FORUMS: list search recent posts

Old 2008 MP upgrade?

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Fabrizio D'Agnano
Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 16, 2013 at 8:43:03 pm

Hello.
I was one of those waiting for the new MP to show up, eager to buy it. Nonetheless, the specs seem to point out to a high price upgrading, new MP aside. No PCIe and internal storage means buying an Intensity Extreme, a thunderbolt RAID array, an external BRD/dvd writer and an e-sata hub, for about 2.400,00 euro to be added to the MP. Since my 2008 MP is working flawlessly with the current FCPX and since I won't need to go 4k or the such at least in the next two years, I decided to delay the purchase. So I have some money in my budget for an upgrade to help my MP to work better. I was thinking about removing the internal dvd drive and replacing it with an SSD drive as the system drive, and replace the four sata drives with four 3Tb in a 0+1 raid and maybe add some RAM. Would it make any good or there's something more worth upgrading?
Thank you

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


Return to posts index

Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 7:47:20 am

That'll be some nice internal storage for sure. I just moved from a 1,1 quad to a 3,1 ocho. I moved my 5870 to the new machine and performance is stellar. My point is, have you maxed out the graphics? I've seen a lot of Mac Pros out there with killer RAIDs but 2600XTs. If you're golden there then yeah, sounds like a great internal RAID idea. Another thing to look into for high speed storage would be a PCIe SSD. You could also spend the money on some plugins or extra software. There are plenty of things worth buying, have fun!

--------------------------
Avid MC, PPro CS6, FCP7 - wasting away on my SSD.
I just can't quit X.
--------------------------


Return to posts index

Bernard Newnham
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 8:13:44 am

Using an SSD as a system drive makes a huge difference which is most notable on startup. This W7 machine, which used to take several minutes - get a coffee stuff - now takes 45 seconds.

It isn't as obvious, but all other uses of the operating system go much faster too.

2008 is a long time ago in computer years though.

Bernie


Return to posts index


Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 8:41:39 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "2008 is a long time ago in computer years though."

Yes, obviously true. But the TV channel I produce for still broadcasts SD and requires a PAL IMX file, just like four or five years ago. Most likely they won't change for the next year or two, so the old machine still meets the specs I need, and proved to be reliable and rock solid. If the new MP had internal storage and PciE slots, I would have bought one just the same as soon as available, but since it will not have those, I'll prolong my dear machine life of one more year.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


Return to posts index

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 8:34:14 pm

thank you Nicholas.
My current graphic card is a Radeon HD4870. My idea is to go on with my MP for another year and then go for the new MP. If I buy 4Tb drives for use as internal RAID, it will not be wasted money because I will slap them into a Thunderbolt external Raid next year. And maybe I'll use the 2,5" SSD for my MBP. I am a content creator rather than a "pure" editor, so for me exporting or render time is just a fraction of the whole creative process. I would not spend much money on a graphic card that would anyway EOL'd together with my old and dear machine next year unless it gives me a tangible improvement. How better would a 5870 be compared to mine?

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


Return to posts index

Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 8:39:05 pm

I actually went from a flashed 4970 to a 5870 and there wasn't a huge difference. My reasoning was that 10.6.4 (I believe) broke compatibility. Your card should more than last the next year, but if you were on a 2600XT, you'd definitely want to upgrade. I recently added USB3 which has been quite nice. Went with the CalDigit card, and use it to connect to a Drobo 5D.

--------------------------
Avid MC, PPro CS6, FCP7 - wasting away on my SSD.
I just can't quit X.
--------------------------


Return to posts index


Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 8:45:11 pm

[Nicholas Zimmerman] "I recently added USB3 which has been quite nice. Went with the CalDigit card, and use it to connect to a Drobo 5D."

