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Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX

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Morten Ranmar
Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 5:01:00 pm

Let me start by saying that this has nothing to do with the changes Apple have made to Final Cut. I actually like the Magnetic Timeline, and simpleness of the program. But there are just too many missing features, or lack of individual control, for a professional workflow:

- Missing ability to work with Shared Storage in a simple way
- Lack of possibility to easily save a version
- Colorgrades cannot be key framed
- The color board becomes cluttered and looses overview
- No Media Management for saving with trimmed Media
- Re-link without ability to overrule
- Loading of all projects slows down workflow
- Locked project settings, no custom sizing
- Custom Titles need to use cumbersome Motion engine
- Lack of partial export from Timeline
- Missing possibility to inspect clip from timeline in event viewer
- Re-importing from archive does not maintain timing

This is a sad decision, as I do not like the way Adobe hides away everything in menus that look completely alike, and generally takes too many mouse clicks to work with. But I just don't feel FCPX is ready for professional use in our company.

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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David Mathis
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 5:36:07 pm

Also, there is no "Send To Motion" option like there was in FCP 7, ouch! There is also the fact that there was no big announcement of what Apple has planned for Final Cut Pro X down the road which leaves me to believe there will only be updates for the time being.


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Chris Kenny
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 6:57:41 pm

[David Mathis] "There is also the fact that there was no big announcement of what Apple has planned for Final Cut Pro X down the road which leaves me to believe there will only be updates for the time being."

Those 'updates' have brought many very significant features. Apple hasn't really gotten much credit for this, because most of those features were willing in functionality that people believe should have been present in the first version. But now that many of those gaps are filled, if Apple continues to push out updates of similar scale every 3-4 months (which appears to be the plan), this seems vastly preferable to Apple holding back features for a big release every 12-24 months.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 9:55:44 pm

[Chris Kenny] "Those 'updates' have brought many very significant features. Apple hasn't really gotten much credit for this, because most of those features were willing in functionality that people believe should have been present in the first version. But now that many of those gaps are filled, if Apple continues to push out updates of similar scale every 3-4 months (which appears to be the plan), this seems vastly preferable to Apple holding back features for a big release every 12-24 months."

Hi Chris,

I tend to agree with the sentiment that you stated - a lot of these are add back features, but important ones for developing the FCP X user base transitioning from FCP 7 and others. In my opinion, the more important features were already baked in at 10.0, namely things like compound clips, skimming, magnetic timeline, etc. Though I haven't used it personally, I have heard that the multi-cam is unique and preferred by some, so you could consider that a new feature as well.

For those who care - Here's the wikipedia entry on FCP X which details its enhancements by version number

One of the potential upsides of Adobe's Creative Cloud model is that it allows Adobe to release new features on a regular basis as well. We have already demonstrated that with Photoshop and Illustrator in the CS6 cycle along with other products like Muse. We'll start to do the same with the video products as well which will be good news for Adobe users of any video product.

And in the interest of fairness and history, here's the wikipedia article on Premiere Pro

Dennis - Adobe guy


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Ievgenii Larin
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 5:41:45 pm

I agree with everything except your point about Motion 5. Motion 5 is awesome inexpensive piece of software that allows very flexible manipulations with titles and effects in FCPX.

And you can use partial export from Timeline and Event Browser since 10.0.6 update.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 3:20:47 am

[Ievgenii Larin] "I agree with everything except your point about Motion 5. Motion 5 is awesome inexpensive piece of software that allows very flexible manipulations with titles and effects in FCPX."

I happen to agree with you about Motion.


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Alan Okey
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 12:57:00 pm

At $50, Motion 5 is a no-brainier. Its excellent keyer alone is worth the price. However, unlinke FCP X, Motion 5 still does not have proper broadcast monitor support. This is a glaring omission that keeps it from being truly useful in my work. I hope Apple sees fit to update Motion 5 with the same monitoring capabilities as FCP X.


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Tapio Haaja
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 6:17:01 pm

I also agree completely with you except Motion based transitions, generators and titles are awesome and very powerful way of building templates for different workflows. Although I understand your need for basic title tool.

One more thing for us that makes working with FCPX impossible is that all the Motion based effects (also 3rd party effects because those work through Motion) soften non-square source material such as SD anamorphic. And yes we still work with some SD material... This happens because FCPX feeds all video material as square pixel to motion templates so there is scaling happening back and forth.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 6:56:38 pm

Morten -

Once you start to get the workflow down, you'll find a keyboard shortcut for just about everything you do in PPro - it will save you massive amounts of time over using the mouse, although it is an adjustment of work habits. You can also assign your own shortcuts:

http://helpx.adobe.com/content/help/en/premiere-pro/using/default-keyboard-...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 7:12:06 pm

Premiere Pro Next should reduce the amount of mouse clicking considerably, with new keyboard actions and revised track patching.

I'm very curious to see what the next major release of FCPX will bring, too. I think the divergent philosophies from different developers of what editorial should be is fascinating.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Bill Davis
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 8:24:02 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I'm very curious to see what the next major release of FCPX will bring, too. I think the divergent philosophies from different developers of what editorial should be is fascinating."

I think this is spot on.

The two pholosophies are simple.

A - I need to keep working the way I always have because my investment in process is too deep to jettison.
(which is an extremely defensible contention, by the way)

or

B - I'm willing to explore new ways to work in order to potentially benefit from some new ideas and thinking.

Everyone fits in one camp or the other.

Neither camp is better or worse than the other.

What matters is where you see yourself going and how long you decide you want to keep going there.

My 2 cents anyway.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Gary Huff
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 9:20:29 pm

[Bill Davis] "Everyone fits in one camp or the other."

The world doesn't quite work like that. Plus, just because something is different then what has been, it doesn't automatically mean "better".


