FORUMS: list search recent posts

ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Dave Gage
ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 6:09:32 pm

I've done the requisite searches and have not seen one. I know Apple makes a ThunderBolt to FireWire 800 cable for about $30, but that's not what I need. I have an early 2011 MBP i7 Quad and the eSata via the Expresscard slot never worked well (switched out cables and cards numerous times), and it didn't come with USB 3. I edit from a 2nd internal drive, but I would just like to speed up large video file transfers for backup between external drives.

I like to use the bare drive docks (i.e. the OWC Voyager). The fastest connection available for these today at OWC is USB 3, which if I had the TB to USB 3 cable and two drive docks would work nicely for me. Ideally, they will soon come out with a TB version for those of use with MBPs without USB 3, but who knows when/if that will be available.

Thanks,
Dave


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 6:28:44 pm

Not a cable, but it's a TBolt dock with ports: http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F4U055


Return to posts index

Dave Gage
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 6:41:51 pm

Jeremy,

Ouch! Take a digital off and it's in my price range. I'm hoping for a $30 or under cable solution and I may have to wait a while for it. If my Expresscard slot is actually fine and the problem lies with the eSata connector on my OWC 2-drive RAID enclosure, then this might work for me-
http://eshop.macsales.com/search/expresscard+to+usb+3

I think my new goal here is to get away from external enclosures altogether and since I can get 2TB drives at a good price now, I can just use two separate USB 3 drive docks to accomplish what I want with backups. Could be me, but it seems every external enclosure I've ever gotten (mostly from OWC) ends up having at least one port go bad on it. I think this is what just happened with my 2-drive RAID enclosure (which was my main edit drive until recently). It appears that the eSata connection is bad, but the FW800 works fine, it's just slow for 300 GB transfers. I just plugged in a drive dock with eSata and the same Expresscard and it came right up on the desk top. Must be the RAID and not the card slot.

Thanks,
Dave


Return to posts index


Marcus Moore
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 7:23:57 pm

Can it be done in just a cable?

Or are there protocol issues... which is why it has to be done thru a box?



Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 7:28:25 pm

[Marcus Moore] "Can it be done in just a cable?

Or are there protocol issues... which is why it has to be done thru a box?"


There's ethernet and fw TBolt cables, I don't see why there couldn't be USB3 cables.

I think there aren't any because they'd be expensive, and USB3 is usually already part of a Thunderbolt computer, that is to say, I'm not sure if they'd sell enough of them to make it worth it.


Return to posts index

Dave Gage
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 8:12:31 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I think there aren't any because they'd be expensive, and USB3 is usually already part of a Thunderbolt computer, that is to say, I'm not sure if they'd sell enough of them to make it worth it."

Yep, that's my thought too. I believe this situation primarily just effects us 2011 owners. I think the 2012 and up have both TB and USB 3.

Dave


Return to posts index


Andrew Richards
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 12:43:14 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "There's ethernet and fw TBolt cables, I don't see why there couldn't be USB3 cables."

They'd need to cram a full USB 3 controller into the end of it. The Thunderbolt gigabit Ethernet adapter has a Broadcom PCIe NIC tucked inside the plastic shell. The FW800 adapter has an LSI controller inside. And that's just the one end. Both have an Intel Port Ridge Thunderbolt controller inside the other end. Pretty amazing.

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 12:51:26 am

Miniaturization at its finest!


Return to posts index

Andrew Richards
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 12:57:38 am

My favorite is the Lightning AV adapter. It has double the RAM of the original iPhone!

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index


Dave Gage
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 3:05:30 am

[Andrew Richards] "
They'd need to cram a full USB 3 controller into the end of it."


...so, you're saying it would be possible or that there's too much USB Controller stuff to make it work.

Dave


Return to posts index

Andrew Richards
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 12:39:53 pm

[Dave Gage] "...so, you're saying it would be possible or that there's too much USB Controller stuff to make it work."

I don't know how small USB 3 controllers can get these days, but sure it's possible. However, like you noted elsewhere in the thread, the only Macs that would benefit from it are the 2011s, so it is pretty unlikely Apple'd go to the trouble since the market for it would be so narrow.

Best,
Andy


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 7:48:20 pm

Dave, there is an ExpressCard solution for USB3 that is $20 and works under Mountain Lion with no drivers necessary.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350600627667?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984...