Interesting! I didn't know there was a card for USB3 for older machines. I only have a 4x slot free, as I have a Sonnet esata and an Intensity pro cards. I'll check if it's enough.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


Return to posts index

Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 8:49:05 pm

Just make sure you do some research. Started this journey on the 1,1 without issue, so seems to work for all Mac Pros across the board. Originally I got the Sonnet which worked with my hard drives, but not the Drobo. A bit of research ended up revealing that the CalDigit cards worked flawlessly with the Drobo. Just keep in mind that each of the aftermarket cards have their little quirks. Also 4x PCIe is just right for these cards, should be fine.

--------------------------
Avid MC, PPro CS6, FCP7 - wasting away on my SSD.
I just can't quit X.
--------------------------


Return to posts index

David Eaks
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 11:25:23 am

I'd been thinking a lot about upgrading my 2008 Mac Pro (8-core 2.8, 16gb, 5770) for FCPX performance as well, of course the anticipation of "something great later in 2013" had halted any major purchases for me. While I'm really looking forward to the new Mac Pro, assuming it blows away other Macs in FCPX/Motion/Compressor performance and stays in line with "Legacy Mac Pro" pricing, its perfect for me, but no matter what my current system will stay in use and am still interested in upgrading it.

I've been using Crucial M4 and Samsung 830 SSDs in both MP and MBP, being able to get away with 128GB for the system drive means its only about $100 each (plus adapter). As others, I'd recommend an SSD for your system drive, at a minimum for any upgrading.

Seeing your post I've revisited a note I've been taking on my ipad, here's a copy/paste-

Mac Pro upgrades-

Internal sata iii hardware raid-
MAXPower RAID mini-SAS 6G-1e1i (which slot?) Link-
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/MXPRMS6G1E1I/

Mini sas to 4x esata fan out-
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Micro%20Accessories/SAS480001M/

Media Drive- internal
Four WD Black 2TB or RED 3TB HDDs in Hardware RAID 1/0/5//10/50/JBOD/SPAN Link- max power...

System Drive- Either

---->PCIe Solid State, accelsior plus 2 esata iii
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/SSDPHWE2R120/

or

SSD in 2nd optical bay with OWC Multi-mount 2,5" (x2) to 3.5" to 5.25 bracket and cable set Link-

or

Cheap PCIe SSD adapter
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SSD-Superspeed-Upgrade-Kit-for-Apple-Mac-Pro-2008-2...



Upgrade from Radeon 5770-

7950-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202027&nm_mc=KNC-G...

Hmm????
http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/tutorials/948-get-fcpx-running-faster-by-in...

--- end /paste---

I'd be I really interested in hearing anyone's thoughts on any of the upgrades listed above.


Return to posts index


Christian Schumacher
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 2:56:18 pm

[David Eaks] "I'd be I really interested in hearing anyone's thoughts on any of the upgrades listed above.
"


The nVidia / FCPX article is old, I'm guessing things now are more inclined to AMD, with the new Mac Pro and the recently released AMD 3Gb offering that you also linked to. So, regarding FCPX-Motion performance, anybody with a MacPro capable of upgrading should have it as the best choice for now. The truth is the Mac Pro in its current form is still viable for running standartized components such as PCIe SSd, GPU cards and general expansion. There's has been lot's of options in the market for the Mac Pro which is not surprising since the latest model is being sold worldwide for three years already, except for the EU recently.

But it was a great post, very useful for the swarms of people wanting to upgrade their existing Mac Pros that surely will pop in more often, from now on.
It takes only a very light knowledge to do these simple operations as it isn't only easy to do as it is to find info about it spread all over the web.
And before anyone yells -Get an Imac instead! Riddle me this: Had these folks previously bought a 2010 Mac Pro and a 2010 iMac for instance...
-How would these two machines perform today? Fairly different, I'd say, even if we don't consider the upgrade ability. So, unless you're keen on
entering a fast paced two year upgrade cycle, don't ever hop on the iMac bandwagon. And here's hoping that the new Mac Pro doesn't go the same way.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 3:03:04 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "-How would these two machines perform today? Fairly different, I'd say, even if we don't consider the upgrade ability. So, unless you're keen on
entering a fast paced two year upgrade cycle, don't ever hop on the iMac bandwagon. And here's hoping that the new Mac Pro doesn't go the same way."


