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Jay Soriano
Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 20, 2013 at 7:05:46 pm

Didn't want to post this in the Premiere or Media Composer forums hoping to get an objective opinion from users here who are currently using Premiere and/or Media Composer...(regardless if it's a subscription service or not). More focused on the software's strengths and weaknesses...

For the Final Cut Pro 7 editor looking to transition to Premiere CC or Media Composer 7(or possibly both), what are the pros/cons, benefits of one over the other? Why would one go w/ Premiere over Media Composer and vice-versa? What type of projects would either be best suited for?

Thanks for your feedback.


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Neil Goodman
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 20, 2013 at 7:39:48 pm

Also Media Composer 7 isnt out yet. Sure itll be basically 6.5 with a added features but who knows how those new features will perform

That said, Avid is a tried and tested environment, proven in high end complicated and low end easy workflows all over the world. CC came out yesterday and CS 6 didnt quite infiltrate quite as deep as some might have hoped. Its out there, but not nearly in the scope of FCP 7 and Media Composer. If coming from FCP 7, Media Composer will have a learning curve. Not too steep but its there. CC might be a smoother transition in that sense. Also for now, you actually own Media Composer.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 20, 2013 at 10:40:36 pm

If you don't want to pay forever, go with MC. You already own it. Wait for Adobe to shake out. Stay away from their subscription model, Creative Cloud, in my not so humble opinion. Do you work with others? What do they use? That could also affect your decision. What codecs do you work in? That is another one. Whole forums are based on your question.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 4:06:42 am

Although I've used MC for years off and on I've never been a fan of it - yeah it's used and proven in lots of scenarios but if you're coming from FCP 7 Premiere CC is going to be a welcome relief. This silly hoopla over the Adobe subscription model is total crap perpetuated by a bunch of trolls who don't use the software anyway.

Yeah you can buy MC 7 now for $999 - that gets you around 2 years of the entire Adobe suite and who knows how many automatic updates. Avid will most likely have MS 7.5 announced by next NAB - you'll have to pay for that and about the time your $999 is used up Avid will most likely have MC 8 on the horizon. So there's really no savings in "owning" the software unless MC 7 is all you'll be needing for the next few years and you never use Photoshop or After Effects...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 11:10:46 am

A bunch of trolls, eh Lance? How broad minded of you,

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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Richert Goyette
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 2:58:13 pm

Actually, Lance, I feel some resentment at the label of "troll;" even if offered in jest. Some of us have valid concerns.

I have owned every version of PS, AI, AE (even the CoSA version) since they were introduced and was even an Adobe beta tester. In addition, I demonstrated one of the first versions of Premiere to the St. Louis Film and Video Society.

However, I will not buy into the subscription model. I used CC last year but, with the introduction of the software rental model, have cancelled it. I will stick with my perpetual license of CS6 and work to find alternative tools.

Rich



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Aro Korol
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jul 31, 2015 at 3:12:23 pm

You could not explained it better, Agree 100%
I never used Avid and it is overwhelmingly difficult to lear.


I used the FCP7 and now I am all Adobe, It is made for me. I love it!


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Chris Harlan
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 4:14:46 am

Hey Jay!

I'm a long-time FCP editor, and I've spent the last year on both Pr and MC. I like them both. Pr is an easier transition; you'll feel at home there in a couple of days, and once you navigate a few hidden gotchas (things you were able to do in FCP7, and thought you'd be able to do in Pr, but can't) it very smooth operation. I'm just starting to play with Pr CC and find fewer gotchas, and even more similarities to FCP7.

While I am just still playing with the new Pr, I would say it is very similar to Pr 6, but with many small improvements. The timeline is cleaner, the audio is better, CODEC support is the best out there, and just generally, operations have improved. I liked Pr 6 quite a bit, and this version is clearly superior. You'll have to decide for yourself whether the rental fee approach troubles you. Personally, I would prefer that it wasn't exclusively this way, but that is also not stopping me from using it.

I'm very much looking forward to the next version of Avid; there are not going to be huge changes, but those few that are coming are quite welcome, if somewhat overdue.

