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Walter Soyka
Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 6:35:26 am

With all the angst over Creative Cloud, and with the general impression that CC is just a new way to charge for CS, I think some good ideas in CC are being left out of the conversation.

Have you read Adobe's open letter on Creative Cloud [link]? It's not a roadmap per se, but it does describe the development philosophy behind Creative Cloud. (I swiped its title for this thread.)

I'll excerpt a few paragraphs:

"We believe that the creative process is going through dramatic changes. As our world becomes more connected and mobile, we have grander aspirations for how we create and interact with others.

Today’s tools and services are not living up to the creative community’s expectations. Assets are difficult to track across computers. Mobile devices aren’t integrated tightly enough into creative activities. There is a continuous struggle to find effective ways to collaborate. And creative processes do not fully embrace the benefits of the broader creative community.

As the world changes, so must the tools and services we use to create. This presents a unique opportunity to re-imagine the creative process..."

"Our plans for Creative Cloud are much greater than the applications themselves. Our vision is to remove friction from the creative process and make it more productive and connected.

Today at Adobe MAX we unveiled the next step of this vision. We announced the next generation of our creative applications — with hundreds of new features — and demonstrated how the applications are deeply integrated with a host of new services within Creative Cloud."



What's your first impression of their stated vision?

Personally, I am seeing the problems they identify. Creative Suite has handled the problem of working by myself on my own machine pretty well, but there's a lot of room for improvement in working with others and across multiple devices.

I like the idea of moving beyond standalone products. That's been the standard model of computing since the pre-Internet era, but obviously we have technologies and approaches to problem-solving today that we didn't have when these apps were first conceived decades ago. I'm really intrigued by the possibilities of mixing products with services and of designing new features with connection in mind.

I know the above is not very concrete, and I imagine these concepts will take a couple iterations to bear fruit (just as Creative Suite did), but I think this vision very innovative and exciting, and I'm really interested to see where this goes.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Mark Dobson
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 7:10:15 am

[Walter Soyka] ""Our plans for Creative Cloud are much greater than the applications themselves. Our vision is to remove friction from the creative process and make it more productive and connected."

Seems like they are creating a whole lot of friction right now.

Whichever way you look at it this whole CC enterprise is to do with creating a sound business base for Adobe and corralling their customers into a neat line of grateful supplicants.

Any more lofty sentiment towards the future of the creative process are negated by an unfair and topdown approach to their customer base.

"Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose"


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 7:31:37 am

I'm afraid we are heading towards a gilded cage / walled garden ecosystem problem where Adobe (Adobe Anywhere in conjunction with CC), Avid (Interplay Sphere) and presumably Apple down the line are all coming up with ways to better connect users and integrate products at the expense of letting users easily (relatively speaking) share information across platforms. I know this isn't a new problem but I feel like as companies integrate more collaborative and metadata-centric features into their workflows the wider the chasm will become.




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Walter Soyka
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 7:54:08 am

[Mark Dobson] "Whichever way you look at it this whole CC enterprise is to do with creating a sound business base for Adobe and corralling their customers into a neat line of grateful supplicants. Any more lofty sentiment towards the future of the creative process are negated by an unfair and topdown approach to their customer base. "

I guess you see what you look for.

Let me give a couple examples (with thanks to Alex Gerulaitis) of business-critical categories that were traditionally handled by perpetually licensed products, but where customers are now choosing the services versions instead because they see real benefits.

Google Apps for Business. Forget Outlook and Exchange or a regular mail server. Gmail can do server-side filtering. It can handle sync services to your device. Third-party developers can hook into the platform to integrate their cloud-based apps into your email. It's got some of the best spam filtering in the industry, because it can track spam in real time as it goes out to a zillion users.

Salesforce. ACT! and Goldmine used to dominate CRM. How did Salesforce win? Easier scalability and collaboration within a company. Mobile access. Third-party APIs for extension (hook Salesforce and Gmail together!). Better security than most small organizations can muster on their own. Automated updates.

