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The Future of Editing

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

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Greg Andonian
The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 12:30:10 am

I was thinking, If Apple really is skating to where the puck will be and FCPX really is the future of editing, you would expect the users of other NLEs to want their preffered NLE to follow in its footsteps, right?

With that in mind, to me it's very telling that Premiere Pro 7- which Adobe, as we all know, has built with a heavy emphasis on user feedback and requests- has gone in the exact opposite direction, and people are now cheering the fact that FCP Legacy- which Apple destroyed so they could focus on showing us the future of editing- has now been re-incarnated.

To use the Henry Ford analogy, Premiere Pro 7 is a "Faster Horse" from Apple's point of view. But the fact that it was user feedback that made Premiere what it is now, two years after "the future" was shown to us, makes me wonder- Was Apple totally wrong to take their NLE in the direction they did?

Or, could it be that, to paraphrase Marty McFly, we just aren't ready for X yet- But our kids are gonna love it.... ?

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Craig Seeman
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 12:49:50 am

Even if you love the FCPX paradigm it's taken close to two years to get most of the features a "pro" would use and there's still more to grow to get there for many pros to even consider.

If anything we may see divergent paths rather than a uniform future. Greater diversity.

There's certainly a lot interest in FCPX. If people didn't want to learn it the Techniques forum would be dead and the Trainers would have all moved on.



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Ievgenii Larin
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:22:41 am

Adobe is flirting too much with FCP7 editors. I guess Adobe is risking to stuck in the past if they continue to appease editors with things they've already seen in FCP7, not trying to create something different.


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Charlie Austin
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:35:29 am

[Ievgenii Larin] "Adobe is flirting too much with FCP7 editors. I guess Adobe is risking to stuck in the past if they continue to appease editors with things they've already seen in FCP7, not trying to create something different."

Well, that's their market for Pr right now. They may even snag some Avid folks, though MC 7 looks like it'll slow that down. Apple already skated to the puck, but that puck is in a scary neighborhood for some folks right now.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Chris Harlan
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:38:20 am

[Charlie Austin] "Apple already skated to the puck, but that puck is in a scary neighborhood for some folks right now.
"


Or at least a neighborhood without proper streets, and no way of telling which lane the cars are actually in.


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Charlie Austin
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:41:20 am

[Chris Harlan] "[Charlie Austin] "Apple already skated to the puck, but that puck is in a scary neighborhood for some folks right now.
"

Or at least a neighborhood without proper streets, and no way of telling which lane the cars are actually in."


LOL... Yeah, that too. For now. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Cherniack
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:47:11 am

[Charlie Austin] "Or at least a neighborhood without proper streets, and no way of telling which lane the cars are actually in."

LOL... Yeah, that too. For now. :-)"


Streets and Lanes? Sounds too much like Google Maps for Apple to go down that road.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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David Cherniack
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:41:14 am

[Ievgenii Larin] " I guess Adobe is risking to stuck in the past if they continue to appease editors with things they've already seen in FCP7, not trying to create something different."

When you've actually seen it for yourself you can form an opinion that's based on fact, not hearsay or belief.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Ievgenii Larin
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 2:49:21 am

I can agree with your statement to some extent.

The other day I was watching Larry Jordan's thoughts on FCPX release. He said, there is only one company on the planet that can rethink process of video editing. It's Apple.

I was listening to one of That Post Show episodes with Bob Russo from Avid. Bob said that they would rather compete against Adobe or Authodesk, than Apple.

I hear these little evidences from different sources constantly.

P.S. Maybe the main reason I belive in Apple's paradigm is that release of FCPX allowed me to make money by editing video for web faster and smoother.


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Herb Sevush
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:39:36 pm

[Ievgenii Larin] "He said, there is only one company on the planet that can rethink process of video editing. It's Apple."

Which begs the question "why bother rethinking the process of video editing?" You could rethink the car as well - why not 3 wheels or 5 wheels, or lower to the ground, or made out of parmessian cheese? Many people have gone broke trying to rethink the car because the car as designed has evolved efficiently over the years. Now the point is to make it safer and more fuel efficient.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bernhard Grininger
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 3:22:27 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Which begs the question "why bother rethinking the process of video editing?""


I think what Apple has addressed with FCP-X is the increasing number of one-man-bands with it's promise to have 90% of features for 90% of tasks available at the finger tips.

Many folks don't have the time to learn 20 apps. But with huge and affordable packages it became a matter of course to be skilled in all of it's apps.

