bill do that in one step instead of two and apparently it makes his day. Go figure."


Herb, don't I recall that you're the guy who was all bent out of shape because it took TWO separate keystroke operations rather than one - for some X operations? Or was that someone else?

Still, I remember that kind of thing as common complaints leveled at X in the early days - so it's pretty amazing that when a competing program requires one to LEAVE the timeline entirely and go back to the desktop to accomplish something like sharing that even MSWord does from within the program - that should suddenly be considered "no big deal."

But whatever.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 18, 2013 at 2:34:44 am

[Bill Davis] "Herb, don't I recall that you're the guy who was all bent out of shape because it took TWO separate keystroke operations rather than one - for some X operations? Or was that someone else?"

Someone else.

[Bill Davis] "so it's pretty amazing that when a competing program requires one to LEAVE the timeline entirely and go back to the desktop to accomplish something like sharing that even MSWord does from within the program - that should suddenly be considered "no big deal.""

Well I think I should apologize here Bill. If your workflow has you doing this multiple times a day, every day, then I guess the time savings would be significant. I only export and upload a few times a week, so I was being myopic.

On the other hand your constant use of phrases like "connected" and "disconnected files" leads most folks to think that X has some metadata connection to the posted output file - something like the dynamic link between PPro and AE, or the way an updated Motion file gets reflected in a Legacy timeline, when no such thing is going on. Your file output is no more connected in X than in Legacy, there is no automatic feedback between the posted file and your NLE, there is no ongoing metadata exchange, there is the simple ease of posting from within X, and if you described it that way you would get less negativity.

But your right, a time saving is nothing to sneeze at.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 6:06:43 pm

[Bill Davis] "OK, here you go. Both AVOID and PPro can't "satisfy" my now required "deliverable" of a NLE that leaves your work connected to an on-line output file so I don't have to waste endless time doing "work-arounds" in order to refresh a public copy of a newly produced video directly from the NLE - when the client suddenly discovers that they want tweaks and changes two days after they told me that the deliverable was "perfect" and exactly what they were hoping for."

You'll notice I specified "deliverable" because that is what we get paid for. I specifically eliminated both tools and work process's from my description, because that's purely the editors preference, and wile you make more money the faster you work, your clients generally don't understand or cares about your tools, only what you can deliver.

You of course have come back with a tool. The uploaded web file is the deliverable, not the one-button upload that you so love. For any non X editor no third party software beyond a browser is required to upload a file, although obviously you find the process onerous. This goes back to your statement that every NLE has something that others lack; obviously you love this something in X and if it fits your workflow I don't blame you. But I don't have to own and pay for another NLE to upload my files, which is what is required for exporting OMFs from X, along with third party conversion software to get X to talk to Legacy.

So lets add this up - all other NLEs lack the magic button so it costs the owner roughly two minutes of time and no money to match your one button deliverable. X lacks OMF export so it costs about $1000 in extra software, depending on FCP Legacy pricing, plus a sh*tload of time to translate to X and repair the files. Yes, a perfect equivalence.

Apple decided to ignore many conventional workflows in it's desire to streamline it's code. That decision is premature for many editors. No amount of hyperventilating on your part can change that simple truth. In a few years time it won't matter, those workflows will eventually be dead, but for right now, it is what it is.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Steve Connor
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 6:46:17 pm

[Herb Sevush] "X lacks OMF export so it costs about $1000 in extra software, depending on FCP Legacy pricing,"

Logic Pro X will soon perform this function for considerably less, it will give you AAF as well so you won't need X2Pro.

At least it will when xml export from FCPX works correctly!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 6:57:32 pm

[Steve Connor] "Logic Pro X will soon perform this function for considerably less, it will give you AAF as well so you won't need X2Pro."

All right so now we're down to $199 plus the need to learn a whole new software package just to get an OMF out. Plus there's that other issue ...

[Steve Connor] "At least it will when xml export from FCPX works correctly!"

couldn't have said it any better myself.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Steve Connor
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 7:03:50 pm

[Herb Sevush] "[Steve Connor] "Logic Pro X will soon perform this function for considerably less, it will give you AAF as well so you won't need X2Pro."

All right so now we're down to $199 plus the need to learn a whole new software package just to get an OMF out. Plus there's that other issue ..."


