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Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!

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Dan Herz
Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 20, 2013 at 7:29:22 pm

I am a long time FCP 7 editor...recently forced to switch over to FCP X for work. I am running OS X 10.8.2
and running FCP X 10.0.7

I am going out of my f*&$king mind trying to figure out how to move pics the way I want in FCP X. I have watched tutorials, read editing websites, talked to other editors...I can not figure this out. here's the issue:

I am attempting to do a series of moves on some jpgs...on the timeline, I select my clip, I open up the Video animation and in the inspector, I go to the Transform option and select "add keyframe"(I'll call this keyframe A)...then I put the cursor in the clip where I want the next keyframe to go...then I select the "transform" option in the lower left hand corner of the player window and move my jpg to the desired position (I'll call this keyframe B). I want the jpg to remain in the same position for a second or so...so I move the cursor 1 second forward and add another keyframe in the "transform" option in the inspector (I'll call this keyframe C). Now - I move my cursor a second or 2 ahead on the timeline and move the jpg again to the desired position and add another keyframe (i'll call this keyframe D). So...the end result should be that the jpeg moves from the starting point, keyframe A to keyframe B...remains in the same position through keyframe C...and then moves to keyframe D.

The problem I am having is that, for some unexplained reason, the jpg does not stay in position between keyframes B & C...it "floats" or "drifts" between these 2 keyframes even though the keyframes are identical for both positions. When I look at the inspector, the keyframe positions in the "transform" option are identical for both keyframes...but I can see when I go frame by frame along the timeline that the positioning actually moves ie. - the numeric values of the keyframes change between keyframes B & C but end up identical positioning on the keyframes themselves.

Here's some additional info - the jpg will stay static in the desired position between keyframes B & C until I add the next keyframe D. Once I add keyframe D, the image floats or moves between keyframes B & C.

I have tried everything I can think of to fix this, but I can not figure it out...and I am starting to go a little crazy. Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

Dan Herz
danherzproductions.com


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 20, 2013 at 10:05:03 pm

Might have read your post too quickly, but it sounds like you moved the position of jpeg BEFORE setting new keyframe. E.g, set 2nd keyframe later on timeline, without touching position, so THAT keyframe represents the end point of a "hold position" duration. Then move cursor to new position, set another keyframe, THEN change position. If you did all that, then I too would like to know what is causing the drift.

Doug D


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Dan Herz
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 20, 2013 at 10:06:19 pm

Yes, I did what you suggest...still floats

Dan Herz
danherzproductions.com


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 20, 2013 at 10:17:16 pm

Only other thing I notice is if you try to keyframe the "Ken Burns" effect you get trouble, as it is a "canned" effect designed to decelerate at end of shot, rather than the "keep moving at same rate" move that looks better at cut to next still. But if you are just using position, scale, keyframes...that result is baffling.

Doug D


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 20, 2013 at 10:20:45 pm

Also, zoom way in or use the "go to next/previous" keyframe, to make sure you don't have an accidental extra keyframe in there, immediately adjacent to desired one. That will cause the problem.

Doug D


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Dan Herz
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 20, 2013 at 10:21:47 pm

I checked...no extra keyframes to be found...I'm mystified...and frustrated!

Dan Herz
danherzproductions.com


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Brett Sherman
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 20, 2013 at 11:25:55 pm

Get the free Pan and Zoom plug-in from Noise Industries. Works like a charm.



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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 20, 2013 at 11:42:11 pm

The issue here is that FCPX has a tendency of setting the keyframes to smooth (bezier) rather than linear. The order you set your keyframes in does affect the result. I tend to set my B and C keyframes first. However, I do regularly get the problem you have, and don't understand why. Apple does need to improve this by adding the option to change this in the inspector, even though I feel that its a great improvement to FCP 7.

You need to use the Keyframe editor in the viewer as well as the one in the inspector. If you've set them in the inspector or inspector doesn't really matter.

You should also be able to do it in the timeline by opening the video animation (crtl + V). Then ctrl + click on each keyrame and change it to linear. I don't have final cut infront of me at the moment, so I'm not sure, I usually use the keyframe editor in the viewer, since the clients I do jpeg animation for like curves, and controlling curves handles can only be done in the viewer.

So, once your four keyframes are set, use the viewer keyframe editor. You will notice that Keyframes B and C are on the same position in the viewer. Ctrl + click on that keyframe you see, a menu should appear that gives you the option of a linear or smooth keyframe. Change it to linear. However you will notice that there still is some movement. The problem here is that both keyframes are at the same position in the viewer. Because of this the mouse can't click on both, kind of buggy. In the inspector or viewer navigate using the arrows to C, grab it in the viewer and pull it from its original position, now you can see B and C and you will see a curved line between them. Ctrl + click each keyframe and change them to linear, now the line between them should be straight. Since you moved the C key frame you can either pull it back with the mouse, or to be more exact and avoid any movement change it back in the inspector.

Nik

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Charlie Austin
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 12:05:26 am

[Dan Herz] "I have tried everything I can think of to fix this, but I can not figure it out...and I am starting to go a little crazy. Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated."

it's a bug... there's a workaround...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Euyathw6fI4#!


you may only need to add/delete keyframes once, not 3 times. This'll make sense after you check out the video
-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 12:36:51 am

Hey Charlie, I don't think the video is the solution to Dan's problem. As far as I understand it, he needs the second and third keyframe to be the same, so that the image doesn't move at all between the keyframes. His issue has to do with the interpolation of the keyframes.