Side by side, and just dashing a few things off, I'd say this:

Avid is still the best cutter. I haven't spent quite enough time at Pr to see how closely its caught up, so I may amend this down the road, but what MC shines at is a million very effective ways to trim and cut. This is where the learning curve is coming from FCP, because the thought processes are not immediately obvious, nor are the key strokes, but once you get a feeling for it, your fingers will miss it--mine do, anyway--when you are cutting on something else. I also have to say that tackling the learning curve was worth it for me and has made me a stronger editor.

Premiere has better audio tools. Right now Premiere has the best audio interface around( except maybe Vegas, which I haven't looked at in a number of years.) You can do sub mixes, mix at a clip level, mix at a track level, use sends, and, in this version, ADD Mackie compatible controllers! Hooray for that! The next version of MC adds some nice mixing improvements, but it hasn't caught up.

Premiere is better with mixed or multi media. MC has gotten much better over the last couple of versions, and I'm hoping in this next one that AMA will be less of a token, but MC is really still about the notion of working in a single master format.

Pr is more configurable. Probably the the thing I like most about FCP 7 is how configurable the interface is--multiple timelines open, a bin here, a bin there, tabbed windows and sequences. Premiere is like that, and with its unique window docking, maybe more so.

So I like them both. Both fun, both good. And, I should add, that you can try both for free for 30 days. I'd wait a few weeks until MC7 is out, but if you are in a hurry, it won't be THAT different from 6.5, which is one of the charms/curses of MC.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 12:07:35 pm

A key difference is that the underlying PPro philosophy is to work with media in its native format. If you prefer to work with optimized/transcoded media, you generally cannot transcode media within PPro as part of the import. Instead you have to use Prelude or AME to transcode first, or you have to suffer through often long renders/exports at the end of the line. Browse the RED User forums and you'll see frequent complains about that. Native media is fine for most standard pro video formats, but not necessarily ideal with consumer media or high-compute advanced codecs like REDCODE.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 5:46:02 pm

[Oliver Peters] "nstead you have to use Prelude or AME to transcode first, or you have to suffer through often long renders/exports at the end of the line"

It's funny. I just think of Prelude as an extension of Premiere.


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David Cherniack
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 8:15:19 pm

[Oliver Peters] " you prefer to work with optimized/transcoded media, you generally cannot transcode media within PPro as part of the import. Instead you have to use Prelude or AME to transcode first, or you have to suffer through often long renders/exports at the end of the line"

Oliver, that's an inefficient way of working that's out of date with CC. With CC you can work smarter than transcoding everything. You can transcode parts of the timeline in a specific or targeted way to a mezzanine codec (Prores or DNxHD) with any intensive added effects and smart render on output, in theory outputting as fast as a files can copy.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 8:40:17 pm

[David Cherniack] "Oliver, that's an inefficient way of working that's out of date with CC. With CC you can work smarter than transcoding everything. You can transcode parts of the timeline in a specific or targeted way to a mezzanine codec (Prores or DNxHD) with any intensive added effects and smart render on output, in theory outputting as fast as a files can copy."

I completely disagree. I am simply not happy with the performance of native codecs, such as AVCHD, MP4, H264, REDCODE, etc. I've tried it and it simply doesn't offer the performance I need. In any case, for sake of this thread, the same capabilities exist in MC, PLUS the options to transcode on import or afterwards from the timeline.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Cherniack
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 8:48:01 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I completely disagree. I am simply not happy with the performance of native codecs, such as AVCHD, MP4, H264, REDCODE, etc. I've tried it and it simply doesn't offer the performance I need. In any case, for sake of this thread, the same capabilities exist in MC, PLUS the options to transcode on import or afterwards from the timeline."

By "performance of native codecs such as..." do you mean rendering time to a mezzanine codec or to a mastering codec on output?

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 22, 2013 at 2:12:19 am

[David Cherniack] "By "performance of native codecs such as..." do you mean rendering time to a mezzanine codec or to a mastering codec on output?"

No, I mean actual playback, scrubbing and editing in real-time while working with a camera-native codec.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Cherniack
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 22, 2013 at 4:17:23 am

That's far from my experience with CC. Are you actually running CC? If so with what hardware?

