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Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?

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Andy Field
Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 7:38:53 pm

Have tried to love AVID -- having come from FCP 7 background, it's not easy - still no searchable effects....jumping from mode to mode for fx feels clunky.....anyone seen or used 7? any improvements?


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Michael Hancock
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 7:49:05 pm

Just downloaded it. Will be testing it next week on a project (specifically to test the LUT and FrameFlex additions). Interested to see how well the background consolidating/transcoding/copying works, as well as the media managed AMA improvements.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Neil Goodman
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 8:18:13 pm

Im excited. Avid is my main NLE both at home and at work (although were still rocking 5.5 at work) Just waiting till the weekend to try it out. Not a huge rewrite or anything but some very welcome features, mainly REAL background transcode, not transcode that stops when you start to work ala FCPX. Cant wait to see that work in the real world. Also the built in LUT and frame flex thats keyframeable is gonna be sweet.

FWIW, going into FX mode can be made with one key command (mine is shift-y) where in FCP 7 you have to double click and tab over.

Actually more steps the FCP 7 way.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 8:50:48 pm

I have my own love-hate feelings about any given NLE. While MC7 is far from revolutionary or innovative in today's post world, it does address many of the day-to-day needs editors have on real projects today. Like dealing with large-frame video for HD output. Sure, 4K output has some buzz, but it simply isn't a reality with most paying gigs. If you are talking about features, they are using advanced tools anyway, not desktop NLEs.

I started nonlinear with Avid in the early 90s, moved to FCP at 1.25 and have lived in a mixed-NLE world ever since. I find MC a bit clunky today compared to FCP "legacy" and I haven't completely warmed to X. Nevertheless, I have yet to find any other NLE that will stand up to the editorial punishment I can put MC through. Just this past week, I've been working a corporate gig that involved a show open. Flying photos over a background. The comp was 15 layers of DNxHD, largely running in real-time (yellow-green mode), which made it very easy to do the creative edit. You can't do that in After Effects and any other NLE would choke in my experience.

So I'm not sure MC will ever be something people will get excited about except those who regularly use it. Sure it's clunky at times. Modes - as fast as switching them is - are not to everyone's liking. Nevertheless, it's the reliable beast that lets you get work out the door.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 12:33:40 am

Yes! I'm looking forward to it. Audio improvements, especially. The mode to mode thing used to bug me, too; but when I got a little more simpatico with the software, it disappeared as an issue. You begin to understand that it is there so that you can operate more efficiently in the mode you happen to be in. It also has become so easy to cross between them, mouse-wise, that I don't think about it much.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 12:39:48 am

The easiest way to deal with modes and workspaces is simply map these to keyboard shortcuts. MC switches so quickly between them that it's inconsequential. In fact in my experience, MC jumps into the trim mode faster than FCP X takes to let you latch onto the edge of a clip to engage trimming.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 12:54:55 am

[Oliver Peters] "The easiest way to deal with modes and workspaces is simply map these to keyboard shortcuts. MC switches so quickly between them that it's inconsequential. In fact in my experience, MC jumps into the trim mode faster than FCP X takes to let you latch onto the edge of a clip to engage trimming.
"


Oh, yes. Agreed! Its one of the joys of Media Composer. I was just pointing out how easy the Smart Tools have become.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 6:02:08 pm

I'm very interested in the changes in MC 7 too. Both the little things (like a Master Fader in the audio mixer) and the bigger things (like background transcoding/consolidating). I've been so busy recently that I haven't had much time to really read up on all the changes.

W/regards to the Smart Tools, to me they still feel very clunky compared to performing similar actions in FCP's timeline. I'm hoping back and forth between Avid 6.5 and FCP 7 right now and while on FCP I keep performing my Avid keyboard command to switch modes and wondering why the cursor in FCP isn't changing. A split second later I realize what I'm doing and go, "Oh, that's right. In FCP you don't have to switch modes."

I've obviously committed my Avid 'switch mode' keys to muscle memory but it's still not as seamless as FCP's timeline.




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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jun 29, 2013 at 12:40:41 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "W/regards to the Smart Tools, to me they still feel very clunky compared to performing similar actions in FCP's timeline."

My solution to Smart Tool is to enable all of the tool functions. Have it normally off and map ST to a hot key, so you can turn it on when you need it. Also set your settings so that it disables when you click the TC ruler. This way, one click enables any of the functions and when you go to scrub the timeline, it automatically is disengaged. Then the operation feels more or less like clicking a tool key in FCP7.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jok Daniel
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jun 29, 2013 at 7:25:54 pm

[Oliver Peters] "My solution to Smart Tool is to enable all of the tool functions. Have it normally off and map ST to a hot key, so you can turn it on when you need it. Also set your settings so that it disables when you click the TC ruler. This way, one click enables any of the functions and when you go to scrub the timeline, it automatically is disengaged. Then the operation feels more or less like clicking a tool key in FCP7."