Return to posts index


Dave Gage
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 8:16:39 pm

Gary,

Cool, thanks. I'll book mark it as an option. If I go the route of using the ExpressCard slot to connect USB 3, I'll try to get the best card I can afford. I've had problems with cheaper cards in the past, especially with popping out when you least expect it.

Thanks,
Dave


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 6:43:19 pm

Jeremy -

Have you used the Belkin? It's an interesting little piece of gear I've had my eye on. Would love a real world review.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 7:01:18 pm

[Michael Hancock] "Have you used the Belkin? It's an interesting little piece of gear I've had my eye on. Would love a real world review."

I have not, unfortunately.

I was semi-dissapointed when they took the eSata connection off of the Belkin, but I'm sure they had a good reason to do so. Still, with the multiple USB3, audio, and especially the ethernet port, I'm sure the Belkin will do just fine.


Return to posts index


Michael Hancock
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 26, 2013 at 7:05:28 pm

It definitely looks promising, and the price doesn't seem too bad either. If you get your hands on one, please do a review.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index

Andy Neil
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 3:21:55 pm

David, question about your eSATA problems. What are your issues exactly? I know you're using a MBP, but I had issues with eSATA off my PCI slot in my tower. Lots of times with more than one card, I had issues where eSATA drives just weren't mounting or being recognized.

But then I discovered that the driver was the issue. Even though it was a driver from the same company as the card, it was causing issues because it was a poorly written driver. I looked around online and found that I could use the Sonnet driver for my non-sonnet card. And with that, plus OS 10.8, I've finally got a stable eSATA situation.

Perhaps something similar could help you?

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index

Stephen Hill
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 9:50:19 pm

eSATA via the express card slot on my 17" MBP has always been very iffy. I'll follow you advice Andy and see if I can find more stability with the sonnet driver.


Return to posts index


Jeremy Garchow
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 27, 2013 at 11:17:15 pm

You should get the Sonnet Pro card. It's worth every penny and the drivers come free. ;)


Return to posts index

Jason Jenkins
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 2:38:28 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "You should get the Sonnet Pro card. It's worth every penny and the drivers come free. ;)"

Yep. I spent the money and got this one. The first one was DOA, but the replacement has been rock solid with anything I've plugged in to it.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 2:41:40 am

We have a few of the older Pro version (3Gb) and they have been all good for years now.


Return to posts index

Dave Gage
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 1:20:27 am

[Stephen Hill] "eSATA via the express card slot on my 17" MBP has always been very iffy."

Yep, where I've been since day 1 with eSata via the ExpressCard Slot. I will likely move on from eSata because I've spent so much time with it with little success and I now edit directly on an internal drive I added as a replacement for the optical drive. It works great and my only use for eSata now is to speed up backups, but it's pretty much a non-issue at this point. But, I would like to know your experience with the Sonnet driver.

Thanks,
Dave


Return to posts index

Dave Gage
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 3:41:21 am

[Andy Neil] "David, question about your eSATA problems. What are your issues exactly?"

Andy,

As I just said in another reply, I will likely move on from eSata because I've spent so much time with it with little success and I now edit directly on an internal drive I added as a replacement for the optical drive. It works great and my only use for eSata now is to speed up backups, but it's pretty much a non-issue at this point.

My experience has been that despite what Apple and vendors like OWC say, eSata via the ExpressCard slot is not "hot-swappable". I learned this from experience and then spoke with a senior engineer with the Disk Warrior people and he said they treat it like SCSI. I've found that when it's working for me, I must re-boot after using the eSata card or sometime within 24 hours the computer will crash randomly.

But, as I said, for me, this is all moot. I'm using FW800 for backup and a new Seagate 7200rpm Hybrid drive for editing that I added when I removed the optical drive. The internal drive is just as fast as my 2-drive RAID 0 enclosure when connected via eSata and the ExpressCard slot in "feel" and through benchmarks.
--

After 25 years of never losing one single bit of data, I had a Carbon Copy Cloner accident (completely my fault), and wrote over about 8 years of video files, mostly family video. Being way to clever for my own good, I immediately backed up the changes to it's backup drive. Fortunately, I bought "Data Rescue 3" from Amazon a few days later and it appears I recovered all the files back. After "Disk Warrior", DR3 is now my second favorite piece of software.

I've mostly just been using FW800 for external backups and it's been fine. But, to run the recovery software on the 2 TB RAID via FW800 would have taken 25 hours. When I connected the RAID via the eSata it said 10 hours which I could live with, but of course the eSata was not rock solid which made me think after this incident I would try to move over to the ThunderBolt port and a TB or USB 3 drive dock. Well, that's not really going to work either, so I'll just stick with FW800 until I truly need more external connection speed.