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 22, 2013 at 12:20:44 pm

So far my experiences have been with CS6 (installing CC this w/e). This has been with various 8 and 12-core Mac Pros with both ATI and NVIDIA cards.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Cherniack
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 22, 2013 at 12:54:38 pm

[Oliver Peters] "so far my experiences have been with CS6 (installing CC this w/e). This has been with various 8 and 12-core Mac Pros with both ATI and NVIDIA cards."

I think you'll find CC much improved for playback of most (maybe all) codecs on the Mac and mostly a delight overall. That seems to be the case over on the PrPro forum...slightly tinged by the new FCP refugees who haven't figured out where things are yet.

My personal feeling is that PrPro CC is by far the best release Adobe has done. They really stepped up to fill the holes in audio, mezanine codecs and re-linking...and made what seems like hundreds of other improvements. It's now a mature NLE. That may not be the case with FCPx for another few years. NLEs take time to develop, though I think Apple has done an impressive job in two years. Then again, they had to, or the egg on their face would have hardened into an embarrassment for all time.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jul 10, 2014 at 7:10:55 pm

Oliver,

To echo David's comment, my own personal testing and use of Premiere Pro CC vs. CS6 I noticed a considerable difference in performance of longGOP codecs such as avcHD and H.264 Canon material. I would characterize the difference in scrubbing (the hardest aspect of it) from 'below adequate' - CS6 to 'pretty decent' in CC versions.

When you consider how difficult and how temporally complex MPEG4 really is, I'm usually pretty impressed. Scrubbing = frame blending GOPs on the fly in faster than real-time

HTH,
Dennis


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 22, 2013 at 12:38:19 am

[David Cherniack] "that's an inefficient way of working that's out of date with CC."

maybe - and forking this a bit to a rant - but the idea that broad editing standard operation is going to involve CPU hammering of non optimised avchd codecs seems a bit off beam.

maybe better look at it like a political party slightly at the fringe that needed to produce a compelling pamphlet for its platform? A timeline to end all timelines? that puts an end to the stupidity of intermediate codecs? that's a really really good political platform for a party out of power.

still tho, you could argue that once that party got a living sniff of the centre electoral editing voter mass, due to actually getting the editor together - they pretty immediately struck the avid mxf deal, and fully optimised the pro res pipeline.

PPro is getting to be pretty class, and is by a margin easily the most interesting horse out there right now. They're piping LUT's back into the timeline and anywhere is having a seismic impact in London. The crude observation would be that Adobe are dumping valley sized resources into premiere like it is going out of style.

in scale terms - all they need to do now is throw a security bone to the bees?
You would nearly think that Adobe has forgotten that they have classically been pollinated by bees -as it were.
Adobe never struck IBM deals.

Adobe has classically relied upon the deep sub structure of, say, a natural creative hive of practitioners. It's highly consensual, there are six to ten million of us, and we have long standing emotional attachments.

But Adobe, one way or the other, are now involved in a financially motivated customer cull. At a very large scale.
the public 2015 numbers are what they are.

It will be very interesting to see how that works out for adobe in the midterm.

you can only kill so many bees?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 22, 2013 at 12:52:27 pm

"in scale terms - all they need to do now is throw a security bone to the bees?"

I don't think this is going to happen Aindreas, at least not now that I have been able to compare the CC hype with the bare reality.

I have been working with the trial versions of PhotoshopCC, AECC and PremiereCC for two days now. Just to see if we will stick to what we have (CS6.5) and gradually replace everything Adobe, or if it would be worth renting some CC versions after all. My conclusion: if this version of CC had been offered as a payed upgrade to CS6.5 I am sure we, and I think many others, would politely have skipped the offer. Just like many have skipped Adobe "upgrade" versions in the past years.

But I do fully understand now why Adobe has decided to impose a life-long paying update program on its user base. And honestly I cannot blame them: I don't think many people would have upgraded to this version anyway if they had the choice. Premiere CC has got some minor attention, but after all that's an app that definitely still needs a lot of improvement. Photoshop CC is not even worth considering from a video point of view and we have already started replacing AE by faster alternatives for our post workflow since last year. So for us (others may be in a different situation, which I do respect) it's simply not worth it.

