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One good thing about X

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Scott Sheriff
One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 2:14:28 am

If it gets discontinued a year or so down the road, you will only be out $300, and not $1,300 or $999 like others are.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Bret Williams
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 3:11:57 am

So far it costs $100 more than my fcs3 upgrade was - so I don't see the point.


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Chris Harlan
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 3:27:14 am

It has better audio meters. You can't move them around, but they aren't those absurdly skinny things any more.


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Scott Sheriff
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 3:51:32 am

[Chris Harlan] "It has better audio meters. You can't move them around, but they aren't those absurdly skinny things any more."

FYI, there are a bunch of free plugins for 6-7 for meters. Bigger, analog, digital, lots of different flavors.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Chris Harlan
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:36:54 am

Really? I didn't know that! Got a name or a link?


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Scott Sheriff
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:32:16 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Really? I didn't know that! Got a name or a link?"

Here's one
http://www.coremelt.com/products/coremeltfree.html

Check out VeeYou at the bottom of the list.
I had another one bookmarked, but the link is dead.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Chris Harlan
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:26:20 pm

Cool. Thanks!


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Matt Callac
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 7:10:36 am

[Scott Sheriff] "If it gets discontinued a year or so down the road, you will only be out $300, and not $1,300 or $999 like others are.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com"


how would you be "out" any money. Did you not make any money off running the software? If you made more than $999 from your use of FCS you got a return on your investment.

-mattyc


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Scott Sheriff
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:48:04 pm

[Matt Callac] "how would you be "out" any money. Did you not make any money off running the software? If you made more than $999 from your use of FCS you got a return on your investment."

I know you're one of the apple certified apologists on this forum, and I was half tempted to just ignore this, but since you asked.

Not even considering the substantial investment in apple hardware, I paid $1,300 for a piece of software. Besides the software itself, part of what I'm paying for is service, support and communication.
An example is FCS3 was $999 for new users or $299 for previous FCS owners. Now that option to purchase that upgrade has been removed without warning.
Something else I paid for. The Pro Aps update has been removed from the apple web site, again without notice.
Another thing I paid for. FCS was advertised as a professional level product. Professional companies don't discontinue products without proper notice.
I have worked in broadcast TV since '81. In that time I have seen plenty of hardware discontinued. With the exception of companies that just went broke, I have never seen something like this happen. It is just not acceptable. GVG, Ampex, CMX , Sony and companies at that level would usually notify customers of discontinuance of production and/or support well in advance of the actual event. And discontinued products were still supported for quite some time. And when that time was up, advance notice was given. Apples cloak and dagger methods are far, far from professional. When did having to rely on rumor sites for information become acceptable?
The kool-aid drinking fanboys need to watch 'The Dog Whisperer' with Ceasar Millan. They would learn that when you reward bad behavior, you just get more of it. You may be as giddy as a school girl on prom night right now, but you need to look at apples past behavior. Because if you do that, you will see your what the future relationship is going to be like. They dumped Shake, Final Cut Server, Xserve, Final Cut Express, and of course Final Cut Studio without warning. They drug their feet on updates and kept the customers in the dark.
What makes you think you will be treated any differently? Because you spent a whopping $300 on an ap that apple will now suddenly start diligently updating X every six months and keeping the users in the loop?
In your dreams.
If past performance is a predictor of the future, I hope you love what you have now, and are not counting on some nebulous future update they may never come.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Matt Callac
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 7:00:57 pm

[Scott Sheriff] "Not even considering the substantial investment in apple hardware, I paid $1,300 for a piece of software. Besides the software itself, part of what I'm paying for is service, support and communication.
An example is FCS3 was $999 for new users or $299 for"


You're still skirting the issue. You may have paid whatever amount for the computer+software, But you aren't "out" that money you invested in the software hardware UNLESS you got NO return on investment. If you used your system to make a living....you got a return on your investment. Furthermore, your current FCP still works Just as well as it did last week. So you still have a working edit system, Hence, you aren't "out" any money. All investments in Good's have a shelf life (depreciation). That's to be expected. Does apple's current behavior significantly affect the shelf life of the goods you've purchased from them? Most likely not (in my view) but partly that's still to be seen.

Personally I don't care what people do...It's up to them. I don't have any financial ties to any company or software. I work at a post house, I don't own it. It only helps me in the long run to be able to adapt to new platforms.

