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So what is happening with NLE's in your area

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Steve Connor
So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 10, 2013 at 3:53:33 pm

I'm not cutting Broadcast at the moment, most of my contacts are one man shops or small corporate Production houses. Where I am no-one has moved to Avid, a few have switched to FCPX and some are still waiting for the next FCPX release before deciding

The move to subscription only CC hasn't been popular with people I know.

How are things where you are?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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John Pale
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 10, 2013 at 5:12:09 pm

In NYC, broadcast everyone is pretty much using Avid.. it was dominant before and still is. FCP Legacy is still there. Don't know of anyone using FCPX or Premiere Pro. Don't see many job postings for PPro or FCPX in the broadcast realm either. You do see them in lower budget and indie film job postings.


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Herb Sevush
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 10, 2013 at 5:44:30 pm

Just did a search on Mandy (a video job search site)for Post Production, Fully Paid, in America. Of the editorial posts that specified NLE expertise I got these results:

FCP Legacy - 26
Avid - 9
Adobe - 5
FCPX - 2

Of course there were many listings that didn't specify anything, most of them from indie filmmakers looking for an editor to give their lives to a project for 3 months for $500.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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John Pale
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 10, 2013 at 5:48:02 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Of course there were many listings that didn't specify anything, most of them from indie filmmakers looking for an editor to give their lives to a project for 3 months for $500."

Deferred. This will look great on your reel.


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Bret Williams
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 11, 2013 at 4:11:56 am

As a freelance editor I haven't looked at job postings in... Ever.

ATL has a pretty good push toward FCP X in corporate land. With the small shops, producers and independents that do the work. I don't really hear much about Premiere. And I think Avid was run out of town 10 years ago. But most places still hanging onto legacy until they HAVE to do something.


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Chris Harlan
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 10, 2013 at 6:53:36 pm

Ironically, I've spent the last two months on FCP 7. So, in LA, I'm seeing a slight uptick in freelance Avid, which was already dominant. I've also seen a couple of cable networks go Pr. I'm still seeing a lot of FCP 7, which probably has another year or more. I'm seeing more ads for X, and, of course, know folks like John Davidson, whose company has embraced it fully.


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Oliver Peters
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 10, 2013 at 7:10:33 pm

In the central Fl area (incl Orlando, Daytona, Tampa), there's still a lot of FCP6/7 hanging on. Also some Avid in news and network operations. Of the companies that are making changes, including broadcast (creative services depts), prod/post companies and corporate environments, it's almost all Adobe. This includes some very large companies. There are smatterings of FCP X, but it's usually one-man shops or islands within larger operations. Definitely no FCP X jobs that I've seen advertised.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 10, 2013 at 8:34:43 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Of the companies that are making changes, including broadcast (creative services depts), prod/post companies and corporate environments, it's almost all Adobe. "

I'm seeing this too. CC is very attractive to a company of a certain size, especially when they have creative needs beyond video and often have to expand or contract the workforce based on seasonal deployment.


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Oliver Peters
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 10, 2013 at 8:37:56 pm

[Chris Harlan] " especially when they have creative needs beyond video and often have to expand or contract the workforce based on seasonal deployment."

The secret is Photoshop and AE. If you already use these heavily, then you're going to upgrade. Since you get an NLE in the deal that's sufficiently comparable to FCP 7, then why buy a different product? You're already covered.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 10, 2013 at 8:41:36 pm

An additional point is that in markets outside of NY and LA, very few true post facilities exist anymore. They are all hybrids and hyphenated companies of some type or another. This means that the focus is no longer purely editorial, so the voices that pushed for Avid (or Quantel or other) in the past have little or no say in the matter. These companies still exist in NY or LA or London or other such places, which is where you see some return to Media Composer.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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John Pale
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 11, 2013 at 1:36:22 am

Broadcast outfits that rely on shared projects and storage will gravitate toward Avid. Nobody...not Adobe, Apple, Lightworks, Smoke...can match the level of project sharing that Avid does routinely.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 13, 2013 at 11:30:19 am

[John Pale] "Broadcast outfits that rely on shared projects and storage will gravitate toward Avid."

We have introduced Adobe Anywhere which we hope will address this particular area - Adobe Anywhere

Dennis - on vacation


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Bret Williams
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 11, 2013 at 4:19:38 am

Hmm, I own Master Colection CS5 and have been a cloud member for over a year. I edit with FCPX because I like it better. I'm actually considering killing my CC membership. I use PS, AI, and AE. But I don't need any advanced PS or AI features. The advanced AE features are great, though. So I'm considering just renting it month to month when neccessary if my CS5 version won't cut it.


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Ronny Courtens
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 11, 2013 at 6:56:18 am

Our facility is all FCPX, but we are still an exception. Larger post houses I know in France and Germany have been with Avid and/or legacy FCP for years and apparently they are not going to change soon. But large pure post houses are slowly disappearing in our parts of Europe as well. Small shops seem to be taking over most of the work. And here's where it gets interesting.

What I see is that the smaller shops as well as the audiovisual depts of some big agencies and corporations over here are really embracing FCPX. I get a lot of interest from people asking about our workflow lately (-: Some of our bigger corporate clients and agencies, but also small production houses and one-man-band shooter/editors, are already bringing in logged or even pre-edited FCPX projects to our shop. We do the fine tweaking of the edit (FCPX), the finishing (Smoke/Flame, Resolve, ProTools...) and the conforming for broadcast, DCP or digital platforms for them. It's a workflow I encourage because they do the bulk of the lower-end work and we can charge good money for our experienced people to polish, finish and deliver the projects.

- Ronny


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tony west
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 11, 2013 at 1:18:46 pm

[Ronny Courtens] "shooter/editors, are already bringing in logged or even pre-edited FCPX projects to our shop. We do the fine tweaking of the edit (FCPX), the finishing (Smoke/Flame, Resolve, ProTools...) and the conforming for broadcast, DCP or digital platforms for them. It's a workflow I encourage because they do the bulk of the lower-end work and we can charge good money for our experienced people to polish, finish and deliver the projects.
"


Exactly the workflow I predicted would happen when I first saw X

The role I saw for big post houses was, working with people who start projects in X and then need someone with more advanced skills (smoke/flame) to get it over the finish line, and if you had that ability you would be in the catbird seat.