To get back to the OPs question:

If your choice is really limited to these two NLEs I would give Avid a decent try. I have been a very happy Avid user from day one and if it hadn't been for their absolutely arrogant monopolistic price enforcement policy (now that does ring a bell, doesn't it) we would not have switched to FCP 8 years ago, like so many people have done. But as far as efficiency and reliability is concerned Avid is still much higher in my book than many others. The new Final Cut Pro is an exception to this, as this is quite a different approach to many existing NLE workflows and no-one knows how far it will evolve in the near future. So I'm giving it all the credit it deserves while we already happily use it full-time in our broadcast post workflow.

The next 6 months are going to be quite interesting. If you feel that your business will not go broke by waiting another couple of months I would just wait until the end of this year. By then we should get a much more objective picture of where everyone is heading.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 22, 2013 at 11:40:41 pm

[Ronny Courtens] " Premiere CC has got some minor attention, but after all that's an app that definitely still needs a lot of improvement."

Wow. We must be looking at very different versions of Premiere CC. Or, maybe, do very different things. The DNx support alone is worth an upgrade. As is the control surface support. As are the many improved editing functions.

You say "it definitely needs a lot of improvement." I don't think there is anything definite about that at all. I think its a mature, extremely well-thought out NLE. I'm glad that X is suitable for you for broadcast work; it still isn't there for me yet, but I hope that someday it will be. Parts of it look like a lot of fun. Right now, for what I do, both Avid and Premiere are far more useful, though.

Oh, and by the way, I don't know what you've been working with, but there is no CS 6.5. There is 5.5 and 6. I HAVE read that there is a cracked, pirated version of the software going around that has the number 6.5, though I don't know if that's true.


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 23, 2013 at 11:07:40 am

Hey Chris,

We indeed all have different requirements for our specific workflows. I understand that for you the DNx and control surface support are a big deal, while for me these are irrelevant. That's why in my replies I try to include the words "to us" as often as possible as I do respect that other people using different workflows might see things differently. I do think PP still needs a lot of work, which does not mean it isn't already a decent NLE as it is now. We use FCP10 on a daily basis for very demanding customers and lord knows this app still needs some improvements as well ((-:

I sometimes envy people who can use different NLEs in their workflow. In a post house like ours with many editors working together on fast turnaround projects we need to develop a seamless workflow based on very specific choices. So I have to go with my gut feeling, a lot of testing and some 37 years of experience to make those choices. Like you said: not all workflows are the same, so choices and opinions will always differ and no-one will be right or wrong in the end. As long as you make the right choices for your specific requirements all is well.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 23, 2013 at 6:56:08 pm

[Ronny Courtens] " I understand that for you the DNx and control surface support are a big deal, while for me these are irrelevant. "

I'm amazed that you can be working on broadcast materials and think of DNx as irrelevant. Here in LA it is, hands down, the most relevant CODEC out there.

[Ronny Courtens] "I sometimes envy people who can use different NLEs in their workflow. In a post house like ours with many editors working together on fast turnaround projects we need to develop a seamless workflow based on very specific choices. "

Again, here, every post house I've been associated with offers both Media Composer and FCP to their clients. Its been that way for about the last half dozen years, since FCP became industrially accepted. But you are speaking of teams of people in a way that makes me think that wherever you are defines a post house differently from how it is defined here. Here, a post house is a facility site that competes with similar sites to offer an array of post production services to both individual productions and entertainment conglomerates. The goal, for them would be to offer as many options as possible.

As for fast turn-around, and seamless workflow with "many editors working together" there is no question, in my mind, that that still belongs to Avid, with ISIS and Sphere. Of course, its relatively expensive, and its quite possible that eventually Anywhere may challenge that. I don't see FCP X developing anything in that direction, though possibly 3rd party folk will fill that out somehow.

As far as envy goes, its not really an option, here, as much as it is a requirement. I'm also still curious which version of Pr you were comparing CC to. Was it 5.5 or 6?


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 23, 2013 at 8:21:04 pm

I was comparing it with CS6.

Our shop in Brussels has been around for 50 years now, having started small as an audio post house for film. The one in Paris opened in 1987. In both we mainly work for national television, editing and finishing short to long form shows and documentaries.

Most of our clients have been with us for many years now as there is not really any fierce competition at our level, opposed to what you find in LA. Our clients always work with our own people. To most of them it does not matter what equipment we are using as long as the work gets done perfectly, in time and within budget. I think that's a healthy attitude and it's been woking really great for us ever since we started.