QuickBooks Online. What's more important to a business than their books? Easy multi-user access. Invoices/sales receipt automation. Delayed customer billing. Automatic daily bank transaction imported. Accept credit cards on your mobile phone or tablet. Third-party extension (hook QuickBooks Online to Salesforce, which is hooked to your Gmail!).

These are all "cloud-only" features by their nature, enabled by connectivity and impossible to do on the desktop alone, and many businesses have found them valuable enough to drop their old desktop products.

They're also all examples of dominant players in their niches who are nonetheless continuously improving their products, keeping prices stable, allowing third-party access, and making sure customers can interchange their own data.

I'm interested to see what the class of cloud-only benefits by nature for creative pros could be. I don't mind at all if CC is better for Adobe if it's also better for me.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Mark Dobson
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 9:02:00 am

[Walter Soyka] "They're also all examples of dominant players in their niches who are nonetheless continuously improving their products, keeping prices stable, allowing third-party access, and making sure customers can interchange their own data.

I'm interested to see what the class of cloud-only benefits by nature for creative pros could be. I don't mind at all if CC is better for Adobe if it's also better for me."


I appreciate where you are coming from Walter. Could the quote above be applied to FCPX and Apple or the App store?

Are we talking about what you call things? Could the App store have been called the Creative Cloud App store?

I think that Adobe products are truly brilliant it's only this new business model I object too.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 2:43:15 pm

[Mark Dobson] "I appreciate where you are coming from Walter. Could the quote above be applied to FCPX and Apple or the App store? Are we talking about what you call things? Could the App store have been called the Creative Cloud App store?"

I don't think they're the same. That's kind of the point of my post here. This looks like something new.

The App Store is a cloud-based delivery mechanism for products. Creative Cloud is about added a service component to the products we're using. The examples of new possibilities at the MAX conference keynote were allowing third-party API access to Adobe image processing, and building in live community-driven elements like Kuler, and cloud-based rendering. The possibilities do open up when add connectivity.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 12:52:42 pm

[Walter Soyka] "... customers are now choosing the services versions instead because they see real benefits."

Walter,

That's the crux of it, isn't it? Being able to choose.

I appreciate a statement of vision to a point, but I don't have much to say about it until they have something concrete to offer that I can evaluate.

Being corralled into a "promise of things to come" feels like marketing to me, not anything real.

Franz.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 2:47:12 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "I appreciate a statement of vision to a point, but I don't have much to say about it until they have something concrete to offer that I can evaluate."

Isn't this rather what everyone wanted from FCPX? A broad idea of where Apple wanted to take it?

I think Adobe did learn from the FCPX fiasco. They are offering CS6 indefinitely. They're talking in broad strokes about the future of their offering.

On the other hand, maybe they didn't learn. They changed something that people liked because they seem to believe they could make it better. Can't do that!

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 11:41:27 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Isn't this rather what everyone wanted from FCPX?"

Walter,

You're uncharacteristically talking in generalities.

I have no idea "what everyone wanted", nor do I think you do.

I think road maps are generally received well, if that's what you mean. Neither Apple nor Adobe have presented anything like a road map - a few feature announcements do not a road map make, and "vision statements" are usually just so much marketing.

[Walter Soyka] "They changed something that people liked because they seem to believe they could make it better."

I think you have several weeks of discussion to refer to if you wish to see how new features have been received generally.

You're making cartoonish generalizations.

Franz.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 10, 2013 at 12:27:00 am

[Franz Bieberkopf] "You're uncharacteristically talking in generalities. I have no idea "what everyone wanted", nor do I think you do."

Fair, Franz. Please forgive my sloppy writing.

I was referring to the general consensus which I thought emerged here on this forum. Obviously you are correct that there was no unanimity, but many seemed to want Apple to continue offering FCP7 while selling FCPX, and many seemed to want to know what Apple planned to include or exclude from FCPX.


[Franz Bieberkopf] "Neither Apple nor Adobe have presented anything like a road map - a few feature announcements do not a road map make, and "vision statements" are usually just so much marketing."

I agree there's no roadmap, but I disagree that there's no value in vision statements.

