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FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?

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Neil Goodman
FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 5:27:55 pm

So ive got a few FCPX projects under my belt now. All freelance stuff where i had the choice to cut on whatever, nothing too crazy, sizzle type stuff and a few commercial spots and one narrative scene from a short.

Where are the power users finding there speed increases from?

So far the one place where i find i can do stuff faster in X than another NLE is when i need to rearrange sections or scenes of the edit. Picking up huge chunks of clips and dropping them wherever, while FCPX moves everything else out of the way and back into place is a huge timesaver. Great use of magnetism in the timeline.

Other than that, im not finding the software to speed up the editing process for me. Its not going any slower, but faster, not so much

Ive heard some say the lack of tracks saves time because of no track assignments but i think it takes less time to properly patch tracks in the first place with a key command (ALA AVID), then to drop stuff wherever, and then later to select roles. Thats just one example i can think of that didnt work out to be faster for me.

Also key-wording, and favorites, takes the the same amount of time as properly labeling clips and subclipping does in any other NLE at least in my findings, although i do like how the events can be sorted to show only this or that, etc.

I ask with complete sincerity and curiosity, as for some projects, id really like X to work for me, i know it will one day become a player in the post world and all i hear from the people on this board that have fully adopted the program is that theyve increased there productivity tenfold. Id like to do this too.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 8:09:58 pm

[Neil Goodman] "Where are the power users finding there speed increases from? "

Not from where I expected.

I don't find that much increase in speed in timeline operations either - tho I suspect some will depending on the type of work they do and how they come to assemble their assets in terms of stacks and groupings. This is also true if an editor has content that can use Auditions and builds their own Motion templates that they can so easily modify show to show.

But some editors come to every project as a blank slate and are conditioned to build everything from scratch. And for those editors, I suspect X will reveal it's efficiency slowly.

For me, the speed has come from two places. First, learning a series of strategies for using the Event Browser database to drive grouping behavior. Not just "here are my assets for this project" but using ordering labeling to shuffle clips into the edit order I prefer before I begin my cut. Then when I import the batch, they appear on the timeline magnetically - cut into something like the right order very rapidly. Again, this pre-supposes you have the type of program that is designed for orderly progression. But anything script driven will be like that. I commonly use simple paragraph numbers combined with ordring tags in the Event Browser to load my trimmed scenes into the Storyline IN ORDER - to begin an edit.

The second big speed increase for me is in Export. Building my system of client review portals and email "in progress" targets makes it super easy to do the back end stuff with a click.

And in the main storyline, I suppose part of it is that it just seems so fast and easy now. It's as "reflexive" as Legacy ever was for me. It just took a year or so of use to become this fluid. Not becuase I struggled for the entire year. But because even when I had learned 50% the deep edit functions of X, I had to stop and think about things whenever I ran into something in the other 50%.

For me, that's down to maybe 15% of my time that I have to stop and think about anything.

The rest of the time I just make the program, reflexively. And it FEELS really, really fast when I do that.

X presents some new tools - the integrated database being a prime example. But it doesn't present any more efficiency than a name and address file - UNTIL you put names and addresses into it. Once you do that, you start to think, Hey, I can also put notes in this. And sort them. And so it becomes a new way of viewing what used to be a simple thing. I guess I d say the longer you have the tool, the more things you discover you can do with it. And that's what drives the efficiency for me.

Hope that helps.

FINAL NOTE: I wan't going to promote this overtly, but for whoever is interested, the Arizona FCP Users Group I host, is doing a test live webcast of our meeting tonight.

It's at azfcpug.org if anyone wants to tune in and chuckle at whatever I screw up. Tonight at 7pm Mountain Time. Be kind. It's a trial and I've never done anything like this before.

Agenda is on the website.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Jacob Brown
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 11:22:21 pm

hey bill -- looking forward to getting schooled on keyboard shortcuts


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 4:10:56 pm

It was a little surreal. And I'm definitely not sure I "schooled" anyone on anything. But I tried to give a basic overview for the legions who are not full time editors - on some of the power of moving away from the mouse.

I still feel it's really easy here to presume that everyone coming to X already knows all the fundamentals of basic editing. But I"m also mindful of a stat that crossed my view a week or so ago that for everyone who posts to web forums like this - there are 99 others who NEVER post, just lurk and read and try to learn. While quite a few of those on a board like this are also very experienced pros - not all are in that category. There are the educators and corporate folks and lone wolfs who want to learn X and editing, but don't already have lots of years in an edit chair.

So I wanted to start at square one. I tried to cover roughly 30 of the most commonly used keyboard shortcuts in X - starting with the ones that ONLY apply to X - then doing the JKL transport review - and finally, some of the stuff mentioned by the talented editors here like the top and tail commands and some more advance navigation stuff - heck, If I can do 30 per "episode" then it will only take me vaguely a year to get to all the 306 standard as shipped X shortcuts!

If nothing else, the experiment taught me how hard it is to put together an interesting live to the web program. (A standard I feel I fell really far short of on this first modest experiment! Some stuff took WAY too long - I gotta remember the "short attention span theatre" nature of the new world!)

Plans are currently to do it again next month, but I think I'll try it from the more controlled environment in my own studio rather than as a location production.

At least that way, I can opt out of the "black drape" look. ; )

We'll see where it goes from here.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 8:41:25 pm

To me one of the main speed increases comes from the way X handles FX. Most of the time you don't even need to render as long as you have the SSD iMac setup, unless of course you start adding in third party FX or several layers of color correction, but even then rendering is very fast.

In FCP 7, whenever I add a title or a corner bug or add a simple color correction I need to render most of the time, on a 12 core. If I ever dare to use basic Magic Bullet presets rendertimes increase drastically, and FXFactory effects are very clunky on 7, especially after using them in X

Rendering a 6 second lower third on a color corrected ProRes Clip takes about 2 - 3 minutes in Legacy, in X about 10-20sec. Exporting a 6 minute unrendered sequence in Legacy takes about 25 minutes, in X about 7 to 10.

The cool thing is skimming fx, and if you click on the fx icon you can hit play and preview the effect. Very fast if a client wants to see what the effect actually looks like.

As for the magnetic timeline, I wouldn't say that I'm that much faster as on Legacy. The nice thing though is you don't ever have to worry about overwriting something in X. In Legacy whenever you want to move a clip with corresponding audio, say you move your clip up a track and over a few cuts the audio moves down the audio tracks, most of the time you spend time making sure you don't overwrite anything, and most of the time you start moving video and audio seperately. If you leave your audio connected in X you never have this problem and disconnected audio will never delete another audio portion, unless you use p and move it into the primary.