If I do need to go back to eSata, I will take yours and Jeremy's advice and try the Sonnet Pro card and proprietary drivers.

Thanks,
Dave


Return to posts index

Stephen Hill
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 8:54:07 am

Dave, sorry to branch off your original question but I am interested to know. Did you replace your OS drive with an SSD and then move your original HDD to an optibay? This is what I am planning to do as my 17" MBP could do with a new lease of life. I have successfully tweaked premiere pro to accept my 330M as MPE device so its already running loads better.


Return to posts index

Dave Gage
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 6:32:36 pm

[Stephen Hill] "Did you replace your OS drive with an SSD and then move your original HDD to an optibay?"

Stephen,

I posted this elsewhere a while back, but here's the original post (with some benchmarks)-
http://www.fcp.co/forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-fcpx/15934-experiences-benchmarks...

Here's a quote from it:
"I move around a lot and being able to edit anywhere at any time on my 2011 MBP i7 17" is a huge advantage for me. Because of this I decided to look at the option of removing my Optical Drive and putting in an OWC Data Doubler so that I have a 2nd drive for media always with me (and then I don't have to drag around an external RAID). SSDs are still too pricey for the amount of GBs you get, so I bought the Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid 750GB HDD. I first tested it with FCP X in an external drive dock connected via a 3GB eSata ExpressCard. The editing experience with FCP X felt fine. In fact, it didn't feel much different than with my 2-drive RAID 1 setup."

I ended up taking out the Optical Drive and putting my original Apple boot drive (750GB 5400 Drive) in it's place. I then put the Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid 750GB HDD in the hard drive slot which is now my edit drive.

To get the full 6GBs connection speeds internally, you will need to make sure you've made this firmware upgrade-
http://blog.macsales.com/11895-2011-macbook-pro-sata-problems-resolved
--

Some Benchmarks:

Seagate Hybrid 750GB internal slot- 6GB connection (Quick Bench "Large file Test"):
[With the "Allow Cache Effects" checked (5ms): Write-270 MB/s, Read- 134 MB/s.]

Internal 5400 Drive original main drive slot: Write- 57 MB/s, Read- 57 MB/s

Internal 5400 Drive (optical drive slot 12/23/12 after firmware upgrade):
[With the "Allow Cache Effects" checked (5ms): Write-90 MB/s, Read- 90 MB/s.]

...I then checked out the difference between the changing my external RAID from a "1" to a "0":

eSATA OWC Elite-AL Pro 2-Drive RAID 1 3/4 full (Quick Bench "Large file Test" from SpeedTools Utilities 12-24-12)
[With the "Allow Cache Effects" checked (5ms)- eSATA: Write- 97 MB/s, Read- 99 MB/s.].

eSATA OWC Elite-AL Pro 2-Drive RAID 1 EMPTY (Quick Bench "Large file Test" from SpeedTools Utilities 12-27-12):
[With the "Allow Cache Effects" checked (5ms)- eSATA: Write- 96 MB/s, Read- 155 MB/s.]

eSATA OWC Elite-AL Pro 2-Drive RAID 0 EMPTY (Quick Bench "Large file Test" from SpeedTools Utilities 12-27-12):
[With the "Allow Cache Effects" checked (5ms)- eSATA: Write- 96 MB/s, Read- 155 MB/s.]

eSATA OWC Elite-AL Pro 2-Drive RAID 0 1/4 FULL (Quick Bench "Large file Test" from SpeedTools Utilities 12-27-12):
[With the "Allow Cache Effects" checked (5ms)- eSATA: Write- 97 MB/s, Read- 156 MB/s]
--


One last hardware note, I am maxed out at 16GB of RAM, but when I went from 8 to 16GB, I didn't notice much difference. On the other hand, my job workflow doesn't really push the limits of the software or the hardware.

I've got to run, but let me know if you have any other questions. By the way, I'm broke now and frankly satisfied with the way system my runs, but at some time in the future, I will swap out both the boot drive and the edit drive to SSD. That should be fun and give this 2011 MBP a new lease on life.

