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My God! what has Apple done!

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David Cooke
My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 1:42:57 pm

Help. I'm hoping my Apple-FCP guru friend is wrong, but here is what I'm hearing. I work in Creative
Services dept at a large tv station. We LOVE FCP and our MACS. REst of station is PC and "problems
about-especially in NEWS editing with the AVID system.
We have just gotten approval to move our Promotions dept from Avid
to FCP system. Yeah- I think. I have heard that FCP X is NOT backwards compatible- all older projects
are DEAD-useless. A total re-learn of a new interface-now FCP X is like iMovie?- Where did the timeline
go. The nice layers, ease of use! Where is Soundtrack Pro and DVD Studio Pro updates. This is the 1st
time EVER my MAC-based friend has ever-issued the words-of possibly migrating to Adobe Premiere Pro!!! Is this overreacting? We NEVER use iMovie-interface does not seem user friendly. Seems like
"editing for dummies". Is it time for me to hang it up?
Very Concerned.

D's Video


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Reed Black
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 1:52:48 pm

That was the initial reaction for most of us but I gotta say, having read through the manual and watched videos on what IT CAN DO (haven't bought it yet) its AWESOME! Having said that it IS NOT READY to be implemented into a production environment just yet. This is coming from someone who's been editing professionally since 1996. I started on a movieola, move to a flatbed KEM, then to AVID, then to FCP. I've used FCP professionally since its started. This new version has left some things out (which I understand will be back) but for now its NOT ready for primetime but when it is BOY... its going to dominate the industry like never before. Apple made some MAJOR, MAJOR strides with his. With that, they also made some major blunders. My advice for what its worth, stay with FCP7 until this is ready BUT - if you have the opportunity and the time... start learning it now.



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Bill Dawson
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 2:42:09 pm

>This new version has left some things out (which I understand will be back)

That's the problem. If I Apple would tell us they will be back then I'm OK.
But they, as usual, will not say anything.

Bill


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 3:00:06 pm

Bill get used to Apple being silent. It's actually one of the reasons the company has 65bllion in the bank. It's served them very well to stay as secret as they famously are I think. Doesn't make it easier though.

I still think the best advise is to wait and see before you invest in a crossgrade to another platform. FCP X is just being born. FCP 1 sure wasn't ready for primetime either... Until FCP 3 most of the industry looked at it as a toy. History repeats.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


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Andrew Corneles
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 3:11:49 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "FCP 1 sure wasn't ready for primetime either... Until FCP 3 most of the industry looked at it as a toy. History repeats."

The difference is when FCP 1 came out there weren't 2million + registered users working on it, let's be serious here.


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Andrew Stone
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 3:39:16 pm

David,

You should be concerned. A TV station moving to FCP at this very moment is not a good idea and actually not possible unless you own copies of FCS for all of the seats you want to install on.

The new FCPX is a consumer app and is not remotely suited to a collaborative environment.

The best summary of all the gotchas and implications in this move from Apple can be found in Walter Biscardi and Richard Harrington's audio broadcast from a couple of days ago. It is an hour and a half long but it is worth the time investment. It really is. You can find it here...

http://podcasts2.creativecow.net/episodes/ipod/1030.mp3

Steadicam & Camera Operator


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 3:52:03 pm

Yes, Let's get real alright. I seriously doubt that FCP X 1.0 is the end of the line for FCP X... That's the point I'm trying to make. It's a 1.0 release of a new NLE just as FCP 1 was. It took Apple about 3 years to get to the point where a pro could really use it exclusively. I don't think it will take as long this time. Because for better or worse, they are not trying to reinvent the code base from the ground up nor port a PC based app (FCP 1 was originally written for PC's by Macromedia before Apple paid a measly 1M dollars for it).

The point is, this is just the beginning. If you can't wait, hold on to both for a while or whatever, buy something else...I seriously doubt you'll lose a client over keeping FCP 7, using both, or running Avid or Premiere or better yet, Smoke.