The last 10 years can be characterized as an age of democratization. Features became available by bundling huge software packages, but also were inconsistently distributed among several apps.

IF Apple is right, then the next 10 years will be characterized as an age of consolidation. Features will be re-thought in the context of current market requirements and clustered into apps that fulfill those clusters of requirement. Other good examples for such processes are ClarisseIFX and HitFilm.


Best regards,
Bernhard


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Mark Raudonis
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 3:28:05 pm

[Herb Sevush] "You could rethink the car as well "

It's already been done. Car "2.0" is called a "TESLA Model S"!

Test drive it and you'll know you've seen the future of automobile transportation.

Mark



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Gordon Modin
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 2:53:02 am

[Ievgenii Larin] " I guess Adobe is risking to stuck in the past if they continue to appease editors with things they've already seen in FCP7, not trying to create something different."

David: When you've actually seen it for yourself you can form an opinion that's based on fact, not hearsay or belief.


David, you are very correct in saying that a person has to witness something for themselves before they can make a complete judgement. That said, I have been using the software for the last 3 weeks and I am totally blow away by it. I used to be co-leader of the Seattle Final Cut Users Group, but have not only switched to Adobe Premiere, but have started up the Seattle Adobe Premiere Users Group simply because I am so impressed with what Adobe has accomplished and can't wait to show everyone else.

http://www.meetup.com/Seattle-Adobe-Premiere-Users-Group-and-related-softwa...

Over a year ago I and 30 other editors were in Adobe's San Jose offices to view an early CS6. They looked us right in the eye and stated how they wanted to make the type of software we, as editors, would be proud to use. I gave my 2ยข just like everybody else and you are seeing the results. Once you get behind the mouse and start using Adobe Premiere Next you will form your own opinion, but I guarantee that it will put a smile on your face.

Adobe has finally made Premiere the true hub it needs to be for the future. Photoshop used to be the hub, but is now one of the Dynamic Links just like After Effects, Speedgrade, Prelude, Story, Encore (no upgrade this time), and Audition. Speaking of Audition, it is the hidden gem of the entire suite. Not enough emphasis has been put on it's features. A fully featured rival to Pro Tools to be sure.

http://success.adobe.com/en/na/programs/events/1303_30759_nab.html?sdid=KEY...

Gordon Modin
Seattle Adobe Premiere Users Group


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Angelo Lorenzo
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 4:03:45 am

Audition is phenomenal. Form what I know it has good penetration in radio broadcast since it's inception as Cool Edit Pro. Many stations use it to cut and mix loops for promos and so on. Shame it hasn't caught on with studio users.

--------------------
Angelo Lorenzo

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Chris Harlan
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 4:08:21 am

[Angelo Lorenzo] "Audition is phenomenal. Form what I know it has good penetration in radio broadcast since it's inception as Cool Edit Pro. Many stations use it to cut and mix loops for promos and so on. Shame it hasn't caught on with studio users."

Yes. I did a Sizzle mix with it recently and quite enjoyed it. Very full featured.


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Steve Connor
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 8:14:29 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but Speedgrade doesn't have dynamic link in the new version?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Kevin Monahan
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 6:47:38 pm

[Steve Connor] "Correct me if I'm wrong but Speedgrade doesn't have dynamic link in the new version?"

Not quite yet. Make a feature request to add your voice: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

We do have the Lumetri effect now, though. You can create a .look in SpeedGrade and save it. Then in Premiere Pro, add the Lumetri effect to a clip (or adjustment layer). The effect will allow you to open and apply the .look (or LUT). We also have presets you can apply. You can edit your .look back in SpeedGrade if you need to alter the grade.

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Steve Connor
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 10:44:17 pm

[Kevin Monahan] "Not quite yet. Make a feature request to add your voice: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

We do have the Lumetri effect now, though. You can create a .look in SpeedGrade and save it. Then in Premiere Pro, add the Lumetri effect to a clip (or adjustment layer). The effect will allow you to open and apply the .look (or LUT). We also have presets you can apply. You can edit your .look back in SpeedGrade if you need to alter the grade."


I"ll do that, I've spent some time on SpeedGrade and it's very good, I think dynamic link would be a major benefit and would certainly encourage me to use it more

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Greg Andonian
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 14, 2013 at 12:00:34 am

[Steve Connor] I've spent some time on SpeedGrade and it's very good, I think dynamic link would be a major benefit and would certainly encourage me to use it more

Dynamic linking to Speedgrade does sound really cool.