Thanks,
Dave


Return to posts index

Stephen Hill
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 7:28:43 pm

Thanks. Will take a look at the link now. Whenever I have checked my MBP on the Crucial website it says the max RAM I can install is 8GB which is what I currently have. Seems I have pretty much the same model MBP as you so perhaps I can go up to 16GB. Personally I don't have to do location work that often but I want to see what performance I can get out of this system before upgrading to a rMBP. The big (and it literally is BIG!) issue is that this 17" MBP can't be feasibly used in a plane seat.


Return to posts index

Dave Gage
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jun 29, 2013 at 12:53:44 am

[Stephen Hill] "Seems I have pretty much the same model MBP as you so perhaps I can go up to 16GB."

For the last 5-10 years, I've been buying my RAM from OWC. Check to see if your model is on this list-
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Apple_MacBook_MacBook_Pro/Upgrade/DDR...

My model is the MacBookPro8,3. When I bought it the price was a bit better than now, but $160 for 16GB is still not too bad.

Dave


Return to posts index

Denis Milette
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jan 1, 2014 at 7:17:26 pm

I have no idea how relevant this topic still is (and I'm a first time poster too!) but for archival purposes, has anyone seen these:
http://www.kanexlive.com/article/thunderbolt-adapters

I have a 2011 15" MBP so no expantion card available... I'll be trying them out if/when they do come out.

Cheers


Return to posts index

Chris Ratledge
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jan 16, 2014 at 7:27:43 am

according to the reviews on Amazon, the Sonnet Expresscard USB3 adapter is extremely poor, many issues. No hot-swapping, bus-powered drive issues, card doesn't work in the thunderbolt > expresscard adapter that SONNET makes, random disconnects, fried drives, etc...

From the most detailed review I read:

"1. You have to download the Mac Driver from the Sonnet Website.

2. This SUPPORTS BUS POWERED HARD DRIVES - but you have to buy the optional USB-to-DC auxilliary power cable (available at OWC) and attach it to one of the MacBook Pros's USB Ports so you can get 500 mA power on ONE of the USB 3.0 Ports, not both. Thus only one hard drive can be bus powered. 500 mA is enough to power most drives and OWC's Mercury Elite-AL Pro enclosure.

3. The Mac OS X Driver has SERIOUS LIMITATIONS. It only supports USB 3.0 hard drives, Sonnet's media reader and Lexar's Compact Flash/SD reader. The PC Drivers works for any 3.0 peripheral.

4. The Mac OS X Driver DOES NOT SUPPORT USB 3.0 HUBS. They do not show up when plugged in. This means I can't buy 4-port powered USB 3.0 HUBs and run 4 or more external hard drives off of this USB 3.0 adapter. Since NO USB 3.0 external drives allow you to daisy-chain hard drives, this limitation is difficult to accept. It limits the adapter to two external hard drives (one bus powered if you also use up a USB 2.0 port).

5. Another serious limitation is that the driver doesn't support USB-connected external displays. Since USB 3.0 external displays for the Mac are coming soon and have much better performance than USB 2.0 external displays, this is a serious limitation for a future desired capability. Certainly, the 2012 MacBook Pro Retina Display with built-in USB 3.0 ports won't have this limitation.

6. Since the current driver does not support non-storage USB devices, this means USB 3.0 scanners won't be supported either. "


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 1:54:06 am

I forgot about this thread.

I finally ordered the Belkin as I finally have a Thunderbolt computer.

The price has come down if anyone is interested. It probably means they are going to release something else soon, but whatevs.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 2:00:43 am

I noticed the price drop, too. It was actually on Amazon's Deal Of The Day list at 3am the other morning.

Once you get it and have a chance to test it out, please post a review of it here. I'm about to request two of them for work.

Thanks.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 2:03:11 am

THere's a handful of docks out there these days, I was surprised at the options, and I am sure there will be more coming this year.

The Belkin seemed to the best designed (all ports on one side which suits where I am going to place it) and it still has fw800 which we still receive from time to time.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 2:06:05 am

I dig the Belkin design, and I have about 80+TB of hard drives that are firewire 800 that we pull material from all year long, so those ports are must haves for us. What Thunderbolt system did you get? Did you get one of the new Mac Pros?

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: ThunderBolt to USB 3 cable anywhere?
on Jan 17, 2014 at 2:10:16 am

[Michael Hancock] "Did you get one of the new Mac Pros?"

Not yet, but we are going to order pretty soon. The delivery time is till showing February.

I am sort of waiting for some more benchmarks. My gut says to go with the 12core, but I've heard the 8core will better for NLEs. What to do?

We have the retina MBPs for now and I love it. It makes me excited to try out the new MacPro.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]