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FCP X Professional Opinions

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Victor Vazquez
FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 7:58:14 pm

Hello,

I recently heard that companies, at least in New York, choose to stay with Final Cut Pro 7 because FCP X lacks certain features. What are your opinions of FCP X? I wanted to get a certification in the new FCP X, but now am wondering if it's even worth it. Would it be worth it to get certified in the new FCP? Does anyone use FCP X at work?

Thanks,
Victor Vazquez


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 8:42:24 pm

[Victor Vazquez] "Does anyone use FCP X at work?"

yes. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 8:54:57 pm

No. But given the present options I'm more than willing to consider it. If Apple gets it together to support workflows other than those they perceive as valid. I don't think this is gonna happen but, who knows?

Tim


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 9:02:40 pm

[TImothy Auld] "If Apple gets it together to support workflows other than those they perceive as valid. I don't think this is gonna happen but, who knows?"

Just curious, what workflows do you believe Apple doesn't find valid?

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 9:11:58 pm

Really Charlie? Look back a few years.

Tim


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 9:40:17 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Really Charlie? Look back a few years.

Tim
"


I'm serious. :-) I assume you're referring to the EOL of many of their "pro" products right? If so, I can see your point, I just happen to disagree that it means they don't take the pro market seriously. I just think it means that they're just gonna concentrate on "core" apps, incorporating as much of the functionality of EOL apps into them as possible, and let 3rd parties pick up any slack left behind.

I'm convinced they're committed to FCP X, Logic, and Motion. Probably Compressor as well. For other stuff?

FC Server >> Cat DV etc
DVD Studio Pro >> Encore (or DVD Studio Pro... still works)
Color >> Resolve Etc
Shake >> Nuke etc.

On the hardware side? The new iMac runs circles around my Mac Pro, Our GFX guy is running AE and C4D with 3 monitors from a RMBP. He's nuts, but that's another story... :-) There's a new Mac Pro coming out anyway.

Xserve/XRaid? There are a million server/raid vendors, why compete?

I don't have any top secret knowledge, but I have spoken at length with folks involved with FCP X development and marketing at Apple and they're taking it very seriously.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Shane Ross
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 10:20:09 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Just curious, what workflows do you believe Apple doesn't find valid?"

Anything involving non-firewire tape sources. And there is PLENTY of productions that still use tape. Documentary production alone will still need to capture tape...mainly archival material. And due to the sheer amount of footage, offline/online workflow with tape. FCX doesn't do that at all. Offline/online tapeless, sure. But to them, tape no longer exists.

Many TV networks still demand tape masters as deliverables. Some still require tape for shooting (but those are rare, and really in the dark ages).

But that's the realm of those of us in the "high end, 2% market" that FCX doesn't really care about anymore. We are too demanding and not profitable enough. An yes, there are "3rd party solutions" to this. As there always are when NLEs are made lacking basic, COMMON features needed to get work done.

Shared media/project workflows. I hear there is some workaround for this, but it isn't solid. And Apple is mum about any future plans on this topic. Again, that's in the realm of the high end 2%ers.

Those are the workflows I'm still dealing with. I have worked on completely tapeless shows, but still find myself dealing with other shows that shoot, or deliver, tape. It is a current need that FCX ignores. It looks only to THE FUTURE! That future might be farther off than they think.

Not saying that FCX is a perfectly good tool and an amazing option for many types of productions. You just asked which ones it doesn't find valid. Well, the ones that I'm currently working on daily, and have been ever since FCP 7 was EOL'd, and will be for the forseeable future.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 11:01:07 pm

[Shane Ross]
"But that's the realm of those of us in the "high end, 2% market" that FCX doesn't really care about anymore. We are too demanding and not profitable enough. An yes, there are "3rd party solutions" to this. As there always are when NLEs are made lacking basic, COMMON features needed to get work done.


