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OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb

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Steve Connor
OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 9:21:30 am

http://eriknaso.com/2013/04/07/4k-global-shutter-black-magic-camera/

http://eriknaso.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/photo2.jpg

RED are dropping their announcements at the moment as well. You guys at NAB are going to be busy!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Craig Seeman
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 10:52:51 am

Imagine how someone might feel who just received delivery on the Blackmagic camera they ordered in 2012. No worries though, their new cameras won't be delivered until 2016



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Rafael Amador
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 11:23:30 am

[Craig Seeman] " their new cameras won't be delivered until 2016"
Whatever the wait, it won't ever be like for the REDs.
rafael


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Craig Seeman
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 11:50:07 am

[Rafael Amador] "Whatever the wait, it won't ever be like for the REDs."

Let us know when RED has a $4000 camera.
How is that a comparison?
Low budget indy filmmakers will have tools to shoot in a robust gradable codec.



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Steve Connor
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 12:10:35 pm

[Craig Seeman] "magine how someone might feel who just received delivery on the Blackmagic camera they ordered in 2012. No worries though, their new cameras won't be delivered until 2016"

We haven't had our camera long and I don't care, we made the price back in 2 jobs! My bet is you'll be seeing plenty of these cameras this year. BMD may have dropped the ball on the first one through no fault of their own, I'm betting this time they won't.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Gerrit Van Dyke
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 12:13:34 pm

Wow! Sounds too good to be true.

I'm hardly a camera expert, but this sounds like a game-changer to me. An incredibly affordable 4k camera with a 35mm sensor? I'm waiting to hear the downside...


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David Cherniack
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 1:05:41 pm

4k for 4k...hmmm...where have I heard that before? Good on Grant.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Rafael Amador
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 1:37:38 pm

[Craig Seeman] "No worries though, their new cameras won't be delivered until 2016"
[Craig Seeman] "[Rafael Amador] "Whatever the wait, it won't ever be like for the REDs."

Let us know when RED has a $4000 camera.
How is that a comparison?"

Craig,
I wan't comparing cameras.
I was talking about the waiting time from announcement to release.
Epic and Scarlet took years.
rafael


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Craig Seeman
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 1:50:42 pm

[Rafael Amador] "Epic and Scarlet took years."

As may Blackmagic (take years) or are you saying BM is faster at delivery than RED. I assumed you meant they were slower.



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Lance Bachelder
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 2:05:34 pm

It took over 3 years and 4 NAB's for Red to show a Scarlet - which of course was nothing like the design/price of the original announcement. I think BMD can do better than that :)

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Rafael Amador
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 2:30:01 pm

[Craig Seeman] "As may Blackmagic (take years) or are you saying BM is faster at delivery than RED. I assumed you meant they were slower."
They started to talk about Epic and Scarlet soon after they released the first RED ONE (2007).
They didn't start shipping till 2011.
rafael


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Craig Seeman
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 8, 2013 at 2:37:50 pm

Thanks for that.

Seems Blackmagic may beat that schedule in a walk. I wonder if RED will feel market erosion as well.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 4:27:46 pm

The real shocker is "shipping July"
Even if it took them until the end of the year that would be good.
This is very close to the "too good to be true" category.

Heck for the $995 DSLR like shaped super 16 sensor sized camera.... you're going to see a lot of nicely graded cat videos on YouTube. ;)

Nice FCPX screenshot in their 4K camera marketing page. 8->



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Shawn Miller
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 4:52:07 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Heck for the $995 DSLR like shaped super 16 sensor sized camera.... you're going to see a lot of nicely graded cat videos on YouTube. ;)"

Too true! I think this also has the potential to become the other go to b-roll camera in every shooter's bag (next to the GoPro). I'm seriously considering ordering two. :-)

Shawn



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Tim Wilson
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 5:41:54 pm

[Shawn Miller] "you're going to see a lot of nicely graded cat videos on YouTube. ;)"

Too true! "


If anybody tried to make the case that the most common use for the Vision Research Phantom HD camera is NOT super slo-mo cat video, I'd laugh in their faces. Needless to say, nobody is trying to make that case.

My theory is that the first BMD camera was running late because of sensor supply issues. I wonder if that's the one part of the supply chain that was beyond their control? And now that the logjam is busted, they can more reliably MEAN July when they SAY July.