You're a smart guy Ronny


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Tapio Haaja
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 11, 2013 at 6:47:13 pm

In Finland the biggest player is still FCP legacy. Some individuals use FCPX and like it. Haven't heard anyone moving to Avid but some facilities are moving this year to Premiere Pro CC.

Best
Tapio Haaja

Development & Production Manager / Promotions / MTV MEDIA (Finland)


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Erik Lindahl
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 11, 2013 at 7:50:08 pm

We're quite a small post facility in Sweden but are still using FCP7 - and probably will untill it breaks or something better comes along. A lot of people I've spoken to in the industry feels the same.

Most of the projects coming to us from agencies, directors or editors its primarily the same - FCP7. One or two projects have been edited in AVID, Premier or FCPX but very few.

We do both in-house, web and broadcast work and for us FCP7 is still very efficient so I see why people are reluctant to move on.


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Erik Lindahl
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 7:03:04 am

I can add to the fact TVC Broadcast delivery in Sweden, Scandinavia and lots of countries in Europe are file-based, primarily SD. ProRes is widely accepted as a format for a lot of work. Here FCPX could be a brilliant master-dub delivery editor, however, it doesn't quite hold up (probably why its been poorly accepted). It renders SD-material worse than Legacy and the GUI isn't very optimized for multiple version outputs. Lack of batch-export is problematic too.


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Tapio Haaja
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 9:24:49 am

Yeah it's almost impossible to use FCPX for SD workflows currently because all effects make picture softer... SD is non-square pixel and FCPX feeds material as square pixel to Motion template based effects so there is lot of scaling happening back and forth so material gets softened. So FCPX only work nicely when working with square pixel material.

Best
Tapio Haaja

Development & Production Manager / Promotions / MTV MEDIA (Finland)


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Bret Williams
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 1:53:59 pm

I guess SD might be a different story, although after 2 years of reading this forum intently this is the first I've heard of it. But in all honesty I can see how one might not like X, but, at least for HD, that's no excuse for staying with legacy. With all the different formats being shot now that have to be transcoded by a third party app just to start an edit, it would almost seem negligent to charge a client for those services when X, Avid, or Premiere could just start editing immediately. And this is nothing new. Legacy has been EOL'd and this process of not transcoding has been the norm for 2 years now. Like I said, SD May be a different case, but in general it's time for legacy shops to pick something else and move on pretty soon.


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Oliver Peters
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 2:02:33 pm

[Bret Williams] "I guess SD might be a different story, although after 2 years of reading this forum intently this is the first I've heard of it. "

Actually I mentioned it very early on. X is not good with SD, especially with 480 raster sizes (DV, DVCPRO). All other NLEs do a better job, including "legacy". You can get acceptable results, but you have to fiddle with the spatial conform and adjust vertical position in a very non-mathematical way.

Bottom line is that X works best with progressive HD formats.

[Bret Williams] "With all the different formats being shot now that have to be transcoded by a third party app just to start an edit, it would almost seem negligent to charge a client for those services when X, Avid, or Premiere could just start editing immediately"

To each his own. Transcoding gets you into a common format and NLE performance works best when you do that. The only camera media I work with natively in X is from Alexa. RED is native, but the workflow is still best when doing the transcode/proxy conversion. FWIW - there are plenty of sessions where I'll use "legacy" for Log & Transfer and then edit in X, because the options are superior to what X offers. That how I approach most C300 jobs.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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kim krause
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 13, 2013 at 9:49:23 pm

batch export to compressor....i still dont see the sd problem in our day to day work. in fact i wouldnt be surprised to see more imacs with fcpx come through the door in the next few months.


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Bret Williams
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 12:21:07 pm

I don't either. I just loaded in a bunch of betacam from 1993 recently and added color correction to the whole thing. Turning color correction on/off doesn't change the sharpness or softness at all. This is 720x486 ProRes 422 material. Oliver says it's the 480 flavors that are the issue though.


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Tapio Haaja
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 3:03:43 pm

Color correction doesn't make pictures softer in FCPX because it's native effect in FCPX. Keyer is also native and drop shadow. All Motion Template based effects soften non-square material. So pretty much 99% of effects. Try adding for example Circle Mask or Vignette and look close.

Best
Tapio Haaja

Development & Production Manager / Promotions / MTV MEDIA (Finland)


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kim krause
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 11, 2013 at 7:17:04 pm

thought i should add my 2 cents for what its worth...the broadcast company i work at has just installed 10 new imacs with fcpx in most of the qc/ingest suites.....the only current limitation is not being able to export to tape directly from fcpx but the whole place has gone digital and we just use the share command to send files to the master server...a second imac is being set up as a dedicated grading suite. most of the staff have been very receptive to fcpx after years of fpc 7 once the training was complete. the move to fcpx made sense because of the huge library of pro res material. as far as going back to tape (which is becoming more and more rare these days), we just use black magic media express.....a simple, elegant and cost effective solution for a major broadcaster in this country.


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Erik Lindahl
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 5:50:48 am

The SD quality-concerns of FCPX doesn't affect you?


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kim krause
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 11:36:57 am

We are mostly hd. Any SD material gets up converted through the teranex. I don't see that much of a difference between sd in fcp and in fcpx unless you have the output of the video card set to something other than what you are working in. Sd in final cut legacy displayed on a hd monitor never looked very good anyway. We always monitor in the format the original material is in and so far are very happy. Also the cost issue was a big factor. For the price of 6 avids on Mac towers we get 10 fcpx suites and it works seamlessly.


