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Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X

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Mitch Ives
Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 3:37:05 am

Anybody seen this... it looks interesting

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 3:53:12 am

It looks like Simon has done a bang up job.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 4:22:08 am

He's done a very good color grading UI in a "single page" interface. Apple should look at his work.



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Carsten Orlt
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 5:15:21 am

Please Apple do not look at his work :-)

I actually tried it and though the quality of the correction looks good I do not think the UI is that good.

If you want the power of more controls might as well get the FREE Davinci.

Apple actually did an amazing job by getting rid of the clutter in the app :-)

Happy editing


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Marcus Moore
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 12:38:57 pm

I agree. The execution of CC in FCPX is very good, with its own version of Resolves "power windows" and "qualifiers" making some fine work pretty simple. What's lacking is depth to the controls (keyframes, curves, alternate 3-way interface, tracking or at least key framing for masks). But just like with audio- there is very likely a ceiling to the complexity to the controls Apple is interested in integrating. Knowing that anyone in certain workflows will always end up punting that part of the process to another person working with specialized software.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 1:18:59 pm

For the people who need color wheels, this software provides the necessary interface.

It also provides really nice white balance controls, something that the color board does not focus on specifically.

This plug combined with SliceX and natress curves is a decently powerful in app solution.

Sure, a dedicated grading system is dedicated, but as someone who is looking to have more power in one place, this is pretty cool, and it shows proof of concept in custom UI design within fcpx.

They said it couldn't be done! ;)


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Oliver Peters
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 1:58:40 pm

Personally, I'm happy with Simon and Lawn Road developing this on their own path and Apple going the way they want to with the color board. Hawaiki adds way more sophistication than Apple wants in a single effect, which is fine. Plus it is placed into the effects stack, so you can rearrange the filter order. Color board is always downstream of the effects. I'm sure Simon is working on more power in the next update release, which may fill in the gaps. Unfortunately, all sophisticated plug-ins are limited by the Motion template architecture if they don't want to take a performance hit.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Mitch Ives
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 3:09:22 pm

[Marcus Moore] "What's lacking is depth to the controls (keyframes, curves, alternate 3-way interface, tracking or at least key framing for masks). But just like with audio- there is very likely a ceiling to the complexity to the controls Apple is interested in integrating. Knowing that anyone in certain workflows will always end up punting that part of the process to another person working with specialized software."

As unpopular as this may be, I do not like Apple's Color Board, and yes, I've worked with it. I don't hate it, I just don't find it an improvement. Perhaps grandma and grandpa like it better than that scary color wheel thing, but Apple's re-design was at the very minimum, unnecessary.

Fix things that are broke, don't re-design things that aren't. For those that feel like arguing with me, I have one single question... why can't we keyframe color correction in the color board! It's damned embarrassing and undermines the notion that this is a serious editing tool...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Craig Seeman
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 3:58:20 pm

The problems I have with the Color Board are:

Saturation and Exposure are really just sliders and they take up more screen real estate than necessary. They could be sliders placed closer together although I'm not sure what would fill the void in the current configuration.

The order of the tabs seem to be reverse of common use. Exposure should be first.

That one has to tab back and forth between Color, Saturation, Exposure hampers the interactive nature of grading which is what Hawaiki addresses by making it all one screen.

The nature of the Color portion of the Color Board means that pucks can often end up in close proximity or overlapping at times, making selection and movement very finicky. Having separate wheels avoids that.

Color wheels seem more intuitive because the wheels make it more obvious what colors you are moving towards/away from. The Color Board completely obscures this which IMHO makes both learning and accomplishing grading more complex to understand, not easier.

While the Color Board is fairly deep for a grading feature built in to an NLE, the UI seems contrived and awkward. While it might seem "elegant" that Apple utilizes everything within a small portion of the interface, it's ultimately more space efficient than grading UI efficient.

Hawaiki Color has everything on a single screen, easy to move back and forth, separate wheels. It means fewer clicks to do a basic grade with easier use of the mouse to do it all.



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Mitch Ives
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 4:22:28 pm

[Craig Seeman] "While the Color Board is fairly deep for a grading feature built in to an NLE, the UI seems contrived and awkward. While it might seem "elegant" that Apple utilizes everything within a small portion of the interface, it's ultimately more space efficient than grading UI efficient."

I agree with your entire post, but the above statement may be the most succinct comment I've read about the Color Board...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Mark Dobson
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 4:05:19 pm

[Mitch Ives] "Fix things that are broke, don't re-design things that aren't."

Well that's FCPX for you.

I personally find the FCPX color board a pretty powerful tool short of using an external corrector / grading software such as Resolve. It's taken a while and I still see myself looking at the little color wheel icon for opposites but the simplicity of the controls belies what a powerful and clean color corrector it is.

I'm hoping that the next update will see some improvements, maybe a return to the wheels as an option and a greater degree of control over the secondary masks such as is found in the brilliant Slice X.

But through using more than one correction it's possible to fix most problems and to transform or correct dull shots. Using the FCPX corrector in tandem with the improved scopes adds up to a pretty powerful app. I use to process Canon Log files and am astonished at the degree of control I can achieve through combining secondary masks and multiple corrections. The trick for me is not to try and fix everything in one correction.

I've tried Hawaiki Color and find it a bit too fiddly for me and I also perversely don't like the onscreen controls and have noticed that these are also reflected in the scopes which is off-putting, I know you can turn them off . . .