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Bill Davis
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 7:18:38 pm

[Gary Huff] "The world doesn't quite work like that. Plus, just because something is different then what has been, it doesn't automatically mean "better""

Sometimes, no. I agree. But sometimes yes as well.

The truth is - a thing can't be made "better" unless it's made different.

Yes, making a thing different can also mean making it worse - but if you don't make it different, you're stuck with it as it is.

While the rest of the world moves on...

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Gary Huff
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 11:34:24 pm

[Bill Davis] "While the rest of the world moves on..."

That's always the rallying cry of the early adopters and it never really seems to give them a leg up over the competition.


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Bill Davis
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 4:49:57 pm

[Gary Huff] "That's always the rallying cry of the early adopters and it never really seems to give them a leg up over the competition."

Okay, Gary - then what DOES give anyone a leg up in this era when major players are shutting their doors in droves?

Editing is in stress.
VFX is in stress.
Today's hot reality show shop, seems to be one cancellation away from becoming a ghost town driven over the edge by relentless bean counting and an inability of anyone in the executive ranks to care about anything other than extracting the largest possible amount of money from every single transaction in which they participate.

If you do it for nothing and work your ass off, I'll ALLOW you to help me out on my project, and maybe give you a credit during on-screen time nobody watches anymore - world.

So I'm listening, what's the formula if NOT trying to re-program our brains to look at some of our same old tasks differently?

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Craig Shields
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 9:36:17 pm

[Bill Davis] "A - I need to keep working the way I always have because my investment in process is too deep to jettison.
(which is an extremely defensible contention, by the way)"


That's really oversimplified. I've never thought this way. It has nothing to do with investment. I have both Premiere and FCPX and I prefer Premiere. I also like the way Dennis with Adobe (and others) come onto this board and answer questions. It shows me they are listening. Of course Larry Jordan says that the Apple team tells him they are listening but it's not the same. BTW, why is it unlawful for Apple guys to come here and address us directly?



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Bill Davis
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 7:32:03 pm

[Craig Shields] " I have both Premiere and FCPX and I prefer Premiere."

Good. You've found the tool that makes you happy. Run with it.

So have I. And I'm doing the same.

The bet we're both making is that if we ever have to directly compete, the particular tool we've elected to learn and use is one that gives us a tangible competitive advantage.

You see that in Premier. I see that in X.

Fair game. Play on.

But also step back and undersand the philosophical differences. The game Adobe appears to be playing right now is "innovate, but don't disrupt." - a measured bet. Probably good business choice if preserving and growing an existing user base is the primary goal.

The game Apple is playing is "re-invent and definitely disrupt" believing that there's a new overall game afoot.

I'd describe their vision (from the outside) as acknowledging the new digital world that requires new tools and processes to better create, modify and track digitally created information streams for deployment around the world via a persistently connected web of electronic distribution.

It's a cousin to the TV and Movie business model of the past, but it's also very different.

All NLEs can work (more or less) in the new game. But only X (to my eye) was specifically torn down and re-created with this functional new reality in mind.

So I'm happy to compete using the "re-imagined" tool.

Simple as that.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Craig Shields
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 9:31:18 pm

That's good. I'm glad you're happy also. Run with that. I was just saying you oversimplified things by putting people into two categories of why they made the choices they did. You don't really have to keep preaching that same innovate argument.



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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 9:36:52 pm

[Bill Davis] "Everyone fits in one camp or the other."

Bill,

I think Walter was specifically commenting on philosophies behind software design, and I'd be very surprised if he had just two in mind - there seems to be at least a handful of approaches continually discussed here.

When it comes to editors and their workflows, needs, approaches, and theory, there are significantly more than a handful to count. This forum is (or should be) a constant reminder of that.

Franz.


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Bill Davis
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 8:07:23 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "I think Walter was specifically commenting on philosophies behind software design, and I'd be very surprised if he had just two in mind - there seems to be at least a handful of approaches continually discussed here."

Fair enough.

But I was noting that most editing software was built on a "timeline centric" view of editing prior to FCP-X - and it's the ONLY software I know of that functionally breaks from that traditional approach.

Because it has both the Event Browser as a database/pre-edit/module building construction zone - AND a linear timeline for specific project construction - it fundamentally changed what can be described as the traditional "all in the timeline" editing model.

I pretty much see all the other NLE designs as following the prior tradition.

So those are the "two" choices I was talking about.

it's like there was a global NLE ice cream stand with five variations on vanilla - and suddenly Apple came out with Chocolate.

If you know of other popular edit systems different enough from the vanilla tradition to earn a different flavor tag, I'd be very interested in hearing about them.

I think the more flavors in the world, the better.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 9:51:50 pm

[Bill Davis] "So those are the "two" choices I was talking about."

Bill,

I think you're still building a false dichotomy.

If you look at node-based workflows, for instance, you would come out with a different division between NLEs. This might be of primary importance for some editors.

You might find the timeline difference to be the most important difference. By emphasizing that, you're ignoring what others might emphasize as a defining feature.

Franz.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 10:09:36 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "If you look at node-based workflows, for instance, you would come out with a different division between NLEs. This might be of primary importance for some editors.

You might find the timeline difference to be the most important difference. By emphasizing that, you're ignoring what others might emphasize as a defining feature."


aye - there is a brilliant bit at nab where scruffy tv talk to the AE guy - he basically makes that point.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 4:34:52 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "I think you're still building a false dichotomy.
"


But it's not a dichotomy at all. It's a FACT that the range of assets we all have to manage are expanding hugely. Practices that were niche like multi-cam and the pervasive ability of nearly every citizen to recah in their pockets and shoot video at a moments notice are altering how the world interacts with video.

So asking if a core function of an NLE built for the modern world might be to incorporate tools specifically designed to deal with THIS fact, is a valid separator.

Heck, other NLEs do media management as well. And an excellent argument can be made that the success of CatDV and many other DAM systems indicates that the wide video market also values these attributes like never before.

