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NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???

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Michel Gallone
NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:10:15 pm

I don't see much posts about hardware.
But to me the issue is:
Should we move to a powerful HP, Dell, Boxxtech or even custom PCs running Linux and Windows 7?

This is relevant because I have the feeling Apple's next move is to remove Pro functions in upcoming OS X releases.
At some points our beautiful 12 core MacPros will become totally obsolete and unusable... I think this will happen sooner than expected.

We can see it in Apple's move not to support CUDA for example.

Currently, people running Premiere and After Effects on W7 beneficiate from a much higher computing speed.: This is a reality.

But then it really means big $$$ for all of us. Switching from brand new 12 cores MAcs to 12 Cores PCs will involve so much money that only the healthiest of the video and audio professionals will do it right now.
I certainly cannot imagine this kind of investment for my small business structure.

What are your opinions….

Michel Gallone
Sowatt Music sàrl
Music Post and Shooting
http://sowattmusic.com


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Michael Hancock
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:39:00 pm

Your 12-core Macs aren't going to quit working. When they're old and you need up upgrade your hardware, look at where things are. If Apple doesn't have a suitable replacement or you don't like where they're going, buy a PC.

The parts are the same - the OS is the difference. Install Windows on your Mac and see if your software will run (if you have Windows versions). Otherwise, don't sweat it. Or sell me your 12-cores for a couple hundred bucks. I'll buy the lot of them. :-)

Michael

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Michel Gallone
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:17:02 pm

Regarding Mac Pros

No they are not going to stop working
But if the next OS x does not support FCP6 or 7 : to that means they stopped working!!!

Boot Camp using Mac Pros is not a pro solution: Drivers are not well written and it will never behave like a Z800 or any Pro Grade PC rinnig W7 or linux...

Michel Gallone
Sowatt Music sàrl
Music Post and Shooting
http://sowattmusic.com


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Chris Kenny
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:51:46 pm

[Michel Gallone] "This is relevant because I have the feeling Apple's next move is to remove Pro functions in upcoming OS X releases."

This whole "Apple doesn't care about pros" narrative, which some people seem to be buying into as incontrovertible fact, is based wholly on data points that have entirely plausible alternative explanations. The really ironic thing here is that a year ago, the primary support being offered for this narrative was that Apple hadn't rewritten Final Cut Pro as a 64-bit Cocoa app yet, but of course we now know that Apple was doing precisely that. Yet somehow, despite the fact that the very existence of FCP X undermined the chief reason people had come to believe Apple didn't care about pros in the first place, many of those people have gone on to view the entire announcement and rollout through that same lens.

Here's the actual reality:

Apple needed to rewrite Final Cut Pro. Pretty much everyone recognized this. People spent a couple of years freaking out because they didn't have realistic expectations with respect to how long a rewrite would take.

Apple finished the rewrite, just above on the schedule I had guessed (~2x the length of a normal release cycle, counting from FCS2 since FCS3 wasn't that big an update). Now a bunch of people are freaking out because they didn't have realistic expectations with respect to how plausible it was that a 1.0 release of a new app would be an immediate drop-in replacement for a 12 year-old app.

We now know from what Apple has told Philip Hodgetts and David Pogue on the record that Apple is not unaware of what they left out of the first release of FCP X and is working to fill in the more important gaps.

The entire case in favor of the "Apple doesn't care about pros" narrative, based on the latest available information, basically boils down to "Apple is acting like Apple". Seriously. Every complaint about FCP X -- that it shipped before having the full feature set everyone wanted, that Apple hasn't presented a roadmap, that it sacrifices compatibility in favor of innovation -- is just how Apple works and has worked for at least the entire Steve Jobs era. Examples of all of these abound, including with respect to products Apple manifestly does care about, a lot. There is simply no need to invoke an additional "And Apple doesn't care about pros anymore" explanation for any of Apple's behavior with respect to FCP X.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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John Chay
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:05:15 pm

I think the biggest thing that has people upset is pulling CS3 all together and forcing everyone into FCPX. If they would have just kept CS3 and allowed people to gradually transition into FCPX when it was ready for Professional Post work then you wouldn't see the outrage.




http://www.john-chay.com

Editor/Videographer


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Chris Kenny
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:13:15 pm

[John Chay] "I think the biggest thing that has people upset is pulling CS3 all together and forcing everyone into FCPX. If they would have just kept CS3 and allowed people to gradually transition into FCPX when it was ready for Professional Post work then you wouldn't see the outrage."

I kind of doubt you wouldn't see the outrage, since as I noted the "Apple doesn't care about pros" fear-mongering had basically a two year head-start on Apple even announcing FCP X, and it really kicked into high gear after the SuperMeet, well before anyone knew about Apple's plans for FCS3.

