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What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?

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David Powell
What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 8:13:06 am

Well it looks like I'm going to start cutting projects in CS6 pretty soon as that is what the client wants. I am very well versed on MC, FCP7 and X. But for those who use PP and have used MC/Legacy, I want to know which areas of PP will throw me the most or get me into the most trouble so I can focus on those concepts. Or what are the "man this really sucks compared to MC/Legacy" shortcomings that you noticed.

I would just like to be aware of some of the more eyebrow raising areas of workflow differences that I can zero in on as I try and make the learning curve as painless as possible.

A good example would be how a multicam workflow coming from FCP 7 to media composer would be really disappointing if you have to group a sequence with lots of gaps and you realize that MC wont process filler as "black" video. Or that you cannot simply export a track as a ref sequence and re-import it to group as is the Plural Eyes workflow for Legacy. Or going from MC to Legacy and realizing how much work it takes to patch tracks and trim etc...

Also, I'm working with a 2011 i7 3.4 16g Imac. So I don't have the Cuda capabilities. Will I have trouble cutting multi-cam h.264 native?


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Chris Harlan
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 9:55:24 am

It's actually a pretty smooth transition, and, in fact, that's probably been my biggest problem. Because it was so close to 7, I found myself making assumptions about the underpinnings that would allow me to work for a long time without realizing that I hadn't set something up properly. Nothing horrible; I was always able to create workarounds, but it woke me up to the fact that they were different programs.

I've been in MC and 7 for the last several months, so forgive me if I'm not explicit enough, but one of the areas that stung me slightly was audio configuration. I would suggest spending a little time in advance reviewing your options, here. You have quite a few more options (and a few less) in terms of how you use the channels within source files and how you can bus tracks. I made the assumption that channels would automatically brake into tracks like they do in both MC and 7, which is not the case. I also assumed that spinning off stems into channeled files would be as immediately switchable as it is in FCP, which it is not. I also wrongly assumed that tracks would be as malleable, mid-edit, as they are in 7. Not so. But it is a very good, comparatively complex audio environment, especially with its ability to round trip with Audition, and its worth a little extra time familiarizing yourself with it up front.

I would say that also goes for sequence configuration. It's not really locked down any more--or at least not much more--than either 7 or MC, but it is in different ways. Some things that you think you would be able to change easily mid-edit, you cannot, so give configuration some extra thought up front, as well.

I know these are both minor, but you were asking for personal snags, and these were mine. I've enjoyed using it, and am looking forward to getting back to it in the coming months.


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Bob Pierce
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 1:45:47 pm

Do yourself a favor and read Walter Biscardi's blog about this very topic. I only wish I had read it before I made the switch. There are many, many gotchas to know about.


Here's the link
http://blogs.creativecow.net/blog/5837/final-cut-pro-to-adobe-premiere-pro-...


Director of Photography • Editor
http://www.lightstreamassociates.com




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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 2:23:33 pm

And here's Adobe's jumping off point for those about to take the plunge:

http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2010/09/premiere-pro-overview-documents-...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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David Powell
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 2:28:32 pm

Thanks Bob! How funny, the "biggest gotcha" is standard track selection form in Avid, so what drives Walter "batty" is exactly what I've come to expect.


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Andy Field
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 3:08:09 pm

3 things that are a little different

1 - moving the canvas around - simple point and move in FCP 7 (as long as image and wire frame are selected - in PP6 you must first DOUBLE CLICK the "canvas" window before applying moves in that window.

2 - audio mixing - the mixer is great at recording a key frame mix - but only locked the the timeline track - not each clip - if you mix something and then remove a segment of clips in the timeline - your mix is gone - the key frames stay with the timeline -not each clip....this is something I'm told Adobe is working on fixing for future releases.

3 - composite modes - don't exist as in FCP 7 and a cntl click on the clip - they are a key filter and effects opacity function - for Alpha and Luma keys - go to the key filters and chose track matte key - for screen, hard light etc...click on clip -then then inside the effects tab - twirl down opacity and you'll find the various blending modes

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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David Lawrence
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 10:15:02 pm

[Andy Field] "3 - composite modes - don't exist as in FCP 7 and a cntl click on the clip - they are a key filter and effects opacity function - for Alpha and Luma keys - go to the key filters and chose track matte key - for screen, hard light etc...click on clip -then then inside the effects tab - twirl down opacity and you'll find the various blending modes"

Actually, this is not exactly true. You don't need to add key filters if you just want to change the blend mode of a clip. Just select the clip, go to the Effects Controls panel and twirl down Opacity. You'll find all of your blend modes there.

For Alpha and Luma keys, you will need to add a key filter.

_______________________
David Lawrence
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Bob Pierce
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 3:08:16 pm

If you're used to final cut, PP's track selection scheme is infuriating. Seems completely idiotic. It's actually kinda forced me into being a drag and drop editor, which is not my preference. I've tried all the available keyboard shortcuts but finally gave up.

For me it was NOT a smooth transition, but once I worked out all those gotchas I've really come to like it. Editing all those formats natively is fantastic.