All I'm arguing is that when the engineers at Apple re-designed FCP-X - they elevated these capabilities to front and center in their basic editing product.

I just don't see X's competitors doing the same thing.

Yes, you can build systems that not only do the same thing, but do it on a larger scale with X's competitors. But that meets the needs of particular classes of users who need or want to invest in a larger production infastructure.

The ONLY tool I know of that gives an individual editor access to tools with which to learn modern computerized asset management in an inexpensive, accessible tool is FCP-X.

If you know of others that do the same, I'm happy to hear about them.

Or if you disagree with my contention that media asset management will be increasingly critical as our industry progresses, then make that case.

But again, that's not a dichotomy in my view - it's just looking at the real world and reacting to it.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Alex Hawkins
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 10:25:50 pm

[Bill Davis] "The two pholosophies are simple.

A - I need to keep working the way I always have because my investment in process is too deep to jettison.
(which is an extremely defensible contention, by the way)

or

B - I'm willing to explore new ways to work in order to potentially benefit from some new ideas and thinking.

Everyone fits in one camp or the other. "


Hey guess what Bill!? News Flash! -

- I am in camps A and B. Guess I must just love Premiere Pro.

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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Bill Davis
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 8:18:26 pm

[Alex Hawkins] "Hey guess what Bill!? News Flash! -

- I am in camps A and B. Guess I must just love Premiere Pro."


Yeah, but I bet you're more in one camp than the other - even if you don't necessarily see yourself that way.

In american baseball, there are plenty of "switch hitters" (those who can bat from the right or left) - but nearly all of them hit with more power from one side.

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 1:45:42 am

[Bill Davis] "A - I need to keep working the way I always have because my investment in process is too deep to jettison.
(which is an extremely defensible contention, by the way)

or

B - I'm willing to explore new ways to work in order to potentially benefit from some new ideas and thinking.

Everyone fits in one camp or the other.
"


Just NOT true, Bill. It isn't one or the other however hard you try to make it so. Or how many times you say it. I'm not working the way I always have when I'm working on an Avid. My methodology is quite different. In some respects, working in X might even be closer.

There are some things X does really well. There are some things it doesn't do well. There are even some things it does badly. If most of what you do fits into group one, than X is probably for you. If a sizable chunk of what you do fits into group three--like a lot of what I do does--than it will probably be a long while before you want to use X.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 4:01:33 pm

[Bill Davis] "The two pholosophies are simple. A - I need to keep working the way I always have because my investment in process is too deep to jettison. (which is an extremely defensible contention, by the way) or B - I'm willing to explore new ways to work in order to potentially benefit from some new ideas and thinking."


This isn't how I see the difference between Premiere Pro and FCPX at all.

I think you're setting up a false dichotomy between Adobe and Apple. Adobe, the stalwart defender of traditional workflows, versus Apple, the lone visionary innovator? This doesn't give Adobe enough credit.

FCPX gets all kind of accolades for its forward-thinking, modern features like 64-bit architecture, native media handling, GPU acceleration, floating point processing -- but all these features were all "new ideas and thinking" in Premiere Pro before Premiere showed up on our collective radar.

While we've been theorizing about Apple and databases and leftover resources in the application package that might point to a future enterprise-grade workgroup solution, Adobe is actually delivering one with Anywhere.

While we point to the speed of Apple's development of FCPX through the first few point releases over the last two years, Adobe has answered with two major updates of their own, first from CS5.5 to CS6, and very soon from CS6 to Premiere Pro Next.

I suppose there are a quite a few ways that you could characterize the philosophical differences between Adobe and Apple, but from where I sit, it's all about the suite.

Adobe provides a toolset with monstrous breadth and depth. No one else has an offering that can touch the combined reach, power, and flexibility of the Creative Suite as a whole. Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, Audition, Premiere Pro, SpeedGrade and Media Encoder are each impressive applications on their own domains, but taken together, and integrated via technologies like Dynamic Link, it's really a colossal and incomparable package.

To return to a point I made above, Premiere Pro has, like FCPX, seen some big updates -- but so has every other application in the suite! Photoshop got a UI overhaul, the Mercury Graphics Engine for GPU acceleration, new content-aware tools, and an overhaul of the 3D tool. After Effects, having gone 64-bit only just a few years ago, also got a totally new cache system and a brand-new 3D renderer, and having already included powerful third-party tools like Mocha and Keylight for free, will soon add some enhanced rotoscoping tools and a bundled lite version of CINEMA 4D plus a new direct in-app C4D renderer from MAXON. SpeedGrade is the newest member of the family with CS6 bringing some UI tweaks and basic "Send to" functionality from Premiere, but the next version will bring a complete UI overhaul, will add the Mercury Transmit Engine for video I/O, and will transplant the Lumetri color engine into Premiere Pro for enhanced integration.

Taken as a whole, Adobe's pace of development and integration is shocking. Between Ps/Il/Ae (and with ever-improving C4D integration), Adobe practically owns motion design. Story/Pl/Pr is an impressive script-to-screen solution, and Premiere Pro is an impressive NLE in its own right. With Pr/Ae/Sg/Au, Adobe has all the pieces of a very fierce finishing system that can rival the hero uber-apps.

We often say that Apple has always been about "individual empowerment" and note that they've been a driving force in the so-called democratization of digital video, but look at Adobe here, too: they're taking it to the streets with all these apps available for no money upfront with a Creative Cloud subscription that costs as much every month as a single tank of gas or a daily coffee habit.

I think you've argued that FCPX, and by extension Motion 5 and Compressor, was built to do what most editors need it to do, most of the time, with the implication that other tasks are better left to specialist applications.