All supposition. I assure you that nobody in the industry tells me anything important. LOL

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW



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Shawn Miller
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 6:58:32 pm

[Tim Wilson] "If anybody tried to make the case that the most common use for the Vision Research Phantom HD camera is NOT super slo-mo cat video, I'd laugh in their faces. Needless to say, nobody is trying to make that case."

LOL, sad but true... cats, breaking glass and exploding water balloons. @ $995, I think there will be a plethora of 'test' footage from this camera on YouTube, much like the bevy of skate videos shot with the GoPro... I also think the BM Pocket Cinema Camera is going to become a staple in the professional shooter's camera bag... like the GoPro. :-)

[Tim Wilson] "My theory is that the first BMD camera was running late because of sensor supply issues. I wonder if that's the one part of the supply chain that was beyond their control? And now that the logjam is busted, they can more reliably MEAN July when they SAY July."

That's what I understood as well. If BM can make good on the release dates in big numbers, we may be seeing the end of h.264 cameras for professionals.

Time will tell. :-)

Shawn



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Steve Connor
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 7:11:23 pm

Despite the great products and incredible price the moaning and whinging around the BMD sites is amazing.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 7:18:36 pm

[Steve Connor] "Despite the great products and incredible price the moaning and whinging around the BMD sites is amazing."

Are they mad about the specs or mad about the timing relative to the original BMCC?




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Rafael Amador
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 7:18:58 pm

And the 4K sister with Global Shutter.
Or the Japanese react, or they are off.
rafael


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 7:43:44 pm

[Shawn Miller] "we may be seeing the end of h.264 cameras for professionals."

Can I somehow, hold you to this statement?

Please? :)

Jeremy


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Tim Wilson
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 7:57:22 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "[Shawn Miller] "we may be seeing the end of h.264 cameras for professionals."

Can I somehow, hold you to this statement?"


Might be easier to just buy the client the camera for $999 and be glad for not having the years taken off your life by having to wrangle straight H.264.

Saving years taken off your life is as good as earning years added to your life, right?

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 8:43:06 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Saving years taken off your life is as good as earning years added to your life, right?"

Something like that, yes.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 9:50:30 pm

I don't know, Tim...is it better to be a younger guy who knows as much as the experienced geezer, or the experienced geezer who can't remember what he knew when he was young? I'm confused...but old age isn't so bad when you consider the alternative...(stolen from Maurice Chevalier)

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Tim Wilson
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 8, 2013 at 10:05:56 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "but old age isn't so bad when you consider the alternative"

I'm a huge fan of old age. HUGE.

I'm just saying that working with consumer H.264 in a pro context might take years off your life.

Is it worth $999 to buy a BMD camera, HAND it to your client, say "Use this" to buy a longer, happier life? Perhaps so. :-)

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW



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Rafael Amador
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 9, 2013 at 2:58:17 am

I'm not a fan of the H264/Mp4/AVCHD family for acquisition, but being the data rate of Prores422 some five folds higher than the average codecs used by consumer/prosumers camcorder, the need for storage will deter most people to buy this camera.
rafael


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Eric Santiago
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 9, 2013 at 4:31:54 am

Being a Scarlet owner I could sound biased but IMHO they are not the in the same boat as say the current EPIC.
If the frame rates were higher and the color science and data delivery (workflow and all) were close then maybe.


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Steve Connor
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 9, 2013 at 8:36:31 am

You mean the BMD camera isn't in the same league as one that costs at least 7 times the price?

Based on our BMD camera I'd also argue that the colour science is actually very good

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Eric Santiago
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 9, 2013 at 11:33:46 pm

[Steve Connor] "You mean the BMD camera isn't in the same league as one that costs at least 7 times the price?

Based on our BMD camera I'd also argue that the colour science is actually very good

Steve Connor
"

Exactly as far as pricing goes.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 9, 2013 at 5:10:41 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "[Shawn Miller] "we may be seeing the end of h.264 cameras for professionals."

Can I somehow, hold you to this statement?

Please? :)

Jeremy"


Ha ha ha sure, but with a strong emphasis on the "may be" part... as in, "man I am REALLY hoping". :-)

Shawn



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Lance Bachelder
Re: Now on the BM website
on Apr 9, 2013 at 6:19:24 am

The small cam just looks silly but I still want both of them - BMD is kinda doing what Red started out with the first Scarlet announcement. Now Red is charging 6 grand for a recording module...