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Erik Lindahl
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 3:05:47 pm

Even if we're drifting off topic I'm not sure FCPX has issue monitoring SD, the main issue we've found is down converting or rendering SD to SD material. Here you run into the non-square pixel FCPX handles quite poorly. If you always use external hardware down conversion you might not run into the issue (i.e. working in HD and letting a Kona or BMD card do the SD-converision to another system or deck).

Monitoring in every NLE I've used should always match the sequence (i.e. SD sequence = SD monitoring, HD sequence = HD monitoring). This leaves the conversion on the card. FCP7 has terrible software output / cross-conversion. You get a picture but it looks like garbage.


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David Eaks
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 2:09:20 pm

Any more reading about this SD issue anyone can link to? This is the first I've heard of it as well. Not that I do much editing with SD material anymore, just interested.


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Erik Lindahl
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 5:44:08 pm

http://www.fcp.co/forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-fcpx/16540-titles-quality#25697

Lots of talk and tests in that thread, even som work-arounds. I've heard from other source Apple sadly isn't looking to fix this. A bit odd as even in HD-land we have various non-square formats (ProRes even supports these rasters natively).


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Daniel Frome
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 11, 2013 at 7:58:24 pm

Toronto, broadcast sector.

Nearly all the TV production houses are still running dual FCP7 and Avid. FCP7 still being used on continuing series' and all new shows are using Avid.

I'm currently working at a network, and internally that is, of course, all Avid, with a small sector using Grassvalley Edius.


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Mark Raudonis
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 2:37:21 am

Here in LA, in the "reality TV" world, AVID seems to be the NLE of choice. THere are a couple of reasons for this. Every reality show that I know of employs large teams of editors, assist, and story people all sharing the same media/ projects/ metadata. "X" just can't compete in this arena. (Please don't tell me about "sparse disc images"!)

The second reason is "tape delivery". While many networks are fully embracing "file based delivery", there's still plenty of requirements for a HDCAM or HDCAMsr master. I will just say that "X" has NOT prioritized any kind of VTR interface. (third party? Puhleeze!)


Finally, while it's true that many of the large "post houses" are now history, the production companies that used to patronize them are now doing it all in house. THe work is still there... it's just moved to a different address.

The entertainment business is changing by the minute. New business models. New distribution platforms. New technology. Which NLE to use is actually the least of my concerns these days!



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Andrew Kimery
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 6:39:09 am

My niche of a niche (unscripted broadcast, indie doc and higher-end web content in Los Angeles) is pretty much FCP Legend or Avid. I hear rumblings about Adobe (people looking for 'FCP 8') and occasionally see X pop up on the periphery. For companies with entrenched FCP or Avid workflows (and I've seen this from web companies to b'cast companies) I just don't think they see the cost/benefit of going with X right now.




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Shane Ross
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 6:49:57 am

Coming from where Mark is...Hollyweird...

From what I see FCP Legacy has lost little ground...lots of jobs still asking for people with FCP 7 experience. Avid is gaining ground. I've seen FCX listings only for "casting editors" and some "Sizzle editors." Nothing Premiere Pro yet.

I too still ship more tapes than anything else. All because that's what the networks are asking for. Some are shifting to tapeless...and always asked for ProRes masters. Now they are asking for DNxHD masters, or OP1A MXF masters. But mainly tape...of the HDCAM and HDCAM SR variety, like Mark said.

FCX has little hold here, but that's not to say it doesn't have it's own large niche that it fulfills very well.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Daniel Peterson
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 2:10:57 pm

Hey all, I recently shared this in another thread... but this is one of the main reasons why I created (and just launched the beta) of http://www.TheDigitalSlice.com
https://www.facebook.com/thedigitalslice
https://twitter.com/TheDigitalSlice

If you have a moment jump over, submit your data and help me get the ball rolling... I'm hoping it will become a very handy tool.

Aside from that, personally, (as Oliver and Chris also mentioned) ...the key is Ae and Photoshop. ~80% of the edits I personally work on involve some kind of motion graphics and photoshop, ~90% of the broadcast TVC's I work on are primarily based on after effects.... so inherently I went Adobe. Having a multi-skill set is extremely handy and the cloud subscription is also easily manageable. But in saying all that Avid does seem to also have a strong influence in broadcast where I am in Australia.


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tony west
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 1:52:03 pm

In STL, I know of one Network and one independent producer who have gone with AVID 6.5

They both were convinced that 7 was too buggy to go with just yet. I have no idea if that's true or not. I wanted see 7 first hand but I don't know anybody that has it.

I know 2 local news stations still on Legacy and one on Edius.

Of the three post houses I have been to this year 2 went with Ppr and one is mainly using X
The one that's using X is one of our most respected editors in town.

Of course a bunch of independent people have gone with X

They shoot Oprah's reality show "Sweetie Pies" here and I saw those folks shooting on tape.
As they walked around the place with those huge bulky cameras I thought to myself, dang that looks heavy.


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Neil Goodman
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 2:04:55 pm

Media Composer 7 is actually pretty stable. Havent been able to break it yet.

That said, you really have to see there version of background transcoding. It makes FCPX's implemation seem like a joke.

It actually doesnt pause when you work, will keep baking your clips, you can even switch to a new project, or completely close Avid all together, and it still keeps chugging away and you can check the progress remotely via the web. Its pretty fricken slick and has been working without a hitch. Shoot, you dont even have to launch Avid to get this process going.

Hopefully this sort of functionality is coming to X too.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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tony west
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 2:42:37 pm

That sounds totally awesome.

I kind of scratched my head when they stopped shy of the 7


If you're gonna upgrade get the latest is what I figure.

I will pass on your info to them.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 7:13:19 pm

[Neil Goodman] " you can even switch to a new project, or completely close Avid all together, and it still keeps chugging away"

doesn't that kind of mean they've just got an adobe style media encoder going as a separate process?

Isn't it true you can't handle any of the encoding media before the encode is finished? As in - there is no invisible swap out of the avchd for pro res as FCPX accomplishes?