In my opinion roles are faster than tracks. Audio from imported footage gets the dialog role by default, audio from the effects library is labeled as effects and music from iTunes is labeled as music. So before exporting seperate tracks all you need to do is make sure your clips are labeled correctly, unless you are using clips not inside Apples libraries, the you need to do some re labeling. Turning roles on and off is very fast. Even the last experimental feature I cut, which was a mess of sounds and footage from different sources, I never had a problem knowing where my clips were. Of course, at times a sound effect is under the music, the next one happens to be over the music and the next one I just put over a lower third generator... X shuffles clips vertically not horizontally, just a matter of getting used to where things are going.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 9:24:29 pm

[Nikolas Bäurle] "In my opinion roles are faster than tracks. "

I'm not sure the two things are comparable. One demands a tagging process to impose order, the other actually is extant order you walk into.
I'm OK with that distinction being discarded with bins v tagging -
-but I still think the way X forces you to pre-construct timeline audio order via pre-tagging is a bag of unnecessary cats.
Timeline functioning order is not supposed to require meticulous preparation.

the timeline, to argue, is supposed to formally set the absolute minimum number of clearly delineated rules possible.You know, like that dude occam with his razor. It enforces broadly understood logic of operation for any scenario.

I don't think the FCPX timeline of primary, secondary, connected, roles, you can make a dissolve, you can't make a dissolve now etc...
quite succeeds in that task.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 11:21:02 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Timeline functioning order is not supposed to require meticulous preparation."

But in my experience I'm faster finishing sound on X than Legacy, and I'm a very fast Legacy User. Tracks don't make organization better unless the editor is orderly. I've dealt with very sloppy Avid and FCP Timelines on occasion. In Track based NLEs you spend time making sure your sounds are in the right place as much as in X. For example, in Legacy you decide before you cut the sound in where its supposed to go. During editing if you start using many effects overlapping each other , for example, you end up with more tracks than the required 1 track for effects and atmo the Networks need, so you end up remapping all your effects tracks for them to export correctly.

in X you put the clips in the timeline, open the inspector, turn off the sound you don't need, by default everything imported has the video, dialogue role tag. FX imported through iTunes is automatically tagged as effects, So if I need to use more tracks for overlapping FX, atmos or dialogue you don't need to remap anything, simply make sure the footage is tagged correctly.

Now, adding transitions takes one or two steps more in X than Legacy, not a big deal. In the secondary you turn the clips into a storyline and your good to go. It's just a matter of getting used to it.

Personally I prefer the primary/secondary deal. In my opinion it forces you to keep your stuff organized and compounding is a very handy tool. Tracks don't make it easier, and there's plenty of sloppy timelines, especially when dealing editors putting FX and footage all over the place on 15 tracks, where 2 would have been enough.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 7:03:28 pm

you make good points there but -

[Nikolas Bäurle] "adding transitions takes one or two steps more in X than Legacy, not a big deal. In the secondary you turn the clips into a storyline and your good to go."

the fact is you have to change editing modality to allow dissolves. that's weird. do you know? I think the audio component requires way too much pre-preparation to make it workable, you're right that tracked timelines can be messy - but there is implicit order presented as a basic, easily intelligible visible framework. X offers no such logical framework - just a demand that you pre-tag the hell out of every audio object entering the timeline. Also the video rules apple dreamed up can verge on arbitrary, like in the instance above.

totally get that you can get very fond of the app tho - plenty have. plus the points I'm making there are pre-cambrian they are so old, and have been hashed out a million, million times here - so a bit redundant really!

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 4:29:19 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "the fact is you have to change editing modality to allow dissolves."

Unless I'm mis-reading you (a possibility) this is just incorrect.

In X you just park on a cut and hit Command T ("transition, like Legacy) and it auto-inserts whatever default dissolve you've established (or 1 sec if you haven't specified anything different.)

No such "mode change" is involved at all unless you're not in select, but hitting A to PARK the software in Select Mode after any mode change is now muscle reflexive for me. So my brain presumes that I'm "always" in Select. Which means that I can ALWAYS auto-insert a dissolve instantly.

It's just conditioning, like ANY NLE.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 9:00:10 pm

Ok - I *have actually tried it out on a few fairly low key corpo pieces where I got a drive handed to me -
I haven't really put enough real time in, but I have been at it for a while off and on - I think interrogating the footage is actually faster?
simply because they've short circuited double click stamping a clip into the source - I'm not kidding - just that alone.
skimming and tagging across the material feels pretty accelerated.

My problem is still the enforced, from mars (for current editors) timeline vocabulary/methodology Apple decided on.
It's still just in too much of a bubble. I get that if you grok it you reap rewards -

but, and for the millionth time, there is the issue that pretty much no one (yes bar the BBC doc guy) is employing it my way.

ESPN london shut today - I took a photo leaving the suite - BT taking over the sport, in their setup, have gone for twenty avid suites. Four for promos.
ESPN was pure FCP.

Hogarth went PPro, W&K are going avid - there is genuinely some great stuff there in FCPX,
but the problem is that apple are still dancing nearly completely by themselves .

You just cannot get paid to cut in X. not corpo, not broadcast, not anything here. Ronny Courtens can speak differently to parts of the EU tho. there are pockets.
Established shop owning editors, of which there are many here, can make their own choices entirely.

but that's my broad problem with apple's editing system. Its not FCP, and its not in the environment early FCP was in.
There is no buy in so far.
It's very very hard to see this software as some unseen early 2000's pro editing up and comer.

If things changes, watch me recant.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Brett Sherman
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 9:15:50 pm

Finding footage is sooo much faster. I tend to edit 5 minute videos out of hours of material. Since this is where I spend the bulk of my time when editing it speeds up the entire process.

Why is it faster at this? The way it handles thumbnails, skimming, the filmstrip view, speed of the interface - all these combine to speed up the finding that needle in the haystack.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 9:35:59 pm

[Brett Sherman] "combine to speed up the finding that needle in the haystack."

for sure - no question. As plenty of people have said - apple cracked a ton of things in X.
You'd just wonder if they didn't over-do it in the end, in horse and water terms.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 10:36:23 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "My problem is still the enforced, from mars (for current editors) timeline vocabulary/methodology Apple decided on.
It's still just in too much of a bubble. I get that if you grok it you reap rewards - "


I'm tellin ya man, once it clicks, it's pretty sweet. Honestly, i've been cutting real work in X since 10.0.4, and I'm still having little "aha!" moments. and like i said, When I go to cut in a "traditional" NLE, that's where I feel "enforced".

I'll agree it's hard to get used to coming from decades fo doing it pretty much the same in all NLE's. I'll agree that it needs polish and enhancement. But it's not a mess at all.