Since we went linear I have always opted for having the same NLE system in all our suites. Avid was perfect for a long time, until they got too greedy. When we transitioned from Avid to FCP we did use both for awhile, just like we kept using legacy FCP while we were testing out the new FCP workflow. As most of our editors haven been with us for a long time they can easily switch from one system to another without anyone ever noticing. It's only hard- and software after all. To me our people are far more important because they make the real difference, not the equipment.



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Oliver Peters
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 23, 2013 at 8:29:41 pm

FWIW - few of the broadcasters I deal with care about DNxHD. Many have standardized on ProRes (mastering) and H264 (deliverables to the server). Also variations of MPEG2.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 23, 2013 at 9:01:10 pm

[Oliver Peters] "FWIW - few of the broadcasters I deal with care about DNxHD. Many have standardized on ProRes (mastering) and H264 (deliverables to the server). Also variations of MPEG2.
"


For me, for delivery, it is generally either ProResHQ or DNx. That's also what I get as source material from the studios or networks that I'm dealing with. Here, it would be a bit of a detriment to try to get by on just one of those. When tape was seriously around, it wasn't really quite the same issue, because tape offered a solid no man's land between platforms, and the CODECs were so far apart that no one expected anything other than machine or tape conversion. In the last four years, or so, those walls have broken down quite a bit. So, for me, that Premiere can read and write both ProResHQ and DNx is just all-caps WOW. It is something that is probably quite necessary for it to make inroads into the studios, here, where Avid is still king, and also, is something that Apple couldn't or wouldn't do.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 23, 2013 at 8:42:08 pm

[Ronny Courtens] "Most of our clients have been with us for many years now as there is not really any fierce competition at our level, opposed to what you find in LA."

Ah. Got it.

[Ronny Courtens] "To most of them it does not matter what equipment we are using as long as the work gets done perfectly, in time and within budget."

That was becoming more the case here, largely because of FCP Legacy's influence, and I hope it continues. Avid's still on top though, followed by Legacy, which still gets an amazing amount of use for a tool 2 years EOLed. I was beginning to see a rapid Premiere pickup, but I'm not sure what the CC-only wildcard has done to that. It could quash it, but Anywhere and the metadata services that Adobe is offering might accelerate it as well. Plus, the idea of being able to expand and contract seats at will, as well as treating it all as a service could prove quite enticing to the powers that be. The coin's still way up in the air.


[Ronny Courtens] " It's only hard- and software after all. To me our people are far more important because they make the real difference, not the equipment."

No argument there. All we're really doing is discussing hammers, here.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 23, 2013 at 8:50:29 pm

[Chris Harlan] " followed by Legacy, which still gets an amazing amount of use for a tool 2 years EOLed."

That's the funny part. After 2 years of beating on X and having worked with Avid since the early 90s, I still prefer the way I edit in FCP 7, even though PrProCC is trying to come very close. Something about it just isn't quite there. The bottom line for me is that I feel like Apple did the best job of "nailing" timeline editing in FCP 7, except for MC's better trimming mode. Right now I'm left with not being completely satisfied with any of them any longer ;-)

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 23, 2013 at 9:12:10 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Chris Harlan] " followed by Legacy, which still gets an amazing amount of use for a tool 2 years EOLed."

That's the funny part. After 2 years of beating on X and having worked with Avid since the early 90s, I still prefer the way I edit in FCP 7, even though PrProCC is trying to come very close. Something about it just isn't quite there. The bottom line for me is that I feel like Apple did the best job of "nailing" timeline editing in FCP 7, except for MC's better trimming mode. Right now I'm left with not being completely satisfied with any of them any longer ;-)
"


For sure. I'm working on a Legacy project right now, and enjoying myself immensely. With the exception, of course, of out of memory messages. The thing that I love the most about it, as you pointed out in one of your fine articles, is the fluidity of the interface. Premiere is technically there, and yet I agree, it doesn't feel quite as easeful an approach. I truthfully don't know if its because I'm not used to it yet, or if there is actually something a bit cleaner about the FCP design. I am happy that somebody thinks its important to do that, though, and maybe when I start to take that Adobe window-docking procedure as second nature, I'll be completely on board.


