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The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?

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Bill Davis
The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 8:33:43 pm

As I noted below, this is almost laughable.

Apple gives everyone what we've been waiting for. The promise of a new MacPro. With updated specs way beyond what we've had before.

Then they do something REALLY weird. In the freakin' KEYNOTE, they specifically mention what WE all do for a living. They note that the new MacPro is being designed for what? To work with What? Final Cut Pro X? That thing that VIDEO editors use?

Creative cloud's big announcement exempts Lightroom cuz, you know, Adobe can't afford to annoy their PHOTO folks. Yet Apple puts VIDEO EDITING in the keynote.

And all anyone can do is bitch about their imaginary view about how the hardware that nobody has every seen or experience will surely FAIL because they're obviously smarter and more informed than the engineers building the beast at Apple.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

My prediction. The new MacPros will be just like FCP-X. Derided - right up to the point you learn to actually use it - then it transforms into something that does what Apple has been doing for years now.

Make the purchaser happy to have made the investment.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Neil Goodman
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 8:37:43 pm

[Bill Davis] "My prediction. The new MacPros will be just like FCP-X. Derided - right up to the point you learn to actually use it - then it transforms into something that does what Apple has been doing for years now. "


So we'll have to re-learn how to use a computer too? geeeezus shut up already.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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Gary Huff
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 8:39:25 pm

So we'll have to re-learn how to use a computer too? geeeezus shut up already.

Cut him a break. It's not about the usability, it's about feeling young again!


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Bob Woodhead
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 8:37:45 pm

Added benefit - if you get it really cranked up during processing, it should make decent Smoothies, too. Toss a few fruit (apples, too) in the top, do a Send to Compressor, et voila', creamy delight out the bottom. All unified-like. :D

(It's OK Bill, I like FCPX.)


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Gary Huff
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 8:38:00 pm

because they're obviously smarter and more informed than the engineers building the beast at Apple.

So engineers are always smarter than the customers? Or only Apple engineers?


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Chris Jacek
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 8:46:12 pm

[Gary Huff] "So engineers are always smarter than the customers? Or only Apple engineers?"

All engineers in general. But ESPECIALLY Apple engineers. Don't you know that we, as a society, all failed by not loving the G4 Cube and the "hockey puck" mouse.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:03:26 pm

I swear to god - i actually liked the hockey puck. G3 with an ice board for AE and the hockey puck was my first serious mac - I always felt the hockey puck was a nice loose finger tip mouse.

there - I've said it - I always liked the hockey puck.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jim Giberti
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:46:57 pm

[Gary Huff] "So engineers are always smarter than the customers? Or only Apple engineers?
"


If your asking about their knowledge of the hardware that creative, producers use - then yes, it would be eminently logical to suggest that hardware engineers know more about hardware engineering than the people who use their finished products. The same goes for architects, rocket scientists etc.

As far as Apple engineers, also yes. I think it's an intelligent suggestion that the wealthiest corporation in the world with the highest profile regarding computer and device innovation, have above average engineers on board. I think Apple engineers have a pretty high bar to reach in order to work there.

I would trust them to design a great computer a lot more than I would, say, you .


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Phil Hoppes
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:00:37 pm

For Video, I would bet it's fine. For 3D Graphics, which is what I do, it's a joke. I don't need to use to know. Everything in 3D is tied to the number of threads you can render with and that's CPU threads not graphic cards. This machine is restricted to a single CPU. My specific needs are certainly not what 90% of those on this board are so for many of them this tube should work ok.

I think the spaghetti that is going to result in tying in all of the peripherals one might need is going to be humorous but that's not my problem. Get your MacPro Octopus at BestBuy today!


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James Cude
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:06:23 pm

[Phil Hoppes] "For Video, I would bet it's fine. For 3D Graphics, which is what I do, it's a joke. I don't need to use to know. "

They did mention during the keynote that folks from Pixar would be running the new Mac Pro through its paces Tuesday at WWDC.


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Phil Hoppes
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:22:16 pm

Yea I saw that. And for Pixar, who has a render farm of Oh... 5000 machines, their artists don't need to worry about using their desktop to render as they have... 5000 machines to do that.