I've been porting some spots today for the technophobes. This nice, clean, easily searchable (to me, and anyone familiar with use of X's index) sequence, that's fits in my screen with a decent sized Edit Monitor window:



Becomes this, busy, ugly, mess, that I could only fit all of by making the Edit Monitor the size of a postage stamp and overlapping it.



Yes, i could play Track Tetris and compact it, but the it wouldn't be all nicely split out and organized. It would be a big mess, with dialog and FX all mixed up etc. The X timeline can be muted, soloed, manipulated with a mouse click. It may look like a mess, but it most certainly is not. Anyone who knows X could sit down in front of it, and in 10 seconds figure out what everything in that timeline is. Just like the 7 timeline taking up all that space with it's tracks.

Sorry, just on a tear today because i have to take my nice X spots and waste time making them accessible to Luddites. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 11:55:39 pm

[Charlie Austin] "I'm tellin ya man, once it clicks, it's pretty sweet."

I get you - I am the only person I know who actually paid for it, and has executed spots in it. This is only one town mind you.

[Charlie Austin] "I'll agree it's hard to get used to coming from decades of doing it pretty much the same in all NLE's."

I think you're missing the point. FCP was one of the more forcefully democratising things I've ever seen in pro software?
An incredibly broad range of people grew to understand it? - artists, mo-graph, journos, just an incredible host of people.

But apple really did ditch that -and so, as we all feel FCP classic finally close down across the industry -
feel every site go cold - have apple served these artists well?

Or were apple, possibly stupid gits who got high on their own supply?
And in the process destroyed a nascent democratisation of editing because they were egotistical morons who couldn't see the sunshine in front of their face?

Charlie - it's avid as far as the eye can see now. That is the end result, and I am practising nesting effects for god's sake.
we are left with avid, because the clients are left hearing about avid. the horror.

I'm not joking - on one level - X is just the stupidest, most destructive software ever put to market. forget the merits - its a bombsite.


[Charlie Austin] "Anyone who knows X could sit down in front of it, and in 10 seconds figure out what everything in that timeline is. "

well, yes charlie.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 12:47:57 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I'm not joking - on one level - X is just the stupidest, most destructive software ever put to market. forget the merits - its a bombsite."

Well, sure, on one level. The dinosaur houses. And i say this as a card carrying member of this group. And they may all switch to Avid, as they, we, ever so slowly decline into irrelevance. Remember the Music industry? Recording studios? Giant record labels? How's that working out? It's happening on the visual side too. And I really think what Apple has done with X is anticipate that. Maybe they were early... maybe not. X is pretty damn democratizing though. I think the people who have the hardest time with it are editors. :-)

[Aindreas Gallagher] "[Charlie Austin] "Anyone who knows X could sit down in front of it, and in 10 seconds figure out what everything in that timeline is. "

well, yes charlie."


I wasn't saying this to be disingenuous... A lot of complaints about the trackless timeline are based on the "how will my (assistant/collaborator/whatever) know what is what unless I can split everything out to separate tracks and then give them a track sheet or tell them what is on each track?!?!?!" Well, it's stupidly simple if you've assigned Roles to everything. All your "tracks" are in a list in an index and you highlight/select/mute/solo them from there. And yes, it needs to be better and more granular/flexible/bus-able/mix-able etc. Another version of X or so, and Walter Murch could use Roles for his famous FCP Classic timeline. He wouldn't need such a big screen. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 1:08:02 pm

[Charlie Austin] "as they, we, ever so slowly decline into irrelevance. Remember the Music industry? "

but charlie - TV, broadcast, media whatever - its expanding, look at netflix for god's sake, or where youtube and amazon are going - and in its case torrenting is shown to be a multiplier

you're making a pretty weird argument and I don't think it accurately represents where things are going?

but leaving that aside, I wouldn't care if X was looking like a winner - I'd knuckle under and start wading in properly, but its not.

I'd be really really happy if premiere won, but shantanyu narayen just shafted its chances of broad adoption.

So its going to be a lot of avid. Avid is now officially unavoidable. The one package, coming from FCP - that you now know you absolutely have to learn, is avid.

Premiere comes second, and X is for sole operators who dig it and the curious with spare time.
After ten years of steady broadening and democratising of the skills base under FCP, this is not the ideal result for anyone. Except of course for the - arse plugged in the chair for the last twenty years - Avid editors, who we had completely on the rack, they are laughing like braying donkeys and marvelling at the fact that they just got tabs and audio keyframes or something. the fatuous morons.

we nearly had them charlie. they were on the run. Now its middle aged Avid dicks crowing about their clapped out software as far as the eye can see.

thanks universe, thanks for nothing.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Herb Sevush
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 2:26:42 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] " Now its middle aged Avid dicks crowing about their clapped out software as far as the eye can see. thanks universe, thanks for nothing."

Beautiful.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 3:13:20 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "but charlie - TV, broadcast, media whatever - its expanding, look at netflix for god's sake, or where youtube and amazon are going - and in its case torrenting is shown to be a multiplier

you're making a pretty weird argument and I don't think it accurately represents where things are going?"


I'm not arguing that it's going away, just that the monolithic, central control is going away. I think that the music industry - in the sense of the amount of people making and distributing music - is larger than it's ever been... Instead of a few people/companies making all the money, there are now thousands... millions of people making.. less money. :-)

I'm just saying that the current visual media production and distribution model is undergoing the same transformation. The system that dictates that you must use this system or that system to produce your media because that's what we require, is crumbling... slowly...


[Aindreas Gallagher] "we nearly had them charlie. they were on the run. Now its middle aged Avid dicks crowing about their clapped out software as far as the eye can see."

LOL... For the moment, maybe. I don't think it's over yet. I'm in the heart of the machine, and I can see the cracks forming... ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Daniel Frome
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 4:35:21 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Premiere comes second, and X is for sole operators who dig it and the curious with spare time.
After ten years of steady broadening and democratising of the skills base under FCP, this is not the ideal result for anyone. Except of course for the - arse plugged in the chair for the last twenty years - Avid editors, who we had completely on the rack, they are laughing like braying donkeys and marvelling at the fact that they just got tabs and audio keyframes or something. the fatuous morons."


Ha ha, oh Aindreas, I know you must be a good editor because you are a fabulous writer. I really do hope that competition keeps all three of these NLE makers in check.


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 10:53:05 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "You just cannot get paid to cut in X. not corpo, not broadcast, not anything here. Ronny Courtens can speak differently to parts of the EU tho. there are pockets.
Established shop owning editors, of which there are many here, can make their own choices entirely."


X establishing itself in big production houses will be a while, and might never happen. In Berlin more and more people are using it though. Most of these jobs happen through connections and so far I've only met shop owning editors, and then you do have a few cases i've heard of postproduction facilities needing to deal with producers X projects.