I hear ya. But I'll also point out that those features are currently *not* common if they're only needed by 2% of the market. ;-) I always found FCP 7's Edit to tape function to be kind of fiddly anyway. I can't imagine that using BM's Media Express or something would be any more difficult, other than needing to export the cuts first.


[Shane Ross] Shared media/project workflows. I hear there is some workaround for this, but it isn't solid. And Apple is mum about any future plans on this topic. Again, that's in the realm of the high end 2%ers.

Using shared media, at least on NAS works just like FCP 7 or anything else. no workarounds at all. Media lives on the server for everyone to use, X references it. Project/Event sharing takes a couple steps more than it did in 7, but it's easy. Not surprising that Apple is mum on exactly what they're doing, but I know they're doing something. Maybe it'll be Cloud based. :-D

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Don Scioli
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 10:08:20 pm

Though I purchased FCPX when it came out, I messed around with it for a while, then took a course when 10.05 was released and I haven;t even opened 7 in over a year.
I cut a feature length doc with it, using hours of raw footage, in such a quick turnaround using the awesome skimmer, that it took me less than a month to have a fine cut. 7 would have taken much longer, at least 2-3 months.

We've also done a bunch of commercials, marketing tapes, web videos and even some 2 hour long conference videos with multi cam. Allow me to say that multi cam on X is one of the man made wonders of the modern world. It's quick, fun, intuitive and fast as hell. I don't even know if 7 did multi cam, but X did it great...I watched one video on how to do multi cam and off to the races.

I've been involved in film/video since the days of the Moviola in film school and X is the best editing platform yet.

I have Avid 6, PP5.5 and 7 on my Mac Pro and haven't even opened them in over a year.
And these were all paying gigs.

BTW, I have it right from the horses mouth that Apple is 100% behind FCPX and will continue to innovate it from here on.


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Bill Davis
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 10:31:21 pm

Dammit Don, Be QUIET.

I'd prefer at least another year to strengthen my X skills before the wider world starts adopting it. That way I can continue to stretch X abilities out ahead of the general pack of editors.

So please, don't say anything else nice anymore about X in public!

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Don Scioli
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 11:13:32 pm

Bill -I was one of the most virulent critics of X when it came out, cursing it on a daily basis. But one they improved it and I took the time to learn it, it has really saved me time and effort. For a small production operation like I have, it meets every requirement I can think of. It took me much less time to become fluent on X than on 7, Avid, or PP.

Go for the gusto, baby, and dive in. You can charge the same yet work less time on projects with X, and the client will never know.


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 11:43:50 pm

Yes we do.

I bought it when released, hated it. After the 10.0.3 update gave it Another chance.

Learned how to use it. Went from frustration to less frustration to loving the program.

Now, because of my experience, the company where i do freelance work switched from 7 to X, i am their Main editor. My friend/collegue now learned it from me after I said I was planning to do à full switch.

No NLE is perfect, but generally we have been VERY HAPPY with X So far.
My collegue now also for his private projects and other clients only uses X and Says that he could never go back to 7 because X is much faster once you get used to it.


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 11:56:33 pm

[Mathieu Ghekiere] "I bought it when released, hated it. After the 10.0.3 update gave it Another chance.

Learned how to use it. Went from frustration to less frustration to loving the program. "


Same here. I think this is a pretty common progression. I also think a lot of people stop at "hated it". Oh well. Obviously there are some folks whose workflow requires things not currently implemented in X, but that list of things is pretty small these days. Looking forward to the next version! :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andrew Kimery
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 5, 2013 at 11:57:39 pm

Not using X in LA though if it looks like places I work/want to work might start using it I'll pick it up.




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Victor Vazquez
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 6, 2013 at 1:24:14 am

Thanks for the insight!

Victor Vazquez


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Victor Vazquez
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 6, 2013 at 3:35:52 am

I hear that one concern with FCP X is that it doesn't export XML or OMF. But new Mac systems have issues with FCP 7.