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David Cherniack
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jun 22, 2013 at 1:18:58 pm

Aindreas, leaving aside the financial viability to Adobe (as who knows what their figures really tell them), and leaving aside the many users who are unhappy with the way the model has been formulated so far (though I think their argument is more ideological than practical), I think the benefits will only become clear in the next year. The programmers that I've heard opine seem very happy not having to work to update cycles and if Adobe can roll out many major new features well before next June it will certainly be worth it to those subscribing. They'll have the benefit of their use months earlier than would be the case in the normal upgrade cycle. If not, the whole edifice will be a bust and a PR hit to boot. In others words, like most things, time will tell.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Les Fitzpatrick
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jan 8, 2014 at 8:18:10 pm

Brilliant.


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Jay Soriano
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jul 11, 2013 at 4:07:38 am

Thank you all for your feedback! I have a Creative Cloud subscription until November and its been smooth transition for a FCP 7 Editor. Especially like the updates from today. At the same time, I'm about to start my 30 day trial of Media Composer 7 and been checking out Kevin McAuliffe's 80+ tutorials on Media Composer ahead of time. Figure, living in Los Angeles, Media Composer is almost essential to know. From a personal editing standpoint, the benefit I see from FCP Legacy EOL is it has opened up my mind to learning other tools and being versatile storyteller....though not as efficient until I familiarize myself and learn the workflow and snags of other NLE...and I'm ok w/ that because if I wasn't passionate in being a digital storyteller then I'm in the wrong business. ;)


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Chris Conlee
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jul 1, 2013 at 12:10:11 am

To be fair, I haven't played much with PP CC (although I am currently a subscriber), but I spent a considerable amount of time with CS6 and I liked it immensely.

I'm an Avid guy thru and thru, but I was to cut a VFX heavy RED movie of the week for Syfy a year ago and I briefly toyed with the idea of cutting it natively in PP CS6. The performance seemed to be there and I actually liked some of the features of it. But the deeper I got into it the more I realized it wasn't quite ready for prime time.

For instance, it was a double-system show, meaning all the audio had to be synced. This wasn't an issue. But, at least at the time, PP didn't have a means of exporting AAFs from post-synced audio. Instant deal killer. No means of making deliveries on the back end. I've since heard that some users came up with a work around by sending the audio to Audition and then exporting it from there. Not sure if that's still a necessity or not?

But in addition to that, there was no way to match back to post-synced audio, for instance. This was a problem because I had a scene where a character was playing piano in a lounge. I cut the piano track on V1 and A1, then started inserting cutaways into the shot. But as it got more complicated, and we made some music edits to the cue, there was no way for me to match back to my synced picture from the piano cue I was using as a reference.

It's just things like that which made me realize Avid is king of the hill, at least in the broadcast and feature world, for a reason. Pretty much all of those types of contingencies have been thought of and accounted for. Is it exciting? Not really. But damn if there's something you want to do and can't find a way to do it. It's just that deep after 20+ years of doing what it does.

If you want to get into network television or major features, I'd recommend learning Media Composer.

Chris


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Sergio Sanchez
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jan 11, 2014 at 8:36:29 pm

I don´t understand what you mean when saying PP didn´t have way of exporting AAF's with synced audio. I´ve done it many times since CS5


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Chris Conlee
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jan 12, 2014 at 1:52:34 am

Sergio,

Did you sync double-system sound with your picture? And then you were able to export an AAF straight from CS5.5? If so, I'd like to know how you did it, because the Adobe people themselves told me it couldn't be done (at the time). I'm not sure if it's since been fixed or not.