I just trained a FCP7/Premiere/AFX editor who never thought about looking at X until I offered him a job, it took him about a day of watching me and half a day of me breathing down his neck for him to be completely proficient. it took him half an hour to realise that he had underestimated the software.

I believe the problem its about the nature of big houses. There's not as much room for experimentation, things need to work almost immediately. Then there is the pc vs mac deal. DW-TV for example, uses PC and NewsCutter, I doubt they will ever use macs, other than the few they have standing around to accommodate some VJs. But plenty of producers, editors and even some speakers have X at home.

I believe at some point, even if it takes a few years, X will be ahead of the game. There more things like video on demand, eBooks and cloud storage improve the more big companies will have to adapt.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 11:03:35 pm

[Nikolas Bäurle] "I believe the problem its about the nature of big houses. There's not as much room for experimentation, things need to work almost immediately."

Exactly. I think that's why people are looking at PPro over X. It's a fine program, but mostly it behaves pretty similarly to FCP 7. There's a learning curve, but it's generally figuring out which button does what. Other than that it's the same old workfolw... Most larger places don't have a lot of down time to experiment.

Once you can just drop X into a large workflow, (which you kinda can do now but a few more pieces need to come together), I think more folks will give it a look.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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tony west
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 1:08:06 am

[Nikolas Bäurle] "I believe the problem its about the nature of big houses. There's not as much room for experimentation, things need to work almost immediately."

Nikolas, I know this has already been seconded but I just want to third it.

You nailed this.

Many of these places just don't have time to be messing around with something as different as X and taking chances with it. Also all they have heard is negative things about it. They might not have tried it even if they heard it was great because of the learning curve. (although I think it's the easiest NLE to learn)


Anyway, moving chunks around is fast, the skimmer may be one of the most underrated parts of the program.

I can simply fly through footage with it. Whenever I have to work without the skimmer I go crazy : )

Just dragging those audio faders

It's all these little things in combination that makes the entire process faster for me.

My prediction is that big houses will end up having X in there with Avid because just too many young people will already be trained on it.


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Richard Herd
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 9:00:55 pm

[tony west] "They might not have tried it even if they heard it was great because of the learning curve. ("

I teach my students to edit in X. They're High Schoolers. Sometimes we use premiere, but for them X is just too intuitive. Very interesting to watch. For example, we do an assignment called "Pass the Salt," which is two actors reciting meaningless dialogue that they have to use their voices to bring meaning. We cover the scene in WS, MS, CU-1, CU-2, OTS-1, OTS-2. When we used Premiere to edit, I planned for two weeks of instruction. Now, no kidding, it is ONE DAY. So I taught them how to j-cut, l-cut, add effects, color effects, audio edit, foley, sound effects -- curriculum I did not have time to get to using Premiere. When it's exported and on youtube or facebook, no one even comes close to caring about the editing program debates.

My question is when these kids (now 14-18) get into a "big studio," what are they going to say? When they are bosses making business decisions in 15 years, what are they going to buy?

When I first worked at a studio, the old-dude was super stoked on his $5,000 ATTO RAID 0, for cutting NTSC/DV footage 720x480. I showed him firewire.

Now it appears I'm the old dude.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 9:54:33 pm

[Richard Herd] "I planned for two weeks of instruction. Now, no kidding, it is ONE DAY. "

really? I get its got some deep apple thinking around first apprehension and understanding, that they are exposing the likely connected editing framework to highlight it - god knows they're the only people who could ever try this for video, but that extreme a response?

Also - aren't these people maybe going to hit an issue when they approach narrative, doco corpo and the rest of the stuff?
How long are they supposed to hit the market like FCPX lemmings/salmon?

Given that the entire ten year FCP shift is now collapsing across the industry - why exactly are entrants with X, however many they might be - how exactly is this supposed to work?

FCP is probably dead this year, possibly drags into the first six months of next year - premiere is literally getting killed by adobe's defensive move to core app subscription, apple are doing a thing with X of some sort, but the third level feeder colleges aren't adopting X (are they? please correct me). and that moron software I'm struggling to learn - yes everyone, Avid, maybe with tabs and audio keyframes, is cock-a-hoop.

you know who's fault this is? Apple's.
they were thoughtless dicks, they thought they could re-imagine the world, and they made a complete mess of editing for untold numbers of people.

they almost shouldn't be allowed drive. their software license should be taken away. It's an insane mess.

the only thing they had to do was carefully ease the 40% market egg they were holding into transition, and they would have safeguarded the existing and growing democratisation of editing.

instead they chose to go up their own secondary story software arse.
there is, and never will be a student X wave. - go marvel gag - the only thing of note that is happening right now, is the complete shutdown of the broadly democratising FCP skillset.

A retrograde step Apple have personally presided over. they are a house of self involved idiots.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Steve Connor
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 8:39:46 am

It's good to have Aindreas back

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 4:16:32 pm

I dunno - I just put my reply above into the search box and it returned 137 results of nearly identical rants I've had over the last two years. bit worrying really.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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John Davidson
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 5:44:15 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I dunno - I just put my reply above into the search box and it returned 137 results of nearly identical rants I've had over the last two years. bit worrying really."

Plagiarizing yourself? Congratulations! That means you could work for the New York Times!

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Richard Herd
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 11:12:17 pm

FYI...

I show my class John's video on editing, which is great. I have it saved at school not at home (summer break), but it's the one where he edits a sizzle reel. Super cool overview of editing. Incidentally, someone should make a "Hell Kitchen" type of show for Editors based on John's film language in that video.


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John Davidson
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 11:25:04 pm

(Blush). Aw shucks. Thanks again. I've thought about using my nephews wedding vid as an example of multicam and syncing. Like Bill says, time is our enemy. We just upgraded our office (moving day today) so I have no idea when I can make more. Content legalities are the biggest issue.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 5, 2013 at 3:14:30 am

Hey John,

If you want, I've got four projects worth of multi-cam content that I own.

If you want to mess with it for anything instructional, just drop me a note.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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tony west
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 3:40:17 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] " why exactly are entrants with X, however many they might be - how exactly is this supposed to work?"


Many students at college are being taught AVID but they have X on their personal computers.

They will approach stations or productions houses to get hired with their AVID skills.

If that fails, they will be out there with their 2 thousand dollar dslr's and their X, hustling web and corp work.

It's really about economics. Many College students don't have much money. They have insane debt to payback these days.

You couldn't get into the game years ago unless you had money. Now it doesn't take near as much money.

They are coming in one way or another. They can afford the dslr and X

Do you have many interns working at your place?

Every year we get a bunch and I always ask them questions.

What are you learning on? What do you want to do? What are your goals?

They tell me what their plans and goals are.

I like to go to the horse's mouth for info.
They are asking me questions about the biz and I'm asking them to see where things are going for them.