Could be completely wrong seeing as I haven't touched it, but I read a bit on it, that's what I took away from it?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Daniel Frome
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 11:03:37 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "doesn't that kind of mean they've just got an adobe style media encoder going as a separate process?

Isn't it true you can't handle any of the encoding media before the encode is finished? As in - there is no invisible swap out of the avchd for pro res as FCPX accomplishes?"


Sort of yes and no. It does not have FCPX's "inviso-relink," which I do agree is more elegant. It will immediately populate your bin with ".new" clips, which appear online (1 by 1) as soon as each transcode is done. At any time you can tell your sequence to relink with the new media. You don't have to wait until the whole process is done to relink, you just won't have them all.

On that note, though, I found that MC7 finally handles AMA media smooth enough to work with, from beginning to end -- so long as you have really fast storage. I was editing a TV promo filmed with H264 footage. I did a few tests and determined that editing with AMA footage was in the same realm (cpu usage wise, etc) as editing AVCIntra, which my laptop handles with ease. I ended up not transcoding and found it working just fine. Surprising! When the project was finished, I sent the sequence (not master clips) into the background transcode process, just so I could archive the project. Worked as expected.

As a small side bit: I did desperately want an excuse to try Premiere CC, and actually attempted an edit of the same TV promo in it. True, scrubbing the H264 footage was faster than Avid, but the project used a lot of slow mo speed ramping, to which Avid's fluidmotion was a better option than constantly making AE comps and placing them into Premiere. It's weird.. but if Adobe wants their time remap feature to be used in Premiere they really need to add proper frame interpolation such as what AE has.


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Kannan Raghavan
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 12, 2013 at 11:52:27 pm

Here in Singapore it's pretty much FCP legacy everywhere. One network use Avids, but most other places still use FCP 7. Hardly anyone use FCP X (I do:). A handful of freelancers use PrPro. After CC, most of them are planning to switch. To what? That's the big debate going on:) I'm pretty happy with my legacy (for live broadcast OB edits) and FCPX for corporates and segment edits (for TV shows). My copy of CS 6 is not being used as much. Am going to upgrade my MC6 to 7 soon. Was an Avid editor before FCP, still like MC.

Kannan Raghavan
The Big Toad Films Pte. Ltd.


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Jack Lee
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 13, 2013 at 2:27:32 am

Here is what's happening in China. Most of the post production workflow involves EDL for film production so there is no doubt FCP Legacy is the lead horse. The number of Avid users is growing fast especially in the film industry. FCPX is quite acceptive by indie films as well as FCP7. I love FCPX for its advanced background rendering and the magnetic timeline. They are just awesome! And I believe Apple is to release a better version later this year along with the new Mac Pro, which would change the post production industry. For the others like Edius and Premier, I see few people mastering.


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Ronny Courtens
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 13, 2013 at 8:30:25 am

I agree the next major update of FCPX and its performance on the new MacPro could be important factors in decision-making.

Yesterday I had a meeting with our editors to assess our FCPX workflows and see where we could improve. Although we work with maxed out MacPros and the "latest and greatest" iMacs the general consensus was that faster hardware would be welcome, especially for handling long-form and effects/title-heavy projects. And another thought came up.

As we are on the verge of merging our film dept. (still on FCP7) with our broadcast post shop (now all FCPX) some people suggested to gradually replace our FCP7 bays by Avid MC7 for our film and tape based work. I honestly think that's not a bad idea.

FCPX excels in the areas where MC is lacking, and MC is king in the areas where FCPX is still weak. Premiere CC just seems to be somewhere in the middle of anything, so we're not interested. Having both MC7 and FCPX under the same roof running on the new MacPros could offer the best of both worlds to serve a broad client base. Most of our editors are very familiar with MC (we used to be an Avid house), and they all love working with FCPX as well. And both NLE's work nicely with our GC and finishing tools (Smoke/Resolve). Wether or not this will be our road for the future will partly depend on what we see happening in the next major update of FCPX, and on how well X and MC will perform on the new MacPro. Exciting times indeed.

- Ronny


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Oliver Peters
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 13, 2013 at 11:59:53 am

The MC + FCP X combo is exactly what I have advised and help set up at an area college film technology program. While Premiere is good, the Cloud subscription alters how they have to fund upgrades, which currently is problematic. With very attractive educational pricing and cheap App Store prices, it gives them the best of both world, with a hedge for either direction. Plus, they still have FCP 7/FC Studio from before. There's really no reason you have to do everything with a single piece of software.

Olive

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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alban egger
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 13, 2013 at 1:53:27 pm

In Broadcast clients don't care what I use as ling as they get the files they need.
In corporate I have almost exclusively requests for FCPX. Nobody asks for Avid over here and Premiere seems to stay a niche.

I am very surprised how many agencies have switched to FCPX in the last 6 months.


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Ronny Courtens
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 13, 2013 at 6:16:43 pm

[alban egger] "I am very surprised how many agencies have switched to FCPX in the last 6 months."

We have some of the biggest agencies as our clients, and I am seeing exactly the same thing. They prepare their projects in FCPX and bring us the logged media with selects and even rough cuts for fine-tuning and finishing. A perfect workflow for us

- Ronny


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Walter Soyka
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 13, 2013 at 2:34:51 pm

Most of the video departments I know who were FCP7 have stayed FCP7, but I know one that has gone back to Avid. Use among freelancers I know seems pretty evenly split between Pr and FCPX.

I am not seeing the resistance to CC in the real world that I see on the Internet. Most folks think it's a pretty good deal. I know a couple of design departments who have moved eagerly to CC (even while editorial stays FCP7).

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Herb Sevush
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 13, 2013 at 9:59:48 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I am not seeing the resistance to CC in the real world that I see on the Internet. Most folks think it's a pretty good deal. I know a couple of design departments who have moved eagerly to CC (even while editorial stays FCP7)."