There's obviously a design philosophy expressed in software like FCPX and Creative Suite. If there's that vision statement is a description of a new philosophy that will inform a new development for Creative Cloud going forward, I think that's worth discussing.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Herb Sevush
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 10, 2013 at 2:39:05 am

[Walter Soyka] "QuickBooks Online. What's more important to a business than their books? Easy multi-user access. Invoices/sales receipt automation. Delayed customer billing. Automatic daily bank transaction imported. Accept credit cards on your mobile phone or tablet. Third-party extension (hook QuickBooks Online to Salesforce, which is hooked to your Gmail!)."

Of course Intuit managed to offer this without scuttling Quickbooks perpetual license, which is what I use since neither my accountant nor myself needs the online service. Funny how I think Intuit is doing a great job offering you what you need, and me what I need. I wonder how they manage to do it?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Walter Soyka
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 10, 2013 at 3:02:13 am

[Herb Sevush] "Funny how I think Intuit is doing a great job offering you what you need, and me what I need. I wonder how they manage to do it?"

By splitting their development resources across two products -- something which Adobe has apparently decided not to do. Maybe that means you have to chose something else.

If there were a perpetual license plus subscription plan, I'd choose that. If there's not, I'll be ok with this. As I said above, I think that adding connectivity will enable development of new features we couldn't get with products alone.

Others may make different decisions. I respect that. I just hate to see all discussion of the benefits of the new model totally drowned out by hysteria over the downsides of the new model (which I certainly acknowledge).

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 10, 2013 at 3:23:03 am

[Walter Soyka] "By splitting their development resources across two products -- something which Adobe has apparently decided not to do. Maybe that means you have to chose something else."

Walter,

That's just weird. You've just argued that Intuit are (or will be) in financial trouble because of their distribution model. And you have nothing to back that up.

This CC thing has you crazy.

Franz.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 10, 2013 at 6:52:06 am

[Walter Soyka] "By splitting their development resources across two products -- something which Adobe has apparently decided not to do."

[Franz Bieberkopf] "Walter, That's just weird. You've just argued that Intuit are (or will be) in financial trouble because of their distribution model. And you have nothing to back that up."

Franz, please re-read what I wrote. You're putting words in my mouth. I said nothing of the sort, I implied nothing of the sort, and I believe nothing of the sort.

I simply said that Intuit are splitting their development resources across two products, which is demonstrably true, and that Adobe made a different choice for themselves, which is also demonstrably true.

I believe that both models can succeed in general, and I believe that Intuit will be just fine specifically.


[Franz Bieberkopf] "This CC thing has you crazy."

This CC thing has me frustrated.

I see people clinging to an illusion of security with shiny discs and perpetual licenses -- never mind that the idea of "ownership" of software went out the window thirty-plus years ago or that they're still dependent on activation servers in the cloud for install. I see people in business for themselves arguing that it's borderline immoral for a company to make money on their products. I see people arguing that subscription is evil because it robs you of control of your own work product, then turning around and recommending a cheaper subscription solution. I see people who just spent thousands of dollars proving they could switch from one product or platform to another argue that the possibility of spending $20 at some indefinite point in the future on recovering a legacy project would be impossibly constrictive and utterly beyond the pale.

Most importantly, I see something new here with really enormous transformative potential, and I feel like nearly everyone else is so fixated on how or why the licensing model is different that they're missing how or why the offering itself is different.

Connectivity and mobility are forces that are changing every industry they touch, so why are so many here arguing to ignore them? Having Internet access sounded non-sensical in 1993, but now in 2013, can you imagine being without it? How many IP addresses did you have in 1993? How many do you have today?

That's the kind of potential I think the ideas behind Creative Cloud could have in our little niche, but I can't get anyone to discuss anything behind this knee-jerk "Adobe is out to get me" reaction. I can't get anyone to stop and consider the possibility that maybe there's a positive customer outcome here, and that even though it's different than anything we've known, maybe CC can be win-win.

Yet I keep trying. Maybe I am crazy.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris Harlan
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 10, 2013 at 7:50:35 am

[Walter Soyka] "Yet I keep trying. Maybe I am crazy."