Things are so different now than when many of us got out of college.

And then there this……..

I was talking to a young person the other day and he told me that he wasn't going to go to college.

That he was going to save his money and just buy a RED

I didn't really like hearing him say that, but with the cost of college these days, I couldn't really say it was a horrible plan.


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Richard Herd
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 11:05:59 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "really?"

Really.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "aren't these people maybe going to hit an issue when they approach narrative, doco corpo and the rest of the stuff? "

No. X handles those just fine.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "How long are they supposed to hit the market like FCPX lemmings/salmon?"

Editors "in the market" are good (or bad) because they can (or cannot) tell a story in moving pictures. Once the movie is exported, no one cares about the software. True, there are some folks claiming editing software is akin to a Hollywood fashion industry. But if the reels from my students are good, then they will get into programs and internships. It's at that point, where I'm certain the industry will shift, five to ten years (depending on depreciation schedule). Imagine you've been cutting dialogue scenes in X (like I teach) and then a boss says, "Okay, now use Avid." I'm sure my students will work hard to get it finished; then, they will sneak the footage home and cut it on their $1200 iMac.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "they made a complete mess of editing for untold numbers of people."

As a set theory problem, you have it backwards; that is, the set of people for whom Apple made editing a complete mess is less than the set of people for whom editing is now a complete not-mess. The former number, and the context of "the old editors," is a fixed sum that decreases with every one who passes on to the next life or changes to X. The latter number is infinite (n+1), assuming X remains static.

There's a few other interesting observations for educators:

1. We use the iMac's built-in mic for recording voice over in the timeline (in the first level course); in the second level course we use an audio I/O and a microphone -- but the quality is very similar after CMD-8.

2. My editing lab has 2 iMacs and 5 Win7pro64 running Premiere. The RAM from the Windows was stolen. iMacs are closed up tight.

3. I really don't know how I'm going to afford Premiere.

4. Although AVID is a great price for educators ($300), and I'm waiting for grant money to buy it, I cannot imagine forcing my students to use it. It's comparatively clunky and while I haven't used Avid since 2003, from the point of view of a 14 - 18 year old high school student who has cut maybe 2 things total, I can already hear their pleas: "Mr. Herd, please can I just do this in X?"

What will I say? "No. You need to learn this software so you can be employable." Which is actually an argument I disagree with, that schools are there for training workers to get jobs, so I'm finding it difficult to teach obsolescence. And by obsolescence I mean what took 2 weeks takes 1 day. I'm sure the snooty editors trumpeting "but I work in the 2% and there are no jobs in X" will no doubt comfort themselves by thinking "but that's high school and I'm a pro." Yep. 2 weeks turned to 1 day, for kids who knew nothing, not even where Apple hides the on-button. I would not install X in a bona fide big studio environment till 10.1 and mac pro arrives, but that's a different issue than efficiency of turning 2 weeks into 1 day. Avoiding X has to do with "Mr. Herd, why is the screen green?"

"I don't know. Let's reboot and see if that fixes it."

-Rich


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 4, 2013 at 12:53:49 am

[Richard Herd] "4. Although AVID is a great price for educators ($300), and I'm waiting for grant money to buy it, I cannot imagine forcing my students to use it. It's comparatively clunky and while I haven't used Avid since 2003, from the point of view of a 14 - 18 year old high school student who has cut maybe 2 things total, I can already hear their pleas: "Mr. Herd, please can I just do this in X?""

This depends on the curriculum. If you are training film students bound for a major market or radio-TV students bound for TV station news departments, it is essential that they've been exposed to Avid. The other NLEs may be preferred, but Avid is what they will encounter in the workplace.

If they are bound for general digital media jobs or medium market production, then any NLE will do.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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tony west
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 1:00:16 am

[Richard Herd] "I teach my students to edit in X. They're High Schoolers."

Indeed, when I said learning curve I didn't mean that it would be hard for them to learn X

I agree, X is super user friendly, I just meant they might not want to even "try" to learn it.



[Richard Herd] "My question is when these kids (now 14-18) get into a "big studio," what are they going to say? When they are bosses making business decisions in 15 years, what are they going to buy? "


I'm not sure, but I would think that with a bunch of young folks already trained on a software that they have been on since HS, it would be hard to ignore a large pool of young people that could get up and running in your shop.




[Richard Herd] "Now it appears I'm the old dude."

hehehe


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Richard Herd
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 11:10:00 pm

I understood what you meant by learning curve. For me, there was a learning curve because Apple changed the name of the lingo and I had to read the manual. Now that I'm past that I teach editing using that jargon.

[tony west] "'m not sure, but I would think that with a bunch of young folks already trained on a software that they have been on since HS, it would be hard to ignore a large pool of young people that could get up and running in your shop."

Yeah, I vigorously agree!


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Dave Gage
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 3:15:53 am

Richard,

Sorry to be the dunce in the room but what does this mean...

[Richard Herd] "We cover the scene in WS, MS, CU-1, CU-2, OTS-1, OTS-2."
Cool story.

Thanks,
Dave


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 5:59:44 am

[Dave Gage] "Richard,

Sorry to be the dunce in the room but what does this mean...

[Richard Herd] "We cover the scene in WS, MS, CU-1, CU-2, OTS-1, OTS-2."
Cool story.

Thanks,
Dave"


Since he's not here, allow me.

"We cover the scene in wide shot, medium shot, close up character 1, close up character 2, over the shoulder 1 and over the shoulder 2.

Typical shot coverage of a two character dialog scene to give the editor options.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Richard Herd
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 5:34:35 pm

[Bill Davis] "Since he's not here, allow me."

Thanks!


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Dave Gage
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 8:46:15 pm

[Bill Davis] ""We cover the scene in wide shot, medium shot, close up character 1, close up character 2, over the shoulder 1 and over the shoulder 2."

I figured it was something like that. Every industry has their set of acronyms and abbreviations, I've never been a been fan of them in general (and of course with mobile devices, there's more and more of them). I started off before music as a photographer, so there's a lot about lighting and cameras that I already knew, but some of the pure film/movie terms I still can get tripped up on. When I first started with FCP 4.5, I had no idea what a "bin" was.

Thanks,
Dave


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 9:36:37 pm

[Neil Goodman] "Picking up huge chunks of clips and dropping them wherever, while FCPX moves everything else out of the way and back into place is a huge timesaver. Great use of magnetism in the timeline. "

Love this. Also love being able to rough cut using connected clips, with all the freedom that entails (like 7, PPro etc). Then, pop bits of the cut down to the primary when its "locked" for transitions and all the ripply goodness (Like MC) And then being able to pop stuff out and back in again as needed.

