FORUMS: list search recent posts

Let get one thing striaght...

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Greg Burke
Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:36:51 pm

Final Cut Pro X is a remarkable program, it's fast, the presets are great! And it has a great tool applying filters and color correction. That said.......

I really want it to fail, mainly because if it does apple will make Fcp 8 faster. If a program doesn't have anytype of deck control it's a toy and not a tool.

Btw can anyone tell me how to separate audio tracks in general with Fcp x I've been trying to figure it out all morning.


Return to posts index

Peter Blumenstock
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:45:51 pm

You cannot separate audio tracks.


Return to posts index

Greg Burke
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:51:12 pm

Really? No there has to be a way.


Return to posts index


Peter Blumenstock
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:55:02 pm

What exactly do you mean with separating audio? Assigning channels, outputting for example four channels of audio instead of stereo? All that can't be done.


Return to posts index

Phil Hoppes
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:55:34 pm

There will never be a FCP8. What you see is what you will get. There is no hidden meaning. If FCPX fails, and actually, once the dust settles, I don't think it will fail. But if it did fail, its gone and in the grand scheme of Apple Corporate Revenue it will be a footnote on a back page of an annual report. Seriously, how big do you believe that $300 a pop software product makes for a 100B/yr company? Do the math. Go crazy. 2 million units at 300each. That is 0.6% of their annual revenue.

In fact I think it will be wildly successful, just not the mainstay of 90% on this board. They may use it for sure, but it is not intended for the top 10% nor will it ever be pushed to that arena. No need.


Return to posts index

J Hussar
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:53:18 pm

I like final cut 7 - it was just getting long in the tooth and not taking advantage of the 12 processors and 24 GB of RAM I have in my MacPro (which was well over $7k).

They sold FCP as a tool for pros. They lied and said the new version was for pros. A lie.

Basically they lied, they continue to lie - even knocking the negative comments off the app store until they got caught doing it.

It's a PR disaster for Apple - much bad mouthing going on in the real world. This is real negative word of mouth from people who love really always loved Apple.

Randy Ubillos should resign over this fiasco. Simple.



Return to posts index


Ted Levy
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:23:27 pm

Unfortunately this can't actually be a PR disaster, because most Apple customers will never use and don't care about Final Cut Pro.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 8:58:01 pm

[Greg Burke] "I really want it to fail, mainly because if it does apple will make Fcp 8 faster."

It's incomplete. That's not a fail. There can be no FCP8 because FCP was based on Quicktime which is 32 bit. In order to make a 64 bit program they had do use a new base and that's AV Foundation. Then it would be a challenge to mimic an old paradigm when AV Foundation's media handling is very different.

It makes more sense to have productive feature requests and improvements than to clamor for an improved "old" way when there simply wasn't anything to build that on.

In fact one of FCP's biggest disadvantages was it's tie to Quicktime and the need to rewrap or transcode or otherwise trick it into seeing things as Quicktime wrapped. Sometimes there's no prettying up a pile of decaying matter.

Apple wanted, rightly fully so I think, more direct and clean tie ins to the new technologies they're using.



Return to posts index

james carey
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:02:55 pm

[Craig Seeman] "In fact one of FCP's biggest disadvantages was it's tie to Quicktime and the need to rewrap or transcode or otherwise trick it into seeing things as Quicktime wrapped. Sometimes there's no prettying up a pile of decaying matter."

wow, that's quite a statement, Quicktime a pile of decaying matter.

Jim Carey
Director of Video, Radical Entertainment
linkedin: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/jcarey256
mobygames: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,17212/


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:06:00 pm

Yes, it is 32 bit Quicktime that was holding back FCP in a number of ways. Apple knew this.
They wholesale change and I think improvement that is AV Foundation was one motivator for creating a new app.

Think about it. You could edit H.264 natively and in real time on an iPhone but FCP7 on a 12 core Mac couldn't even touch that.

In this case the ability to make something power and efficient on iOS lead to improvements on the desktop. That's why I don't besmirch "consumer" roots. The drive to create such code is translating into a very powerful if nascent NLE. It's going to grow into a powerhouse . . . but you can't expect this infant to do what an adult does at the moment.



Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:18:04 pm

Craig -

Premiere Pro is 64 bit and yet, guess what, it looks and acts like a NLE.

The fact that Quicktime was a problem and the code had to be re-written has nothing to do with the fact that this product was re-targeted for a different audience. They killed the Viewer window (which eliminates Multi-Cam)-- was this necessitated because of AV Foundation or because it's now a simpler program for Youtubers to navigate?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


Return to posts index

J Hussar
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:28:09 pm

You nailed it Herb... all the misdirection that they 'can't' do something is simply nonsense.

Programming is NOT impossible. They chose not to support pros.



Return to posts index


Greg Burke
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:42:14 pm

So since apples showed it's hand on where it's going, is it that bad to "jump ship" and go with avid? I do wanna make a living video editing and make more than 12/hourly.(witch is what I'll be making if I stay with Fcp)


Return to posts index

TS O'Grady
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 9:59:04 pm

Sorry your having a hard time making rate but give me a break! You're not making $12 an hour because of the tools you're using. Your rate is based on your experience, how you present yourself and whether you're willing to stand your ground in order to establish a higher rate. Are you going to be one of the people on this forum that keeps coming back to blame Apple for your lack of work?



Return to posts index

Greg Burke
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:22:37 pm

@TS O'Grady Whats your Hourly Rate? How old are you? How many RECURRING CLIENTS use you.