Hey, I'm pretty much with you, though I do feel the subconscious pull the other way, as well. I think the time for what you want to talk about isn't quite here yet. This is one of those moments where people's survival instincts are kicking in--the reaction is almost physical--and you've got to let folks stand down a bit before going where you want to go.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 10, 2013 at 8:40:05 am

Okay, Walter. I'm going to step out on this ledge with you.

If I look with rose-colored glasses, and disarm my defense mechanisms, it occurs to me that when tools have properly matured, we may actually want to discourage further rapid change to them--change for change's sake--and only have them finessed, varied, and perfected, with occasional bursts of growth. In the traditional model, change drives the purchase cycles, and in immature products, this can be terrific. Improvements drive sales. But, at a certain point of maturity, it becomes change simply to drive sales. Fashion begins to replace functionality, and whole, useful structures can be tossed away--maybe have to be tossed away--to support sales. Yes. Sometimes those new structures can truly be useful, or better, but they can also be simply different, and worse.

So, what about this rent or tithe model? Could it actually be worth paying people to oversee a giant, complicated tool farm--to keep it healthy and clean, move it forward, polish the links and lenses, and help us easily navigate its labyrinthian mass of interconnected programs. Could this become a giant public tool, a worldwide art machine--with a library, supply rooms, research centers, and technicians permanently onsite responding to requests and constantly adding things bit by bit? Maybe rental is the wrong word. Maybe it really is membership. And, maybe it is truly worthwhile paying for a membership in something like that.
The more I think about it, the more I think it really could be. When I look at it that way, I even get excited about it. Yes, there are pitfalls and potential ugliness, but I'm going to think along these lines for awhile, and see where that takes me.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 10, 2013 at 1:08:28 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Franz, please re-read what I wrote. You're putting words in my mouth. I said nothing of the sort, I implied nothing of the sort, and I believe nothing of the sort."

Walter,

Yes, I see that I misinterpreted you. Apologies.

I have no doubt you'll find many who share your optimism.

Franz.


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 7:15:38 am

Sounds very nice, but at the end it's very 1984 with big brother controlling everything you do, the weird thing is that they present it like "freedom" while in reality you'll become caged in their ecosystem, kinda like The Matrix, we're now pumping them power.

To be honest, I don't like the whole cloud concept overall.


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 7:50:21 am

I wouldn't mind the cloud subscription based model, if I was able to choose which parts of their software park I want to pay for. Just doesn't seem fair that the annual fee almost doubles in comparison with the old box subscription model.

Yes I know that if I stop paying it will render my software useless. But I have already learnt the lesson from Apple, and from now on always save an XML along with the project file.

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Chris Harlan
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 8:20:21 am

[Walter Soyka] "Our plans for Creative Cloud are much greater than the applications themselves. Our vision is to remove friction from the creative process and make it more productive and connected.
"


I tend to like the vision when its hammered out by a standards community like SMPTE or SBE. It can be a bit Borgish when a single entity wants to be the entire process. On the other hand, the slow to sometimes non-existant pacing of standards committees can make simple decisions seem to take a lifetime.

Frankly, I think it makes me much less uncomfortable to think that Adobe just wants to find a way to lock in revenue--which I entirely understand--than to believe they truly want to become the central architecture, plumbing and nervous system for artistic creation in the 21st Century. That notion really scares me.


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Steve Connor
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 10:29:16 am

[Chris Harlan] "to believe they truly want to become the central architecture, plumbing and nervous system for artistic creation in the 21st Century. That notion really scares me."

Never going to happen

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Chris Harlan
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 2:16:27 pm

[Steve Connor] "[Chris Harlan] "to believe they truly want to become the central architecture, plumbing and nervous system for artistic creation in the 21st Century. That notion really scares me."

Never going to happen
"


I'm not saying it is. I'm just responding to Walter's question.


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Bill Davis
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 8:28:06 am

Not sure if this is the thread you referenced below, Walter. But here's my take anyway.

I think Adobe's announcement is a little bit their version of the Apple X announcement just 18 months later. Actually, about 5+ years later (for reasons I'll mumble about below)

Adobe now says they have to change because the "industry is changing" - which is "duh" worthy for everybody.