Victor Vazquez


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 6, 2013 at 4:00:29 am

[Victor Vazquez] "I hear that one concern with FCP X is that it doesn't export XML or OMF. But new Mac systems have issues with FCP 7"

Well.. yes and no. Also, 7 works fine on new systems FWIW.

Anyway, X does do XML, but it's it's own "flavor" There are some apps (Resolve. Smoke) that read native fcpxml files, and Xto7 ($50) can tranlate it to a format readable by FCP 7 and Pr. There may be others but that's off the top of my head. If you need EDL's, EDL-X ($100) does the trick really well.

AFAIK nobody does OMF for X yet, but X2Pro ($50 or $150) will create AAF's for Protools, Nuendo, and uh... something else I think. It's really nice and essentially makes nice clean split tracks for you - if you use Roles to their full effect.

If you need OMF, you can just open an X sequence in 7 (7 to X) and export from there. To be fair, you might need to clean things up a bit first depending on the complexity of your audio, but it's not bad.

So, to "play nice" with traditional finishing workflows, you need to spend a couple hundred bucks more or less to get that stuff out. Cheaper than Automatic Duck used to be... :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Herb Sevush
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 6, 2013 at 1:52:08 pm

[Charlie Austin] "If you need OMF, you can just open an X sequence in 7 (7 to X) and export from there. To be fair, you might need to clean things up a bit first depending on the complexity of your audio, but it's not bad.

So, to "play nice" with traditional finishing workflows, you need to spend a couple hundred bucks more or less to get that stuff out."


A couple of hundred plus the cost of owning FCP7. So if you are a new editor, your cost is what - $300 for X, $100 for compressor and Motion, $50 for Xto7, $50 to 7toX, $100 EDL-X, $50 for XtoPro, and $900 for FCP7 - That's $1550 for a system that requires going in and out of multiple programs to get any kind of finishing done. Yep, a bargain and a workflow that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Steve Connor
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 6, 2013 at 3:22:11 pm

Is OMF still the only option in a lot of workflows?

Every time I've been asked for an OMF by a Post House, I've offered an AAF instead and it's been fine.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 6, 2013 at 3:40:14 pm

[Steve Connor] "Is OMF still the only option in a lot of workflows?

Every time I've been asked for an OMF by a Post House, I've offered an AAF instead and it's been fine."


Nope, AAF's work. I just added that to be fair. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Steve Connor
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 6, 2013 at 4:09:18 pm

Is OMF still

Every time I've been asked for an OMF, I've offered an AAF instead and it's been fine.



[Herb Sevush] "A couple of hundred plus the cost of owning FCP7. So if you are a new editor, your cost is what - $300 for X, $100 for compressor and Motion, $50 for Xto7, $50 to 7toX, $100 EDL-X, $50 for XtoPro, and $900 for FCP7 - That's $1550 for a system that requires going in and out of multiple programs to get any kind of finishing done. Yep, a bargain and a workflow that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
"


That's a worst case scenario if you need OMF's, If you export AAF's then take off $900 for FCP and that's $650 for a system that can output to ProTools and Resolve EASILY. Something we do on a regular basis.

.....and you only pay once!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 6, 2013 at 4:03:49 am

FCP X has always exported XML its just not compatible with other NLEs. 3rd party solutions are out there. The big scandal was that it could not read XML from FCP 7, 7toX solved that.

As far as I know Resolve reads Xs XML.

For OMF you can use Automatic Duck.

A lot of negativity you hear is from people not really having used it, at least thats my experience. There is very little you can't do with, except for certain workflows that editors have gotten used to.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Leo Hans
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 6, 2013 at 7:24:38 pm

You can't use Automatic Duck for OMF. It has been discontinued and It does not work with 10.0.3 and newer.
You can use X2Pro to get AAF that should be the same.

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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alban egger
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 6, 2013 at 7:23:08 pm

Does anyone use FCPX at work?