Adobe aims to cover digital content creation across the board, but not in some huge conglomerated application that inevitably leaves someone disappointed: rather, they adhere to the time-tested UNIX philosophy of task-focused tools that can work together. Because the suite is not a closed-off, walled garden, Adobe can still "win," even if Premiere Pro doesn't!

If I may oversimplify, I see the deepest philosophical difference between the two developers is this: Apple offers hare tools which make the first 80% very easy and the last 20% very hard; Adobe offers tortoise tools that recognize that the first 80% doesn't matter if you don't get the last 20%, too.

We do agree on one major point: however you characterize the difference between these developers, there is tremendous value in both approaches, and "horses for courses" applies.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Bill Davis
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 8:44:38 pm

[Walter Soyka] "FCPX gets all kind of accolades for its forward-thinking, modern features like 64-bit architecture, native media handling, GPU acceleration, floating point processing -- but all these features were all "new ideas and thinking" in Premiere Pro before Premiere showed up on our collective radar."

Every feature you mention here are lovely for the technical astute, but way down the list of what makes a piece of modern software useful to my thinking.

They're all centered around how fast or efficiently the software can do it's traditional tasks.

What are the 'standards breaking" features of Adobe's approach? I'm NOT saying they didn't re-invent things - they surely did. But are those things features used by the few, or the many.

Striped down to the bare bones, has the Premier team confronted the question "Is there a better way to do common editing tasks than the way we've been doing them all along?"

Or do they see video editing as something that there's no real need to "re-invent."

As much grief as X implementations as magnetism, and blowing up the track orientation earned them, they WERE re-imagininings of how an editing process might fundamentally be.

That's why it's fair to ask how much of any NLE development effort it aimed at improving and adding to what's already there - and what part of that effort might be aimed at re-imagining where the larger game is moving.

I think that's a fair question.

It's a video revolution out there - NOT an evolution. HD video capture devices in virtualy every pocket IS a transformative, like it or not.

It means the flood becomes a torrent.

Any particular editors process may be sequestered from the flood - particularly if they're lodged in an office with gatekeepers telling them what content to work on and when - but for many, video is increasingly no uncommon a resource that needs creation, curation, and management than any other form of digital communications content - be it email or music.

So what are the tools that people can use to manage this new reality?

Is Premier interested in that? Or in making movie and episodic TV producers feel more comfortable?

Are they intrested in the industry as a whole? Or do they believe that their business is best served keeping the old-guard editing pros happy?

Most of which is only peripherally about how fast the processors crunch pixels.

And all about how the company sees video being used in our collective human future.

FWIW.

(work calls, no more time for this fun!)

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Alex Hawkins
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 1:45:17 am

Seriously Bill you need to take off your blinkers.

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 3:32:18 am

[Walter Soyka] "FCPX gets all kind of accolades for its forward-thinking, modern features like 64-bit architecture, native media handling, GPU acceleration, floating point processing -- but all these features were all "new ideas and thinking" in Premiere Pro before Premiere showed up on our collective radar."

[Bill Davis] "Every feature you mention here are lovely for the technical astute, but way down the list of what makes a piece of modern software useful to my thinking. They're all centered around how fast or efficiently the software can do it's traditional tasks. "

I don't think you'd like FCPX very much if it constantly threw "Out of Memory" errors, or if you had to transcode to ProRes before you ingested, or if you had to render everything before you could see it, or if your effects couldn't preserve overbrights.



[Bill Davis] "Striped down to the bare bones, has the Premier team confronted the question "Is there a better way to do common editing tasks than the way we've been doing them all along?""

I just spent 729 words describing how I think Adobe has found their better way by offering a broader and deeper toolset.

While I would certainly say that Adobe does work at making common editing tasks better, I'd also say they enable uncommon editing tasks, too -- and that's what I find so appealing.



[Bill Davis] "As much grief as X implementations as magnetism, and blowing up the track orientation earned them, they WERE re-imagininings of how an editing process might fundamentally be. That's why it's fair to ask how much of any NLE development effort it aimed at improving and adding to what's already there - and what part of that effort might be aimed at re-imagining where the larger game is moving."

I think you're begging the question. Your conclusion is an implied premise of your argument.



[Bill Davis] "It's a video revolution out there - NOT an evolution. HD video capture devices in virtualy every pocket IS a transformative, like it or not."

There is no video revolution. EVERYTHING is accelerating. Video is just along for the ride.



[Bill Davis] "Any particular editors process may be sequestered from the flood - particularly if they're lodged in an office with gatekeepers telling them what content to work on and when - but for many, video is increasingly no uncommon a resource that needs creation, curation, and management than any other form of digital communications content - be it email or music. So what are the tools that people can use to manage this new reality?"

I don't follow.



[Bill Davis] "Is Premier interested in that? Or in making movie and episodic TV producers feel more comfortable? Are they intrested in the industry as a whole? Or do they believe that their business is best served keeping the old-guard editing pros happy?"

If be "the industry as a whole" you're talking about "people creating digital multimedia content as a part of their job" -- then isn't it pretty hard to identify a company with a more holistic interest than Adobe?



[Bill Davis] "Most of which is only peripherally about how fast the processors crunch pixels."

Let's come back to this sometime. There is a reason I am so passionate about processors crunching pixels, but this needs some time and space of its own.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 2:54:21 pm

And once again the arguments come full circle:

There is no industry as a whole. You've got skateboarders/snowboarders who are just starting to edit, hobbyists, wedding videographers, promo editors, one-man shows, production houses, ad agencies, you name it, and each and every one of the end-users will have a different set of preferred features, must-have features, and wish-they-had features.

That's the flaw with all of the back and forth here (for the most part). Each and every argument is based upon what each particular poster thinks should be the standard for everyone else, based on their standard...