Of course, for that to work, Speedgrade would have to know what a .prproj is, so it can build your timeline into a Speedgrade project. Can Speedgrade open Premiere Projects yet?

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Kevin Monahan
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 14, 2013 at 5:08:35 pm

[Greg Andonian] "Dynamic linking to Speedgrade does sound really cool.

Of course, for that to work, Speedgrade would have to know what a .prproj is, so it can build your timeline into a Speedgrade project. Can Speedgrade open Premiere Projects yet?"


No, we know that our users really want dynamic linking between the projects, though, so keep those feature requests coming. Integration is not a trivial task, as you might imagine.

Keep in mind that new features will be rolling out all year on the Creative Cloud. Let's hope we don't have to wait too long to get ahold of this popular feature.

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Charlie Austin
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:24:01 am

[Greg Andonian] "it's very telling that Premiere Pro 7- which Adobe, as we all know, has built with a heavy emphasis on user feedback and requests- has gone in the exact opposite direction, and people are now cheering the fact that FCP Legacy- which Apple destroyed so they could focus on showing us the future of editing- has now been re-incarnated."

I think the reason Pr 7 seems like "legacy reincarnated" is because it's likely that the majority of those feature requests came from legacy users. As Craig points out, up until maybe a year ago, X wasn't really viable for pro work. It certainly is now, despite the fact that there is still more to be done. I don't think Apple were wrong, they just fumbled the initial release, which I think they know. At this point, as Craig points out, it's just a more diverse NLE world. A good thing. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Angelo Lorenzo
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 4:22:34 am

Now I haven't used FCPX, but from all accounts its initial release was like releasing Microsoft Word without a print button.

Most of these "legacy features" in Premiere are simply keyboard shortcuts and other UI improvements that FCP had been doing right in the past. Yeah, it courts to the migrating userbase... but that's what pays the bills. What people seem to forget about Adobe is their class-leading support of native formats, advanced algorithm effects like warp stabilizer, metadata supported workflows and so on. They're catching up with Avid in terms of media management and Adobe Anywhere looks to be on par with Avid's Interplay.

Avid is always there with their best-in-class support for multi-user editing and storage. Media Composer brings along a lot of features to match Premiere Next like LUT support and some new audio mixing features. Dynamic folders look very interesting.

I'm looking at FCPX and its feature list but I can't say there is any one feature that could save me more time with my workflow. No one thing makes me feel like it's a best-in-class solution for a particular problem. While event based bins look alright, they really only offer a big advantage to those with a lot b-roll, and only then you can emulate that workflow with metadata keywords. Auditioning clips seems interesting on the face of it, but I feel like it's more of a tool for the learning editor than the professional. It does the job but nothing makes me go WOW.

--------------------
Angelo Lorenzo

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Charlie Austin
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 4:26:12 am

[Angelo Lorenzo] "Now I haven't used FCPX, but from all accounts..."

You should try it.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Angelo Lorenzo
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 5:35:50 am

I'm a PC guy, my Mac hardware is pretty aged otherwise I'd give the demo a try. My last post isn't meant to be belligerent so much as, on the surface, I don't see anything enticing for the way I work.

--------------------
Angelo Lorenzo

Need to encode ProRes on your Windows PC?
Introducing ProRes Helper, an awesome little app that makes it possible
Fallen Empire Digital Production Services - Los Angeles
RED transcoding, on-set DIT, and RED Epic rental services
Fallen Empire - The Blog
A blog dedicated to filmmaking, the RED workflow, and DIT tips and tricks
Can your post production question fit in a tweet? Follow me on Twitter


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Charlie Austin
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 5:51:23 am

[Angelo Lorenzo] "I'm a PC guy, my Mac hardware is pretty aged otherwise I'd give the demo a try. My last post isn't meant to be belligerent so much as, on the surface, I don't see anything enticing for the way I work."

Didn't see it as belligerent, just suggesting checking out. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Chris Kenny
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 4:36:03 am

[Greg Andonian] "I was thinking, If Apple really is skating to where the puck will be and FCPX really is the future of editing, you would expect the users of other NLEs to want their preffered NLE to follow in its footsteps, right? "

In this metaphor, users are the puck. The whole point of skating to where the puck is going to be is that the puck isn't there yet. Now, maybe the puck gets there faster because you're there waiting for it (the metaphor starts to break down here), but it still takes time. This is an industry where some facilities take a couple of years to install a routine upgrade of the same software they already use. High end adoption of FCP X was never going to happen quickly.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Gary Huff
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:08:17 pm

[Chris Kenny] "Now, maybe the puck gets there faster because you're there waiting for it (the metaphor starts to break down here), but it still takes time."