Adobe keeps offering new deals at lower and lower prices. latest is $479 for a year with a guarantee of no increase for another year. I take this to mean they are facing resistance - nobody offers a deal when folks are waiting in line to buy.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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TImothy Auld
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 13, 2013 at 10:38:16 pm

Which would end up being quite a bit cheaper than the $29.99 a month for a year "deal" that I got.

Tim


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TImothy Auld
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 13, 2013 at 10:50:10 pm

No, my math is wrong. If I had to pay a second year at rack rate then I'd pay almost exactly the same as the person who took the guaranteed $479/yr for two years. Actually I'd save two bucks.

Tim


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Walter Soyka
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 12:55:17 am

[Herb Sevush] "Adobe keeps offering new deals at lower and lower prices. latest is $479 for a year with a guarantee of no increase for another year. I take this to mean they are facing resistance - nobody offers a deal when folks are waiting in line to buy."

I have no idea what their targets are or how close or how far they are from hitting them. My notes here are anecdotal, not systematic, and more design-oriented than editorial-oriented. I'm just saying that on these forums, it sounds like the industry is united against CC. Among the folks I know and work with, CC is seen much more positively. Neither group alone shows the complete picture.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Will Eccleston
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 3:37:49 pm

I am an Atlanta freelancer that works at various post houses and design firms, as well as a good bit at home, and I'm going full-in with CC for now. I learned on AVID in 1997 and spent billions of hours at it. Then was forced into Final Cut v2, hating it for a few months and then growing to love it. In the last year, between my different clients and different types of jobs, I've spent lots of time at Symphony 6.x, Premiere Pro CS6, and FCP 7, and I can say that I absolutely prefer Premiere Pro (and that's not even with CC's improvements, which I can't wait to have in my hands).

I will be cutting some television at a post facility coming up, and no doubt they will be on AVID, which, for that type of work, and with the support of a team of assistant editors, is perfectly fine for me. But attempting to do the high-end, effects-and-graphics-heavy corporate work that I do on the AVID would be an exercise in misery.

I've owned the Master Collection for years, and I always upgrade as soon as I can convince a few key clients to do it as well, so the commitments surrounding CC are no issue for me, and the more I use Premiere, the more little things I find that I love about it. There will always be things that I wish it did like FCP or AVID, and yes, AVID's trim mode blows everything away, and has worked that way since before I started editing, but it's nowhere near enough to push me in that direction. In general, the AVID feels 15 years behind in many aspects of its operation.

I have never, even for a second, sat in front of FCPX, but I've read a ton about it, and so far, no one's comments have made me want to invest the time to learn it. It's also difficult to trust Apple anymore. But who knows. I might take a look at it one day if everyone starts singing its praises.

Will Eccleston
Kinetiscape Films


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Herb Sevush
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 3:54:08 pm

[Will Eccleston] " It's also difficult to trust Apple anymore. But who knows. I might take a look at it one day if everyone starts singing its praises."

As someone who has been very, some might say excessively, critical of Apple since the X-bomb, I would have to say that while I felt that lack of trust in the past I think the evidence now clearly shows I was mistaken. With the release of the R2MacPro it's fair to say that Apple has not abandoned the pro film/video market, although they have re-defined it for themselves. At this point if your comfortable with Apple's new target audience, just below the highest end of the film/broadcast/CG niche, I would think they are as trust worthy as any company that's not exclusively devoted to video editing and post.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 6:39:50 pm

[Herb Sevush] "[Will Eccleston] " It's also difficult to trust Apple anymore. But who knows. I might take a look at it one day if everyone starts singing its praises."

As someone who has been very, some might say excessively, critical of Apple since the X-bomb, I would have to say that while I felt that lack of trust in the past I think the evidence now clearly shows I was mistaken. With the release of the R2MacPro it's fair to say that Apple has not abandoned the pro film/video market, although they have re-defined it for themselves. At this point if your comfortable with Apple's new target audience, just below the highest end of the film/broadcast/CG niche, I would think they are as trust worthy as any company that's not exclusively devoted to video editing and post.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions"


Kudos, Herb.

One hallmark of real professionalism is to look at an evolving stream of facts, and make new assessments based on those changes.

And that remains true even if you personally never find that X works for the kind of work you do - or the way you want to work.

But your post was thoughtful and considered, and I for one, appreciate your stating this so publicly.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 6:51:53 pm

While I can see where it seems they aren't aimed at the highest level, I think they may actually be. The rate they've added back in high end features to FCPX, the changes in Logic X, and the design of the new Mac Pro all lead me to believe that Apple is serious about the top end professional, just not catering exclusively to them. I hope I'm right about this, but what if Logic X was the face of things to come in FCPX. All of the power of Logic 9 is there, but it's so much cleaner and more efficient. Another thing that gives me hope is that The Foundry was featured at WWDC, and Apple seems to be working closely with the Resolve team as well. With so many people still using FCP7, the 10.1 update to FCPX could be the straw that breaks the camel's back and gets people upgrading to X.

______________________________

FCP X Certified Pro, Level Two
______________________________


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Herb Sevush
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:06:56 pm

[Nicholas Zimmerman] "The rate they've added back in high end features to FCPX, the changes in Logic X, and the design of the new Mac Pro all lead me to believe that Apple is serious about the top end professional"

The lack of PCIe slots in the new MacPro puts a definite ceiling on it's abilities VS anything else out there. There is a niche of post production people who need more than Thunderbolt can deliver.

FCPX has a very long way to go to match Avid in collaborative editing, many broadcasters still need tape delivery, and having to go thru FCP7 for OMF is a joke.

All of the high end features they added back were added back in the first year, I don't see any great development pace over the past 12 months.

They might do this and they might do that, but apparently I don't read the tea leaves the same way you do.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:22:52 pm

[Herb Sevush] "The lack of PCIe slots in the new MacPro puts a definite ceiling on it's abilities VS anything else out there. There is a niche of post production people who need more than Thunderbolt can deliver."