[Neil Goodman] "Ive heard some say the lack of tracks saves time because of no track assignments but i think it takes less time to properly patch tracks in the first place with a key command (ALA AVID), then to drop stuff wherever, and then later to select roles"

Assign the Roles in the event before you cut stuff in. Insanely easy, even with multichannel sources that need separate Roles. If you forget you can always do it in the Project as well. Ultimately way faster than patching, even using the KB.


[Neil Goodman] "Also key-wording, and favorites, takes the the same amount of time as properly labeling clips and subclipping does in any other NLE at least in my findings, although i do like how the events can be sorted to show only this or that, etc. "

The actual process is pretty similar time-wise. But what you can do with the data you enter is a huge timesaver.

[Neil Goodman] "that theyve increased there productivity tenfold. Id like to do this too."

I dunno about tenfold lol. But honestly, a lot of the stuff folks don't really crow about is what really sppeds things up for me. Searching, selecting clips from the index. Enabling/Disabling/Highlighting Roles from the index. Skimming in general is great once you get used to it, but Clip Skimming? I LLOOOVVE that. Makes things so much faster for me. Whats this clip? no need to solo, just skim the clip.
Also, Once you get all the KB shortcuts in your muscles, cutting really screams. For me anyway...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Michael Garber
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 9:52:52 pm

Speed Increases:

1. Not necessarily having to transcode (R3D + Alexa 4444). Background transcoding doesn't slow me down too much if drives are fast or left overnight.
2. Skimming. Huge. Not having to 2x-click each clip.
3. Making fixes / working with producer/director in the room. MTL makes that process very fast.
4. Batch renaming in X over 7. Can this be done in Avid?

Slowdowns:

1. When you make one itty bitty teeny tiny mistake on import or in creating roles or keywording, can complicate things down the road when timelines have been made.
2. Multi-user issues
3. Slowdowns in the timelines due to unexplainable issues or complex timelines.
4. Other little bugs/glitches due to early days on development or OS-based issues.
5. Making quick audio dissolves. Not necessarily a slowdown though. I find it slower but that I generally get it right on the first try, whereas I would futz around with an audio dissolve in 7 a lot.
6. Exports don't use rendered clips to build QT (AFAIK). That would be a nice speed increase if it worked that way.
7. Having to stop and thing, "how would I do this in FCP X vs another NLE?" Although I do consider that a good thing since it forces me to think about how I'm going to organize for the edit.

Areas of questionability that are supposed to increase speed - Roles. Just make sure that you've done it right to begin with and test everything before getting it out to an AAF.

Logging channel names for multichannel audio. Takes a little longer, but it really helps you out in the timeline.

I'm finding that I do every edit in X slightly different. Slight differences in how I keyword or group clips, etc... It's all based on how I see the edit going. Getting better at this with each edit.

I find the process of building the edit to take roughly same amount of time. That process tends to work at the speed of my brain making mental connections to what I need to place in the timeline.

Hope that helps.

Michael Garber
5th Wall - a post production company
Blog: GARBERSHOP
My Moviola Webinar on Cutting News in FCP X


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Jul 31, 2013 at 10:12:58 pm

[Michael Garber] "7. Having to stop and thing, "how would I do this in FCP X vs another NLE?" Although I do consider that a good thing since it forces me to think about how I'm going to organize for the edit."

Once you get past that point is when it really gets fun, though it's true of any new thing right? Honestly, lately I find the opposite to be true. In other NLE's I need to stop and think how this "used to work". :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Carsten Orlt
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 12:37:40 am

Speed is relative :-) As Michael said: I find the process of building the edit to take roughly same amount of time. That process tends to work at the speed of my brain making mental connections to what I need to place in the timeline.

BUT to organise my footage and finding things is lightyears ahead of Avid's and FCP7 I worked with.

I edit mainly natural history. Unscripted hours of footage. Before FCPx my only way to bring sense into the madness was to describe every single camera start stop with words using the 'notes' field. Therefor I had to come up with sensible description of what the action is within a clip. Not easy specially when a clip could hold stuff usable in many different context. After that I had to make select sequences to cut down the amount of possibilities and start to see some structure. If I needed some other bit to make it work back from my browser I had the sift through a lot of descriptions and double clicking clips to look at them.

You have no idea idea how much easier this is now. First I do a rough pass just creating keyword selection based on logical differences. I approach this as if I would create keywords for a stock footage search. I have location keywords, animal keywords, technical keywords, people keywords, activities keywords etc. as much as I think. Once I have done this I go through every clip and make favourites and rejects. favourite sections I like and reject stuff which is unusable.

After that Michael's quote comes into play. BUT if I ever need to find something I have multiple ways my brain can reach it. I might think of the location, or the animal or the person I'm looking for, or I even remember that is was a GoPro shot. Skimming through the result is quick and easy and aided by using 'hide rejected' show favourites etc.
If I find that I keep coming back to a combination of keywords I make a smart selection for it.

I as an editor couldn't be happier and the tiny little quirks FCPx have are like the quirks of my best friends: I do love them too because they make the whole person so much interesting!

Happy editing


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Neil Goodman
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 3:06:08 am

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I forgot about the skimmer, fricken love that, except i turn it off in the timeline and only use it in the event.

Finding footage and searching clips is indeed beyond the competition, and blows Avids "Find" function out of the water.

Unfortuneatly IMO, working in the timeline, the most important aspect of an NLE to me, still has a ways to go, and its nothing to do with the lack of tracks or magnetism. The trim functions are rather simple, and id love to see a proper trim tool implemented, its something at the moment i cant really get past. At the end of the day the timeline is very similiar to Media Composers in the sense of gaps vs filler, the ripple, etc.

Im gonna keep plugging away at it, and hope to find some more Aha moments.

Does anyone know if you can have different Keyboard setups, that you can call up at will? Couldnt find that. I like to customize the layouts based on if im doing Multicam or Audio, etc.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 3:34:33 am

[Neil Goodman] " except i turn it off in the timeline and only use it in the event. "

I generally keep it off in the timeline as well... unless I need to quickly whip around. And it a pretty great way to get around the timeline when you get used to it. Though it can get a little squirrely. :-) Anyway, if you think skimming is cool... you should turn Clip Skimming on and try that in the timeline. OPT-CMD-S :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Powell
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 4, 2013 at 9:45:28 am

Just set up another custom layout and give it a different name. The Go to "Final Cut Pro-Commands and you'll see all the different layout names you've made.


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Mark Raudonis
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 3:09:17 am

So far, NOBODY here to speak to collaborative, shared storage , work group editing.

Let's address that, shall we? Faster? Better organized? I'm all ears. Let's hear some stories.

Mark



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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 3:27:33 am

[Mark Raudonis] "So far, NOBODY here to speak to collaborative, shared storage , work group editing."