I'd really like an NLE which accesses Windows' incredible Voice Control feature; imagine hands-off editing - "Open Premiere - Mouse Control - Bin - Select One - Open - Place Clip on Timeline at 00:04:14:21 -Apply Effect - Gaussian Blur - 2 percent - Enter - Play Back". It would make carpal tunnel a thing of the past, and enable editors who have hand or arm problems to continue working. But that's not on anyone's radar. To a certain degree, I can already do this in Windows (having played with it extensively in Vista64-bit), but there are some features in the NLE which would have to be slightly adapted to work with voice control...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 4:43:38 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "That's the flaw with all of the back and forth here (for the most part). Each and every argument is based upon what each particular poster thinks should be the standard for everyone else, based on their standard..."

I agree with this.

But it also indicates that the next smart bit of useful business intelligence for NLE manufacturers is to determine which classes of users are on the ascendence, and which classes of users are on the decline.

I'd argue that the trend is NOT toward more, larger facilities - it's toward fewer larger facilities. Yes, there will be exceptions, and the best of the large shops will, hopefully, thrive. But the global trend in media creation been been decentralization and, arguably, resource starvation, at pretty much all levels. If that assessment is correct, it's smart to try to figure out what tools you can deploy personally, in a world where there might be fewer shops to around that can provide one with that career-long seat.

I know it's scary. But I think it's also real.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 24, 2013 at 7:32:05 am

[Bill Davis] "But it also indicates that the next smart bit of useful business intelligence for NLE manufacturers is to determine which classes of users are on the ascendence, and which classes of users are on the decline."

You seem to see it as a migration from point A to point B where I think it's more akin to an expansion from point A to point B. New territory is being exploded but the old territory remains populated and still thrives. I really haven't noticed a drop off in desire for hollywood movies and TV shows over the last decade or so. Netflix stock just shot up in large part to the success of House of Cards and I'm sure Amazon, YouTube and Hulu are hoping their original content will give them a sizable boost as well. Some studies say that during primetime TV hours in the US 1/3 of *all* internet traffic is Netflix streaming. Holy smokes! If I was a traditional TV/movie distributor I'd be worried but as a content creator, dude, I'm lovin' the fact that these streaming outlets are trying to produce their own premium content.

Large facilities are on the decline but they have been for over a decade so that's nothing new. Going to a facility has gone from the only option to a option as gear has become more affordable. If I owned/managed a facility I'd be figuring out how to ride the changing tides but, again, as a content creator I just go where ever the next gig takes me. Big facility? Sure. Boutique offices in a converted house? Why not. Edit at home in my bathrobe? Done that too.

I've spent the majority of the last 7 years in the web space (or 'digital' as some label it) and while the will is there the revenue, by and large, certainly is not. Lots of growth potential because it's still a nascent area but the jury is still out on how things will ultimately shake out. How many taking part in the current new wave of editing will be repeat customers and how many will be one and done? I dunno, maybe because I've been so close to it for so long the drastic changes don't seem drastic too me since I've seen so many of the subtle changes that led the way.

*Analogy Alert* The Wii was a prime force in expanding the reach of video game consoles to casual gamers (or typically non-gamers) which led to gang buster sales out of the gate, calls that hardcore gaming was dead, and some 'hey, we do casual gaming too!' moves from Microsoft and Sony. Unfortunately casual gamers don't buy very many games (as the term 'casual' might imply) which caused the Wii's growth to screech to a halt and Nintendo went from 7th Heaven to all-hands-on-deck rather abruptly.

The fall of the Wii certainly wasn't accompanied by the fall of casual gaming but it did signal some boundaries to casual gaming as well as show the value of a core audience of repeat customers. Nintendo's new console, the WiiU, is aimed to regain the hardcore gaming audience that the Wii lost though it retains features to appeal to their 'expanded market' of casual gamers.


[Bill Davis] "If that assessment is correct, it's smart to try to figure out what tools you can deploy personally, in a world where there might be fewer shops to around that can provide one with that career-long seat."

What's this career long seat you speak of? ;) Staff gigs, especially career long staff gigs, seem rare as hen's teeth in our industry.




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Greg Andonian
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 9:32:40 pm

Morten Ranmar This is a sad decision, as I do not like the way Adobe hides away everything in menus that look completely alike, and generally takes too many mouse clicks to work with.

You won't be so sad when you see the next version. They went to great lengths to make the workflow more efficient and there are many significant things that either require less clicking, or can now have a keyboard shortcut, or now work the way you would expect them to. Retooled.net has a lot of good videos about the changes that have been made.

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 21, 2013 at 9:48:05 pm

[Morten Ranmar] "Adobe hides away everything in menus that look completely alike, and generally takes too many mouse clicks to work with"

We have striven to minimize mouse clicks over the past few versions and I think the next release is the most significant one to date. Only you will be able to determine if it meets your needs.

One other big thing to understand with Adobe's philosophy in UI is that we are strong believers in contextual menus for certain things, so a right click can often save you a bunch of hunting in the menus.

Dennis - Adobe guy


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Eric Mueller
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 3:16:23 am

I've been strictly an Avid user for non-linear since moving from an A/B BetaSP setup in the mid 90's. Premiere and FCP, while both very capable, never had enough differentiation to make me seriously consider switching. With FCPX and Premiere CStheNext (combined with Avid's inability to advance their software in the areas I need them to), I really see the possibility of using two or possibly even three editing applications - and playing each to their own strengths.

The really great thing is that I bought the MC7 upgrade (from v6.0) for $299, FCPX for $299 and a Cloud subscription for $360+tax (for this year at least...) That's $1k for three really great applications for a maybe a year's time. I added a decklink card for FCPX and Premiere output as well as Resolve (the free version for now).

Like many people here, I've had a love/hate relationship with the three A's, but really it's a pretty amazing and economical time to be involved in post.

Now whether the economical part of it is a good thing or not is another topic entirely... :)


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 6:06:32 pm

Whoa... none of this fair and balanced posting - you gotta take a stand either for or against an NLE here in this forum (usually against FCPX lol)!