Thanks to Simon I have been a beta tester with the Hawaiki Auto Adjust plugin which has just been launched and this is brilliant for correcting white balance. But as others have said I think that the plugin developers have been both aided and shackled by the motion template architecture.


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Mitch Ives
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 4:29:05 pm

[Mark Dobson] "Thanks to Simon I have been a beta tester with the Hawaiki Auto Adjust plugin which has just been launched and this is brilliant for correcting white balance. "

Is that one possibly called Hawaiki AutoGrade?



[Mark Dobson] "But as others have said I think that the plugin developers have been both aided and shackled by the motion template architecture."

Yes, it does seem to be an anchor that FCP X is dragging. The irony is that there is no round-tripping between FCPX and Motion, which we had in the old versions...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Mark Dobson
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 4:31:07 pm

[Mitch Ives] "Is that one possibly called Hawaiki AutoGrade?"

Thank's Mitch, that's right - Hawaiki AutoGrade - available via FX FActory


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Mitch Ives
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 4:44:34 pm

At the annual "FCPX plugins Awards" I nominate AutoGrade as the best $20 FCPX plugin in the known solar system...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 7:40:48 pm

[Mitch Ives] "At the annual "FCPX plugins Awards" I nominate AutoGrade as the best $20 FCPX plugin in the known solar system..."

Is that a tuxedo affair? Do we lose our nomination when the price goes up next week to an eye-watering $29?

Seriously, though, many thanks to Mitch, Craig, Jeremy, Mark, and Oliver for your support. It is hugely appreciated!

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 4:46:29 pm

[Mitch Ives] "[Mark Dobson] "But as others have said I think that the plugin developers have been both aided and shackled by the motion template architecture."

Yes, it does seem to be an anchor that FCP X is dragging. The irony is that there is no round-tripping between FCPX and Motion, which we had in the old versions..."


I'm not so sure it's an anchor, but more of a foundation. The next level isn't quite built yet.

There is more connectivity to Motion than ever before while simultaneously having less connection than ever before.


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Mitch Ives
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 4:52:24 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "There is more connectivity to Motion than ever before while simultaneously having less connection than ever before."

Okay, this gets added to the "classic quotes" series...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 5:26:57 pm

[Mitch Ives] "Okay, this gets added to the "classic quotes" series..."

I aim to please!

It's true, though.

You can open certain things in Motion right from FCPX.

You can create certain things in Motion and use them in FCPX.

Unfortunately, some of the things you can't send back and forth is footage. :-(

But you can create room for footage in drop zones! :-|

Notice the indifference.

Unfortunately, it's all a bit "templatey" now. Meaning you can create a template type of thing and use it.

If templates are useful to you, then this is awesome.

What the workflow is missing at this point, is custom shot work. This is why plugs like Hawaiki, SliceX, and Nattress allow more custom creativity at this point, and it all happens right in FCPX, weird interfaces and all. I have been waiting for things like this for a long time. I, for one, look forward to these types of developments even if they aren't perfect. It is much more capability than is currently available in Final Cut Pro 7. At a very basic level, that's all I really want.


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Mitch Ives
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 5:58:22 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I, for one, look forward to these types of developments even if they aren't perfect. It is much more capability than is currently available in Final Cut Pro 7. At a very basic level, that's all I really want."

Exactly, and this is the true brilliance of Apple. These plugins are more affordable than ever and add to FCPX in ways that Apple couldn't have thought of by themselves...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Craig Seeman
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 7, 2013 at 4:54:00 pm

Rigging and Publishing is an excellent "cross-connect." It's two way in that you can click on an effect and open in Motion to modify. Basically Apple has focused on the conduit for the effects engine but hasn't yet shown how they will handle the media cross-connect. Of course we hope it's on the way,

it's just Apple has thus far focused on the new communication and not yet worked on the new way to do the old "send to Motion." Actually I'm hoping it's a bit more nifty when that happens.



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Oliver Peters
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Aug 8, 2013 at 4:19:44 pm

I think part of the complaints with the CB UI are alleviated if you map keyboard keystrokes. All of the functions have numerical values and these can be easily mapped. I think Steve & Mark (Ripple) had a tip a few months ago on MacBreak Studio about doing this.

In general, I'm a big proponent of color grading inside the NLE if the toolset is right. Even the big guns like Quantel Pablo are at their heart an NLE. It just so happened that the grading side brought more success.

I've done this for years with Symphony, but also MC and FCP "legacy". I've run Color, SpeedGrade and Resolve and these are all wonderful, but deep programs. The actual color correction tools in Resolve aren't vastly superior to Color, but the rest of the application (conforming, grouping, etc.) is deep and rather unintuitive. If you only access Resolve via round-tripping, you tend not to touch these. Truly understanding what they do, requires serious RTFM. ;-)

If I'm already working in an NLE/database manager/conforming application (like just about any NLE), then why should I re-invent the wheel? Unless you get into very exotic grades, most of the correction you'd like to achieve can be done in the available NLE tools.

That's what Hawaiki brings to the table. An easily understood, yet powerful tool, that lets you stay within the application. In effect, it's (sort of) a much "lighter" version of the Baselight Editions plug-in. Of course, at the cost, it's rather amazing.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Hawaiki Color for Final Cut Pro X
on Sep 27, 2013 at 10:17:59 pm

This thread's a bit old, but for a deeper look:

http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2013/09/26/hawaiki-color/

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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