You mean like MC collaborative editing? There are some clues that more than one person may be able to work simultaneously on/from the same Project and or Event, but not yet. Sharing sequences etc like FCP Classic? On NAS requires a couple extra steps but totally doable. Even easier on a SAN. Editor A un-mounts location, Editor B opens it up. Shared storage works as it always has. Choose not to copy media to the event folder and it'll just reference it from a SAN or NAS just like anything else. FWIW, I'm in a shop with FCP X, 7, Pr, AE etc, all using the same shared media.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 12:11:44 pm

So far on the film that I'm cutting, the assistant and I are using simple sharing. I have the media locally connected on a MAXX Digital RAID and he accesses it via AFP. He organizes and syncs in his "dailies" Event and then I copy that to my machine. Open X, copy the "dailies" Event clips to my "master" Event. Exit X, hide the "dailies" Event, relaunch X. The workflow with FCP7, PProCC or MC7 would be similar in this environment.

Regarding overall speed... Some things are faster, some slower. My net results are about the same as compared with cutting on FCP7 or Media Composer. I organize a keyword collection for each scene. That works well, but I prefer actual bins.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Herb Sevush
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 1:53:13 pm

[Mark Raudonis] "So far, NOBODY here to speak to collaborative, shared storage , work group editing."

While we're asking, what about sharing with a remote editor. When cutting my 26 show series I take all the media from one episode, transfer it to a portable hard drive and then send it off to one of my collaborating editors. They send me back project files, or XMLs of timelines, which I relink to my media. Each episode has it's own project file. Is this possible with X and what would be the workflow?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Mark Dobson
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 2:23:01 pm

[Herb Sevush] "While we're asking, what about sharing with a remote editor. When cutting my 26 show series I take all the media from one episode, transfer it to a portable hard drive and then send it off to one of my collaborating editors. They send me back project files, or XMLs of timelines, which I relink to my media. Each episode has it's own project file. Is this possible with X and what would be the workflow?"

Hi Herb,

That's they way that we work on processing interview material after a shoot although not on the same scale as your 26 show series.

Once all the files have been imported and I've identified which ones contain interviews I copy those files onto a portable hard drive which our producer then references from an event she has created.

Once the analysis, favouriting and partial transcription has been completed I either manually copy her event into my events folder or re connect the portable drive and the event shows up in the event viewer. I then merge that event into my existing production event and reconnect media if required.

This would presumably also work for projects although they are considerably larger items.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 2:24:11 pm

[Herb Sevush] "They send me back project files, or XMLs of timelines, which I relink to my media. Each episode has it's own project file. Is this possible with X and what would be the workflow?"

Yes - and the workflow would be the same. Both editors have mirrored media and Event. The Project file (edited sequence) can be e-mailed back-and-forth. Then relink. Works the same across the country as across a facility. DropBox is good for this.

However, more to Mark's question... The kind of complex collaboration of multiple editors working multiple edit projects that is common in FCP7/Xsan or MC/ISIS facilities is not a strong point for X. When everyone understands the rules, then collaboration with X works - within a small group of editors.

If you want the more freeform functionality of "legacy" or MC, then X can cause a complete train wreck and is probably the last NLE I would recommend. Premiere Pro CC is far more suited and that's without touching Anywhere.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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John Davidson
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 10:09:30 pm

[Mark Raudonis] "Let's address that, shall we? Faster? Better organized? I'm all ears. Let's hear some stories."

People call our sparse disk image setup a hack but it's a hack that's been pretty solid since we started working between multiple systems in August of last year. Now that we're 10Gbe it's even better.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Leo Hans
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 1:54:49 pm

Well, I think it depends of the kind of work you are doing.

For instance, for my last work I had 16 hours of media from Alexa + Canon + Blackmagic media and I had to use FCP7. (I have worked with FCPX in other projects too)

As usual, the timing was so tight that I had to have my first cut on the second day, so I spent the first one making a sort of quick selections. This project was special because there was lots of shots using amateur sport teams, so I had to search all the footage looking for that small parts that may work from long almost useless clips, as opposed to multiple shots of the same action.

One of the most important thing in Advertising is organization. You have to edit with the director and some agency creatives asking for different things, mostly at the same time, and everyone asking for his own favorite portions of the media. And there is when you miss FPCX when working with another NLE.

In the same clip, I can add keywords marking the parts every single member of the team asks for, even with overlapping parts of the shots. Then, you can recall that selection immediately if you have a Smart Collection for each one, or just using the search box. That would not work the same using bins and subclips.

Even more. I had commercials planned for several countries, so different language was involved for every scene with dialogue. Then, you need to have selections with a particular language, but the reactions can be the same, so if you have a timeline or a bin with "french" dialogue, you are not accessing to those reactions but when shooting french, so if the best reaction is in another group of shots you have to look at several selections. And what if you need to look just at good reactions and forget about the dialog parts? Then key wording and skimming are magical.

In the timeline the speed depends of what you are doing. Primary storyline is faster than any NLE, but sometimes you have to edit stacked clips and you can't do it at once but trimming one clip at a time. I am not too fan of compounds since you have to be careful of modifying one that is used in a previous version of the edit. Since you never know when someone is going to recall a previous cut, I duplicate the sequence (Project) before every mayor change.

About trackless and timeline organization, I hope Apple soon adds the option to "magnetic-sort" clips based on role+source clip name. That way, all the clips that are the same role are kept together like using separators with that disabled clips workaround. Hopefully, they event allow colorizing clips based on that.

The ability to work with original media or proxies at the same time makes really easy to have the project in my notebook with proxies and to use original media when connected to a big display. That is invaluable.

Color correction and filters in realtime is really helpful too.

When it come the time for export the edit for everyone involved, I is fast and combined with motion is really customizable.

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro (7+X)
http://www.leohans.com


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tony west
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 4:41:48 pm

[Leo Hans] "This project was special because there was lots of shots using amateur sport teams, so I had to search all the footage looking for that small parts that may work from long almost useless clips, as opposed to multiple shots of the same action."

Let me build upon this and give you my dream workflow.

I do lot of work for FOX, ESPN and the rest and this is my opinion of how the workflow could go.

I say "could" because they have invested in AVID and it's not going to happen anytime soon.
They are missing the X boat IMHO


If you are shooting say, a Football game, nobody knows more about the footage at that point than the shooter. They shot it.

The producer is sitting up in the press box while you are running around on the field.

At the end, the shooter creates their own Event with favorites with their footage.

Then the shooter hands that event to the producer who farther refines the event with their favorites.

Finally the producer gives that Event to the editor. All tagged and ready to go.

A great deal of the work has been done before it reaches the edit bay, making the edit faster because there is less to do.


You would have to pay shooters for that extra work but they hope that shooters delete shots in-camera before they hand off the raw anyway and when they stay to do that they charge.