Kidding... well put. Hey and for another $69 you can add Lightworks - which may emerge as the real winner in the LE wars in the near future...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 6:11:21 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "Hey and for another $69 you can add Lightworks - which may emerge as the real winner in the LE wars in the near future..."

That's $60 per year. On subscription, just like Creative Cloud.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 6:15:49 pm

Thanks for the correction - and I meant NLE wars (typo)

They did mention at NAB they are looking at other ways to pay for full version such as one time lifetime pay etc.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 7:27:56 am

Hi Morten,

just some answers to some of your complaints:

"Missing ability to work with Shared Storage in a simple way"
Well, situation could very much be better, but we work with Shared Storage and FCPX, although, never people working on the same projects at the same time. Just a Mac Mini Server connected to Pegasus RAIDS, Atto Thunderbolt to 10GB Ethernet, to a switch. Every Retina connected to that trough Ethernet. We just load in the footage in FCPX, all have our own events. The only thing we do is copy the Events and Projects that we need before the editing to the SSD we are working on. This is only like a couple of hundred megabytes in total for our projects, works great. But could be better.
It's more or less the same as with FCP7 and Premiere Pro in my knowledge, so... (not talking about the Adobe Anywhere project)

"Lack of possibility to easily save a version"
Okay, but you can just make a duplicate of a sequence and name it version 1 or whatever, and work further on version 2. Also check Digital Rebellions ProVersioner tool.

"Colorgrades cannot be key framed"
No, that's true. I do hope that Apple goes a lot further in developing much more old Color tecnology back into FCPX. But, the Color Boards is fast, renders very fast and you have to learn a bit. That being said, I still prefer color wheels. Do you know SliceX? You can do some wonders with that in combination with the Color Board. Still. Could be better!

"The color board becomes cluttered and looses overview "
Well, I sent feedback to Apple about the ability to name grades. I'm not really of the opinion that it really becomes clutter, but I can get where you are coming from.

"No Media Management for saving with trimmed Media"
Does Premiere Pro allow this? You can save media with FCPX, or even only the used clips you have in your timeline. But no handles. I'm pretty sure that's coming in an update.

"Loading of all projects slows down workflow"
Buy Event Manager X. Seriously. It's a 4 dollar app.

"Locked project settings, no custom sizing"
True and not true. Yes, I would like to have Apple set custom resolutions in a project, I hope they add this (I'm pretty sure they will). But there is a perfectly working work-around for this, described here on Creative Cow. Search Google for Creative Cow Custom Resolutions or something. It works perfectly.

"Custom Titles need to use cumbersome Motion engine"
Performance used to be bad in FCPX at times, sometimes it still is. Other times I find it much better and much easier then the old FCP. You have a lot more visual feedback, much more flexibility, ...

" Lack of partial export from Timeline"
Not true. that was added in an update, 10.0.6.

"Missing possibility to inspect clip from timeline in event viewer"
You can always just click the clip and use the shortcut SHIFT+F (if I'm not mistaken). Reveals it in the Event Browser...

"Re-importing from archive does not maintain timing"
Can't comment on that, I don't use the archive function, and I don't really get your comment either, but can't commend either way.


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 7:40:42 am

Yes I know there are workarounds for many of the issues.

But it is like pushing my car as a workaround to get it to start, when the battery is dead...

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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Gary Huff
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 12:18:39 pm

[Morten Ranmar] "But it is like pushing my car as a workaround to get it to start, when the battery is dead..."

Perfect analogy!


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Brett Sherman
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 22, 2013 at 12:55:47 pm

[Morten Ranmar] "Yes I know there are workarounds for many of the issues. But it is like pushing my car as a workaround to get it to start, when the battery is dead..."

Hmm. I have yet to find an editing program that doesn't require workarounds of some sort. And I do not find any of the workarounds with FCP X anywhere near the "pushing car" level. FCP 7 was chock full of them. I have no doubt Premiere CS 7 will have plenty. To me you have to judge the workflow as a whole with the workarounds. For example I use sparse bundles to allow for shared storage and to address the slow down issue of multiple projects. Is this a workaround? I don't know, is Premiere's project browser a workaround? To me it's irrelevant. Does it work for me is the only thing that is relevant.

Also on another point. Saving versions. Actually quite easy. Select All. Make Compound Clip. Break Apart. Three clicks, not one, but it avoids the proliferation of FCP projects you have to sort out later.



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Greg Andonian
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 7:57:32 am

[Mathieu Ghekiere] you can just make a duplicate of a sequence and name it version 1 or whatever, and work further on version 2. Also check Digital Rebellions ProVersioner tool.

I really don't like the way FCPX requires you to go to third parties for things that should have been there to begin with.

[Mathieu Ghekiere] I still prefer color wheels.

Me too. I'm glad Premiere has them.


[Mathieu Ghekiere] "No Media Management for saving with trimmed Media"
Does Premiere Pro allow this? You can save media with FCPX, or even only the used clips you have in your timeline. But no handles. I'm pretty sure that's coming in an update.


Premiere Pro does have this, but it doesn't work well for formats that are based on a "folder structure". During the demo of the next version that I saw, someone brought this up, and we were told that they are working on it- and after seeing all the major improvements that are comming in the next version, I can say very confidently that I belive it.

[Mathieu Ghekiere] Buy Event Manager X. Seriously. It's a 4 dollar app.

Another 3rd party add-on to buy to fix something that should have been there to begin with, eh? Geez. Yes, it's only four bucks, but with Premiere this issue is never there to begin with, so you don't need to buy anything to fix it. So now you can meet with someone at Starbucks and have a tall White Chocolate Mocha while you're there, and feel good about the fact that you were able to spend time with a friend over coffee instead of spending more money to fix another one of your NLE's glaring shortcomings...

