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Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi

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John Davidson
Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 8, 2013 at 11:14:46 pm

There are so many competing philosophies going on regarding the cloud issue popping up. As a relative early adopter of FCPX, Apple fanboi, etc., maybe some of you will consider these thoughts interesting.

First, yes, I'm taking a little pleasure out of this. No sense in lying about that!

Second, we have Creative Cloud as well as CS6 Production Premium. Will this affect us massively? No. Eventually the Production Premium will be put to pasture because the hassle of bouncing between CS7 and whatever system we have that runs CS6 will be more annoying than de-authorizing and re-authorizing systems. That authorize annoyance will become a larger pain in our butt over time, especially because we don't use Adobe applications as much as we used to. Our primary applications are AE, PS, and Illustrator. AE is the main one we use, and even then it's just occasionally.

So we'll be paying for a whole suite of applications, the majority we don't want or need. We don't use the bulk of new features that have come out in the applications over the years. We will always have to pay whatever Adobe charges because we get graphics packages from networks that are all built in AE. There's just no way around it.

Back in the day it felt like buying into Adobe was like a date. You could go out once a year and buy her the lobster dinner and every year she'd always dress up and keep you interested. This is more like a shotgun wedding - with a promise that she'll always keep you entertained. Maybe. I have a few divorced friends who would be pretty skeptical about that.

I don't like renting or leasing. It's a method of financial servitude, but we don't have a choice now.

And then there's FCPX and Motion. While everyone has been has been clamoring about for everything but X, it's been right there in the App store, installed on every mac I own, working away for a year now. It's gotten upgrades. It works with our cameras and AJA/Blackmagic products. It's incorporated with our media browser for quick access to all photos and music on each system. We've figured out how to get the most out of it. And the reason we don't use AE as much is because we've been able to take network pre-rendered graphics (logos, transitions, end pages, etc) that we used to have to work with in After Effects, and incorporated those graphics in Motion. These graphics are editable themed generators and titles that show up in FCPX natively. Need to access the end page for network XYZ? Click the XYZ generator theme in FCPX, drag it in, and there's an editable layer we used to have to jump into AE to create. Done.

With FCPX I can navigate the land mines of running a small business, paying employees, freelancers, overhead, etc - without having to be reminded that something needs to be authorized, seeing a monthly bill, or even having to dig through plugin websites, because we make most of our own in motion. There are so many little hassles that get in the way of just being creative - FCPX is helping us avoid them.

If you are a parent and want to give your graduating child an edit system, would you rather buy that child an application they can always access and keep on their mac, or a monthly credit card bill for life?

I wish that in all the new features and presentations Adobe announced we could have gotten an announcement that Creative Cloud will also bring all plugins from Red Giant, FX Factory, etc., into the Adobe updater so that when you update your Adobe software, the plugins update as well. I'm not partial, I want this from Apple, too. It would also be nice if Mac systems got more love from the CUDA gods, and even nicer still if when you pre-render in AE, that playback was rock solid, real time. If Adobe really wanted to woo me, they'd have a Production Premium version of Cloud for $29, with an additional $10 per month, per seat. Wouldn't that be something?

I'm glad that many people have found joy with Premiere. Competition is a good thing for all of us. I'm hoping that Apple and Adobe both start upping the ante and really scrapping for the love. That said, I'm glad I'm with Apple and that we're a year into FCPX. We have gotten past the initial hurdle of being confused by the software and are really starting to 'explore the space'. We're teetering very closely to 10.1. I'm pretty excited to see what that brings.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Cameron Clendaniel
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 12:07:33 am

For an incredibly expansive suite of software that has a great track record, for people that are presumably making a living off of it I don't understand the angst over $50/month.

Cameron Clendaniel
Film Editor, NYC
718-254-8027
cam@camclendaniel.com
http://www.camclendaniel.com



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Gary Huff
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 12:10:34 am

[Cameron Clendaniel] "For an incredibly expansive suite of software that has a great track record, for people that are presumably making a living off of it I don't understand the angst over $50/month."

It's because after, say, two years and $1200, if you stop paying monthly, you have nothing.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 12:19:05 am

Dead wrong - Gary -

You have all of the assets you've created with the software, whether they be .mov, .avi, .wav, .xml, the list goes on. And if you need the source files, you just fire up the old Cloud grill, and away you go...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Gary Huff
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 12:24:57 am

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Dead wrong - Gary -"

Did your hands tremble with excitement as you typed that?