The problem is that the "revolution" in editing is primarily the magnetic timeline...which doesn't exactly engender warm fuzzies...plenty of people touting workarounds to get around that magnetic timeline. In my own experience, I found it worked for me about 40-50% of the time, with the rest of the time it fought me in what I wanted to do.

Everything else in FCPX is basically a "faster horse", save for the database functionality which has already existed before (FCP Server) and has dubious benefit for someone like myself who tends to work on a one project basis and then archives it off into cold storage.


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Charlie Austin
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 13, 2013 at 5:06:15 pm

[Gary Huff] "The problem is that the "revolution" in editing is primarily the magnetic timeline...which doesn't exactly engender warm fuzzies...plenty of people touting workarounds to get around that magnetic timeline. In my own experience, I found it worked for me about 40-50% of the time, with the rest of the time it fought me in what I wanted to do.

I agree about the "warm fuzzies", and I also agree that magnetism, in it's current state, sometimes requires workarounds. I'm curious what you felt was fighting you. For me, the ability to group for visual and editorial organization, bus roles for mixing, and the ability to temporarily "lock" Roles would solve 99% of the issues I have. Even now though, as far as the actual mechanics of cutting, It really is a revolution for me. I jump back and forth between various NLE's, mostly 7 and X, but I have been in and out of Pr and MC recently as well. I feel like you do about X when I'm in the others. I'm fighting the rigidity of the timelines. Unlike some, I'm pretty confidant that Apple will improve the areas I noted above.

[Gary Huff] Everything else in FCPX is basically a "faster horse", save for the database functionality which has already existed before (FCP Server) and has dubious benefit for someone like myself who tends to work on a one project basis and then archives it off into cold storage."

Makes sense. For me, the database functionality of X is a huge benefit. Yes, all NLE's use metadata, some more than others, but the implementation in X saves me enormous amounts of time. Especially on jobs with boatloads of sources to slog through. I get that not everyone works the same way, and what works for me won't work for someone else.

Ultimately it really does come down to preference. At this point, IMO, the only major things lacking (there are plenty of little things, but no show stoppers -for me- really) in X are the TL improvements noted above, and better collaborative workflow options. The ability for multiple editors to simultaneously work with the same events/projects would be great for large organizations, and I'm confidant Apple is on this. As far as simply sharing or handing sequences and/or events back and forth like we've all done in FCP 7, X is pretty much there after the last update. Duplicate, give copy to other editor, they open it and go. Actually I only mention this because I just figured out an easy way to do it for our workflow :-)

It was easier to go from MC to FCP back in the day, and it's easier to move from 7 to Pr now. They look, and work, pretty much the same. MC is a stretch for people who've only worked on FCP, but at least it looks familiar. Ya know, what with tracks and all. ;-) I really believe that using X requires an editor to get over a sort of "hump" before it feels right. That's pretty much true of learning any new software though right? And I think that many folks, particularly those who are busy, don't get there. Whether due to time constraints, or just feeling like it's not worth it. That's not a "you just don't get it" statement, I had to push myself to get over it. For me, it was worth it. For others, maybe not. All I can tell you is that I spend more time cursing at the screen in other NLE's now because of all the stuff I now take for granted that they can't do. YMMV. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Gary Huff
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 14, 2013 at 3:30:42 pm

[Charlie Austin] "And I think that many folks, particularly those who are busy, don't get there. Whether due to time constraints, or just feeling like it's not worth it. That's not a "you just don't get it" statement, I had to push myself to get over it. For me, it was worth it. For others, maybe not. All I can tell you is that I spend more time cursing at the screen in other NLE's now because of all the stuff I now take for granted that they can't do. YMMV. :-)"

But here's the thing, it totally comes across as a "you just don't get it" statement. I have done an entire project in FCPX, and had both good times and bad. But, at the end of the day, it was simply refreshing for me to return to Premiere for then next project. I feel like I know FCPX pretty well, and I absolutely do not hate it. But it's a little too "pretty" in a way that takes up screen real-estate (not that Premiere couldn't use some UI overhaul itself), and ultimately it's just a different way of doing things...nothing of which I felt saved me time or headache.

[Charlie Austin] " I'm curious what you felt was fighting you."

