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The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva

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Joseph W. Bourke
The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 26, 2013 at 2:53:17 pm

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/2/1034601

Wow...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 26, 2013 at 3:10:19 pm

that matte looks pretty respectable. and its a non uniform background off hand held too. I'd say it needs not to have any crossing objects in the BG tho.

What'd be kind of interesting is whether it's good enough that you could get a working key without actually having to put someone in a greenscreen lit environment. If you could get a greenscreen level key while having the luxury of putting the body in the exterior lighting conditions you want to match them to in the composite - that'd be nice.
Also I'd wonder if it requires full body motion at least some of the time to define the matte. That kid is pretty constantly jiggling.
reckon there's maybe some kind of difference matting going on to help define the edge?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Dennis Radeke
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 26, 2013 at 4:22:39 pm

All - I'm pretty impressed from my internal perspective. Rotobrush was/is a great idea but the binary nature (black or white, not gray) of the matte made its usefulness somewhat less than its potential. Now, I think this is ready for primetime. In the end, it is all up to our users and customers to validate (or invalidate) whether we got this right. That said, I feel pretty good about this. ;-)

Dennis - Adobe guy


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Joseph Owens
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 26, 2013 at 4:47:16 pm

Seems like it borrows a lot from a planar tracking application whose name tastes like a blend of chocolate and coffee.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Shawn Miller
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 26, 2013 at 5:05:11 pm

[Joseph Owens] "Seems like it borrows a lot from a planar tracking application whose name tastes like a blend of chocolate and coffee."

Really, why do you say that? Rotobrush doesn't seems remotely like Mocha IMO.

Shawn



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Joseph Owens
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 26, 2013 at 11:08:09 pm

The first part of the demonstration illustrates the definition of splined shapes to start isolating the objects of interest. The rest is layering on key separations and it would appear rotobrush is essentially a boundary definition that is likely parented to the first shape and is still comparing and matching pixel areas.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Shawn Miller
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 27, 2013 at 12:19:01 am

[Joseph Owens] "The first part of the demonstration illustrates the definition of splined shapes to start isolating the objects of interest."

Fair enough, but I don't think that's a capability unique to Mocha. You could make the same comparison to Silhouette Roto or Nuke's roto tools.

[Joseph Owens] " The rest is layering on key separations and it would appear rotobrush is essentially a boundary definition that is likely parented to the first shape and is still comparing and matching pixel areas."

I agree with this in a very broad sense. Where roto bush seems to diverge from every other roto tool is in its ability create splines based on textures or user defined areas of interest. Mocha can track textures, but it won't create splines for you... I don't know of any other roto tool that will.

EDIT: I don't think there is another tool on the market that will automatically create feathered masks either. :-)

I am interested in seeing what the new version of RB can do though... I hate rotoscoping. :-)

Shawn



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Erik Lindahl
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 27, 2013 at 1:42:09 pm

If it's a tool that works, great. AE's rotobrush was a huge disapointment.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 27, 2013 at 2:18:39 pm

That's interesting, Erik. What specifically disappointed you about Rotobrush? I used it on a couple of screen replacement projects, where a hand was going across the screen, and Rotobrush accomplished the task in no time, with great accuracy, as opposed to hand masking.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Erik Lindahl
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 27, 2013 at 4:30:49 pm

Every time I've tried to use it it's:

a) Dog slow
b) Gives terrible and unreliable results

Mocha is my go-to-tool for solid masking / rotoscoping work.


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Walter Soyka
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 27, 2013 at 4:48:23 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "Every time I've tried to use it it's:
a) Dog slow
b) Gives terrible and unreliable results"


I don't mean this as a "you're holding it wrong" response, but I've found that a lot of folks with these complaints about Rotobrush are approaching it intuitively -- and that doesn't necessarily work.

Rotobrush builds out ("propagates") from its base frames, you need to take advantage of that for best performance and results. Place your base frames on key frames in the roto, then work sequentially outward, using the minimum number of strokes possible. Don't just start on the first frame of the clip and continue to the last, and don't jump around within a span. When you're done, freeze the propagation.

That said, Rotobrush isn't magic, so it won't always yield perfect results. The new feature, on the other hand, does seem a bit more magical...


[Erik Lindahl] "Mocha is my go-to-tool for solid masking / rotoscoping work."

A great tool with a different approach.


Chris Meyer has an article with more information on the new Refine Edge:

[Todd Kopriva] "more information: Adobe Refine Edge: Chris Meyer goes into detail about new rotoscoping technology from Adobe: http://bit.ly/Yz8AIK"

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Erik Lindahl
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 27, 2013 at 4:55:47 pm

It could be the tool requires a lefty and I'm a righty, indeed! ;)

Jokes aside, even examples I've seen Adobe show how "amazing" the tool is frankly look like s--t. They get the job done fast so lesser quality is "valid" there. I've had very few cases where the tool makes sense.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 27, 2013 at 11:51:28 pm

As I said earlier - no problems here, and not on the fastest machine, either. Rotobrush saved me a huge amount of time - of course I had to put in some up front time learning how to work it correctly. As Walter said, it's not intuitive, but it works when you know how to use it.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Joseph Owens
Re: The future of Roto - to be shown at NAB - courtesy Todd Kopriva
on Mar 27, 2013 at 4:16:54 pm

[Shawn Miller] " I hate rotoscoping. :-)"

Everyone does.

[Insert green square here]

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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