[Mathieu Ghekiere] Yes, I would like to have Apple set custom resolutions in a project, I hope they add this (I'm pretty sure they will). But there is a perfectly working work-around for this, described here on Creative Cow. Search Google for Creative Cow Custom Resolutions or something. It works perfectly.

But, see, with Premiere you don't have to hope it gets added, and you don't have to do a google search, then come to the Cow, then go through the steps of doing a workaround- because it's there already.


[Mathieu Ghekiere] "Missing possibility to inspect clip from timeline in event viewer"
You can always just click the clip and use the shortcut SHIFT+F (if I'm not mistaken). Reveals it in the Event Browser...


In Premiere, you just right-click the clip in the timeline and go to Properties, and it comes right up.

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Brett Sherman
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 2:55:01 pm

[Greg Andonian] "with Premiere you don't have to hope it gets added"

But, you'll notice you just did that 3 paragraphs earlier in relation to media management.

So you're saying you're positive Adobe is addressing this and positive that Apple is not? Based on what exactly?



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Greg Andonian
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 24, 2013 at 1:29:30 am

[Brett Sherman] So you're saying you're positive Adobe is addressing this and positive that Apple is not? Based on what exactly?

No, I'm not positive that Apple isn't working on it. I'm just saying we don't know what's going on at apple right now. I've seen comments here about people having heard that Apple knows there are things that need to be fixed, but nothing specific about individual features.

As far as media management in Premiere, yes- I know they're working on it. As I mentioned in another thread, at the last meeting of the Premiere Pro user group that I go to David McGavran, the senior engineering manager for Premiere Pro, came and did a demo of the next version. While he was there the issue of the media manager crashing came up and David explained that it was added back in the days of tape formats like DV- before file-based formats that are based on a folder structure became widespread. He then said that the issue is being worked on. When I hear the Senior Engineering Manager for Premiere Pro say that this is being worked on, I'm inclined to believe him- especially after seeing that demo. Not long after CS6 came out, I remember seeing comments from Adobe acknowledging the shortcomings of the track-based audio mixer for people who want to mix at the clip level, and saying that a solution is being worked on. Now the next version has a clip-based audio mixer added to it. And there are lots of other specific issues that have been brought up here that are now fixed in the new version. So with that in mind I believe I can confidently say that yes, the Media Manager issues are being worked on.

Even in the new release, Premiere Pro isn't perfect. No NLE is. But it is nice knowing that if there's something in Premiere that needs to be addressed, the criticism about it won't fall on deaf ears- or at least appear to.

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Ievgenii Larin
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 2:56:52 pm

[Greg Andonian] "So now you can meet with someone at Starbucks and have a tall White Chocolate Mocha while you're there, and feel good about the fact that you were able to spend time with a friend over coffee instead of spending more money to fix another one of your NLE's glaring shortcomings... "

It is an absolutely imaginary world, where you don't need to buy third party plugins. Nothing is perfect, even Adobe products.


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Steve Connor
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 3:42:06 pm

[Ievgenii Larin] "It is an absolutely imaginary world, where you don't need to buy third party plugins. Nothing is perfect, even Adobe products."

How many AE artists don't have any third party plugins?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 3:47:23 pm

AE is the engine - the third party plugins are the wheels...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Steve Connor
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 3:56:43 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "AE is the engine - the third party plugins are the wheels.."

Perhaps that's how we can describe FCPX then?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 4:11:29 pm

Steve -

To a certain degree, I guess you could describe FCPX that way. I'm sure you'll find arguments on both sides as to whether FCPX should have tape-ingest capabilities, or (pick your favorite missing feature)...

The one thing with After Effects is that there is so much functionality already built in - keying, motion tracking, many special effects, color correction - that at certain levels of production it's all you need. But I hear people complaining all the time that the audio manipulation capabilities stink. Which, to a certain degree they do - that's why there's Audition. With Adobe, the Creative Suite becomes the monster toolkit which no other software developer offers.

That said, I'd be lost without Magic Bullet Suite, Trapcode Suite, MB Effects Suite, Newton, and a few others which don't immediately come to mind. It's not that I couldn't achieve many of the results with just AE, it's that it's so much faster, and that third-party functionality pays for itself, in many cases, with one project.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Greg Andonian
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 24, 2013 at 2:01:42 am

[Steve Connor] [Joseph W. Bourke] "AE is the engine - the third party plugins are the wheels.."

Perhaps that's how we can describe FCPX then?


The problem is, going by this analogy, the engine only has half as many pistons as it's capable of holding- unlike the model that came out the year before, which had all of them in there. And if you want your engine to be as powerful as it is really capable of being, you have to go to an after-market auto shop.

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Greg Andonian
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 24, 2013 at 1:46:31 am

[Steve Connor] How many AE artists don't have any third party plugins?

Well, ok, but how many AE artists have ever had to go to a third party to access their old projects? That to me is just ludicrous. What if Apple releases a significant update for FCPX that breaks compatibility with 7 to X- or completely hoses the the functionality of it? Then you have to wait for a new release of 7 to X before you can upgrade, if you need to access FCP7 stuff...

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 4:08:26 pm

Hi Greg,

some replies:

"Premiere Pro does have this, but it doesn't work well for formats that are based on a "folder structure". During the demo of the next version that I saw, someone brought this up, and we were told that they are working on it- and after seeing all the major improvements that are comming in the next version, I can say very confidently that I belive it."

FCPX already has it, just without handles, in any format. So I wouldn't consider Premiere much better here, from what I'm hearing...

"In Premiere, you just right-click the clip in the timeline and go to Properties, and it comes right up."
Sorry, but I can't get this. In FCPX, you have to right-click a clip, and select: Reveal in Event Browser. OR, you click it, and do the shortcut I said. It's THE SAME AMOUNT of steps as in Premiere (2 clicks OR 1 click and a shortcut). Why do you think Premiere's way is better?