I'd be really surprised if Red didn't bring out a thunderbolt RedRocket. Same goes for the vast majority of PCIe cards. PCIe hardware scopes, RAID cards, Fiber channel, etc. I don't think you're going to have to worry about throwing everything in a chasis, unless you already own it. The transition will take time, but I think CES and NAB will be chock full of Thunderbolt versions of what were once PCIe cards. Hopefully the manufacturers will actually make proper devices, and not just take their existing products and throw them in a chasis. I hope. As far as "what Thunderbolt can deliver" it's bandwidth is plenty for pretty much everything but GPUs, and even then most GPUs don't use their 16X pipes completely. Case in point, the kid that got Battlefield 3 running maxed out on a MacBook Air using Thunderbolt.



[Herb Sevush] "FCPX has a very long way to go to match Avid in collaborative editing, many broadcasters still need tape delivery, and having to go thru FCP7 for OMF is a joke."

I recently had a chance to tour CBS's west coast studio and check out their control room. The guys complained about how they were transitioning to file based for everything. Tape deliver is dieing very quickly, and if you need it just use your I/O card's software. I've found Black Magics offering MUCH better than the wonky print/edit to tape in FCP7. OMF isn't dieing, it's good as dead. I regularly take my projects into Pro Tools using X2Pro, and my composer takes the same files into Logic for scoring (Logic X XML import hasn't worked well yet).



[Herb Sevush] "All of the high end features they added back were added back in the first year, I don't see any great development pace over the past 12 months."

That is very true. It would make since for them to save it up and combine their marketing of the Mac Pro (the Xeons it uses come out early September), Logic X, and a major feature overhall for FCPX. I hope.



[Herb Sevush] "They might do this and they might do that, but apparently I don't read the tea leaves the same way you do."

Once again, I hope. R&D isn't cheap, and they've delivered three very major (and probably expensive) professional projects in the last few years. I hope that this recent push for professionals is rooted deep within the company, and at the moment it seems to be. Look at OSX, it's new features are very power user heavy, things like dual display improvements. That doesn't benefit the average consumer, but is deeply beneficial to power users and professionals.

______________________________

FCP X Certified Pro, Level Two
______________________________


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Michael Hancock
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:29:32 pm

[Nicholas Zimmerman] "I'd be really surprised if Red didn't bring out a thunderbolt RedRocket. Same goes for the vast majority of PCIe cards."

Red Rocket X (the next iteration of the RedRocket) is x16, so Thunderbolt already doesn't have enough bandwidth for it. I'm sure you can put it in a chassis and run it via Thunderbolt, but that's like boxing with one hand tied behind your back. What's the point?

Thunderbolt is great for some stuff, but it doesn't replace PCIex16 slots. Not this iteration, at least. Maybe when (if) it goes optical.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Herb Sevush
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:49:33 pm

[Nicholas Zimmerman] "Case in point, the kid that got Battlefield 3 running maxed out on a MacBook Air using Thunderbolt."

Some people need multiple CPUs and even more GPUs than Apple is offering. Not many, but some. And there is nothing that Thunderbolt can do to help them. If you think that Battlefield 3 defines the high end, I will say no more.

[Nicholas Zimmerman] " I think CES and NAB will be chock full of Thunderbolt versions of what were once PCIe cards."

I went with my wife to the Apple store the other day to get her an external drive for her new laptop. There was only 1 Thunderbolt drive and it cost more than twice as much as any other external drive, and this is more than 2 years after Tbolt was introduced. Needless to say I was not impressed with the speed with which Tbolt is being implemented by third parties.

[Nicholas Zimmerman] "I recently had a chance to tour CBS's west coast studio and check out their control room. The guys complained about how they were transitioning to file based for everything. Tape deliver is dieing very quickly, and if you need it just use your I/O card's software. I've found Black Magics offering MUCH better than the wonky print/edit to tape in FCP7. "

But I thought tape was dead 2 years ago, when X first came out. So now it's 2 years later and apparently still alive. Yes it will be phased out, but no, it's death certificate is still on hold. As for third party tape-out, do you have any idea what a PITA it is to have to output a file before printing, especially if your trying to just insert a fix. Yes it's possible, but nobody whose job depends on it would choose to work in that way. I expect improvements from new software, not ridiculous third party work arounds.

[Nicholas Zimmerman] "OMF isn't dieing, it's good as dead."

In your world, maybe. Just like tape is as good as dead, in your world. But in the rest of the "not you" world neither of those statements is true. And in that other, not you world, X is a step backwards, and using Xto7 to generate OMFs is a silly hack.

[Nicholas Zimmerman] "Look at OSX, it's new features are very power user heavy, things like dual display improvements. That doesn't benefit the average consumer, but is deeply beneficial to power users and professionals."

I'm not arguing that, I'm arguing that your definition of top seems to have the same ceiling that Apple's does, while a higher ceiling does in fact exist.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 8:02:54 pm

[Herb Sevush] "If you think that Battlefield 3 defines the high end"

Nah. Just a proof of concept on the tech.

[Herb Sevush] "In your world, maybe. Just like tape is as good as dead, in your world. But in the rest of the "not you" world neither of those statements is true. And in that other, not you world, X is a step backwards, and using Xto7 to generate OMFs is a silly hack."

Avid itself has urged people to switch to AAF, and I can't think of any reason not to. There might be a good reason, I've just never been informed of it.

[Herb Sevush] "I'm not arguing that, I'm arguing that your definition of top seems to have the same ceiling that Apple's does, while a higher ceiling does in fact exist."

I highly doubt you'll ever see OMF or Print to Tape return. Apple seems to be focusing on the future of the high end, instead of the past, which OMF and Tape are both in the past column. They still exist for fringe sectors, but workarounds also exist. They're not always fun, but neither was transcoding every piece of footage before you could edit different formats. It was just a few years ago that we'd get an error in FCP5 every time we tried to mix anything that was even the slightest bit off. As far as exporting a master file before printing tape, it's much faster to take that step in FCPX.