I meant software...as in, you spend $1200, you lose software...not assets.

Clear?


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Gary Huff
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 12:32:35 am

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Not exactly...but there was a certain cold satisfaction from exposing you as the sly manipulator you appear to be...just twist those old words anyway you want...did you used to sell used cars, by any chance?"

Are you seriously suggesting that I'm trying to backtrack? I thought I was pretty clear on what I meant, but in case you need help, Craig echos my sentiment here:

[Craig Seeman] "With Adobe, if you end the service contract, you don't have something that works. This obviously is the peeve. Need to use it again and, at the very least, you need to rent it for a month."

I can understand people who don't care for a software subscription model because of the above. I am not personally bothered by it, as I've had a pleasant experience with Creative Cloud so far, and with Steam, which had a similar rough birth back in the day (though it's not at all a subscription-based model).

However, if trying to catch me in error gives you pleasure, please, by all means continue. I can be just as full of it as anyone from time to time. So I'm sure you're come up with something eventually. I just try really hard not to be.


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Jordan Mena
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 12:35:46 am

What worries me is that maybe after 2 years Adobe decides to raise their prices. Maybe $50 dollars to you isn't that much, but, what about $150? Also, I know plenty of post houses who's clients just don't pay on time. Budgets get tight. You could be ready to fire up the bay to deliver a spot and Oh-no. We forgot to pay our bill! It might sound stupid but how stupid would you look trying to open up an app that just won't open because you forgot to pay your bill - in front of the client.

I'll admit I use Adobe cloud now. Only because it was too expensive to pay for the bundle all at once and I liked the payment plan. But, if I had the money no way I would be in the cloud. Now, they have me.

Jordan Mena | Editor | Colorist | Producer
Los Angeles, CA
jordanmena.com


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John Davidson
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 12:45:11 am

Imagine what FCPX and Motion will be able to do in that same two year period!

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Marcus Moore
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 1:15:58 am

Let's hope Apple gives Motion some love. It's where I do most of my motion graphics as well, but it's tool set has been relatively stagnant since Motion4. But using it, it seems that there's a lot of untapped potential under the hood. And while not at Element3D levels yet, MotionVFX's alphas of mExtrude are hinting that some pretty great 3D object integration is possible.

FCPX is getting all the attention, but let's hope there's a big upgrade for Motion coming as well...



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 1:13:27 am

[Jordan Mena] "What worries me is that maybe after 2 years Adobe decides to raise their prices. Maybe $50 dollars to you isn't that much, but, what about $150"

Start looking for alternatives I guess. I mean, what else is there to do for those users concerned (and it's not an unfounded concern) that Adobe may raise the rates beyond what the user can pay. If Adobe keeps wanting to make in roads with editors they certainly can't jack up the price as long as Avid and Apple are providing competitive products (and who knows what Blackmagic's long term plans for DaVinci are).




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Bill Davis
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 3:07:19 am

I'll just note that what's happening here in the video world is a small echo compared to what I'm hearing from contacts in the professional design, page layout and advertising worlds.

In fact, my wife just came in after a discussion with a production artist who's work she's managing for an extremely large health care financing client. She said that production artist spent 15 minutes of the long distance call vending anger and worry about how this Creative Cloud move would screw up her work as a top tier freelance artist and designer.

Premier and our craft is a very small subset of what this change stands to disrupt.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 3:13:55 am

[Bill Davis] "In fact, my wife just came in after a discussion with a production artist who's work she's managing for an extremely large health care financing client. She said that production artist spent 15 minutes of the long distance call vending anger and worry about how this Creative Cloud move would screw up her work as a top tier freelance artist and designer."

This might be a stupid question but how would CC screw up her work as a top tier freelance artist and designer?




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Bill Davis
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 4:02:30 am

[Andrew Kimery] "This might be a stupid question but how would CC screw up her work as a top tier freelance artist and designer?
"


As noted, my wife's the project manager in this case working with numerous art directors, designers, production artists and other project stakeholders. Many of them are top tier freelancers.