And you complain about shortcomings of FCPX, some of which are rectified with a 4 dollar app (on a 300 dollar NLE, btw...), but you never complain that for instance, in Premiere you can only have one sequence open? And I don't know if this still is the case, but even if it isn't, this was the case FOR YEARS.
You complain about Apple having something in the first 2 years of a completely new program, but Adobe has had some issues for YEARS and YEARS before they did anything about this.
I like the way Adobe communicates with their user base, and no one can deny they have been doing a lot of things right lately, but when you get to the gist of it, I don't think Adobe is so much better than Apple.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 6:23:29 pm

[Mathieu Ghekiere] " in Premiere you can only have one sequence open? And I don't know if this still is the case, but even if it isn't, this was the case FOR YEARS."

No, that isn't true. It's always been possible to have multiple sequences open in Premiere (even in pre CS versions)... maybe you're talking about projects? In that case you're correct, you can't open multiple projects at a time. You can however import sequences from different projects, I believe it's been that way since CS4.

To be honest, I don't really see this as a limitation, it's just the way Premiere operates. I may be biased though, as most of my other tools only allow one project to be open at a time (Realflow, MoI3D, Mocha Pro, etc.).

Shawn



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Paul Neumann
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 6:40:41 pm

So....Indy or Tracker?


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Shawn Miller
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 8:27:44 pm

[Paul Neumann] "So....Indy or Tracker?"

Hi Paul, I assume you're talking to me... are you asking what I do for a living?

Shawn



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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 7:40:50 pm

Hi Shawn,

I can get that not having multiple projects open isn't a problem for you (although I think this is pretty limiting). My answer was just a response to Greg, that if you bash FCPX for not being able to choose without 3rd Party plugins (or manually move it in the Finder) which Events are NOT online, you could as well bash Premiere for not even being able to open up multiple projects.
But saying: ow FCPX is bad because you can't even do *A* you have to be honest and say that in Premiere there are also issues with *A*.

That being said, I *do* think not being able to open multiple projects in an NLE that's already pretty matured, is not less insane than FCP X not being able to only export a small range from a timeline. (that was insane too, but fortunately fixed in 10.0.6 upgrade). Just as an example.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 7:53:37 pm

I think that they're two totally different issues and don't even deserve to be compared. What is an issue to one user is no problem to another. The only person who complains about a missing or poorly implemented feature is the one who feels he needs it...

Would you rather have a three legged horse, or a six legged dog?

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 8:48:43 pm

[Mathieu Ghekiere] "Hi Shawn,

I can get that not having multiple projects open isn't a problem for you (although I think this is pretty limiting)."



Fair, enough. I was just pointing out that you can have multiple sequences open in Premiere. I suppose we can argue what's operationally better, but let's at least agree to be accurate. :-)

Shawn



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Walter Soyka
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 9:25:59 pm

Totally OT post to follow. Please forgive me.

[Shawn Miller] "MoI3D"

You use MoI3D? I just ran across this a few weeks ago -- looks really cool. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Shawn Miller
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 23, 2013 at 11:17:43 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Totally OT post to follow. Please forgive me.

[Shawn Miller] "MoI3D"

You use MoI3D? I just ran across this a few weeks ago -- looks really cool. I'd love to hear your thoughts."


Hey Walter

MoI 3D is great; easy to use, streamlined UI, powerful functions and very stable. It's the best NURBS modeler I've ever used. You can punch holes in meshes without mangling polygons, it's great for creating very smooth, curvy surfaces and the OBJ exporter produces fantastically clean objects. Best of all, you can throw it on a thumb drive and create on just about any PC. MoI uses OpenGL, so you don't need a beefy GPU to get good performance. I use it for about 50% of my modeling needs, everything else is done Cinema 4d.


MoI was developed by Michael Gibson, he's the original developer of Rhino3D. He's an independent developer and his standards are VERY high, so if you have questions about the software, he's really good about providing helpful information. I highly recommend downloading and taking it for a spin. :-)

Shawn



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Shawn Miller
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 24, 2013 at 6:00:02 am

Hey Walter,

I spoke to Michael Gibson earlier this evening. MoI v3 beta has Mac and PC versions. When it's released, you will be able to buy a single license for both platforms at no extra cost.

Thanks,

Shawn

[Walter Soyka] "Totally OT post to follow. Please forgive me.

[Shawn Miller] "MoI3D"

You use MoI3D? I just ran across this a few weeks ago -- looks really cool. I'd love to hear your thoughts."


Hey Walter

MoI 3D is great; easy to use, streamlined UI, powerful functions and very stable. It's the best NURBS modeler I've ever used. You can punch holes in meshes without mangling polygons, it's great for creating very smooth, curvy surfaces and the OBJ exporter produces fantastically clean objects. Best of all, you can throw it on a thumb drive and create on just about any PC. MoI uses OpenGL, so you don't need a beefy GPU to get good performance. I use it for about 50% of my modelling needs, everything else is done Cinema 4d.


MoI was developed by Michael Gibson, he's the original developer of Rhino3D. He's an independent developer and his standards are VERY high, so if you have questions about the software, he's really good about providing helpful information. It really deserves



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Walter Soyka
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on Apr 24, 2013 at 3:18:17 pm

Thank you, Shawn.

[Shawn Miller] "You can punch holes in meshes without mangling polygons, it's great for creating very smooth, curvy surfaces and the OBJ exporter produces fantastically clean objects."

This part in particular sounds really nice. I'll give it a spin on my next project.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Why we will be choosing PremierePro over FCPX
on May 9, 2013 at 7:56:00 am

After the introduction of Adobe CC, I am starting to regret this decision...

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x Prod. bundle CS6, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Ethernet File Server w. X-Raid.... and FCPX on trial


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