But the whining around here is getting really old. Enough already. Apple knows the user base is upset. This forum should be for helping people with their systems but the redundant posts of "I can't use it" does nobody good. It's not as if Apple doesn't already know about the holes left in the software they are no doubt working on filling. After all Randy wrote Premiere, Key Grip (which became FCP) iMovie, and the various iterations of FCP along the past decade. He knows full well we need external video et all... We don't have to tell him. They saved a few bucks porting iMovie code into this new app no doubt, and quite frankly, I don't think it matters all that much. It's good code. iMovie is by far the best consumer editing app out there to begin with. I like what this foundation is showing us. I've never seen my activity monitor pin the CPU's with FCP 7, but FCP X does, and it even starts using the virtual cores on my i7. Hey, it's just the beginning. If you can't wait or go with a hybrid workflow or whatever. Don't wait. Nobody's hold a gun to your head. But there's no way FCP 7 and it's code base could become what it needs to become to compete with Adobe's 64 bit version of CS 5.5. It will compete and then some IMHO.

Jerry


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Dave LaRonde
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:27:53 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "It's a 1.0 release of a new NLE just as FCP 1 was. It took Apple about 3 years to get to the point where a pro could really use it exclusively."

And that's just the point. Did Apple have a base of professional users when it introduced FCP 1.0? Of course not. It had to build FCP's capabilities and a reputation.

Now: did Apple have a have a base of professional users when it:
1) Introduced FCP X.0,
2) Completely shut down sales of FCS 3 and
3) Abandoned support of FCS 3?

Everyone here knows the answer to that one. I hope you aren't advocating that loyal FCP users sit tight while the Folks In Cupertino get their act together.




[Jerry Hofmann] "Apple knows the user base is upset... It's not as if Apple doesn't already know about the holes left in the software they are no doubt working on filling."

Then why release an incomplete piece of software -- meant meant to REPLACE the current version used by professionals -- AT ALL? Did the Ford Motor Company introduce its 2011 Focus minus the dashboard? C'mon, man, that argument just doesn't hold water. Anytime there is a new software version there are bound to be bugs. But we are talking about great, huge gaps in the software's utility.

If you ask me, Apple rushed the product to market due to pressure from Adobe products. In so doing, they're also testing a new marketing model: using early adopters as big, new base of Beta Testers. How does it feel to now have to PAY to test software?

As you say, no one's holding a gun to my head to use FCP X, and I agree. There are other options available.

But please don't insult the intelligence of a base of professional users with even the slightest hint that Apple's introduction of an incomplete FCP X, coupled with the simultaneous abandonment FCP 7, was either wise or was not a display of a disgustingly arrogant, take-it-or-leave-it attitude.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:34:45 pm

Why release as it is? Maybe they didn't think it would upset them all as much. Maybe they thought we'd have a more mature and professional attitude toward the new foundation (that's how they presented it, and that's how I see it). They were wrong apparently. I like what I'm seeing. I miss what it doesn't have, but for the most part, this looks friendlier than FCP 7 ever did, and if that makes a pro think he'll lose clients to it because it's easier to learn or just anybody can now get into the game (that actually happened a decade ago with FCP intro), then that editor doesn't believe in his own worth, what HE brings to the project.

I think that software doesn't make shows. People do. A great editor will be hired because he makes great edit decisions, not because he runs this or that software. A great editor brings something to the project that you won't get without him, right?

The beta tester thing... All software from any manufacturer is beta until the next full release. The only true "release" software is the version which was updated last just before the next full release of new beta software... right?

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:44:16 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "Why release as it is? Maybe they didn't think it would upset them all as much. Maybe they thought we'd have a more mature and professional attitude toward the new foundation (that's how they presented it, and that's how I see it). They were wrong apparently."

According to one person who claims to have communicated with Randy Ubillos directly on Facebook, where Randy is indeed available, Mr. Ubillos was quoted as saying (I'm paraphrasing here) the reactions were not "unexpected." So, I don't think it's fair for you to characterize the responses as immature and unprofessional if Apple knowingly allowed the situation to transpire exactly as it had anticipated.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 7:07:15 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "Why release as it is? Maybe they didn't think it would upset them all as much. Maybe they thought we'd have a more mature and professional attitude toward the new foundation"

If that was all Apple did, you would be entirely correct. However, you seem to regard the release of FCP X as the only thing that happened.

As you well know, they didn't do just one thing, they did three things: they launched FCP X, cut off all sales of FCS 3, and ended support of FCS 3. It was indeed a take-it-or-leave-it approach.