______________________________

FCP X Certified Pro, Level Two
______________________________


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Herb Sevush
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 8:43:10 pm

Nicholas -

For me, part of being a professional is the ability to deliver whatever my clients want. I'm not arguing for the supremacy of Tape out or OMF, I'm arguing that the inability to do either as easily and quickly as I do now is a step backwards. I don't care if OMFs aren't as good as AAF, if I have one client who asks for it, for whatever reason, I want to be able to deliver it. Being restricted, even if it's to a better way, is not an advance. MC7, PPro7(or cloud or whatever the hell they're calling it),Edius 7 and even LIghtworks can export to tape and deliver OMFs while handling multiple codecs without transcoding, so the bit about Apple being focused on the future is just a load.

Apple has made choices about the market it wants to serve, and it's leaving a portion of it's former market to its competitors.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Daniel Peterson
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 15, 2013 at 12:47:38 am

I'm learning a stack from this thread and from the comments I'm reading. It seems that most of the applications are actually pretty good, but perhaps taking a few too many steps to fast (Adobe CC excluding 'Encore' is another classic example)... the confusion seems to be that they are trying to take hold of every post production market, in the present and future, when it may not actually be possible?

Also reading the convo on audio technicalities the other interesting idea (for me anyway) is that most good 'editors' are really more than just editors, they are sound designers, color graders, motion graphic artists etc... so on this front, Adobe's idea of having one place where they develop specific software for specific needs, Audition, After Effects etc, seems to be the simplest way forward. Smoke looks interesting with its integration of multiple tools, but that must be a mission trying to combine all those tools into one app.

[Herb Sevush] "For me, part of being a professional is the ability to deliver whatever my clients want."
This is what hits home for me too, the real question is... who are the clients and what do they want? That should steer the future development. A lot of people want to make films, but reality is, for the majority it is pretty hard to crack, and hard to make a living off unless your in the top end.

By the way, I would be super appreciative if you could help me get some data on all this at http://www.thedigitalslice.com (beta) -aiming for clarity.

Filmmaker // Motion Graphic Artist
http://www.saltmedia.net

http://www.thedigitalslice.com (beta) - Seeking clarity in digital post production.


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Michael Gissing
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 15, 2013 at 12:58:17 am

I don't want AAFs and prefer OMFs. The reasoning is brutally clear. OMFs being long dead EOL is absolutely stable and predictable. AAFs contain a whole lot of extra info that I don't want like EQ and dynamic levels. I usually remove all clip gain adjustment and ask editors to remove all split edits anyway so all the extra goodies of AAF are not required. Sorry if I don't want to hear the editors brilliant EQ or great fade. They all have to be redone anyway once proper sub frame editing, track reorganising, bussing and sub grouping with dynamics processing has been applied.

All your clip fades muck up undipped stem requirements. The sub bus needs to be dipped not the clips. Finally AAF requires a license fee so I am not prepared to pay extra for features that are not wanted and for a format that is still being developed.

The inability of a professional NLE to output such basic deliverables like OMF and EDL and relies totally on third parties to find how to export on Apple's behalf has always concerned me. It doesn't appear to concern too many on the edit side but the buck always stops with me. I have to make the workflow reliable, stable and simple. OMFs and EDLs are an everyday reality.

To the greater question of what NLE, Legacy is still king in my area with some small shifts to Pr & AVID. I now know two editors using X but so far haven't had a broadcast doco cut on X delivered to me yet. I expect it will happen but so far not one enquiry.


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Charlie Austin
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:34:47 pm

[Herb Sevush] "FCPX has a very long way to go to match Avid in collaborative editing,"

True.

[Herb Sevush] "many broadcasters still need tape delivery"

Also true, but it's trivially easy to spit out 4444 or uncompressed files and master to tape using something like BMD Media XPress or other similar apps. I always thought FCP7's edit to tape function kinda sucked anyway, but that's obviously just my opinion. Plenty of folks like it...

[Herb Sevush] "and having to go thru FCP7 for OMF is a joke."

Absolutely but... using X2Pro to make audio aaf's is freaking brilliant. As a former mixer, I always spent a fair amount of time prepping tracks from 7 or whatever for mix. When I cut, the timeline is kind of a mess because I need to work quickly. I could care less if everything's all nicely separated, I just want t to fit in the window so I can see it. So... prior to finish, I'd split everything out nicely. This can take a little time when what you end up with takes up to 24 or more - sometimes a lot more - tracks. You know the drill. In X using X2Pro, I essentially just push a button and it's done. It's awesome.

[Herb Sevush] "All of the high end features they added back were added back in the first year, I don't see any great development pace over the past 12 months."

Again, true. But what we also know is that there is a "new" version coming out soon. My guess is that the app got "forked" around the time .06 came out. the .0x version got maintenance, bug fixes, and a couple random features. Meanwhile all the new goodness is going into .1 or whatever it is. Time will tell. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Herb Sevush
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:56:55 pm

[Charlie Austin] " I always thought FCP7's edit to tape function kinda sucked anyway, but that's obviously just my opinion. Plenty of folks like it..."

It does suck, I had waited long in vain for Apple to fix both tape ingest and export, not realizing they were waiting to simply kill it off. Still suck as it might, it's better than having to output a master file every time you want to do a tape layoff. The ease of printing from the timeline is not to be underestimated, especially when your playing around with fixing inserts.

[Charlie Austin] "My guess is that the app got "forked" around the time .06 came out. the .0x version got maintenance, bug fixes, and a couple random features. Meanwhile all the new goodness is going into .1 or whatever it is. Time will tell"

The one thing the X-bomb taught me is that guessing on what Apple is planning to do is a fools errand.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Charlie Austin
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 10:33:50 pm

[Herb Sevush] "The ease of printing from the timeline is not to be underestimated, especially when your playing around with fixing inserts."

Oh, for sure. But it can be done with external apps, though it's not as easy. That's not to say it's not a need, but I can see why Apple might not want to bother with it. We virtually never see tape anymore, but for those who do, it's a bit of a PITA...