Director of Photography • Editor
http://www.lightstreamassociates.com




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David Lawrence
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 30, 2013 at 2:33:36 am

[David Powell] "Thanks Bob! How funny, the "biggest gotcha" is standard track selection form in Avid, so what drives Walter "batty" is exactly what I've come to expect."

Drives me batty too! It may work like Avid, but it's still f'n stupid! ;) Smart track targeting was another reason many of us moved to FCP Legacy.

It's simple. Track targeting should by default always respect the source track, i.e. if I have video tracks 1, 2, and 3 enabled and I copy a clip from track 3, when I paste it should by default paste into track 3, not track 1. Destination should always respect source unless explicitly overridden by the user. This is UI 101 level stuff.

BTW, Adobe could implement this and if you Avid folks still wanna do the Track Toggle Tango, you'd still be free to knock yourselves out. ;)

Other things I miss:

Range selection on the timeline. Anyone know a way to do this? Super handy when dialogue cutting and I need a breath or tone. I really miss GGG.

Global link/unlink toggle on the timeline. Another big timesaver in FCP Legacy. I have that toggle mapped to the center button on my Logitech Anywhere MX and I hit it all the time (or used to).

Maximum Render Quality is another thing to watch out for. I've found the best way to avoid pain is to leave it unchecked. If you do use it, output slows way down, but more seriously, what you see may not be what you get. The way things appear on the timeline vs. how they render with MRQ checked depend on a number of confusing variables in both hardware and software settings. Avoid.

I have plenty of other UI gripes, but overall I'm very happy. Just finished a piece with AVCHD, ProRes, HDV (from FCP7 XML) and .jpg images all happily playing on the timeline. It was a fast turnaround and would have been impossible if transcoding were required before the edit. I love the trim tools and even though it's not as flexible as FCPX's Channel Configurations, PrP's Modify Audio Channels was perfect for my needs.

There's a lot to like in Premiere and coming from MC and FCP7 you'll have no trouble jumping in. In a couple weeks, we can look forward to it getting ever better.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
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David Powell
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 30, 2013 at 5:53:54 am

Avid has a toggled auto-patch function that makes it much less work to patch than FCP 7. Without the auto-patch enabled though, I can see how this would start to be a chore. Guess I'll have to get used to it and cross my fingers that the complaints got through for the next installment of PP.


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Jok Daniel
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 30, 2013 at 6:36:46 am

[David Lawrence] "BTW, Adobe could implement this and if you Avid folks still wanna do the Track Toggle Tango, you'd still be free to knock yourselves out. ;) "

FWIW, patching and toggling tracks works much better in MC than it ever did in Legacy. It is super easy to select/deselect multiple tracks in one operation (shift-click/slide the mouse across the track buttons), and features like auto-patching and reset default patch means there's little of the tedious "click-click-click-click" required in other NLE:s. The track arming behaviour makes perfect sense and is both consistent and useful, because it gives me maximum control without making any assumptions about my intentions.

In typical Avid fashion, some of these features are non-obvious to new or casual users, but totally indispensable once you learn them. Just sayin'...


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David Powell
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 30, 2013 at 6:43:49 am

Agreed. I remember having to cut a show on 7 after having spent the last year cutting exclusively on MC and thinking how cumbersome the track selection was. Of course all the time I spent cutting on 7 before Avid I never noticed.

My hope is that PP develops closer to the Avid timeline and not to 7s.


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Chris Harlan
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 5:36:57 pm

Its a great video, but its for 5.5 and some of the gotchas have changed, and of course, may change again in a few weeks.


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David Powell
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 30, 2013 at 12:21:39 am

I was thinking the same thing regarding the video being for 5.5 but it seems most of the functions are still the same. Anyone know any differently?


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 3:02:46 pm

David Lawrence posted about this below too, but the one project at a time thing can get really old.
If you want to get access to a bit of footage from another project, or from an earlier version because you went and deleted it, there is no opening up the other project for a sec and grabbing the footage ala FCP7 - you're importing the whole project into your project.

If its late on and the project is complicated, effectively doubling it, just to get at a piece of footage or what have you - is a right pain. Plus you end up with duplicate master clips as far as the eye can see.

Everyone on AE is really used to this kind of crazy, its the exact same deal, but it feels kind of mad in an editing system.

On the upside the tilde key functionality - hover exploding any panel to fullscreen also comes from AE - and that is pure, pure win. It's basically my favourite interface feature ever.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Paul Neumann
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 3:33:16 pm

Aindreas you can use the Media Browser to navigate to any Project and then you're given the choice to import the entire project or choose any individual sequence you'd like to import. Dynamic Link is just dreamy...


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 3:53:18 pm

amn't I the total thicko.

Just mucked about there - the interesting thing is that if you take in a sequence from a previous version of the project, the sequence clips in the imported sequence from the earlier version of the project will point to the master clips in the current project?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Clint Wardlow
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 4:18:45 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "amn't I the total thicko.

Just mucked about there - the interesting thing is that if you take in a sequence from a previous version of the project, the sequence clips in the imported sequence from the earlier version of the project will point to the master clips in the current project?"