Replacing clips in the timeline. My project was a music video and so it's the constantly evolving piece. I found that the clips would go out of sync with the music if you tried to replace or trim anything (say you wanted to shorten one clip and extend another to keep everything else surrounding it in time with the music, but just wanted to trim up a particular section to make it work better. FCPX would constantly move things around on you and when you selected the mode to add the gaps, then you'd have to remove the gaps, sometimes which left just the littlest black space in the video...totally annoying).


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Steve Connor
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 14, 2013 at 3:52:45 pm

Gary, were you using the Primary? for music edits I tend to do a rough assembly in the primary and then lift everything up into a secondary for fine cutting and finishing.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Craig Seeman
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 14, 2013 at 3:53:55 pm

[Gary Huff] "Replacing clips in the timeline. My project was a music video and so it's the constantly evolving piece. I found that the clips would go out of sync with the music if you tried to replace or trim anything (say you wanted to shorten one clip and extend another to keep everything else surrounding it in time with the music, but just wanted to trim up a particular section to make it work better. FCPX would constantly move things around on you and when you selected the mode to add the gaps, then you'd have to remove the gaps, sometimes which left just the littlest black space in the video...totally annoying)."

I'm wondering if this is more related to understanding the FCPX workflow and feature set. Connected clips and Secondary story lines don't lose sync if you've anchored them to music in the primary story line. It the purpose of clip connections.

If you're editing in the primary (this is a workflow choice when doing a music video) you can use the P tool rather than the A tool and everything stays put.

If the connected clips need to stay anchored to a point in the primary story line while things move there, you use the tilde key. And, unless Apple has broken the "secret feature" you can even lock the tilde key into an Always On state and the connected clips will stay put.

I find the only sync risk is when you must detach audio and I find I don't seem to need to do that much with the new audio component feature.

Granted some might find all the above a bit "modal" but, none the less, the functions are there to keep sync depending on the workflow. If a given workflow seems to be at higher risk for losing sync than perhaps the workflow is at issue.



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Charlie Austin
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 14, 2013 at 5:07:11 pm

[Gary Huff] "But here's the thing, it totally comes across as a "you just don't get it" statement. I have done an entire project in FCPX, and had both good times and bad. But, at the end of the day, it was simply refreshing for me to return to Premiere for then next project.

Fair enough, but I really didn't mean it in the seemingly condescending way that statement has been made at times. I was just describing a sort of "aha!" moment that seems pretty common when you use... really any new software.


[Gary Huff] I feel like I know FCPX pretty well, and I absolutely do not hate it. But it's a little too "pretty" in a way that takes up screen real-estate (not that Premiere couldn't use some UI overhaul itself), and ultimately it's just a different way of doing things...nothing of which I felt saved me time or headache.

I agree with you to some extent regarding the "prettiness", though in my workflow I find it pretty functional and it does save me time and headache. I also think the UI offers some interesting possibilities for added features. There's a lot of empty space. ;-) The speed at which X is evolving/improving is part of it's appeal for me...

[Gary Huff] [Charlie Austin] " I'm curious what you felt was fighting you."

Replacing clips in the timeline. My project was a music video and so it's the constantly evolving piece. I found that the clips would go out of sync with the music if you tried to replace or trim anything (say you wanted to shorten one clip and extend another to keep everything else surrounding it in time with the music, but just wanted to trim up a particular section to make it work better. FCPX would constantly move things around on you and when you selected the mode to add the gaps, then you'd have to remove the gaps, sometimes which left just the littlest black space in the video...totally annoying)."


The X timeline definitely needs some better ways to stop things from moving if you don't want them to. The tilde key is a huge improvement, but it falls short in some fairly significant situations. Match frame replace also needs to return. I know that Apple is aware of this stuff though, and I know they're serious about improving it, so it's perhaps not as frustrating to me. It's not a show stopper in my workflow, but even so, I think they'll fix this stuff.

As Steve and Craig point out, X has a different workflow than 7 or Pr. Again, I don't think it's meant in a "you don't have the keys to the castle" way. :-) If an editor moves from 7 or Pr to Media Composer without having used it before, they would have the same problem, if you can call it that. Ever watched an editor who's learned to cut on 7 or Pr use MC composer for the first time? It's hilarious. :evilgrin:

Ultimately, one NLE isn't "better" than the other except to the individual staring at the empty timeline feeling wondering how they're gonna fill it up. Personally I like staring at an empty X timeline. It's pretty. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Ty Vann
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 14, 2013 at 4:26:03 pm

Love the Cow for this endless debate on the merits of editing systems. I guess that's the point. It's an end in itself, and most of it is about the technology and different variations on the same task by the NLE systems. That difference is actually not that big. That's where this debate sometimes turns tedious. Because no matter the differences between the NLE tools and their iterations, editing is and will always be about visual storytelling. The language of motion picture storytelling, editing, will always be the same. The future of editing is the past of editing.