Now those who may have not gotten around to updating to 7.0.3 for one reason or another are scrambling to get it done for fear that if they don't do it now, they may never be able to do so. They fear that Apple may pull the plug on software updates run from within FCS itself. Meanwhile, Apple remains mute and enigmatic on the topic while editors develop ulcers dropping pressing work to get their software squared away:
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/8/1136384

I say that it is a shabby and reprehensible way to treat one's customers.




[Jerry Hofmann] "All software from any manufacturer is beta until the next full release. The only true "release" software is the version which was updated last just before the next full release of new beta software... "

It seems there will always be bugs. However, I think something else is also abundantly clear: Apple released this product prematurely. It lacks a great deal of functionality. These are the conditions under which traditional Beta Testers labor. These are NOT conditions to which paying customers should be subjected.

You may find Apple's FCP X release to be more or less normal. I do not agree.

If this is the way Apple chooses to do business in the future, I'm certainly free to take my business elsewhere and you're certainly free to remain behind.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Michael Belanger
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jul 2, 2011 at 2:30:52 pm

Seriously Jerry you should give your head a shake YOU are not the only experienced person here ... writing to people like you know more than anyone and have done more.. You are dancing around the issue here and you know it. Politics might be your future endeavour. Call a spade a spade Jerry... this is not a useable piece of software and not worthy of Pro application designation.
David LaRonde is 100% correct as are the others who are shocked at Apple's utter arrogance.. Yes you need to migrate to 64 bit but not leave your users stranded and having to work in a bubble and throw out all industry standard
Apple did not INVENT editing Jerry and as you likely know Apple did not even write the original code for FCP, it was Macromedia. They bought Color, Shake and Logic and have canabalized those applications or threw them out.. Face it Jerry Apple is a Marketing company with consumer software division

You need an attitude adjustment Jerry and a big one indeed !!!
There are companies that have built entire facilities around FCP and now Apple has summarily trashed all support and not allowed any user to import its own previous projects into this grand debacle.
It is entirely understandable that they are pissed off and that does not make them immature or unprofessional.
What is so elegant and ground breaking about FCP X.. a magnetic timeline... linking video to another piece of video... After 25 years I can safely say I have never had any sync issues and those who expect a piece of software to keep everything in sync are deluding themselves.
Calling the same old things by different names does not make this software elegant or sophisticated or ground breaking... it just makes it a dupe .

I guess ALL the pros are wrong Jerry but you are absolutely correct. We are reacting in the same way any professional would react.. hardly childish .


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Peter J. DeCrescenzo
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:52:36 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "... But please don't insult the intelligence of a base of professional users with even the slightest hint that Apple's introduction of an incomplete FCP X, coupled with the simultaneous abandonment FCP 7, was either wise or was not a display of a disgustingly arrogant, take-it-or-leave-it attitude."

Thank you, Dave. That really is the whole point in a nutshell.

Likewise, as Chris Jacek says in another thread:
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/296/15244?wfid=335&wpid=4974

"... Consider this analogy. Imagine if Microsoft released a brand new word processor, called say, MS-Word Vista. The new MS-Word Vista would not open any previous MS-Word documents. On the same day, Microsoft removes MS-Office from the stores, and removes the MS-Office updater from their web-site. You can only choose between two page sizes: letter and tabloid. This is not THAT big of an issue, because the new MS-Word Vista does not allow you to print your documents. Microsoft justifies this by saying we're moving to a paperless society, and everyone is emailing their documents anyway. Microsoft tells you this is all okay, because MS-Word Vista has an AWESOME new autofill engine that is revolutionary.

We aren't angry because we FEAR change. We LIKE good change, but not all change is good. Re-inventing the wheel to make it square is not an improvement. We are angry because Apple is being arrogant and presumptuous. We are angry because Apple is not merely abandoning us, they are actually attacking us with their irresponsible choices."

_Great_ analogy!

Here's my take:

FCPX may in fact be the greatest thing since sliced bread -- the jury will be out for at least several months before we know the answer to this -- but as of today I feel Apple's release of FCPX is one of the worst-handled software product transitions in recent history.