Tough to even get near them through the crowds:





Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Rick Lang
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 9, 2013 at 12:58:25 pm

Of course it is too good to be true because BMD just can't avoid marketing hype. The crop factor compared to a full frame 35mm camera is 1.7x which as you know is slightly greater than Canon APS-C at 1.62 and Super35 about 1.44. Regardless of the marketing hyperbole, it appears the BMPC4K is great value at $3,995 with 12 stops of dynamic range and a global shutter with a resolution of 3840x2160. If course we need to see what the actual image quality is like since it is a different sensor than on the BMCC and the BMPC.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Shawn Miller
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 9, 2013 at 3:01:53 pm

[Rick Lang] "Of course it is too good to be true because BMD just can't avoid marketing hype. The crop factor compared to a full frame 35mm camera is 1.7x which as you know is slightly greater than Canon APS-C at 1.62 and Super35 about 1.44. Regardless of the marketing hyperbole"

Hey Rick,

I'm not sure I understand your point. FF 35 is a standard for stills photography... the BMPC4K sensor is all of 4 millimeters smaller (diagonally) than Super 35mm film... which is the gold standard for cinema. Are you saying that Blackmagic is somehow comparing their sensor to FF?

Thanks,

Shawn



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Rick Lang
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 9, 2013 at 3:17:16 pm

Shawn, I am not saying BMD is comparing their new sensor to full frame. I was just pointing out that the 'crop factor' compared to APS-C is a bit greater. I understand that the cinematographer's yardstick is Super35 which has a larger size than both APS-C and the new BMPC4K sensor. I really think BMD has a winner with their BMPC4K version and it is close enough in size that it will have the caché of S35 in terms of typical shallow depth of field and so on. I was merely responding to the "too good to be true" comment and pointing out that it isn't quite up to the marketing department's claims but for all intents and purposes it is an amazing offering. We all have our fingers crossed that the raw image quality will approach that of the wonderful image from the BMCC EF 2.5K original camera announced last year at NAB2012 and just now shipping in volume. Can't get too excited until we start to see what the pictures are like. If it nearly matches the BMCC "baby Alexa", what nickname will this one have with the larger sensor? The "little brother" of the Alexa?

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Steve Connor
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 9, 2013 at 3:18:31 pm

[Rick Lang] " We all have our fingers crossed that the raw image quality will approach that of the wonderful image from the BMCC EF 2.5K original camera"

Me too!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Rafael Amador
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 9, 2013 at 3:25:26 pm

I expect a new version of the BMCC 2.5K with Global Shutter.
rafael


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Rick Lang
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 9, 2013 at 3:53:48 pm

Steve, at this point I plan to order the BMPC4K after reviewing the image it produces in various lighting conditions. I assume you are going to do the same or do you want to get an early order in and cancel if it doesn't measure up after all? I am in Canada but Adorama has a neat deal for Canadians that includes all taxes, duty, and shipping at the time of shipping so that I'd likely where I'd place an order.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Steve Connor
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 9, 2013 at 3:59:44 pm

[Rick Lang] "Steve, at this point I plan to order the BMPC4K after reviewing the image it produces in various lighting conditions. I assume you are going to do the same or do you want to get an early order in and cancel if it doesn't measure up after all? I am in Canada but Adorama has a neat deal for Canadians that includes all taxes, duty, and shipping at the time of shipping so that I'd likely where I'd place an order."

We're going to stick with the BMCC V1 we have at the moment and buy a BMPC4K much later in the year. We have a Sony F55 too so 4K is covered at the moment.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Shawn Miller
Re: OT NAB 2013 - Blackmagic drop another bomb
on Apr 9, 2013 at 4:14:16 pm

[Rick Lang] " I was merely responding to the "too good to be true" comment and pointing out that it isn't quite up to the marketing department's claims but for all intents and purposes it is an amazing offering."

Ah, I understand. To be fair though, you would also have to say the same thing of Sony and Arri, since both use sensors that are slightly smaller than Super 35. :-) Otherwise, I agree with everything else you're saying. If these cameras deliver a good quality picture AND make it to market relatively quickly in big enough numbers, Blackmagic might actually push bigger manufacturers to make better, less expensive offerings (fingers crossed). I am really looking forward to owning the BMPC4K and possibly two BMPCCs... Like you, I just hope that the products live up to the hype.

Shawn



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