But still true.

Apple clearly saw the changing nature of the industry and the fact that the old processes (which traditional NLE software was built around) were going to NEED to change.

I just think Apple saw how MUCH change would be needed, and they saw it earlier. About 5 years earlier. I think that jump was driven by internal Apple understanding of two factors. The continual increase in computing power in smaller and smaller and more affordable packages (where they were a domnant player). And the continual rise of the connected world with everyone who has access to first world technology accepting the need to continue to base both their work, social and personal lives around connected tools. (Apple never really missed the internet like, say MS) And while Adobe didn't either, their core products (Type, Photoshop, AE, etc while benefiting from connectivity don't really depend on them like the general computing game Apple and MS have always needed to play)

We can't know for sure, but it's likely Randy U and the team vetted some of the basic concept code on would would become FCP-X in the iMovie 08 update in the summer of 2007. Particularly range selection. Yeah, thats probably part of what caused some of the "iMovie Pro" mess, but without real world test opportunities, how does one actually re-invent stuff that masses of people are likely to need to rely on?

If that's accurate, then they were stockpiling both concepts and perhaps even code nearly six years ago.

In parallel, you have the OS-X transition happening. And Moores Law continuing apace.

OSX was years settling in place and seeing the jettsoning of QT and the rise of the Core Services and AV Foundation packages.

So X was being imagined in a stew of change.

But I thinking literally ALL of this was a reflection of Apple (and likely SJ at the time) being able to imagine the huge changes coming.

Adobe also at least somewhat "re-imagined" their NLE - but always with an eye towards keeping the same primary A/B roll on a horizontal timeline with discrete clips tied to absolute time - concepts. And never really re-imagined many of the fundamentals of the software - but worked VERY hard to make it modern and to take advantage of the new horsepower and new GPU power that was coming on line for Pro Class general computing. Why? Because their core competency isn't general computing, it's software. Excellent software, but pertty much software built around the design and graphics industries. They are NOT a hardware company at all.

I'm ignorant of their product lines, and I could be way off base, but I remember people calling revs of Premier, PShop, After Effects, etc. "GREAT" And FAST and have COOL NEW FEATURES but I never remember anyone ever describing any of the work as "Game Changing." Again that might be my ignorance. But it's what I recall as an interested outside listener.

So fast forward to today.

What I heard this week is that Adobe thinks the entire game is changing and so it's time for new ways of doing things. It's time to break from the past. Re-invent the industry and workflows and how things get done. Their PR effort is wrapping that in "collaboration" - but I'm a bit confused by that. I can see where their products are ripe for "approval loop collaboration" since they're used in so many creative shops where oversight and approvals are critical. But I'm not sure I see the typical Adobe Photoshop or Lightroom or After Effects user needing the actual production work to be collaborative. It seems to me that from the design of an ad to photo retouching and beyond, these are pretty much expressions of individual creative will. Not so much team sports.

Video editing is different at a large production level. It can be very much a team sport. Often the person working on the video of Project A is different from the person responsible for the audio, so too the color grading and the promo edits and a bunch of other things.

So I'm curious about what parts of the "creative workflow" Adobe envisions migrating to the cloud? With "stream size creep" firmly happening and 4k and 8k on the horizon, collaborative work with FOOTAGE - which is what could help a video type - seems a bit suspect. So Proxies in the cloud shared between editors? Maybe. But if so, then my worry would be if they enable video resources to live in the cloud, then theres absolutely nothing to stop a footage owner from hiring and firing editors at will - since the progress is baked into the cloud version. If Bob the editors gets pissy, just call June and give her the corporate codes to "cloud project" so she can dive in and pick up right where Bob left off - a concept that troubles me since it makes the editor even more a "temp player" rather than a core employee. And that seems a bit scary.

If the "cloud" target is just versioning and approvals - then it's all just Metadata - and I think Apple has a nice head start since they have their own cloud (iCloud) a sweet metadata friendly NLE (X) and a history of making their bank off solving problems with hardware/software combinations rather than exclusively software licensing models.