Aside: My theory as to why FCPX was released now (instead of 4-6 months from now) is because of OS X Lion's pending release. My guess is as the two software dev projects converged Apple decided FCP-7 would not be adequately-supported under Lion for very long, so the decision was made to release FCPX and kill FCP-7 "early". But this is only a guess on my part. Yes, I've heard that FCP-7 will "run" under Lion, but I'll believe it when I see it, and I have strong doubts it'll be a reliable combination, especially when 3rd party driver & plugin configurations -- e.g.: real-world installations -- are factored in. We shall see.

It's OK with me if folks wish to defend what they think is good in FCPX, but please don't discount the valid criticisms raised by many pro FCP-7 users.

Here's my list of the most important errors Apple has made with the FCPX launch:

1.) Apple's decision to immediately stop sales of FCP-7 was a huge mistake, especially if FCP-7 allegedly runs well under Lion. There are many, many very good reasons why users would want to continue both buying new copies of FCP-7 and to continue using their existing FCP-7 installs for the foreseeable future. That includes running FCP-7 _reliably_ under Lion.

2.) Apple's decision to not include a feature in FCPX to enable it to read & write FCP-7 project files was a huge mistake. There's a l-o-n-g history of software apps which include this sort of capability, some successful and some not so successful. I simply don't believe that Apple with its _billions_ in cash could not make this work in an above-average fashion. Technology/architecture/AV Foundation ... blah, blah, blah. Crimmy, it's just software. It should just work.

3.) Apple's decision to not offer a free trial version of FCPX -- so folks could take it for a spin at no risk before deciding whether or not to buy it -- is a huge mistake. If a free trial version of FCPX was available at launch, Apple may have avoided quite a bit of the venom currently being spewed in their direction. Apple's App Store refund policy & procedures are no substitute for a fully-function, time-limited free trial version of FCPX.

4.) Apple's decision to release FCPX without a in-depth statement of direction or "technology road map" is a huge mistake. In its absence we have the current endless speculation, almost none of which is productive. Apple often communicates with stellar clarity. However, the FCPX release has not been their finest hour, not by a long shot.

As a longtime FCP-7 user* I look forward to learning more about FCPX, but I'm in no hurry to spend $300 for the privilege of taking it for a spin.

Cheers.

* I've been using Final Cut since it was KeyGrip, starting when I worked at Macromedia in tech support. I'm a FC fan, but by no means consider myself to be a FC expert.

---

http://www.peterdv.com


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Patrick Sheffield
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:24:56 pm

With all due respect, Jerry, and thats a lot, you can't call FCX a 1.0 release. It's not. It says so right here on the splash screen. Final Cut Pro 10 - unless you think they misplaced the decimal point? If it's version 1.0, then call it Whizzy Editor Pro 1.0 or something else.

You can't have it both ways. If you're going to claim it's Final Cut 10, then you can't excuse the removal of those features and say cross your fingers and hope they come back in Final Cut 11. The fact is, they released this and killed the old version. It's a new release, not a new program. It really doesn't matter how much of the code they replaced.

What's so surprising about this is that Apple have always been so smart about major transitions in the past. Witness 68000->PPC, OS9->OSX, PPC->Intel. Heck when they released the considerably feature reduced iMovie 08 (sound familiar anyone?), they gave people a free download of iMovie 06 to ease the changeover until they added back the missing functionality.

All of those transitions were handled with far more finesse than this FCX debacle.

Patrick



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Tom Daigon
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:27:30 pm

Maybe Steves health issues have prevented him from being such a guiding force with this product.....?

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / FCP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:47:16 pm

Patrick,

I sent an email to you yesterday privately, did you get it?

David


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Herb Sevush
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:11:34 pm

Jerry -

The issue isn't whether or not FCPX will be upgraded, of course it will. The issue is who is the target audience for those upgrades. FCPX might be the greatest single user NLE ever made - but that doesn't help someone who needs a collaborative NLE.

The original post had to do with a small department in a news station wanting to port from Avid to FCP right now -- so what's your advice for him. Port the department to FCPX and then deliver your segments in 6 months to 2 years time when the FCPX is more fully featured. Or should they port to FCP7 and hope to buy enough licenses from various re-sellers around the country before they run out, only to find that Apple has discontinued the Pro Aps upgrader so that they are stuck with Ver 7.0 and can't get to 7.0.3 which as you know fixes a whole lot of problems.

