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Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation

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Shaun Gish
Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation
on Jun 23, 2011 at 11:31:31 pm

So... this struck me today and I haven't seen anything posted about it (and it could potentially drastically mess with all of the FCP switchers out there):

When Lion comes out and all of the video is based on AV Foundation instead of quicktime how exactly will everyone be able to use Premiere/Avid/etc on mac? Does this mean that Adobe/Avid will have to re-write their apps to be built around AV Foundation? Obviously this is a pretty major undertaking.

Does this mean that us pros will end up having to switch to Linux based (or *gasp* Windows based) workstations to use an editing app that is geared toward pros?


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Nate Weaver
Re: Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation
on Jun 23, 2011 at 11:44:04 pm

Quicktime and AV Foundation can live concurrently on the same machine. As it is now, Phillip Hodgetts is saying AV Foundation is a private framework that lives inside FCPX at the moment, so it's only avail to FCPX.

I doubt QuickTime is going anywhere soon. Not only is it a framework for decoding audio and media, it's also a media file container (ProRes mov, anyone?).

As I understand it, AV Foundation exists so FCP can use non-QT media in a faster, less resource intensive manner. An ArsTechnica article a while back got into the nitty gritty of the differences between QT and QT X, and from a tech standpoint, QT had to use a lot of memory and gymnastics to deal with GOP-based codecs...far from ideal for things like FCP.

I expect QuickTime will be around for quite a while, as a file container if nothing else. Also, many 3rd party software rely on those APIs to get work done, not just video apps, so they'd be screwing a lot more apps over than just Avid and Adobe.

Nate Weaver
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http://www.nateweaver.net


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Tony Silanskas
Re: Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation
on Jun 23, 2011 at 11:46:00 pm

I think you're getting a little too scared too soon as Lion is still not even out. AV Foundation is definitely a major change, just like the original QuickTime was. But the potential it holds to push NLEs forward into much better waters is very exciting. Haven't heard anything from Adobe or Avid yet (probably b/c of NDAs) but I bet they are being forced to move their code to something much better than what we have today and I'm fine with that. More competition and keeps them from resting on their laurels. Just might take awhile as it seems to always do.

tony

http://www.HungryCliff.com


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Shaun Gish
Re: Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation
on Jun 23, 2011 at 11:49:28 pm

I agree that AV Foundation is a solid move for video in general. What scares me is that it basically could be "privatized" very quickly by apple if they decide they want to push users to FCPX's new approach.

Also - AV Foundation isn't just self contained in FCPX - it's the entire A/V framework for iOS (and soon to be the entire A/V framework for Lion and future OS releases). That's what scares me.


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Peter Blumenstock
Re: Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation
on Jun 23, 2011 at 11:49:45 pm

I haven't heard any warning signs with respect to that possibly happening and developer previews of Lion are out there. Even the old FCP seems to run, for now. Obviously all that will probably change another OS generation down the road or I may be totally wrong and it even changes in a couple of weeks when Lion goes online. But to be quite honest, at this point I couldn't care less if I have to drop Apple alltogether.
Actually, I have been close to doing this several times and the only thing that kept me back was habit and fcp. I have workstations running windows for blu-ray authoring and I have absolutely nothing bad to say about Windows 7. My video IO works just fine under windows, too, future hardware will be a lot cheaper and I can crossgrade all relevant software that is currenty on the Mac if need be.


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Craig Wall
Re: Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation
on Jun 24, 2011 at 12:13:15 am

When one considers how hostile Apple has been towards Adobe (in particular the Flash war) and how Apple has been unhesitant to use a draconian cattle prod (pushing users of the FCP7 off the cliff towards an uncertain FCPX)...

Maybe it's wise to be a little afraid here.

It's a brave new world...and Apple seems increasingly unafraid to play bully.

Life is full of funny particles.


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Shaun Gish
Re: Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation
on Jun 24, 2011 at 12:44:24 am

This.


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Dylan Reeve
Re: Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:52:01 am

Personally I doubt that FCP 7 will run more than a few versions into the future on OS X. Almost every major OS update that I can recall doing required FCP/ProApps updates as well, and there won't be any more of those.

Obviously there's no reason to think your current hardware and software will just stop working, but upgrading OS and hardware especially does change the playing field.



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Craig Wall
Re: Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:56:38 am

I think we will see another expensive disruption...similar to the migration to 64 bit.

Quicktime will get pushed off the cliff in a few years. Adobe, Avid, etc. will be forced to change their underlying architecture, as will the plugin makers.

For end-users it will be a costly headache. I hope it's worth it in the end.

Life is full of funny particles.


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Chris Kenny
Re: Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation
on Jun 24, 2011 at 3:02:46 pm

[Craig Wall] "Quicktime will get pushed off the cliff in a few years. Adobe, Avid, etc. will be forced to change their underlying architecture, as will the plugin makers."

QuickTime might get pushed off a cliff in few years, possibly along with the rest of 32-bit Carbon. But Adobe and Avid apps have their own internal media architectures. As far as I know, they just talk to QuickTime to handle I/O in QuickTime formats. They could talk to AVFoundation instead. In fact, I imagine they'd like to replace QuickTime dependencies; it's pretty long in the tooth these days.

--
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Geert van den Berg
Re: Scary Question about Quicktime/AV Foundation
on Jun 24, 2011 at 8:53:59 am

Isn't Adobe Premiere now built on top of their own Mercury Engine? It can work with QuickTime but doesn't depend on it. (I am not a Premiere user, so my comment is only based on what I've read)

And I'd expect that the inside of Avid software is also not relying on Quicktime. Its main file format is a custom type of mxf and it's own codec type DNxHD.

So I wouldn't worry about FCPx pushing these packages in a corner.


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