For freelance 3D graphic artists, we don't have 5000 machines to render and our desktop and a server or two if we are lucky, is what we render with.

I'm sure Maya running VRay looks real impressive for rough draft real time rendering. That's demo showmanship and only 1/3 of the total requirements for a 3D workflow. Final renders don't use graphic cards, they use CPU's as all of the effects and shaders cannot be done with graphic card engines.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:28:22 pm

You keep saying it only supports 1 CPU - which Xeon has 12 cores? Is something coming soon?

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Walter Soyka
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:41:49 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "You keep saying it only supports 1 CPU - which Xeon has 12 cores? Is something coming soon?"

Yes. The Xeon E5-2600 v2 series, slated for release later this year, has 12 cores on a single CPU.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Lance Bachelder
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:05:11 pm

Sounds good to me - though it's probably an expensive chip?

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Walter Soyka
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:10:41 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "Sounds good to me - though it's probably an expensive chip?"

Yes, it certainly will be. Current 8-core Xeons are at least $1,000 with some closer to $2,000 for just the CPU.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Nicholas Zimmerman
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:00:53 pm

[Bill Davis] "Apple gives everyone what we've been waiting for. The promise of a new MacPro. With updated specs way beyond what we've had before."

I'm a bit down about the upgrade options, but in general, it's a lot more of a win than what we had before. Before this we had a machine that was stuck in purgatory, nobody knew if it would stay on sale or not (and the answer was "not" for Europe). But today, they announced that there is something really powerful on the way. The denial is over, I'm starting to get really excited, but I still have one lingering doubt... What about RAM upgrades / pricing?

--------------------------
Avid MC, PPro CS6, FCP7 - wasting away on my SSD.
I just can't quit X.
--------------------------


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Michael Hadley
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:11:15 pm

I agree. I think the new machine looks like it could potentially be very powerful—or at least a terrific machine for cutting video. Which is all I care about here in the "FCPX Or Not" Forum. And the expandability via T-bolt 2.0 may help keep costs down--more a la carte.


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Steve Connor
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:14:57 pm

[Michael Hadley] "I agree. I think the new machine looks like it could potentially be very powerful—or at least a terrific machine for cutting video. Which is all I care about here in the "FCPX Or Not" Forum"

A very good point

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:30:24 pm

Ha ha some funny comments, "smoothies!" :)

But I seriously agree this IS the FCPX or Not forum and this machine is a big deal in an all-Apple ecosystem for Video Editing.

Phil, shouldn't your operation be running on high-end HP workstations anyway?

Doug D


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Shane Ross
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:33:27 pm

Oh, I think this is the PERFECT computer for FCX. Designed with FCX in mind. Not really any OTHER editing system, but FCX...yup.
Like FCX, it's simplified and cuts out all that other stuff that only a few high end editors need. And if you do need it...look, you can rely on third parties to make what you need that'll plug right in! Blame THEM if it doesn't work right.

If Apple makes the expansion chassis...I might be happier. ANd if they keep the price of the iRecycleBin...er...MacPro low to allow us to afford all the peripherals we'll need in order to make it usable to us.

I'll most likely get it. Because working with PCs and Windows is just too painful.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Steve Connor
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 9:36:39 pm

[Shane Ross] "Oh, I think this is the PERFECT computer for FCX. Designed with FCX in mind. Not really any OTHER editing system, but FCX...yup. "

I believe Adobe have already stated that PPro will be able to take advantage of the Open CL

[Shane Ross] "I'll most likely get it. Because working with PCs and Windows is just too painful."

BTW don't forget to admit that you were were wrong when you posted last year that you knew for certain there would be no new MacPro : )

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Shane Ross
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:06:07 pm

[Steve Connor] "BTW don't forget to admit that you were were wrong when you posted last year that you knew for certain there would be no new MacPro : )"

Not sure I consider this a new MacPro. Rather a more powerful Mini.

But I will admit I was wrong.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Steve Connor
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:08:50 pm

[Shane Ross] "Not sure I consider this a new MacPro. Rather a more powerful Mini.
"


Semantics but I take your point.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Jim Wiseman
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 11, 2013 at 12:12:36 am

It is small, but other than that, I would say it is nothing like a mini. I don't want a mini. This, I want.