This is pretty much how I work too. I never understood why people make such a fuss about modes. What is the operational difference between modes and tools anyway? In FCP7 there's a gazillion single-purpose tools that you constantly need to switch between. Very annoying. With Avid's Smart Tool, switching between modes is pretty much transparent, and you get the benefit of a proper trim mode.


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Chris Conlee
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jun 30, 2013 at 11:38:54 pm

[Chris Harlan] " The mode to mode thing used to bug me, too; but when I got a little more simpatico with the software, it disappeared as an issue. You begin to understand that it is there so that you can operate more efficiently in the mode you happen to be in. It also has become so easy to cross between them, mouse-wise, that I don't think about it much."

Perhaps because I've used Media Composer from the beginning, I've never for the life of me understood what people are talking about when they mention these mythical "modes" that supposedly don't exist in other packages. I've asked, and nobody can explain it to me either.

MC is my tool of choice, and to the OP, yes, I'm very excited by MC7. Background render and waveform cache alone made it a must-buy for me. But lately I've been doing a lot of feature work in FCP 7, and while I've grown accustomed to it (this is my 4th feature edit for a company whose workflow revolves around it), and actually like it for some things, I still have to go into a "mode" to edit effects in it too. What am I missing here, folks? Whether I have to click a tab (FCP) or press a key (MD) to open the effect editor, to me doesn't make a difference. Both still effect editing modes.

Confounded.

Chris


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Chris Harlan
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jul 1, 2013 at 12:08:38 am

Hey Chris!

I think where most people who come from FCP get caught up on modes is while trimming. In FCP, many folk tend to trim on the timeline via mouse, almost never opening up FCP's trim window. Used this way, FCP does not distinguish between modes, ala trim and source/record. With this approach, people tend to blob things onto the timeline and then sculpt with trimming, and the context-sensative cursor is probably the best around. It becomes a seamless work area.

In a similar vein, I've seen a lot of people come from Avid to work on FCP, who add a lot of needless steps, like generating black/slug everywhere, or complain about FCP's substantially inferior trimming powers when they actually don't understand some of the more effective ways to trim. I do believe, btw, that MC offers much better trimming capabilities, just not "substantially" better. And that's the thing about FCP Legacy; it mimicked so many different NLEs that you could work with in the style you were accustomed to, without understanding that it represented a single approach. It was part Avid, Montage, D/Vision, Speed Razor, and could be operated from any of those disparate angles.


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Chris Conlee
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 out - anyone excited?
on Jul 1, 2013 at 12:19:51 am

I suppose so, but so rarely do I simply want to trim one side of a cut away from the seam, so I've locked R and RR into my mind to get me into a useful trim mode anyway.

I did program trim to tail and trim to head onto my FCP keyboard which is pretty much analogous to Avid's Top/Tail commands. That's pretty great.

I also programmed extend edit onto my FCP keyboard to emulate one of my favorite Avid shortcuts.

Coming from Avid I'm a keyboard guy; I prefer to press a key than wear my wrist out mousing around and pressing tools clear off to the side of my timeline. I guess what I'm saying is, I feel like I have to touch a key in either to get it into a mode I actually would USE, so I still don't see much difference.

And that's not in defense of either, as they seem pretty much identical once I have my keyboard shortcuts programmed. I can even make FCP trim pretty much like Avid. Although, as you mentioned, Avid does have a few particularly nice tricks up its sleeves (try option-clicking the trim tool after completing a complicated asyncronous trim sometime...)

Chris


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Charlie Austin
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 7:20:37 pm

So, I posted this on the Avid forum... no response, so I thought thought I'd try here on the "whatever you want to babble about" forum... Been running MC at home with local storage, but I want to mess with it at work now, so...

So... I've got FCP X, FCP 7, and Pr CC all running at work using shared media. Media is on plain old GB enet OS X server shared drives. Mount the drives, everyone works and is happy. Now i'd like to get MC to use the same media (I use MC at home but the media is locally connected) So uh... can i do this without jumping through hoops? I don't want to move or do anything to the shared media to break our workflow... TIA!

I've got a project imported as from an AAF, sequence opens fine but media is offline. Set the "alldrives" command in the console and the relink pane sees the drives, but it won't relink. I don't get the whole AMA thing, so maybe someone can step through it? Or will it not work with what I'm trying to do? And when I import a file it still wants to copy it to my local drive. I thought this wasn't necessary anymore...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Dan Stewart
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 8:31:14 pm

Import as AMA. Shouldn't make a proxy. Dnx36 is pretty slick as a lightweight offline codec tho.. looking forward to having the system, program & 100 hours of rushes all on the new mac Pro flash memory. (If I can persuade anyone else here to buy one which isn't looking good)

My main issue with MC tho is playing nice with Resolve/Smoke.. and I know Avid aren't interested in making the competition more attractive. I play with the grade in 2 secs (yes BTW easy: F8 CC mode - bosh the curve - F6 SR mode - 5 secs tops)- if I'm bouncing to other progs its got to compete..

Starting to think the baselight plugin might be the way forward but haven't compared it to resolve yet - trackers and such and all the good shit its worth bouncing for..