So what I look for in an NLE is the ability to stay out of the way and allow me to put a story together in the most efficient way. The best NLEs should strive for that. None has come close yet, though it seems Apple is creating a path to go in that direction.


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Craig Seeman
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 14, 2013 at 6:03:25 pm

[Ty Vann] "Love the Cow for this endless debate on the merits of editing systems."

I find that this forum in particular serves a unique purpose.

To me it's very much about the editor and/or facility manager's decision making process in choosing their tools. I think that's very much the reason why we not only see discussions on various NLEs but, more broadly on other tools including computers, project management, etc.

One could say this forum is evolving into a "managers" forum where we can expose our system decision making process and/or those can learn from others who have been through that process.

One thing we can say, Apple's change from FCP7 to FCPX and at a time where the MacPro has been publicly dormant, has been the catalyst for a large number of decision makers.



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Michael Gissing
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 15, 2013 at 1:19:37 am

Every time I hear sport metaphors like "skating to the puck", I wonder why we use a metaphor that so inaccurately describes what the real world is like. Sure it helps sometimes to simplify but the premise is totally wrong.

As was so eloquently pointed out in another post, this isn't a zero sum game. Why is there a single puck? Apple seems to be chasing one market. Adobe & Avid are in another. Smoke is yet another market. Lots of pucks and no referee so game on.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 15, 2013 at 1:50:20 am

Marketing organizations, and their leaders, constantly strive to come up with phraseology which will resonate with the greatest number of people - hence, I think, the use of sports metaphors.

But as you say, the "skating to the puck" metaphor is so far off the mark as to be laughable. The end-user in the NLE world, in terms of needs for their craft, might be playing hockey, baseball, basketball, or curling (to bring the sports metaphor to its' nauseating conclusion). The needs are so diverse that any single sports metaphor is maddeningly narrow.

What do we edit? Feature films? Documentaries? Reality shows? Wedding videos? Spots? VNRs? News Packs? Each and every one of these disciplines requires a slightly different set of capabilities and features which might get nailed perfectly by an AVID, a Premiere Pro, an FCPX, an FCP7, a Liquid Chrome, or an Edit*. There have always been, and there always will be, users who feel that what they're currently using is just right for their needs at a particular moment in that product's development. And those who don't...

Like you say...there's no puck...and there's really no game...there's a creative person...and there's a toolset...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 15, 2013 at 5:59:55 pm

[Michael Gissing] "Every time I hear sport metaphors like "skating to the puck", "

It is such a maddening, ineffectual metaphor. It's about as useful as "buy low, sell high." Other than pointing out that you should be taking the future into account, it is meaningless. Furthermore, its adoption by an army of motivational speakers has turned it into a caution label for me, which translates as "WARNING: BS contained within."


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TImothy Auld
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 15, 2013 at 6:31:21 pm

How would we live without sports metaphors? In my football playing days I was constantly bombarded with the "There is no tomorrow!" nonsense. I would respond by pointing out what day of the week tomorrow was going to be.

Tim


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 15, 2013 at 6:57:15 pm

Hey, that gives me a thought - maybe by tossing around mixed metaphors, such as:

Change is now baked into the fabric of FCPX

How does FCPX play into the production equation?

We're kicking off the hockey season with some new FCPX features!

With all of the new Premiere Pro Features, Apple will have to step up to the plate and pick up the gauntlet.

Apple really needs to wake up and smell the music.

If we toss enough of these around long enough, someone will get the idea how ridiculous they sound, and give up it. You can take that to the bank and smoke it...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 15, 2013 at 7:18:58 pm

Two bit analysis not worth a plug nickel. That's my two cents.
;)



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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 15, 2013 at 7:21:39 pm

Now that's letting the cat off of second base!

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 17, 2013 at 12:59:19 am

Ah Joseph, you have opened a Pandora's can of worms.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: The Future of Editing
on Apr 17, 2013 at 1:04:57 am

That's because I don't know my *ss from second base...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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