Chris Conlee


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Nancy L. Smith
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jul 10, 2014 at 1:49:52 pm

I wish you guys would pick this conversation back up with the roll out of MC V8 on subscription and PP CC. I am a college instructor, making the decision soon about what to teach in our Post Production 2,3, and 4 classes. I also have both MC8 and PP-CC on a new IMac and I am cutting a documentary with majority archival tape footage. The project was built in AVID but it is just started and I can switch to Premiere easily. I have cut half hour shows on FCP, half hour shows on MC a long time ago, and many shorter videos in Premiere all the way back to 6.5.
I felt sure we as a college had to go to AVID. We are a ProTools certified site because of our Audio Production program. We are a two year school, starting a Digital Cinema program and I want to give students the best tools going out the door. I will also teach After Effects, Cinema 4D and a little Maya in Post Production 3 and 4.
My experiences with this documentary make me doubt our need for Media Composer. Before starting this project, I made myself go all the way through the Lynda tutorials so I would remember MC fully. But it is just not intuitive. I am a left hand shortcut user but Premiere is just faster. No, Premiere hasn't been nearly as solid as FCP because I taught it daily for 7 years at the same time I was cutting half hour shows at night on FCP 7. Premiere was constantly crashing on my high school students and FCP never did.
But now, with MC and PP running at the same time on my IMac, Premiere wins for ease of use. If there isn't something I am missing about output, encoding, codecs... I may cut this hour show on Premiere and not feel like I need to get my college students certified in MC.

Nancy L. Smith
President
Sutton Bay Media Company


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Oliver Peters
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jul 10, 2014 at 5:48:46 pm

[Nancy L. Smith] "I wish you guys would pick this conversation back up with the roll out of MC V8 on subscription and PP CC"

I think it really depends on the goals. If you are teaching students with the idea of getting work in the film/TV/video industries or TV station news departments in major metro areas - especially Washington, Boston, NY, Chicago, LA - then they should know MC. If the goal is general knowledge and eventual work in a wide range of corporate and commercial environments, then they will most likely encounter Premiere Pro far more than Avid.

Ideally they should know both - with Resolve and FCP X tossed in there, too. Ultimately, it gets down to whether you are teaching specific, job-oriented software skills - or general concepts of editing.

As far as specifics, the biggest operational hurdle with Premiere Pro - that doesn't seem to have been completely licked yet - is issues with large projects, particularly relinking. Some folks have good experiences and others seem to suffer. That's definitely a real strength of Avid and MC. I've also run into issues with some camera formats that use spanned media, where the order of clips within the spanned file is wrong upon import into Premiere Pro.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jul 10, 2014 at 7:22:35 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "To echo David's comment, my own personal testing and use of Premiere Pro CC vs. CS6 I noticed a considerable difference in performance "

Yes, that post was from awhile ago - as in last year. I've been on CC and CC2014 for quite some time now. Although Premiere Pro CC and CC2014 do very well in the mixed codec department, I tend to be largely against the idea of native codecs and prefer to work with common intermediate codecs. Premiere does far better if all the media is ProRes or AVC-Intra, than a mishmash of every camera codec known to man ;-) Not to mention, unique file names, reel IDs and valid timecode!

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Conlee
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jul 10, 2014 at 7:35:17 pm

Olive's spot on. If your students hope for work in the network episodic field or major Hollywood style feature films, the MC is the way to go as it's still dominant. Otherwise he's exactly correct, PP will do everything they need and they'll be well served by knowing it.

Chris


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Les Fitzpatrick
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jul 10, 2014 at 7:46:31 pm

I know the strains of educational budgets are immense, typically disallowing the acquisition of multiple tools. However, if a graduate seeking an editorial career doesn't have at least a basic working knowledge of the triumvirate of Avid, Premier and Final Cut, they stand a two-in-three chance of hitting a dead end. With that said, it matters far more that they understand story-telling, invaluable training that can be had using any NLE on the market.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Would like an objective comparison of Adobe Premiere CC and Avid Media Composer 7
on Jul 10, 2014 at 7:55:56 pm

[Les Fitzpatrick] "With that said, it matters far more that they understand story-telling, invaluable training that can be had using any NLE on the market."

That's really the key. FCP "legacy", Premiere Pro and Avid Media Composer share a similar operational style, so if a student learns on one, that knowledge can easily be extrapolated to the others.

Avid offers very attractive student deals, including subscription, so if they learn Premiere, but later pick up MC on their own, it will be a pretty easy transition. That's for a student who actually applies themselves to the many tutorials and doesn't just dive in assuming they already know how it works.

In that approach, bear in mind that FCP X is sufficiently different to not be an easy transition. It is very intuitive for many, but also harder for some, who have grown comfortable with a track-based editing model and UI.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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