YES apple Screwed up by Naming this product Version X (10) in Final Cut Pro when it's an entirely new product.
YES their secrecy about everything Sucks terribly.
YES They shouldn't have immediately pulled FCS 3 and support.

I"m by no mean's a fanboy, and actually sent a bitching email to a friend of mine two weeks ago about how apple's really been pissing me off lately. But i'm trying to stay somewhat rational about things, and untill Apple comes out and says. "We don't care about Creative Profesionals because we just want to sell as many units of our software as possible," I'll still be hopefull that this Application is the future foundation for NLE's.

-mattyc


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Scott Sheriff
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 7:35:13 pm

[Matt Callac] "Does apple's current behavior significantly affect the shelf life of the goods you've purchased from them?"

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.
Yes. And for the reasons I just stated, and more.

Actually I do know why this is so hard for you to understand, but I'm trying to use some decorum.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Matt Callac
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 24, 2011 at 8:22:56 pm

Are you telling me that you PAY apple for Support and Communication in the past and that have provided it? Because that's not the apple support I know if. If apple had good software support for their ProApps the FCP Forum on the cow would not be as popular as it is. I once called apple when they released Qmaster as part of the Studio bundle. I needed support b/c it wasn't working properly. They told me that product wasn't covered under The Application support. So they sold me a product as part of a bundle but I don't get support for that product?

If that's what you're complaining about losing...Fine. That has merit, I've never found it helpful at all.

Just because Support ends for a product doesn't mean it's unusable. Some people are still running FCP 4 and making money doing so.

Here's an analogy. I bought a Pontiac G6 in 2006. In 2009 GM ends the pontiac line. Am I out $16,000 now? No. I still have a car that runs and does everything it did before. Do I lose the existing warranty that I was in. Maybe, But but really that only becomes an issue if something fails on the car. Now I might have to pay out of pocket if something fails in the last year of my 3 year warranty.

-mattyc


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Scott Sheriff
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 25, 2011 at 5:01:32 am

[Matt Callac] "Here's an analogy. I bought a Pontiac G6 in 2006. In 2009 GM ends the pontiac line."

I'm glad you brought that up. Did you know that auto dealers are required to provide parts support for ten years? This is why 40 years after the fact there is so much NOS parts floating around. They have to make sure they make enough to satisfy that requirement.

As I have said a hundred times, support (updates) and communication is something that goes with a professional equipment. I don't give a rats ass about how apple does it, because my point is they advertised and sold this as a professional solution. Quit making excuses for apple, and trying to put the blame on the users. I bought a professional editing, mixing, conform, and motion graphics package. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect 5 years of life and support. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect some notice of discontinuation. If you think that it is OK for apple to do this, just because it's apple, well then you're a blockhead. And I don't really think you are, so why don't you get on the side of the good guys and quit attacking those of us who have been left high and dry. It is never OK for a corporation to make false and inflated claims to sell something. And it does not make it OK because everyone should have known this how they do it.
So when those folks that took the FCS certification class in the last six months or less post with complaints, are you going to tell them they didn't suffer any loss because that info is still in their head? Or that is just how apple is?

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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David Roth Weiss
Re: One good thing about X
on Jun 25, 2011 at 6:28:22 am

[Scott Sheriff] " I bought a professional editing, mixing, conform, and motion graphics package. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect 5 years of life and support. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect some notice of discontinuation. "

There's no doubt about it, a company like Apple should, as a normal course of doing business and as a courtesy to its customers (especially its business customers), have a well-documented policy that fully explains it's on-going commitment of support for it's discontinued products for a period of years after the product end of life is announced.

According to published reports, Apple pulled Final Cut Studio 3 from the shelves a week in advance of the release of FCP X. The company then declared it officially a "dead product" on the same day as their release of the FCP X, with no warnings and with no official statements about any of it's plans for on-going support. To date there is still no official word from Apple regarding the future availability of the files necessary to manage and maintain the 2-million FCS 3 installations the company claims it has sold worldwide.

No matter what your feelings might be about FCP X, it's hard, if not impossible, to deny that Apple's decisions and handling of the end of life of Final Cut Studio have tarnished it's good reputation. It's not too late to admit a mistake; if Apple would just say "oops," it can still avoid a shameful stain on the company's good name.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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