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FCP7 vs. MC5

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james carey
FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:52:21 pm

I'm as frustrated as the rest of the pro editors on this site over the current debacle. From the research I've been able to cobble together in the past two days it seems I will have to make a decision on the direction of my departments NLE software/hardware needs.

In the years ahead FCPx may be upgraded to the same standards I now take for granted with our FCP7/Kona workstations, but in the meantime I will continue to work with FCP7 but will be transitioning over to either PPro (which I have - but is the only tool in CS5 I actually don't use) and Avid MC5. There are just too many important features no longer available.

I have never used Avid. i know it's a great tool, but at the time i was investing in systems, Final Cut made more sense from a cost vs. value for a small editing department. I know Avid prices have become much more competitive with those of FCP, but we were already too heavily invested to consider a switch. Besides, FCP was, (I hate to use the word. 'was') a great system.

So I would appreciate your opinions and links to help me make a decision. That is all.

Jim Carey
Director of Video, Radical Entertainment
linkedin: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/jcarey256
mobygames: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,17212/


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John Berpskin
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:04:50 pm

MC5 blows and Avid has done very little in the past few years. IMHO, they have fallen behind the curve of FCP and PP. If it were my call, i'd keep jammin on FCP7 while keeping an eye on FCP X. Avid is taking a step back.


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Peter Blumenstock
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:20:56 pm

Actually, MC's format support runs circles around the old FCP.


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Jason Wood
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:21:27 pm

"MC5 blows and Avid has done very little in the past few years. IMHO, they have fallen behind the curve of FCP and PP. If it were my call, i'd keep jammin on FCP7 while keeping an eye on FCP X. Avid is taking a step back."

Um, actually MC5.5 is pretty darn solid.

OP, Avid has a full 30 day trial of Media Composer 5.5 for download. Decide for yourself.


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Peter Blumenstock
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:06:15 pm

There is a 30 day trial of Media Composer so you can give it a go. Keep in mind that the current 5.5 release requires a 32 bit Kernel though. 6.0 will be full 64 bit (and it will still have all the features:-).
Given the fact that a large number of editors are without a "home" right now, I am very curious to see what Avid does in the coming months. There are rumours that the Kona will work with an upcoming release of MC which would be awesome. 64bit MC with all the features on can hope for, third party capture cards which lots of us already have and are rock solid.


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Dylan Reeve
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:49:30 am

[Peter Blumenstock] " Keep in mind that the current 5.5 release requires a 32 bit Kernel though. 6.0 will be full 64 bit (and it will still have all the features:-)."

Not quite accurate - it is a 32bit app, but will run on a 64bit OS no problem.

6.0 in clearly coming, but release dates are still vague. No harm in trying the 5.5 demo though.



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Peter Blumenstock
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:52:32 am

That's not what Avid support and the Avid website says. Both explicitly say you will have to boot into the 32 bit Kernel.
Are you running it on a Mac in a 64bit Kernel? Very curious.


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Dylan Reeve
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 24, 2011 at 7:31:03 am

Oh sorry - you are exactly correct, I forgot about the differences between 64bit handling in OS X and Windows...

You can run Avid in Windows 7 64bit (even in bootcamp) but OS X does things differently...

Mea culpa



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Jerry Hofmann
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:22:46 pm

Stay right where you are. If your "research" has been reading all the whining about FCP X, then you need to chill a bit. There's so much misinformation going out there right now because people are screaming things like "NO MARKERS"... well there are markers in FCP X.

Other screams like Cant Ingest from tape... Sure you can, just not within the software except for DV and HDV. Gotta AJA software? VTR Exchange I believe will do the trick for FCP X. Can't monitor externally! True (sort of) for now, but AJA's posted a way to do this (though you lose the ability for dual computer displays) and on it goes...

The biggest issue I see with the new software is that you can't open FCP 7 files in FCP X. Yet... Bet you will be able to... you can run FCP 7 and X on the same computer. Just best to do it with a dual boot system setup.

MC is great software, but it's no more modern right now than what you are running. It's still 32 bit. Adobe? Well, it's 64 bit... do you really want to jump? Won't be opening FCP 7 files in it without a $500 piece of software. (Automatic Duck) and there's that old learning curve thing no matter what you do unless you wait a bit.

If I were you, I'd stay right where you are for a bit until the shakedown is really over. Next Gen Avid software will no doubt be 64 bit. I'd also wait for a major decision on the future to look at the next gen Mac Pro's... they are coming I'll wager very shortly. Better wait and read this hopefully to calm your nerves: http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/908

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


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james carey
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:33:29 pm

There's some good advice Jerry, no doubt about it. But what of exporting XML. EDL and OMF. Or sending timeline's to color correction. Or sharing projects with other editors. Or sharing footage - timelines - attributes with other projects. Where I work I have half a dozen or more projects going at same time, some open at same time on the same machine. Easy to drop a timeline into another project for an alternate edit, etc. etc. Perhaps there is whining, myself including, that doesn't mean it is not warranted. If indeed Avid won't suit my needs, or PPro is too clunky (which I have found it be), my only alternative is to continue with FCP7, hope it will work with Lion and the new pros (having Apple remove both FCP7 and ProApps Installer doesn't bode well btw) and pray the Apple upgrades or 3rd party comes to the rescue.