Or would you tell him not to even think about FCP right now because Apple doesn't have a workable solution for him (and a lot of other editors) at this time.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:36:49 pm

Well FWIW, look at the Supermeet presentation. They in no uncertain terms made it clear they intend FCP X for professionals. It's not ready yet for everyone I'll agree. It will be I believe. If you can't wait, don't. But the whining is getting really old. Apple knew it wasn't ready for every pro situation from the get go. They know what we'll need and intend to deliver it according to them. If you don't believe them, fine. Buy Premiere or Avid or whatever.

Apple is Apple. They'll be silently doing upgrades and dates... So if you can't see you're way to run FCP 7 along side it, or just wait, buy something else. But I'd submit the update/grade cycle for FCP X will be faster than what's happened historically with FCP. The App store model is a good one too I think. No more lost serials etc.. you can download it again when you perform clean installs etc..

There's just as much to like about FCP X as there are holes in it. It's a START. Not the end of the line.

I've already posted my original reply and stand by it. If you can't wait, don't. If you can, do. Heck, I'll not be losing clients over this and most likely neither will anybody else. It's just not that earth shaking a problem. Heck I know of a place here in town that has been using an 8 year old Avid and makes plenty of money with it... you don't have to upgrade, you don't have to stay on any given platform. Apple knows what's missing for the pros and is no doubt working on the code. It will come faster because FCP X is written in Cocoa code. MUCH easier to write and upgrade with. This is why I think updates/ grades will come faster than we've been used to.

Jerry


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Scott Sheriff
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 8:05:15 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "Bill get used to Apple being silent."

Yeah, because that is exactly what they've trained their fans to do. This is simply rewarding bad behavior, and wouldn't be tolerated by any other company.
Time to stop being sheep. Time to demand answers and satisfaction.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 8:25:06 pm

Apple hasn't trained anybody. Apple has been the most secretive company in tech for at least 20 years. Nothing new, and it's not gonna change. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen... that's all I'm saying. They will never ever become as open as you'd like.. and from Apple's point of view, it's smart business. It has served them extremely well for years and years... hey 65B in the bank and no debt... They didn't get there by saying Next years iPod will be this or that... otherwise they'd hurt the sales of THIS years iPod, right?

They are so secret there is a whole industry in rumor sites about the company. (don't see that with the companies whose road map is public) It gives them so much publicity when they DO announce something. When a new product from Apple comes out they get so much free press it's stupid... why? Because they don't talk unless they are releasing something new. Nothing new there, and since they are and will continue to be extremely successful, I doubt they will change their M.O. If FCP X isn't bought by anyone, and FCP simply dies, Apple's revenues won't miss a beat... we are a tiny portion of Apple's base of customers. TINY... they'll not be changing company policy for us... ever.

I battled with your problem for years until I realized it only raised my blood pressure. Give it up I said, and I'm a lot happier with the situation now. I just don't care and look to history to repeat itself. Apple has a traceable history as we all know... that's about all that can be counted on. History repeating itself with them... It did too. They came out with a preview at NAB and a release in mid-late June. They've done this many times with FCP... Then they updated it, upgraded it on a similar schedules... it will repeat most likely. We all know that there will be an iPhone 5, we all know there will be new Mac Pro's soon because history with Apple repeats itself a lot.

Jerry


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Scott Sheriff
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 25, 2011 at 10:53:53 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "Apple hasn't trained anybody."

And then you go one to say this:

[Jerry Hofmann] "Apple hasn't trained anybody. Apple has been the most secretive company in tech for at least 20 years. Nothing new, and it's not gonna change. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen... that's all I'm saying. They will never ever become as open as you'd like.. and from Apple's point of view, it's smart business. It has served them extremely well for years and years... hey 65B in the bank and no debt... They didn't get there by saying Next years iPod will be this or that... otherwise they'd hurt the sales of THIS years iPod, right?