I'm allowing for 3 years on the new MacPro.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


Return to posts index

David Eaks
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 18, 2013 at 8:51:36 am

[Christian Schumacher] "The nVidia / FCPX article is old, I'm guessing..."

Ahh, I think I still needed to take a closer look at that article, but that saves me from bothering.

[Christian Schumacher] "AMD 3Gb offering that you also linked to. So, regarding FCPX-Motion performance, anybody with a MacPro capable of upgrading should have it as the best choice for now."

The Sapphire Radeon 7950? From reading other threads it does seem like it would be the best for FCP X in Legacy Mac Pros. Any particular real-world FCPX comparisons with this card that I should check out? Wondering if it's cost to benefit ratio will be worth it for me.

[Christian Schumacher] "The truth is the Mac Pro in its current form is still viable for running standartized components such as PCIe SSd, GPU cards and general expansion"

My thoughts exactly. I plan to keep it around for some time, easing the transition to the new Mac Pro and all of its extra costs of Thunderbolt devices and adapters.


Return to posts index


Christian Schumacher
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 18, 2013 at 4:17:31 pm

[David Eaks] "The Sapphire Radeon 7950? From reading other threads it does seem like it would be the best for FCP X in Legacy Mac Pros. Any particular real-world FCPX comparisons with this card that I should check out? Wondering if it's cost to benefit ratio will be worth it for me."

If one has a FCPX-MOTION workflow - and also has a working MacPro - the AMD 7950 should be the best bet for future pro apps updates.
I'm not sure if is good only for the 4,1 and 5,1 though, but there's the 5770 and 5870 for those older machines (or Q4000, or even PC cards )
Given the complete Mac line boosting dual GPUs now and Mavericks reportedly enhancing graphics capabilities, FCPX should eat VRAM too.

[David Eaks] "My thoughts exactly. I plan to keep it around for some time, easing the transition to the new Mac Pro and all of its extra costs of Thunderbolt devices and adapters.
"


I bet there's a lot of people going that route. This isn't an overnight switch like software can be.


Return to posts index

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 9:14:03 pm

Just one doubt: the SAS to eSATA cable means you want to plug external drives? Or should it be sata for internal drives? In my case the problem is I already have the graphic card, a Sonnet Tempo e-sata card, and an intensity Pro card, so all that's left is a 4x slot, while the RAID card requires an 8x. A HW RAID5 option would be much better than a SW 0+1, I guess

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


Return to posts index

David Eaks
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 17, 2013 at 11:18:44 pm

Yes, well, both internal and external. There are two mini sas connections, one inside and one outside. Upgrading the internal bays (not bootable, no bootcamp) to SATA iii and also allowing for 4 external esata iii ( sata iii only on Mac Pro 3,1 and above) connections with the fan out cable. It would replace the Sonnet Tempo card (in my case LaCie 4x esata ii card, almost all of my external devices are esata: RAIDs, dual bare-drive dock, Blu-ray burners etc. otherwise the built in FW and USB are fine for me). My thought was also to have an internal 4-drive Hardware RAID-5 Media Drive, will that take advantage of sata iii speeds?

What graphics card do you have installed?

Also the accelsior e2 (bootable, no bootcamp) has two more external esata iii ports, which could reduce the demand on the mini sas card. Also looks like good reviews, tech support and upgradeable storage cards.

The intensity pro card should be fine on any pci slot, right? (in my case Matrox MXO2 host card).

The question I have about all these potential upgrades is, will there be a noticeable improvement in performance in FCPX/Motion/Compressor and if so, what part the workflow is the improvement seen?