I think we all have those dumbbell moments. When I first moved to Premiere Pro, I was appalled at the quality of the video imports. I bitched loud and hard about it until a buddy pointed out I was viewing every thing at 1/2 resolution. Oops.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 31, 2013 at 7:10:22 pm

hey - at least I know the keyframing like the back of me hand wha?

kind of really nice to see the old style inline AE keyframe curves again.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 4:01:02 pm

oh right - thats clever, just did another test - so its analysing the imported sequence contents versus the current project master clips? did another one with some new stuff in the sequence - it only pulls in the master clips it needs? more than I knew ten minutes ago - mmm. haven't paid enough attention to the media browser....

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Richard Cardonna
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 8:00:36 pm

yea just dont drink merlot and use cs6 some people get fidgy


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David Lawrence
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 30, 2013 at 12:28:23 am

[Paul Neumann] "Aindreas you can use the Media Browser to navigate to any Project and then you're given the choice to import the entire project or choose any individual sequence you'd like to import. Dynamic Link is just dreamy..."

Paul, thank you for this tip!

Just tried it and can confirm it works. You don't need to use the media browser, the trick is selecting "import Selected Sequences" when you import. This invokes the Dynamic Link connection and brings in the sequence only. The clips on the sequence are indeed linked to the existing master clips in the master project. Excellent! :)

Wouldn't have helped the other day because I was importing from a FCP7 XML, but I'll keep this in mind for the future. I love learning things in this forum! Thanks again!

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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
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John Czerwinski
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 3:38:26 pm

I'm looking into switching to PPro from FCP7 as well. One question I have is, what are the best codecs to use when transcoding footage into PPro? Our work flow would most likely be a producer would use Prelude to do selects then an editor would import that project into PP. It is very important to our work flow to have all information in one project folder and not referencing a raw footage drive or other drives. I would rather do the file management up front.

Thanks,

John


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 4:20:06 pm

there are way, way, way better people to ask than me - buttt - if you're file based off cards.. richard harrington I think would tell you to create "a verified copy or disk image of your tapeless media in your project's folder." so like onto your raid or whatever.

as in if they were tapes, there's a tape backup, and the tape you're sourcing from - you can then import from that p2 disk image or what have you to your hearts content?

the point with premiere is that on any half decent mac, it doesn't care what the media format is? red native, avchd native anything basically - they're not messing either - it really does work - throw it on the timeline and playback.

the point is that it would want to because there is no intermediate codec. If you want to, and you want to set up the transcoding steps before hand there is nothing stopping you from transcoding everything into prores - premiere is fine with that and it will run dandy, but you are missing half the kick of the system in terms of turnaround time. If you're worried about organisational issues more than codec, having a strict system of card archives should do you?

Half of what I've said there is probably wrong - but the gist is premiere is killer for native handling of media - Premiere's key USP is, 'why the hell are you spending twenty four hours transcoding all your file formats to pro res? It all plays back natively, mixed together on our timeline..'

There are issues getting out though - there is a time sink processing out the final edit from that timeline, and some gotchas there if you're going to resolve.
Some people would argue that PPro really does need the ability to invoke an intermediate codec in some work cases.

Alternatively - just post the question on the PPro forum! - most active on the Cow apparently, and they actually know what they're talking about.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jordan Mena
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 5:38:04 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "
the point with premiere is that on any half decent mac, it doesn't care what the media format is? red native, avchd native anything basically - they're not messing either - it really does work - throw it on the timeline and playback."


This is true to a certain extent. If you are staying inside PPro then using all the different flavors on your timeline is fine. If you plan on going out of Premiere for color then you are going to have problems with Media management (Premiere Pro can't trim compressed Codecs or Red files) and also, the fact that many color systems can't read these codecs. If Color correction is apart of your workflow then transcoding is the way to go. Well worth the wait. BTW, with FCPX you can transcode to an optimized format at any point in your edit :)

J

Jordan Mena | Editor | Colorist | Producer
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJitHxgajDS3y4C0gZjH_ZJihqPLHB32p


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 6:09:06 pm

oh yeah - totally - if you're going to resolve - you're not going to have a good time. It was suggested a quicktime brick output with a notched EDL (not that I've ever done anything of the sort) will kind of get you out of jail - as long as there aren't dissolves involved - but yes definitely - like I said there are definitely times you could argue for an intermediate codec, or just transcoding like we always did. Setting up a batchlist in streamclip never really wrecked my head that much anyway.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Harlan
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 5:48:31 pm

I found that ProResHQ worked quite well for me, especially after reconfiguring the timeline to preview with it.


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Bret Williams
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Mar 29, 2013 at 6:15:49 pm

Maybe Hover Scrub should actually play out the client monitor like another app I know. Bit the tilde is a cool trick.


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Kevin Monahan
Re: What are the primary "gotchas" in PP CS6 coming from MC/Legacy?
on Apr 1, 2013 at 11:51:28 pm

[Bret Williams] "Maybe Hover Scrub should actually play out the client monitor like another app I know. "

Good feature request: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

My biggest pet peeve is having to deselect ripple or selection tools before trimming in the opposite direction. I have made my own feature request for that.

Kevin Monahan
Social Support Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
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