They are so secret there is a whole industry in rumor sites about the company. (don't see that with the companies whose road map is public) It gives them so much publicity when they DO announce something. When a new product from Apple comes out they get so much free press it's stupid... why? Because they don't talk unless they are releasing something new. Nothing new there, and since they are and will continue to be extremely successful, I doubt they will change their M.O. If FCP X isn't bought by anyone, and FCP simply dies, Apple's revenues won't miss a beat... we are a tiny portion of Apple's base of customers. TINY... they'll not be changing company policy for us... ever.

I battled with your problem for years until I realized it only raised my blood pressure. Give it up I said, and I'm a lot happier with the situation now. I just don't care and look to history to repeat itself. Apple has a traceable history as we all know... that's about all that can be counted on. History repeating itself with them... It did too. They came out with a preview at NAB and a release in mid-late June. They've done this many times with FCP... Then they updated it, upgraded it on a similar schedules... it will repeat most likely."


IMO you sound like you're indoctrinated (trained) to accept this as being acceptable business practice, because it is practiced by apple. That is ironic, because it is exactly what I'm talking about. You couldn't have illustrated my point any better if you tried.

[Jerry Hofmann] "We all know that there will be an iPhone 5, we all know there will be new Mac Pro's soon because history with Apple repeats itself a lot."

I'm not sure who this "we" is?
I don't know if there will be an iphone 5 or not.
I don't know if there will be a new generation of MP or not.
Does "we" mean you and apple? How are you so in the loop to know this with any certainty? Would you care to elaborate or expand on this a bit? Did 'we' all know FCS3 would be pulled without any warning too?
To me, there is no suggestion of a future for any apple product update release based solely on past performance. And that being dropped without reason or warning would be just as likely. Are you privileged to inside information on this? And if so, how?

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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David Roth Weiss
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:40:09 pm

[Reed Black] "I gotta say, having read through the manual and watched videos on what IT CAN DO (haven't bought it yet) its AWESOME!"

Reed,

You're brand new to this site, and by your own admission you neither bought or tested FCP X, yet you're suddenly qualified to influence readers by characterizing this new product as "AWESOME!"?

Wading in on this or any other subject on which you have zero experience is not a good way to establish yourself here, nor does it do service to anyone.

With all the experience you claim, it would behoove you to reserve issuing advice to others on FCP X and anything else until you have gained at least some firsthand experience with the product.

Does this make sense to you?


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Herb Sevush
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:59:06 pm

DRW -

You are so gosh darn diplomatic.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Reed Black
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:50:29 pm

Hi David. In response to your post to me...

"You're brand new to this site"
No, I'm not. I haven't posted in sometime admittedly but I frequent this site quite often.

"and by your own admission you neither bought or tested FCP X, yet you're suddenly qualified to influence readers by characterizing this new product as "AWESOME!"?"

And?! So. I think what's there from what I've been reading in the help manual IS AWESOME! Aren't I allowed my opinion?

"Wading in on this or any other subject on which you have zero experience is not a good way to establish yourself here, nor does it do service to anyone."

Okay, now you're being rude. Wading in? Zero experience? You don't know me from Adam - David. Establish myself here? Really as what? A guru? I simply posted MY OPINION based off the information I searched out in the help manual. And I found what I was looking for. Commented about it and that's that. Sorry if I've offended YOU.

"With all the experience you claim, it would behoove you to reserve issuing advice to others on FCP X and anything else until you have gained at least some firsthand experience with the product."

What advice did I give that's DETRIMENTAL (as you imply) to someone potentially buying this product? Are you suggesting that someone would by this product based off my post? Without reading or doing research themselves? And so what if they do? If they buy it and don't like it that's on them. Not me. Are you just annoyed that I'm liking what I see in FCPX and not screaming about what IT CAN'T DO YET?

"Does this make sense to you?"

David, I'm not sure if you're aware of the condescending tone of your post but I certainly don't appreciate it. And for the record I've read a number of your post and reply's to people and although you SEEM knowledgeable about SOME of the topics - YOU'RE VERY, VERY condescending, patronizing and above all RUDE.

Maybe YOU should think about those things before you post.

Sincerely,
Reed Black



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David Roth Weiss
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:10:06 pm

[Reed Black] "I simply posted MY OPINION based off the information I searched out in the help manual."