I am just too friggin old to start from scratch to tell you the truth.

Thanks again.

Jim Carey
Director of Video, Radical Entertainment
linkedin: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/jcarey256
mobygames: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,17212/


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Peter Blumenstock
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:46:39 pm

xml, edl, omf, it's all there.


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james carey
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:48:59 pm

all where, in FCPx?

Jim Carey
Director of Video, Radical Entertainment
linkedin: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/jcarey256
mobygames: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,17212/


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Peter Blumenstock
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:52:51 pm

In Media Composer. NOTHING is there in FCP X.


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 24, 2011 at 2:27:46 pm

If Apple doesn't add these features, others will...

Take a look at this: http://www.automaticduck.com/products/pefcp/

They are getting on it already...

There's little doubt that FCP 7 will run in Lion BTW. It should do just fine.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


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Brian Charles
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:38:01 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "Won't be opening FCP 7 files in it without a $500 piece of software."

Not so. XML Import from FCP, not perfect but it work for most features that can be duplicated in PPro.



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Chris Harlan
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:50:38 pm

Sorry, Jerry. Hate to disagree, but...

This is NOT FCP anymore, other than in name. I really liked FCP. This, not so much. The interface is far too interested in trying to teach me how to edit, and trying to make sure I don't lose sync. But here's the real deal breaker for me:

It is not going to be part of the television or film industry. If you look very closely at the implementation of the underlying architecture, I think you will find it clearly built around a consumer. It is event centric and not project centric; that makes sense for iPhoto and a lot of social media,but not for big projects. The reason that audio tracks and channels are missing is not some oversight. They are missing because they conflict directly with magnetic tracks. It is one or the other. A little patience isn't going to fix that.

As i said, this isn't FCP anymore. All that is left is the name. When Apple EOled FCS3, Final Cut Pro died.


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Tom Daigon
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:17:32 pm

Jerry "Adobe? Won't be opening FCP 7 files in it without a $500 piece of software. (Automatic Duck) and there's that old learning curve thing no matter what you do unless you wait a bit. "



Now Jerry, talk about misinformation ;-) Walter has a live tutorial today show in real time the process of exporting a project out of FCP 7
using NO third party software. PP CS 5.5 brought in all the clips sequences AND text. It took about 2 minutes and was as easy as pie.

As to learning curve, under keyboard commands I selected FCP7. And that solved what can be the most daunting learning challenge.

Just trying to keep the dialog honest here.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / FCP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Chris Knight
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:45:45 pm

I can confirm that importing FCP7 project files into Premiere is incredibly simple, and I move cross-platform. Rarely had an issue (usually a missing filter).



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Jerry Hofmann
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 24, 2011 at 2:50:26 pm

I was unclear... I'm saying that FCP X won't import FCP 7 files. I know Premiere and Avid will import XML files... as does FCP 7.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


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Chris Harlan
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:04:02 pm

Jerry, I'm in the same boat, except I have worked on Avid before. I've already upgraded to the recent version of Media Composer, and, over the summer I will look much more closely at Premiere. I've got an MX02 mini for my laptop, and I've just ordered a card so that it will work with my 8 core. I'll be able to use all three systems through the summer. I work, project to project, with a lose federation of editors, so I'm getting a jump on coordination for large projects towards the beginning of next year. My answers depend largely on what other people in the community are going to do. So, I'm opening as many dialogs now as I can.


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james carey
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:12:12 pm

thanks for the advice, i will be doing same.

Jim Carey
Director of Video, Radical Entertainment
linkedin: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/jcarey256
mobygames: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,17212/


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Daniel Frome
Re: FCP7 vs. MC5
on Jun 23, 2011 at 11:10:47 pm

"MC5 blows and Avid has done very little in the past few years."
Yikes... Media Composer 5.5 is very good actually.

AVID is a pain to learn, because it's quite different from FCP and keeps a lot of the old school editing terms and thought processes.

That being said, take a seasoned FCP editor and an equal AVID editor and leave them off to the races... the AVID editor nearly always finishes first. MC 5.5 still lags behind in the rendering department (both in real time effects and especially outputting to file formats) but it cuts faster. It also has some extra editing tricks/techniques that you'll hurt over when switching back to FCP (yes... that's right... us editors will still be using both for a long time, gasp!).

So... if you don't want to go the FCPX route I guess you must also be thinking Premiere Pro CS5.5 ? It's also pretty rockin...


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