In any event, Apple should have left FCS3 on sale, I think, but in practice it probably won't be that hard for people to get copies.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Dan Stewart
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:37:02 pm

There was suspicion because of Apple's shady behaviour. It kicked into high gear after the supermeet because some people here aren't dumb.



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Chris Kenny
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:49:54 pm

[Dan Stewart] "There was suspicion because of Apple's shady behaviour."

Could you explain what that means, specifically?

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Greg Burke
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 7:51:33 pm

I think its pretty Obvious, that apple Isn't Targeting "US" anymore. I mean features were left out because apple didn't think it was necessary to include them, Claiming FCP 7 project Files dont have enough data to go into FCP X yet iMovie project files dO?. I mean its foolish to think that they will change, apple "does no wrong" in there eyes. and its "There way, or the highway" attitude.

I currently own a 8-Core 2.26ghz, I spent my a Good chunk of my savings buying it, and my next Phone, Tower and Laptop will be PC, Apples not targeting creatives anymore. They're doing what nintendo did. and who can blame them? They're just greedy pigs.


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Jason Myres
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:12:51 pm

Chris, Definitely need to buy you a beer some day.

Great post.

JM


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Peter Blumenstock
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:19:53 pm

I agree with you on most points, and let's leave the whole drama of what this app is, what it could have been, what it might be one day outside. What baffles me is that there is a pretty large group of users who fed Apple money and dedication for years - angry, disillusioned, fearful, worried about their businesses and livelihoods. Wether justified or not, that's how people obviously feel.
And all that Apple can come up with is... silence. The only semi-official statement is via a FCP instructor quoting from an email exchange he had with some of their developers. It may be the Apple way of doing things but I seriously cannot see any other company in the world that would behave that way or could get away with this. That's pretty poor, on a human level.


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Chris Kenny
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:58:51 pm

[Peter Blumenstock] "And all that Apple can come up with is... silence."

There's no open letter from Steve Jobs on the Apple web site, but Apple has had product managers talking to people like Hodgetts, Pogue, and Jordan about future plans. People just aren't listening, or they're so firmly determined to see everything through the "Apple doesn't care about pros" lens that they're trying to poke holes in what Apple has said to these folks.

Incidentally, releasing information about future products like this is quite unusual for Apple. It should be taken as a sign that Apple is well aware of the perception problem.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Ben Scott
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:33:57 pm

shut up and figure out what openCL and other core mac OSX technologies bring to the table

this is painful having to watch people with little knowledge of how the OS works comment on what is missing, especially when they keep claiming they are such professionals.

if you knew your stuff you wouldnt be mentioning CUDA


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Michel Gallone
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:50:15 pm

OpenCl is sadly way inferior to CUDA, as you might know.

It all comes down to speed, real time processing for each client

The reality again: Large facilities still rely on LINUX based applications, and appropriate rendering solutions and real time processing.

I do not rule Macs out totally in the future, the fact is that current PC solutions are more adequate for Premier and Media composer...

Michel Gallone
Sowatt Music sàrl
Music Post and Shooting
http://sowattmusic.com


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Chris Kenny
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:21:34 pm

[Michel Gallone] "OpenCl is sadly way inferior to CUDA, as you might know."

OpenCL's performance is nearly on par with CUDA's, and overall rendering engine performance between, say, Premiere Pro and FCP X can't be meaningfully determined entirely on that basis.

What was Apple supposed to do, anyway? As an NVIDIA-only solution, CUDA would have been a terrible idea for FCP X. Apple needs the option to choose graphics vendors for its hardware; it would be extremely awkward if every time they chose Intel or ATI for a given model generation, it meant those machines couldn't run Final Cut.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Rich uber
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 24, 2011 at 7:42:36 pm

If history is our guide (the antenna debacle, the patent troll suing apps store developers) when things go wrong, Apple usually says nothing official until they have thought it through. Usually around 10 days or so, they come out with a definitive statement, of what the problems are, what they will do to fix it, the timeline for fixing it, and what remedies they currently have for the purchasers of the product/software. We might not like what we hear, but we will get a response and know where we stand.

As for hardware, The last feature I cut was using Avid on a Mac Pro, and it worked quit well. I have multiple Mac Pros running Avid MC 5.5 and Final Cut Studio, and 1 of them is now running just Windows 7 and is rock solid.

I have had an uptick in people asking me to train them on Avid... that perhaps is a knee jerk reaction to all the negative comments about X


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Adam Claude Jones
Re: NEXT debate: Hardware... Should we all move to PC running Linux or W7???
on Jun 25, 2011 at 1:33:21 am

If only Da Vinci would offer Resolve for Windows now. :(


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