She was on the phone with one such female designer/freelancer who expressed extreme concern that when Adobe forces users to the subscription model, she (the designer) will be forced to pay monthly whether or not she has projects she's working on or not. (she's has young kids at home and balances motherhood and her freelance career) - and specifically she mentioned wondering if Adobe goes "all subscription" - there may come a time when the software evolves to require capabilities beyond her current machine - forcing her on a machine replacement/upgrade cycle that she simply may not be in a position to fund.

I can see someone in her position getting stuck in a "my kid needs braces, and so I can't get a new computer right now, but the latest "cloud" update to my subscription software says it won't run on a machine without "capability A" and mine doesn't have that.

Having just gone though something like that with FCP-X (my original MacPro's card wasn't Open CL compatible, so it didn't want to let me install the software initially.) Thankfully I had a more modern laptop that I could switch to.

With X there was no subscription and therefore no "monthly checkin" to check the license status - so I was willing to accept that if I wanted to run X, I needed the right hardware ONCE upon installation.

But once purchased - it's at least mine to use as I see fit without anyone checking on my ownership status.

Those are the sort of issue she became concerned about when she heard about the "cloud only" initiative.

This woman is a wonderfully talented professional. She's also a relatively new mom and her skills and her access to the digital tools she needs for her professional work are intertwined. So it's not always just a working editor in a seat at a "shop" that represents the pro user.

There are lots and lots and lots of people using these tools. And I'm not sure it's smart to have a "if you're a pro - you can surely afford $50+ a month forever for licensing"

Just reporting on what happened a few hours ago in my living room when Linda walked through after her seventh phone call check in with this particular artist today.

FWIW



Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 4:35:39 am

[Bill Davis] "and specifically she mentioned wondering if Adobe goes "all subscription" - there may come a time when the software evolves to require capabilities beyond her current machine - forcing her on a machine replacement/upgrade cycle that she simply may not be in a position to fund. "

This gets at one of the big misconceptions around Creative Cloud. You still download and run the software on your own computer -- and you decide when to install updates. There are no forced updates.

A relevant FAQ entry:

As a Creative Cloud member, am I required to install an upgrade to a desktop application when it becomes available?

No. You are not required to install any new version of the desktop applications available in Creative Cloud. You can continue using your current version of the product as long as you have an active membership. You have flexibility on when you install a new release to take advantage of new product features, if you choose to do so.



Todd Kopriva has also mentioned here [link] they will be making old versions available for download, going back at least five major versions.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 5:08:40 am

Thanks for taking the time to clarifying, Bill. In the post below Walter clears up some misconceptions that pertain to your wife's colleague's fears. I think it would help easy her mind some if you were able to pass this info on to her.




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Walter Soyka
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 6:16:23 am

[Bill Davis] "She was on the phone with one such female designer/freelancer who expressed extreme concern that when Adobe forces users to the subscription model, she (the designer) will be forced to pay monthly whether or not she has projects she's working on or not."

Also, she wouldn't have to pay all the time if she didn't want to. She could choose to pay as needed. You can rent a single app for one month with no additional commitment for $20.

Get a gig that needs Photoshop? Pay $20, build the cost into the project's fee, and use it for 30 days. Whoops, you need Illustrator, too? Add it. You finish those jobs with nothing else lined up, stop paying. A job comes along next month for InDesign? $20.

I think CC is viable for freelancers, too. Before CC, she would have had to pay $1300 upfront for Creative Suite Design Standard to take on these jobs -- that's more than two years of full CC, and that doesn't get you upgrades.

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html


On a separate note, I'd be really interested to hear your take on something, Bill. Starting a new thread...

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris Kenny
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 2:59:56 am

[Cameron Clendaniel] "For an incredibly expansive suite of software that has a great track record, for people that are presumably making a living off of it I don't understand the angst over $50/month."

For folks who weren't on Master Collection, and were skipping the occasional upgrade, Creative Cloud is about twice the annual price, with no ability to skip upgrades based on how compelling the new features are, and software that stops working if you stop paying. It's hard to spin that as a great deal.