After all, they shut down their only real "license" model - iWeb quite a while back. And they appear to be more comfortable with a business model where they encourage demand purchases driven by innovation, rather than contractual billing like the electric company.

Apple is strong. Adobe is strong. But they are two VERY different companies. Apple has always been about innovation and creating hardware and software in the same place to work in harmony.

Adobe has actually ALWAYS been about licensing if you think about it. John Warnock and Charles Geschke originally built the company on the idea of licensing PostScript to printer manufacturers.

So they're kinda just working back towards their roots here, and I think Apple continues to do pretty much the same.

So far, Apple has been comparatively much stronger at the long game. We'll see in this iteration.

Those are my initial thoughts, anyway.

FWIW.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Paul Neumann
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 10:52:09 am

The Creative Suite is so much more than editing/effects and now even so much more than just image creation/manipulation. And so is Adobe. In another comparison to Apple I'd liken whatever product(s) you use and Adobe Creative Cloud to the iPod and the App Store/iTunes. The former is the vehicle and the latter is the ultimate destination.

There's a lot of good stuff in there that you didn't even know you wanted or needed. That's the definition of innovation.


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 1:26:28 pm

Somewhere in all the poetic speak about the future of creative there is a business model. The marketing language is what we hear, but underlying it has to be a broader plan....one that steers users to adopt Adobe's model, rather than just shopping for the right software tool and purchasing it to use as long as you like.

We use Production Premium but Illustrator gets used very little in our work. Actually AE is the workhorse here, and Photoshop.

How about a cloud version of AE and Photoshop with an Illustrator "lite" for, say $9.00/month? I might bite.

But as you can see there is no one size fits all and Adobe is betting that there is.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Mark Suszko
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 2:13:27 pm

What I see here is an opportunity for Apple to make some inroads on Adobe by capitalizing on the turmoil, hurt feelings, resentment and suspicion of the Adobe users who are ambivalent about the new licensing model. "Pay ONCE and OWN your tool. OR rent it per use - your choice"

If Apple offered a less heavy-handed approach to the licensing and payments than Adobe, it might woo back a number of those they chased off with the introduction of FCPx. Though I don't really expect Apple to do this. More like they're slapping their foreheads and saying "We should have done that before Adobe!"

This I think is also going to give collaborative, third-party alternative app developers a small boost, as the real iconoclast users go looking for something with fewer strings attached.

And yes, you will see massive bootlegging and piracy directed against Adobe now, on a scale never before seen. The pirates will justify these "work-arounds" to themselves in terms of freedom from monopoly domination, or other high-handed rhetoric. But the new fun game for the script kiddies "sticking it to the corporate man" will become this week's hack of the C-cloud, an asymmetrical war of attrition Adobe will have to fight every day.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 4:04:49 pm

[Mark Suszko] "f Apple offered a less heavy-handed approach to the licensing and payments than Adobe, it might woo back a number of those they chased off with the introduction of FCPx. Though I don't really expect Apple to do this. More like they're slapping their foreheads and saying "We should have done that before Adobe!"

The reason I think Adobe did this now is that having both subscription and rental licenses complicates the situation a lot. A key selling point about the substitution is that upgrades can be easily rolled out at any time. You no longer have to force all the separate software departs to artificially meet the same deadlines so that the suite can be upgraded all at once. Having subscription users get upgrades and updates before perpetual license users would cause more versioning problems in the user base than Adobe already has but if you keep everyone locked into the same annual upgrade cycle you don't take full advantage of what CC has to offer. Rock and a hard place situation and Adobe chose to just bite the bullet now.


And yes, you will see massive bootlegging and piracy directed against Adobe now, on a scale never before seen. The pirates will justify these "work-arounds" to themselves in terms of freedom from monopoly domination, or other high-handed rhetoric. But the new fun game for the script kiddies "sticking it to the corporate man" will become this week's hack of the C-cloud, an asymmetrical war of attrition Adobe will have to fight every day."


I would honestly be surprised if there was a significant increase in piracy. People that pirated before are still going to pirate and people running legit businesses are either going to pay for CC or stick w/CS6 for the time being. There have been cracks to the 30-day demo for years so I wouldn't imagine cracking the demo versions of the new CC apps so they run indefinitely would be any harder.