You called this product "AWESOME" having researched Apple's manual, and you wonder why I question that advice to someone here on the Cow seeking reliable, professional advice for their television station?

Perhaps if you research Apple's marketing brochures you'll find other helpful words of advice for those in need of help?


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Reed Black
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 10:36:09 pm

"You called this product "AWESOME" having researched Apple's manual, and you wonder why I question that advice to someone here on the Cow seeking reliable, professional advice for their television station?

Perhaps if you research Apple's marketing brochures you'll find other helpful words of advice for those in need of help?"


Wow David... you're a very smug a$$hole. I realize its not kosher to name call but you brought that on yourself. You of all people CONSTANTLY tell others in need of help to - "read the manual." Yet you critique me - for READING the manual before making a purchase of a product. Which I believe is the wise thing to do. I've seen what I need to see regarding the workflow I would use. And again I'll say its AWESOME! And yes, I'm downloading it now.

I've been editing on FCP since the first version professionally. Avid for 4 years before that. And before that movieola's and KEMS. With over 400 commercials under my belt, several feature films and documentaries, and over 600 hours episodic television. I KNOW I'm qualified to speak about what I like or don't like about this AWESOME new version of FCPX and if I feel compelled to share MY OPINION what is it to you? If you don't like it (my opinion or FCPX) that's fine. But posting your smug rude comments is completely unnecessary and UNHELPFUL!

Sincerely,
Reed Black



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David Roth Weiss
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 11:17:01 pm

[Reed Black] "I've been editing on FCP since the first version professionally. Avid for 4 years before that. And before that movieola's and KEMS. With over 400 commercials under my belt, several feature films and documentaries, and over 600 hours episodic television. I KNOW I'm qualified to speak about what I like or don't like about this AWESOME new version of FCPX and if I feel compelled to share MY OPINION what is it to you?"

Sorry, but all of your above qualifications are meaningless in this case - if you've only read the manual you are not qualified to judge the awesomeness of any product, and to argue otherwise is ludicrous and a losing battle.

Furthermore, when anyone has to revert to name calling, it's as good as admitting they've lost the argument.

And as far as my "CONSTANTLY" telling others to read the manual, the Cow archives are available to you if you'd like to count the number of times I've written that; which I would estimate to be maybe twenty times total since 1991. As the #6 poster of all time on Creative Cow, with 14251 posts, and as the #7 most tagged poster of all time (that indicates a helpful or meaningful answer), with a well-documented record of providing reliable help and information for decades; occasionally telling a person to read the manual is pretty much a right I think I've earned. In your case Reed, I'm happy you've read the manual, now go to the next level so the judgement you defend so vehemently actually means something.

Meanwhile, have a nice weekend.

David


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Reed Black
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 11:22:02 pm

Sigh... whatever David. Thanks, you have a good weekend too.



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Dave LaRonde
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 3:48:41 pm

[David Cooke] "I work in Creative Services dept at a large tv station. We LOVE FCP and our MACS... This is the 1st time EVER my MAC-based friend has ever-issued the words-of possibly migrating to Adobe Premiere Pro!!! Is it time for me to hang it up?"

I think it might be time to listen to your friend's advice. Check my sig below. Okay, it's not a big market, but we're still under deadline pressure like you. And we've been an FCP shop in Creative Services since FCP 4.5.

According to Walter Biscardi, a brand-new FORMER FCP forum host, Premiere can open legacy FCP projects:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1136363#1136363

Look at Walter's second post in the thread. And keep in mind that The Good Mr. Biscardi is one gent who really knows his shi.... um, stuff.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Andrew Stone
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:29:09 pm

Jerry, most of us do not doubt that FCPX will be production ready in time. The big issue but not the only one is for many of us who either work pass material off or work in large production workflows. Imagine you are a shop that needs to install five new seats of Final Cut. What are they supposed to do? You are the CTO in a large production facility and you have been informed that the editing environment that your facility has been based on has been EOL. What are you supposed to do?

If you want to be part of the ecosystem a year from now, you should be trying to figure out what NLE is going to have you best poised to be part of the game and profitable. Final Cut Pro 6 & 7 will still work but the industry will move on and it will not be with FC. Apple could change their approach to FC but I for one will not be waiting and the industry won't either particularly at the higher levels.