To conclude - if I can bounce around easy I'm excited. If not I'm not - but I'll still use it.. Until the ONE RING appears..



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Charlie Austin
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 11:08:00 pm

[Dan Stewart] "Import as AMA. Shouldn't make a proxy. "

Yep, that works fine... the issue I'm having is... I've imported an AAF sequence from FCP 7. MC imports fine, and puts the master clips and sequence in my bin. Sequence/clips look to be all there but offline. I'd just like to relink it, to the existing shared media, but can't figure out how to make it work... It should work right?

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 11:12:31 pm

[Charlie Austin] " It should work right?"

Nope. Relinking with AMA is dicey at best. The AAF import is designed to have you import/ingest media, since it's a vestige of tape capture. Sometimes I've been able to import the clips as AMA clips and then link the other master clips from the AAF to the ones imported via AMA. There is an AMA relinking feature, so you might have success after RTFM, but I wouldn't hold my breath. ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 11:16:19 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Nope. Relinking with AMA is dicey at best. The AAF import is designed to have you import/ingest media, since it's a vestige of tape capture. Sometimes I've been able to import the clips as AMA clips and then link the other master clips from the AAF to the ones imported via AMA. There is an AMA relinking feature, so you might have success after RTFM, but I wouldn't hold my breath. ;-)"

That's what i was afraid of... I tried a batch import as well, but it won't see the shared drives, so I guess there's some AMA voodoo required there as well. And I have been attempting to decipher TFM regarding AMA relinking and it's um... confusing at best... Oh well. The more things change etc, etc.. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 11:19:35 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Oh well. The more things change etc, etc.. :-)"

Of course, in fairness, doing what you trying to do is impossible in X, too. Where do you think ProApps got the idea from? ;-)

Relinking? FCP 7 or PProCC.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 11:24:13 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Of course, in fairness, doing what you trying to do is impossible in X, too. Where do you think ProApps got the idea from? ;-)
"


True. But at least in X it's easy to figure out it's impossible. ;-) I've always felt X was sort of a hybrid of the best, and worst, of FCP 7 and MC. Fun times!

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 29, 2013 at 1:11:34 am

[Charlie Austin] " I've always felt X was sort of a hybrid of the best, and worst, of FCP 7 and MC. Fun times!"

Agreed. I'm still pining for at least the option of tracks. ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 29, 2013 at 1:17:25 am

[Oliver Peters] "Agreed. I'm still pining for at least the option of tracks. ;-)"

lol Well, I'm pretty sure Apple has timeline role visual organization on their radar, which is really the only thing I miss about tracks. Never was a big fan of throwing virtual faders around. We shall see...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 29, 2013 at 2:49:23 am

[Charlie Austin] " Well, I'm pretty sure Apple has timeline role visual organization on their radar, which is really the only thing I miss about tracks."

I'd actually be quite happy with multiple "tracks"/"layers" that all functioned as primary storylines with common attributes. Connected clips could still be there as an option.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Neil Goodman
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 11:23:07 pm

Just installed a couple hours ago. So far so good. The new features are working as advertised, background process are sweet. Seems just as snappy and stable as the newly released 6.5.3 and all my old projects are opening fine, playback etc. For a .0 release im pretty impressed. Cant wait to really put it thru the paces but first impressions are good!

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 29, 2013 at 1:07:53 am

Seems a bit more unstable with some of the 3rd party plug-ins, like DFT FilmStocks. That one completely crashed it. The new BCC 8.2 AVX is very nice though, with more RT effects. For now, I would recommend limiting your third party plug-ins to Boris until everyone else gets some updates out for MC7

Still a problem where it takes FOREVER to launch as it sits on "Initializing AMA Volume Manager". I guess the workaround is still to disconnect any networking during launch. Arghh!!

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 29, 2013 at 6:47:20 am

I'm bummed because I have no upgrade yet. Something clunky in the Avid online store. Or I was clunky. That can happen, too. Hopefully someone there will answer my email this weekend, and I'll get to play with it some.


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Neil Goodman
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 29, 2013 at 6:31:07 pm

You should email marianna, Shell sort you out pronto.


I waas waiting on 5 licenses that didnt show up till late yesterday afternoon.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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Chris Conlee
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 30, 2013 at 11:49:36 pm

Or just install as a trial until the licensing gets sorted out. That's what I did.

I finally got my email from them and it updated just fine.

Chris


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Chris Conlee
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jun 30, 2013 at 11:46:17 pm

You might, and I want to stress MIGHT have luck by AMA-ing all the clips into another bin. Select all the clips in the bin, then leave that bin open. Open your sequence bin. Select the sequence and try to relink AMA clips with the "Relink to Selected clips in open bins" option. This might relink your files for you.

Good luck. As has been mentioned, relinking AMA is a dicey proposition at best.

Chris


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Charlie Austin
Re: Avid Media Composer 7 Question?
on Jul 1, 2013 at 12:25:43 am

[Chris Conlee] "Good luck. As has been mentioned, relinking AMA is a dicey proposition at best."

I'll give it a shot, thanks!

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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