Less work for the editor.

Less work for the producer. (they don't want to search through all that raw footage)

More work for the shooter but they would get paid extra to do it. Heck I'd take that extra money for sitting there and tagging : )

Here is why it would work in a practical since.

X is affordable and many shooters already have it on their computers.
It's also user friendly for shooters that have not done much editing in the past.

It's fast and simple and I don't think shooters would mind doing it if the price was right.

This post may not sway many because it is theory. We don't actually do this. We use AVID and producers log through miles of P2 footage with a million incomplete passes.

All the same, I'd be happy to hear why this wouldn't work or not be a better use of our time.

PS

This could also work outside of sports : )


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 9:11:58 pm

Tony,

Your solution could work brilliantly - but it's going to be hard to get anyone upstream to buy into it until they understand X.

Here's why. Very few people outside those of us who use it understand the metadata handling in X.

They won't naturally "get" that in your scenario, ALL the original footage remains available at all the stages of the edit. And that using keyword tags (or simply Reject/Favorite) it's possible for the initial editor/screener to bucket what he or she thinks is the "best" stuff - while STILL allowing subsequent footage reviewers including the final editor to easily skim through not just the "selects" done by everyone from the original shooter to the producer - but groups of selects from other stakeholders - so damn easily.

They'll likely take the positon that "Hey, *I* need to be able to "see" everything - cuz I'm the only person who can know what should be in the final selects bucket.

They simply won't get that things have changed. And that there doesn't have to be ONE selects bucket anymore. And more critically - that ALL the raw footage can always be just a nearly instant Crontrol-C away.

Remember people who don't use it - just dont' understand it at this point. So they often just don't realize just how easy it is to do what you're suggesting. Particularly that granting "review" rights to one person at one point in the process - does NOTHING to preclude others from attacking an issue like "what's are the best shots" in a different context or fashion.

In time, with the tool out there and trust relationships being built between the shooter/X editor and the team back in edit, efficiency will likely skyrocket.

But not at first. Because people will think they're giving up control.
And we all know how easy it is to get people to do that!

Really, if the back end folks ever started to see that pre-keywording in X in the field as what it is - hyper-efficient, hyper powerful form of field shooting notes - they'd BEG shooters to do this. On EVERY shoot. And probably include a field camera op kit with a fully charged 13" MBP running X!

Just my 2 cents.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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tony west
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 4:07:34 pm

[Bill Davis] "They won't naturally "get" that in your scenario, ALL the original footage remains available at all the stages of the edit. "

Agreed Bill, I would have to come in there and give a straight up demo and make that very clear.


I enjoyed your webcast the other evening btw


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 5:58:19 pm

[tony west] "I enjoyed your webcast the other evening btw"

Thanks!

The overall webcast was WAY too slow. I'm gonna re-think the format.

Were you one of our 5 NYC viewers? It's weird to see where people tune in from. We also had 2 outliers in Ohio and I have NO clue how they found out about it.

Very strange thing to try and understand - this internet world!

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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tony west
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 6:13:32 pm

[Bill Davis] "Were you one of our 5 NYC viewers?"

No, I live in St. Louis


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 8:34:18 pm

aha! You're the Missouri hits.

My web folks sent this report and even mentioned you! Well, not YOU you. But the Missouri show up. Out of idle curiosity did you watch, dive out and watch again? just wondering if that's what caused the 2 count or if there was actually someone else in Missouri who watched it.

Like I said, this webcasting thing is a whole new world.

Also wondering if the quality was OK and if the screen shots were readable?



Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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tony west
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 2, 2013 at 10:19:24 pm

That's the first thing I wondered when I saw that 2

Was there someone else besides me? in the Lou

I had to do some stuff during part of it but I think I left it running in the background.
Sorry I can't say for sure.

Audio on the questions was a little rough early on but that's always a challenge. Unless there is a person standing there aiming a boom mic at folks which most time it's not really practical budget wise.


I could see the screens pretty well though.

Will you be doing another one anytime soon?


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 4:09:53 am

[tony west] "Will you be doing another one anytime soon?"

Most likely next month, again. The Tricaster owner who knows the internet interface part is up for it.

I think I'm going to do it out of my own studio next time so I have a little more control of the set and lighting and forgo the audience thing.

The challenge is that I deeply, desperately do NOT want to turn this into the "me" show - the problem is that good presenters who know X and are local here are few and far between. I've considered trying to Skype in some of the people I know in the wider X community - but that adds another whole level of technical complexity and would still put me in a "by myself on camera in the studio" and I know "I" wouldn't watch that long before I got bored to death. I'm working on that - so we'll see.

Really, the biggest part is that I just can't afford to put so much time into this that I'm hurting my business by prepping large lessons every month. It's too much effort unless I can find other, hopefully better!, presenters to share the load.

We did pretty well, I thought on the technical web delivery stuff. Now I just have to get to the point where I can make a presentation that's consistently worth watching. And that, as I was reminded on this first modest attempt - is no small task!

Stay tuned?

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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tony west
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 3, 2013 at 4:31:14 pm

[Bill Davis] "Really, the biggest part is that I just can't afford to put so much time into this that I'm hurting my business by prepping large lessons every month."

Yep.


I can see how it could be really time consuming. Challenges of finding presenters and trying to hook up with their schedules would be a challenge in itself.


All in all it was something decent to build on and I will look forward to seeing it develop.


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Michael Sanders
Re: FCPX Speed and workflow increases ? Real World examples?
on Aug 1, 2013 at 3:33:36 pm

Yesterday/today I cut a five min talking head corporate complete with complex chromakey, motion graphics, b-roll drop in's etc.

It's the same piece I've done for about four years three times a year. As of last Jan I've done it solely in X and we are doing it quicker and quicker every time because of the way X works. Having the power of a new MBP tuned to X also helps.

We used to start four days before delivery, shooting in the AM. I would then go home and do a story edit with just the presenter without backgrounds, keys, graphics etc. Then spend the next few days keying etc - usually right up to the wire.

We are shooting two days before the deadline, editing on site. Yesterday we finished shooting at 12pm and by 5pm we showed the client pretty much the final piece with background keys, all the graphics and music.

Because of the wonderful way compound clips work as well I'm able to make two versions, one for internal and another for external. This time they just differ in the ending. I cut the bulk of it and then made that into a compound clip. I then cut the two endings in the event, created two projects, dropped on the main bit to each and then tagged on the appropriate endings. Then if there are any changes to the main bit I can edit them in the compound clip knowing the changes will appear in both projects.

This morning instead of tweaking key's etc I'm twiddling my thumbs waiting for the all clear to take the kids swimming.

I don't know if I could do this in Avid but I know I couldn't do this, at this speed, in 7.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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