It just seems like there isn't any compromise here. Creative Cloud could have been win-win. Adobe could have looked at the average annual revenue they were getting from all Creative Suite customers (on any edition of the suite), and priced Creative Cloud say, 20% over that number. This still would have been a big win for Adobe, because it would have gotten them more evenly distributed revenue (instead of a burst when they ship each upgrade), and more annual revenue (that 20%, plus they'd be selling exclusively direct and consequently keeping the retailer's markup). It's true that they wouldn't have gotten revenue from selling non-upgrade copies, but the flip side there would have likely been additional customers — I bet a properly priced subscription would make piracy less attractive, for one thing.

This deal also would have been a huge win for customers — those who do keep pace with every Master Collection upgrade would have paid less than under the previous system. Those who historically haven't used Master Collection or kept pace with upgrades would pay more than they used to, but they'd be getting more — Master Collection + all upgrades, at a lower price than they'd have previously been able to get those things. Plus, of course, the lack of an up-front cost would have been great for new customers.

This option would have likely been so attractive that Adobe could have even continued offering the old pricing model for those who wanted it, and most people would have ended up on Creative Cloud anyway.

But instead Adobe seems to have basically sat down and said "OK, it our wildest fantasy, how would this work?" They came up with "How about if every single Creative Suite customer were on the upgrade treadmill for the most expensive edition of our suite, forever, with no way to ever get off?" And here we are.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 12:37:39 am

[John Davidson] "Second, we have Creative Cloud as well as CS6 Production Premium. Will this affect us massively? No. "

Same here. Non-issue. Our GFX guy uses AE and C4D and will continue to do so. In the meantime, the "temp" GFX I can whip up in X or Motion are often as good as what he'd do anyway, which frees him up to do stuff for the poor souls still stuck in 7 here...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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John Davidson
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 12:47:59 am

I actually have physical pain when I see 7 now. I wasn't kidding when I said I'd probably cry if I had to use it again.

Poor souls indeed.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 12:59:21 am

[John Davidson] "I actually have physical pain when I see 7 now. I wasn't kidding when I said I'd probably cry if I had to use it again.

Poor souls indeed."


Actually, I'm the poor soul. Due to the fact that others are on 7, I still have to work in it now and again. I mean, it's a fine NLE but uh... "once you've seen Paree" etc... :-/

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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John Davidson
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 1:05:12 am

You should come visit us bohemians one of these days Charlie.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 1:08:44 am

Hey, I want to come too, man.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 1:10:43 am

[Chris Harlan] "Hey, I want to come too, man."

Road Trip! How many days supplies should we put in?

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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John Davidson
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 1:21:27 am

Chris! I suck! I think I owe you an email. Pack it in fellas, and like I told my wife on our wedding day, bring lots of water and keep your expectations low :).

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 1:09:00 am

[John Davidson] "You should come visit us bohemians one of these days Charlie"

Love to. Wait... I'd have to drive over the hill to get there right?! I heard the world ends in a vast wasteland north of the Caheunga pass, is that true? ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 1:13:29 am

The pain gets worse when I'm "forced":-) to do a title in FCP 7 and I hear the producer snickering in the background.:-) It used to feel fine, but now that I'm used to the speed of X I'm starting to have anger management issues with Legacy. Even preparing tracks for export takes longer compared to Roles.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 1:53:08 am

I just want to go on record and say I love Network XYZ.

The templates must be amazing.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 2:27:12 am

Also, what is a boi?



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John Davidson
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 2:37:28 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Also, what is a boi?"

According to the latest study, the term "Fanboi" is 42% more insulting to Apple fanatics than "Fanboy".

Science!


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 2:41:27 am

So then "Fangoil" must be really over the top...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 2:47:13 am

[Joseph W. Bourke] "So then "Fangoil" must be really over the top..."

I believe the proper feminization of "fanboi" is "fangrrl". Neither should be confused with fangoy (a non-Jew that has a lot of Jewish friends).




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 2:50:08 am

This is my favorite thread on the entire Internet.

My phone capitalizes Internet for me.


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 3:05:32 am

And a Fanghoulie is a fan of Sven. Usually restricted to Chicago.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 3:21:16 am

[Jeff Markgraf] "And a Fanghoulie is a fan of Sven. Usually restricted to Chicago."

And here I thought this thread couldn't get any better.

-berwyn


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 3:05:02 am

Oh...you mean like in Batman, that great Jewish crime fighter, and the Goy Wonder.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts from an Apple Fanboi
on May 9, 2013 at 2:43:16 am

Dammit! I love science so much!


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