And the Adobe guys are already talking about how great their Open CL development is and Dual GPUs on our favorite, Creative Cloud. Don't see why it wouldn't run Avid MC very well, also. It does clearly make one take interest in FCX. Which I am now doing.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.3, Premiere Pro 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe


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larry towers
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:08:00 pm

BTW don't forget to admit that you were were wrong when you posted last year that you knew for certain there would be no new MacPro : )

No he was right. This is a new macpro just like Final cut ProX Is the new Final Cut PRO. Actually FCPX is more capable.



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Steve Connor
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:10:04 pm

[larry towers] "No he was right. This is a new macpro just like Final cut ProX Is the new Final Cut PRO.."

Couldn't have said it better myself

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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James Daugherty
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:01:15 pm

That's it. The "MacXpro" computer. What a joke. It this a MacCube or what?

I will be making Hacitosh computers from now until the put out a IPAD version of OSX.

What a bunch of crap. I sold my apple stock at $650. Looks like a short could make some money.

Alienware for the win..

James Daugherty
President SDMVPUG.com
San Diego Mac Video Production User Group


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Phillip Todd
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:42:47 pm

Quote: "I will be making Hacitosh computers from now until the put out a IPAD version of OSX."

-Agreed, I think the Hackintosh community will most likely see an increase in users thanks to Apple today. It also looks like that maybe the most cost effective and upgradable way to go.

Phillip Todd
Cinematographer

http://vimeo.com/philliptodd


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larry towers
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:02:44 pm

Are you drinking Koolaid?

The spacs are comparing the New Mac Pro to the current ENTRY LEVEL mac Pro!!!!!

+ No meaningful expansion Thunderbolt 2.0 is too slow. It is only twice as fast as thunderbolt. Thunderbolt is the equivalent of PCIe2.0 x 4 So Thunderbolt 2.0 = PCIe x 2.0 x 8 WOW!

Do you have any idea how fast Current PCIe 3.0 is? PCIe 3.0's 8 GT/s bit rate effectively delivers 985 MB/s per lane, double PCIe 2.0 bandwidth.

Thunderbolt 2 is PCI 32.0 compatible but does not operate at full bandwidth (obviously) since it is only 2x faster than thunderbolt! What do you think happens when you put a PCIe 3.0 X16 card in an expansion chassis that is only as fast (at BEST!) as a pci 2.0 x 8 bus?


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James Daugherty
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:28:26 pm

You know that math and data cannot be used as an argument against anything Apple does.
sarcasm/ "Isn't it PRETTY" /sarcasm

MacXpro - "For people who don't know the difference."

James Daugherty
President SDMVPUG.com
San Diego Mac Video Production User Group


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Herb Sevush
Re: The Sour Grapes of Wrath Forum?
on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:56:22 pm

[Bill Davis] "Apple gives everyone what we've been waiting for. "

Who are we and what have we been waiting for?

So far the announcement is a little sketchy and I'm not sure if this a MacPro update or a MacMini update.

We don't know the price, we don't know the ram limits, we don't know if you can swap in different GPUs.

We seem to know that it is not dual CPU capable and that while Thunderbolt 2 is nice it does not have anything to match the speed of PCi3 peripherals.

It does have a very fast SSD boot drive, but it's not swappable and hwith an external boot drive you would be limited by Thunderbolts thruput.

So, as always, you assume because it's good enough for you that it's good enough for everyone else and anybody who is unsatisfied is some sort of congenital complainer. I'd say the jury is still out and I'd like to get a little more info before I lift my glass and cry huzzah.

[Bill Davis] "right up to the point you learn to actually use it "

If I have to "learn how to use" this new MacPro, then someone at Apple didn't do their job. It's a tube stuffed with standard off the shelf parts, you would no more have to learn how to use it then you would have to learn how to drive a Kia if you were a Honda owner. Either it will get you where you need to go or it won't and it will be judged on price/performance. Nothing mystical is going on here Bill.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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