I know, lot's of learning required to find the "Import FCPXML" and "Export OMF" menu items, apparently Ripple training are going to make a series of tutorials

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 7:41:27 pm

[Steve Connor] "I know, lot's of learning required to find the "Import FCPXML" and "Export OMF" menu items, apparently Ripple training are going to make a series of tutorials"

Well if it's that simple, then I stand corrected. OMF export is now solved for $199, when it happens.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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alban egger
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 7:32:43 pm

Herb, your statement "One - I was responding to an idiotic posting claiming that Avid could do what PPro does now 15 years ago, and then relating that to the superiority of X over PPro. In that context i do believe it fair to point out that X still can't do what Avid actually could do 15 years ago, adn stil does today."

Sorry, but that is EXACTLY the strength of X. It does not try to make compromises to keep 15 year old workflows alive. It kept some ideas of old editing tactics, but when they got into the way X clearly went conseqently down its own road. Hence it is a very efficient and slim app.



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Herb Sevush
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 7:47:36 pm

[alban egger] "Sorry, but that is EXACTLY the strength of X."

I agree it is a strength until such time that a paying job requires what Apple tossed out, and then it's a weakness. Throwing out a lot of stuff from my storage area to make room is a strength until the IRS calls and asks me about some old quarterly forms, and then it doesn't seem so smart. I prefer the Adobe and Avid way, where they can deliver anything that X can deliver while not throwing away past workflows. If you never need those workflows, then I understand why you don't care.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Chris Harlan
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 18, 2013 at 8:25:51 pm

[alban egger] " It does not try to make compromises to keep 15 year old workflows alive."

Yes, unfortunately it doesn't have some of the tools required in some modern workflows, either.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 16, 2013 at 5:02:37 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Native handling of all video types, sync via waveform, built in closed captioning, GPU enhanced effects, dynamic linking to AE and Photoshop"

yeah, some of the points people were making above you there were pretty funny. One saying that the ppro interface looked "square" - one thing I'll give adobe is that their GUI conventions, and app layout customisation are second to none. Also any CC ppro suite you walk into, you just sign in, and it loads all your app specific customisations keyboard shortcuts, screen layouts - that's quite a nice feature. Some of the implications for the lumetri engine and the LUTs being native to premiere are good too. Also premiere has a genuinely fantastic key framing system. Also the dynamic JKL trimming is very easy to get used to.
It also has a real effects architecture, as opposed to motion templates. unfortunately you have to rent it...

Also - The idea that someone would defend the garish, drop shadow heavy non-customisable block interface of X because its "fun" is as odd as it ever was.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Brett Sherman
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 17, 2013 at 6:42:31 pm

FCP X has drop shadows? Honestly I never noticed. I'm too busy getting s**t done with it. I can say without hesitation, they haven't slowed me down in the slightest.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 18, 2013 at 5:12:14 pm

very good.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Richard Herd
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 19, 2013 at 10:48:25 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "CC ppro suite you walk into, you just sign in, and it loads all your app specific customisations keyboard shortcuts, screen layouts - that's quite a nice feature"

That's pretty cool.

What about Adobe Anywhere? Anyone know if its underneath-the-hood is FTP?


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Chris Harlan
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 20, 2013 at 12:43:09 am

[Richard Herd] "What about Adobe Anywhere? Anyone know if its underneath-the-hood is FTP?
"


I believe it streams proxies. I don't know if they then cache and are available locally. I'm interested in it, but haven't had time to look yet.


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Chris Harlan
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 20, 2013 at 2:41:54 am

Yes, it is streamed proxies off of a centralized server using the Mercury Streaming Engine:

http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/anyw...

Looks cool.


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Walter Soyka
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 20, 2013 at 2:34:38 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Yes, it is streamed proxies off of a centralized server using the Mercury Streaming Engine:"

I think that "streaming proxies" doesn't really do Anywhere justice. Anywhere is not just streaming proxies of original media -- it's processing effects server-side from native media in real time and streaming the results the clients on the fly.

It's an enterprise product with big multi-user collaboration component and hooks for big shops to customize and integrate it.

The article is a bit old now, but check out fxguide's New Tech: Adobe Anywhere [link] article.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Richard Herd
Re: 10 great Premiere Pro CC tips for FCP 7 refugees
on Aug 20, 2013 at 3:40:21 pm

If someone uploads media in one city is that media actually available in another city? Even if it take some amount of time for FTP?

EDIT -- been reading the link, now I get it. Thanks!


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