Nik

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Dan Herz
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 12:44:36 am

You are correct, Charlie. Don't think my issue has to do with linear or smooth options...it seems that FCP X is adding motion where I don;t want it...nor have I added keyframes to create the motion...it is just seemingly moving without me telling it to!

Dan Herz
danherzproductions.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 12:47:18 am

[Dan Herz] ".it seems that FCP X is adding motion where I don;t want it...nor have I added keyframes to create the motion...it is just seemingly moving without me telling it to!"

Try that little trick. it's a PITA, but it works...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Charlie Austin
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 12:44:44 am

[Nikolas Bäurle] "Hey Charlie, I don't think the video is the solution to Dan's problem. As far as I understand it, he needs the second and third keyframe to be the same, so that the image doesn't move at all between the keyframes. His issue has to do with the interpolation of the keyframes."

Actually, I think it does... just did a test with 4 KF, A,B,C,D On initial playback, the jpg moved around between B and C, which were the same. did the little add/remove trick 1f on either side of the keyframes and it stays perfectly still between B and C. try it. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bret Williams
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 12:40:02 am

The linear refers to the the spatial curve. Shouldn't have anything to do with easing anyway. In 7, there was a separate ease control, but it had its own set of problems.

Another answer is to use the crop tool to animate in a ken burns style, but without any curve or easing. I use it for basic stuff like zoom and scale.


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Carsten Orlt
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 1:05:36 am

Hi Dan,

Very strange because I just tried it myself and it works just fine here? FCPx 10.0.7 and OSX 10.8.3.

Keyframe B, C and D set to 'Linear'

No idea why it doesn't work at your end.

Happy editing


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 1:20:51 am

I agree with Carsten. In my experience this has to do with linear or smooth. I've never used Charlie's add/remove trick, I will try it though. If the image rocks back and forth ending at the same position then you need to set the keyframes to linear. So far it has always worked for me. If the image suddenly jumps back and forth after reaching the end of an animation then you have an extra keyframe somewhere.

Nik

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 5:24:38 am

I just tried Charlie's add/remove trick. Cool. Adding/removing a keyframe one frame before and one frame after your original keyframe changes its interpolation to linear. So it does the same thing as
ctrl + clicking the keyframe and changing it.

What bugs me a little about the viewer keyframe interface is that in when B and C are on the same position, even though you navigate from B to C, one keyframe is on top of the other. Grab one of the keyframes and pull it down, then you see both, click on each and change the interpolation. The problem you get then is that one of the Keyframes needs to be put back exactly where it was, so back to the inspector and copy paste the parameters.

Charlie's way of doing it is faster. Set your keyframes, navigate to keyframe B do the add/remove trick.

Its not really a bug, I like using the curves, but it depends on the style. What needs to happen is for Apple to add the interpolation option in the inspector and timeline. One keyframe covering the other, thats the bug.

Nik

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Nick Toth
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 12:01:14 pm

I have been testing this. I cannot replicate Charlie's problem. Also, the fact that the keyframes are "on top of each other" doesn't matter. The reason is this. If you navigate to a keyframe, It will appear as orange in the inspector and the effected still or video will jump to it. If you then navigate to the next keyframe, even thought it is in the same position in the viewer it is in a different place in the timeline. Therefore you can make changes to it without effecting any other keyframe. Moving the keyframe in the viewer will change it's attributes. Also, once you have set a keyframe and then move the playhead to a different point on the timeline, any changes you make will automatically set a keyframe. The"key" is that the playhead must be on the keyframe and it must appear as orange in the inspector. Otherwise the playhead is not on a keyframe and if you make any changes in the viewer you will set new keyframes. I have a feeling this is what is actually happening. The first step is to place the playhead, then create keyframes and continue until you have what you want. Use the animation viewer to change the timing by dragging the keyframes that appear there. I think keyframing in FCP X is actually more powerful and easier than many give it credit for.

anickt


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 2:39:54 pm

Hey Nick, that's how its supposed to work, I know. In my case, I just seem to be having this bug where even though I'm on the third keyframe, playhead and orange, it keeps on changing the parameter for the second one. My workaround for this is moving the keyframe in the viewer, Charlie's workaround works as well.

The keyframing is indeed very powerful, I rally like it. It's a lot better than FCP 7 clunky intertace, and that goes for Avid as well. FCPX is intuitive and easy to use, and I get better results faster.

Nik

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Nick Toth
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 2:59:33 pm

Nik

The worst thing is it's hard to troubleshoot from a distance when you just can't make what the other person is seeing happen on your own system.

I have helped some people in 2 minutes using screen share when I found that either they were doing something which wasn't explained in their description of the problem or they weren't describing the problem accurately relative to how the software works.

All we can do is TRY to help each other I guess!

:)

anickt


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Keyframe Nightmare when try to keyframe Jpegs!
on Mar 21, 2013 at 3:03:29 pm

I just tried using only the inspector and I get a linear animation. Using only the viewer I get curves.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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