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Shawn Miller
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 4:19:17 pm

[Mark Suszko] "What I see here is an opportunity for Apple to make some inroads on Adobe by capitalizing on the turmoil, hurt feelings, resentment and suspicion of the Adobe users..."

Maybe for FCPX... maybe, but what about the rest of the suite? Seriously, how many creative professionals don't depend on at least one Adobe application? Adobe seems hard to escape at the moment.

[Mark Suszko] "Though I don't really expect Apple to do this. More like they're slapping their foreheads and saying "We should have done that before Adobe!""

lol - I think a few companies are watching this with a lot of interest. I hope I'm wrong... but I think SAS is the way of the future. I think only smaller, open source developers will continue to offer perpetual licensing of software. I hope I'm wrong about that.

Shawn


Shawn



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Chris Harlan
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 4:34:26 pm

[Shawn Miller] "ol - I think a few companies are watching this with a lot of interest. I hope I'm wrong... but I think SAS is the way of the future. I think only smaller, open source developers will continue to offer perpetual licensing of software. I hope I'm wrong about that.
"


Sadly, I think you're right, and that is what is actually bugging me about this whole thing. I'm okay with the model for Adobe--I'd prefer the choice be there, but I'm okay with it--but I don't like the notion of everything going this way. It might be unavoidable, but there it is.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 4:57:04 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Sadly, I think you're right, and that is what is actually bugging me about this whole thing. I'm okay with the model for Adobe--I'd prefer the choice be there, but I'm okay with it--but I don't like the notion of everything going this way. It might be unavoidable, but there it is."

Isn't part of this because that the server technology is actually available and cheap enough to operate and these relatively massive scales?

Jeremy


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Shawn Miller
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 9, 2013 at 5:11:37 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "[Chris Harlan] "Sadly, I think you're right, and that is what is actually bugging me about this whole thing. I'm okay with the model for Adobe--I'd prefer the choice be there, but I'm okay with it--but I don't like the notion of everything going this way. It might be unavoidable, but there it is."

Isn't part of this because that the server technology is actually available and cheap enough to operate and these relatively massive scales?

Jeremy"


Absolutely. IMO, the real winners in this brave new world of connected, service oriented architectures are (in no particular order); Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Intel and HP. :-)

Shawn



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Herb Sevush
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on May 10, 2013 at 3:25:02 am

[Walter Soyka] "What's your first impression of their stated vision? "

Honestly I don't get it. The problem for me with interoperability between remote partners is shared assets, not shared applications. I have no problems now sharing project files or reviewing projects with remote partners in Boston, San Fran and NYC from my suburban Westchester home studio. What slows down my collaborative process is sharing 13 Terrabytes of assets with these partners. I don't see what CC is doing to help me with that.

The vision statement sounded like a bunch of vague hokum, there wasn't anything there that seemed compelling. But I'm just an old editor, my needs are very specific and quite simple, so maybe it was just beyond me. What isn't beyond me are features like integrated closed captioning in PPro 7 or automated rotoscoping in AE that I could actually make some money with. But " Our vision is to remove friction from the creative process and make it more productive and connected" - that sounds like a used car salesman trying to sell me smoke.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Kleo Morgan
Re: Creative Cloud and the future of the creative process
on Aug 12, 2013 at 9:05:42 am

Really, as for me CC looks as just a way to ease the licensing and updates for Adobe (and for us?).
Premiere for me is a software able to work with RAW footage and use CUDA. New CC uses multiple GPUs so I'm going to benefit from that, but sharing projects stucks in a RAW footage problem, because I need to convert all my footage to proxies reconnect them and only after I can use cloud to share the "prproj". And after all how would we collect all the RAWs for final output if different parts of the team add their OWN RAW (as proxies) to our team's project?

So, again, so far CC looks as just a way to ease the licensing and updates for Adobe (and for us?)

______________________
Kleo Morgan
Video/Photo Retouching&Grading Professional
http://kleoshot.com


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