Return to posts index


Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 18, 2013 at 11:32:49 am

[David Eaks] "The question I have about all these potential upgrades is, will there be a noticeable improvement in performance in FCPX/Motion/Compressor and if so, what part the workflow is the improvement seen?"
I can't tell about the graphic card for render or export speed, which is not a problem in my case, but the reason I am thinking about the upgrade is mainly about media management and safety, and a bit about speed. My couple of 2TB internal drives in sw RAID0 offer enough speed for what I need. I then have a system drive and an export drive. However, I need an external 4TB RAID set to mirror the Events internal RAID every day I add footage, just in case one of the drive fails. An internal RAID5 of great capacity (4 x 3Tb, resulting in 9 usable Tb) would save me that time, would allow me to keep more events alive (I work on 26' documentaries that often require months of shooting and editing before being completed and delivered, and many of them can overlap), and to reverse the external 4TB RAID0 drive into a 2TB RAID1 one for fcparch archive. Since I want to use the 5 drives option the MP gives me, I was thinking about going for the fastest system drive. Maybe with about the same money of the sas card, that looks like a great option, I could buy an external esata RAID box that I could migrate to the future MacPro. That would be the only doubt. Of course, while I want my current machine to be up and running for another year at its best pace, I'd rather spend money on something that could be still used in the future than something going to be buried together with the old horse.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


Return to posts index

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 18, 2013 at 3:07:38 pm

[David Eaks] "Mac Pro upgrades-

Internal sata iii hardware raid-
MAXPower RAID mini-SAS 6G-1e1i (which slot?) Link-
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/MXPRMS6G1E1I/"


I was just about to order the card, when I had a doubt: how do I connect the sata cable to the internal drives? don't they plug direct onto the motherboard? I am sure I'm missing something easy, but...

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


Return to posts index

David Eaks
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 18, 2013 at 10:46:20 pm

Basically there is mini sas in there already, you bypass the logic board so the internal drives go to the new card. but its in the front of the mac, so you need the extender to reach that far- $87

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/MaxUpgrades/SZDCMSASR2MS/


Quote below from- http://blog.macsales.com/12247-upgrade-your-06-08-mac-pro’s-internal-bays...

"How does it work?
The backplane (where the drives in the bays are connected) consists of four pass-thru SATA connections which are, in turn, connected to the SATA controller on the logic board (located near the front of the Mac Pro) via a mini-SAS connector.

The great thing is that mini-SAS is a fairly common connector for PCIe SATA controller cards. The trick is to find one with that mini-SAS connector on the inside. Fortunately, the Newer Technology MAXPower RAID mini-SAS 6G-1e1i controller card happens to fit the bill nicely. Not only does it feature an internal mini-SAS port, it also has a built-in (hardware) RAID controller which supports RAID Level 0, 1, 5, 10, and 50 along with individual drive support and disk spanning, as well as an external port for more expansion options.

But we’re getting ahead of ourselves; let’s concentrate on upgrading those drive bays.

What’s involved in the process?
Once you install the MAXPower card in your Mac, you’ll notice that the mini-SAS cable that connects to the logic board is located near the front of the Mac Pro and the internal port on the card is located near the rear - much too far away from each other to connect. This is easily remedied, however, by using a mini-SAS extender cable to bridge the distance.

Once connected, the four drive bays in the Mac Pro are now being controlled by the RAID card, making it capable of both high-speed data transfer and more advanced RAID options.

At this point, we run into a bit of a problem; the MAXPower card isn’t bootable in a Mac. You will need to put your OS on a drive installed in one of the optical bays."...


Return to posts index

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jun 19, 2013 at 8:34:01 pm

Thank you David.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


Return to posts index

David Eaks
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jul 18, 2013 at 11:36:45 am

Curious if you ordered the card, or any other upgrades?


Return to posts index

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Old 2008 MP upgrade?
on Jul 18, 2013 at 9:07:05 pm

That card was not available at the moment, so I did not order it. I installed a SSD drive in the optical bay, and a cheap USB3 card, and I bought a couple of USB3 two drives boxes. The internal RAID I use for editing is fast enough for my purposes. I sync the events RAID set on an external 4Tb drive, and I backup/archive on other external RAID1 or RAID0 two drives sets. I am very happy with my machine. I am sure it will continue to allow me working for another year or more without a hitch.
Regards

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]