[Herb Sevush] "The one thing the X-bomb taught me is that guessing on what Apple is planning to do is a fools errand."

LOL.. agreed, though in this situation I think it's a pretty safe bet based on smoke signals I've been seeing... :-) We'll see soon enough...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Walter Soyka
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:17:55 pm

[Nicholas Zimmerman] "While I can see where it seems they aren't aimed at the highest level, I think they may actually be. The rate they've added back in high end features to FCPX, the changes in Logic X, and the design of the new Mac Pro all lead me to believe that Apple is serious about the top end professional, just not catering exclusively to them."

I guess one's definition of "high-end" is very important.

Apple is pretty well absent in CG and compositing. The CPU performance gap is widening, and with next-generation single-CPU Mac Pro being half as fast for these apps versus dual-CPU PC workstations, I don't see this changing.

You don't need a supercomputer under your desk for editorial anymore, but there's a lot more to what I'd consider high-end work than straight cuts and color correction.

I'm not saying you can't do great work with FCPX or on Macs -- of course you can -- but look at feature sets for systems like Baselight, Flame, Mistika, or Pablo. FCPX has a long way to go before it reaches "the highest level."

Support for 10-bit displays in the OS would be a good start. It's 2013!

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:31:09 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Apple is pretty well absent in CG and compositing. The CPU performance gap is widening, and with next-generation single-CPU Mac Pro being half as fast for these apps versus dual-CPU PC workstations, I don't see this changing."

I don't think it's going to be a computational powerhouse for ray-tracing stuff. I'm torn on the single CPU thing, and at some point we might even see it change, but within the same/similar form factor. It seems like Apple's intention is to have the artists working in OSX on a Mac Pro, and sending to a Linux farm for render.



[Walter Soyka] "I'm not saying you can't do great work with FCPX or on Macs -- of course you can -- but look at feature sets for systems like Baselight, Flame, Mistika, or Pablo. FCPX has a long way to go before it reaches "the highest level.""

I don't think it will every reach those levels, same for Premiere and Media Composer. I do think we'll see better round tripping support throughout though, but that is mostly up to the other developers adding support, not Apple.

______________________________

FCP X Certified Pro, Level Two
______________________________


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Andrew Kimery
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 9:30:58 pm

[Herb Sevush] " With the release of the R2MacPro it's fair to say that Apple has not abandoned the pro film/video market, although they have re-defined it for themselves. "

I feel like Apple has always defined their own market, and from 2001 - 2011 Apple's path just happened to line up with many of our own paths. Apple helped usher in the era(s) of desktop editing, publishing, DVD authoring (even color correction), etc., at times when 'off the rack' computers weren't deemed up to snuff for professional use.

Back in the day I remember one facility I worked at using an SGI Octane to run Smoke. These days I'd say most Smoke installs are probably on affordable, off the shelf computers. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple considered full size towers today to be akin to 'big iron' machines from 10-15 years ago. It's a pretty niche market they weren't interested in back then and still aren't interested in today.

I think the new Mac Pro will be good enough for the vast majority of users just like the older Mac Pros were. There will be faster machines out there (always have been) but the higher cost (and loss of Mac-centric workflow) will keep most users with Apple (even if they grumble some while handing over their credit card).




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Walter Soyka
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:25:40 pm

[Will Eccleston] "I have never, even for a second, sat in front of FCPX, but I've read a ton about it, and so far, no one's comments have made me want to invest the time to learn it. It's also difficult to trust Apple anymore. But who knows. I might take a look at it one day if everyone starts singing its praises."

I'm with Herb here. I think that Apple is committed to editorial.

There are still things I dislike about FCPX, but it's come a very long way since its launch. I think it's worth learning.

I don't think they care about building computers for users like me (focusing more on design/animation/compositing) anymore.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 14, 2013 at 5:26:59 pm

Here in Dallas I've seen a lot of people either staying with 7. Some small production places have moved to Premiere, but not nearly as many as I've seen move to X. Our ABC affiliate recently moved to FCPX, as well as our "alternative" newspaper, The Dallas Observer. The local FCPUG is ~90% X, and I think a lot of that is due to exposure and education. A lot of producers and small shops heard X sucks two years ago, and nobody has told them how much it improved.

As far as MC goes, it's always been here, but it's mostly at our "Hollywood" facilities, i.e. ReelFX & Post Asylum.

______________________________

FCP X Certified Pro, Level Two
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kim krause
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 23, 2013 at 8:01:35 pm

just got my new mac at work and it came loaded with fcpx.....looks like the whole place is almost switched over now.....a few hold outs but i think after the next training sessions we will all be x users...the only thing i miss is the export to tape functions but we seldom do tape anymore and there is always black magic media express which is way better than tcp 7 ever was.


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Adam White
Re: So what is happening with NLE's in your area
on Aug 31, 2013 at 10:31:45 pm

Currently I'm editing on either Avid Media Composer 6 or Final Cut Pro 7. FCP is still tool of choice where I know there is going to be a need for extensive FX work, or graphics. Avid for anything else - I try and use Avid as much as possible (to aid with getting more and more comfortable with it) but there are some jobs that instinctively feel like they might be painful with it.

Here in London, I still just see loads of FCP Legacy seats. I don't think that's going tp change until it is irretreavably broken by some OSX update at some point. There is a great deal of interest in Premiere Pro, and I think most FCP legacy users here will probably head towards that - I'm not sure they will until there is no choice but to do so, however.

I have yet to encounter any FCPX seats. All the conversations I have seem to end with the sentiment of ''Anything but X'' and I think, fairly or unfairly, it's reputation hasn't really changed since the abysmal launch. I dare say there will be more proponents of it here over time but I honestly haven't met any yet.

I've been really surprised by how little things have changed since the launch of X. At the time I thought things would start to change within a year or so, but its over 2 years later and in reality virtually nothing has changed in terms of the ubiquity of FCP legacy. That has surprised me somewhat.


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