Steadicam & Camera Operator


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:49:51 pm

They are supposed to get what will work for them now. This software is so freaking inexpensive (Avid, Adobe, Apple) there's little to stop a pro from jumping around from app to app using the one that suits the task at hand the best. I come from a world of million dollar rooms which did less than FCP 3, and cost the price of FCS 3 PER HOUR to rent... so 2k or less for an NLE sure seems inexpensive to me.

Like if you had an AJA card, you could easily use Premiere with it now, FCP 7 at the same time NOW, and I'll bet before too long FCP X with it. Avid may well also support a Kona before long I hear from Wally. Smoke (more costly, but also a premiere finishing solution, does things the "affordable NLE's can just dream about) supports 3G cards now as well. So... there's where it's at. Apple will be silent. If you can't deal with that buy something you can deal with.

FCP 7 licenses may well be on ebay all over the place if all the FCP X haters dump FCP... right? They will not be hard to come by don't think.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:28:04 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "FCP 7 licenses may well be on ebay all over the place if all the FCP X haters dump FCP... right? They will not be hard to come by don't think."

Hey Jerry!

A serious question on what you've written above, that honestly is an enormous cause for concern. It appears that Apple is may render FCS 3 useless just as quickly as they can, by making it impossible to update to a useful working version. If indeed that does prove to be the case, illogical as it seems, what would say then?

The bottom line is, Apple in it's infinite wisdom is making no statements about their future support for FCS 3 installations and the company's policies pertaining to software these necessary updates. And, every indicator seems to imply they intend to leave their huge user base completely stranded. What's your feeling on this?

I understand that as one of the chosen few who were given advanced access to the software, you may be reluctant to speak out on some issues for fear of losing your privileged status, but isn't this tremendously important topic worth your 2-cents, especially in light of your statement above?


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:03:56 pm

Making it useless would hurt Apple more than help... they'd not sell new OS's as quickly for one thing. They'd not sell new Macs to those who want to run FCP 7. I don't see it being dropped for a while... There's nothing in FCP 7 that would preclude it from running in Lion don't think. FCP 7 is highly carbonized code which will run on intel machines and OS X for the forseeable future. If Apple were to jump to AMD chips instead, I still don't think there would be a problem...

The change from PPC machines to intel machines caused us all to have to trade up to a new mac to run FCP 5? was it? We seemed to take that in stride as things progressed. intel machines had been around for a couple of years before the latest version of FCP required it. Nobody screamed then... I see the same thing happening with FCP 7... at least a couple of years before it won't be supported by the latest machines.

Again though, if you wait and see, you'll be able to make a better judgement down the line. If you decide today to jump to a new NLE... go for it. I just think that FCP X is so more an advanced application under the hood, that down the line, we'll really embrace it.

Hey, nobody says you'll lose a client over running FCP 7 for a while yet, and nobody says you can't just keep the system setup you have now and continue on. If you can't, don't.

Do what you need to do to keep your business running, but don't freak out just yet. The story isn't over, nor will it ever be. I for one will not be jumping to another NLE because FCP X disappointed me. FCP 7 will reside on a partition on my Mac for a while yet, EVEN IF I went to Adobe or Avid, I'd keep it for opening legacy project files. Even Automatic Duck software doesn't translate everything that was in an FCP 7 sequence.

I will be in the market for a new Tower when the next gen towers are delivered. (soon I hear) and have no doubt that this tower will run FCP 7... Even Apple has told me they thought it would take at least a year before most of the user base switched to FCP X way back in January. They KNOW that not everyone is ready to go to FCP X, and will still be running FCP 7. They sure don't want to not sell those folks a tower running LIon this summer... Doesn't make sense for them to do so as it wouldn't work to help them sell new software that the Pro's aren't buying anyway, and only serve to irritate them and get them to jump to Adobe or whatevcer... It helps them to sell machines and OS's that still support older software.

For the first time, I'm seeing all those cores crankin' and it's turning me on. It's just the beginning. It's just the foundation, it's not over until the fat lady sings. Ya know?

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


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Reed Black
Re: My God! what has Apple done!
on Jun 24, 2011 at 6:10:34 pm

Well put Jerry. My sentiments exactly!



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