Around me pretty everyone has moved or is currently moving from 7 to X.
I was at a start-up workshop today where there were 3 film/media-startups. All are using X already.

So yes. Many use itvat work/professionally. Only those who have a special investment in hardware or another special workflow stick to 7. These are usually larger productions. But the small ones can move quicker and adapt easier to more modern workflows.

Before you ask what modern is: definitely no tape, various formats and codecs, varied outputs in various resolutions of the same programme, shooters bring home too much footage that has to be logged and edited in less time....



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Matias Canelson
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 7, 2013 at 1:18:47 am

I finished cutting a 80 minutes indie movie a few weeks ago, except for a bug syncing audio and video that made me lost 2 days of work, everything was fine. It was shoot with an XDCam and a Canon Vixia, external audio with a Zoom H4N.

I used FCPx to edit, X2Pro to send the audio to Protools and we color grade with Assimilate Scratch I thought I could use Xto7 to export an XML to Scratch, but finally my boss told me to export a full quality Apple ProRes file and let scratch find the cuts. So I didn´t buy Xto7 to test if how well Scratch imports it.

FCPx > $ 300
X2ProLE > $ 60
Xto7 > $ 50
XTI for subtitles > Free

Not bad at all.

--
MatiasCanelson
http://www.canelson.com.ar


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 7, 2013 at 9:31:00 am

[Victor Vazquez] "Does anyone use FCP X at work?"

I do. I am now cutting about the tenth 26' documentary for a television on FCPX. As most of the current users, I bought it as soon as it was available, was very disappointed with it and refused to really try it, then after some time, I bought a Ripple Training tutorial, tried FPCX with a different mind, and adopted as my only editing software. I would never go back to FCP7, as I have found FCPX much faster and more pleasant for my workflow. I am sure I can edit much faster because these last ten documentaries are the tail of a much longer series, all of the same format, I edited the previous episodes in FCP7, and the difference is relevant once I got used. Maybe the skimmer, maybe the background rendering, maybe the media organization that is really great for my workflow, maybe the magnetic timeline, maybe all this together, or maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm the only one, but I like the audio part too..

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


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Victor Vazquez
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 7, 2013 at 3:18:33 pm

It seems like you can get the job done faster with FCP X but there seems to be issues when working with tape and exporting certain formats.

Victor Vazquez


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alban egger
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 7, 2013 at 9:04:14 pm

Tape is indeed not easy.
On the export side I see only few issues especially with OMF. But that can be handled via AAF.

I personally like the modular character of FCPX. The NLE gets you far, but if you need AAFs, MXFs etc then get a plu-in, but if not you have a good package for a great price!



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Keith Koby
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 7, 2013 at 8:51:08 pm

[Victor Vazquez] "I recently heard that companies, at least in New York, choose to stay with Final Cut Pro 7 because FCP X lacks certain features. What are your opinions of FCP X? I wanted to get a certification in the new FCP X, but now am wondering if it's even worth it. Would it be worth it to get certified in the new FCP? Does anyone use FCP X at work?"

Hi. We are in NYC, we use it extensively (yes - for real work!), and we hire freelancers who know how to use it. Certify yourself if you want. I think the classes are getting better at a few places like MEW.

Keith Koby
Sr. Director Post-Production Engineering
iNDEMAND
Howard TV!/Movies On Demand/iNDEMAND Pay-Per-View/iNDEMAND 3D


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Victor Vazquez
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Jun 9, 2013 at 3:25:42 am

[Keith Koby]"Hi. We are in NYC, we use it extensively (yes - for real work!), and we hire freelancers who know how to use it."

Thanks! It's good to know that FCP X is used in NYC.

Victor Vazquez


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philip smeulers
Re: FCP X Professional Opinions
on Apr 30, 2014 at 8:03:08 pm

No we do not use FCP X, we use media composer, Premiere, FCP 7.


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