Its not that simple. I'm 26 and I'm still "New" to the Industry, I haven't Made Connections or relationships yet. People call me and I tell them. "Okay my rate is ________ (based on the length and type of project).they tell me "That's to High, Thanks for your time" And all the vets on here are claiming Im not skilled due to my Rate being 15-25/hourly. You vets need to wake up. I am very skilled and trained myself to be a master in FCS3 as well as Photoshop and After effects. But what you dont realize is that YOU have clients and YOU have a HUGE SAVINGS AND YOU Have the ability to turn down low paying work. I DON'T.


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:38:26 pm

Please do post that in the COW Business forum and we'll all give you a hand with that. They play much nicer there too.

If you freelance on other people's systems you'll need to know FCP7, MC5.5 and maybe CS5.5.
If you're doing things on your own system, continue to use FCP7 and spend some time learning FCPX.
If your price range is that low, I would be very cautious about making a capital investment in a new NLE if you have FCP7.
If you don't have an NLE yet, then, as much as I do trust Apple, you might be limited in the kind of work you can do with FCPX. Then again it's feature might be perfect if you're shooting or editing with AVCHD and don't need to hand off projects.

BTW you probably should be charing more than $12/hr even as a newbie but pleas post in the COW Business forum and well have a discussion about business models for newbies. I do have a lot to say but I'm not posting off topic in this forum.



Return to posts index

Greg Burke
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:53:51 pm

Just did. Thanks


Return to posts index

Greg Burke
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:53:56 pm

Just did. Thanks


Return to posts index

Marcus Umstead
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:40:54 pm

Knowing what to charge can be tricky. I just charged a Very Large Company $50/hr for a masssive job (over 1000 hours so far) and they are happy to pay it. In fact, one of the big-whigs said my work is what they have paid $100/hr with another vendor. They no longer use that vendor, so what your worth is something you might have to juggle with what you can get away with to secure the job.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:11:32 pm

64 bit is only one part of the equation. It's the change that made AV Foundation, how that handles things, one might be the best GUI, how to make a better "human" interface.

At the point Apple had to make a major change, it was either take the opportunity and build something entirely new or not. I think Apple believes the new GUI, the new ways of working, will make editing faster and easier.



Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 10:54:22 pm

Craig -

Before you said "it would be a challenge to mimic an old paradigm when AV Foundation's media handling is very different."

Why? What about AV Foundation makes a Viewer window so difficult?

"I think Apple believes the new GUI, the new ways of working, will make editing faster and easier."

Yes, faster and easier. Like for children. You do that by limiting options, removing customization, avoiding complications like choices.

David Pogue, in his favorable review of X in the NY Times described himself as someone who thought that Imovie was inadequate and Final Cut was too intimidating. He is the ideal marketing target for FCPX.

The idea that you couldn't write a 64 bit AV Foundation version of Final Cut Pro that could have maintained backward compatibility while upgrading speed, power and data management is ludicrous. X is the result of marketing decisions, first last and always. As the man said "follow the money."

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 23, 2011 at 11:18:03 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Why? What about AV Foundation makes a Viewer window so difficult?"

Actually a Viewer window is one of the things I'd like as well. My brain really wants to see out of one shot and in on another. I'm not wedded to it though. I've gone through enough changes with gear and software over the 30 years in video to know that I can change my way of thinking given the some total of the parts.

My main concern is trimming and despite using FCP for 10 years and Avid MC 10 years before that, FCP2009 still couldn't match Avid 2000 IMHO. It looks like FCPX may have gotten trimming right even though it's new a different in some of its approach towards it. If I can trim with keyboard commands and see a 2-up that would work. I don't want to have to trim with a mouse to get the 2-up.

[Herb Sevush] "Yes, faster and easier. Like for children. You do that by limiting options, removing customization, avoiding complications like choices."

I don't see most of the options as limited. Unlimited secondaries for Color grading is not limited. From what I've seen of the trimming that's an improvement over FCP7 although I need to poke more heavily. Titling seems to be improved as does the hooks into Motion. BTW with all the FCPX criticism going on I'd note that Motion 5 is at 4 stars in the App store and 53 of the 89 reviews are giving it 5 stars.

Keep in mind that unlike FCP, which was built on old Macromedia code, went through OS9, OSX, PPC, Intel, Motion had a much more recent birth and wasn't buried in ancient code. That Apple decided to toss FCP and start from scratch is the right idea I think. Time will tell but if you look at Motion, think of where FCPX might be once Apple settles some things.

Pros like ease of use too as long as there's deep and accessible power and I think FCPX is headed in that direction. They did it with Motion after all IMHO.



Return to posts index

Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 24, 2011 at 4:07:22 am

A practical question: if I decide to install my FCP7 on a different computer, say I want to work on my iMac 27" instead of my laptop, I will have to install FCS2 and then my FCS3 upgrade on top of that.

But how do I get from FCP v7.0 to v7.0.3, which in the past I did by using Software Update, which would tell me there is a ProApps update for my software?

Has anyone tried this? Am I stuck migrating or cloning my MBP internal drive in perpetuity as I go from one machine to the next?

Looks like my "Mac Museum" may have another dedicated machine, a 2010 MBP 17" running OS 10.6.7, FCP 7.0.3 until it dies.

I am even nervous about updating to OSX 10.6.8 now...


Return to posts index

Greg Penetrante
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 24, 2011 at 7:03:35 am

[Douglas K. Dempsey] " But how do I get from FCP v7.0 to v7.0.3, which in the past I did by using Software Update, which would tell me there is a ProApps update for my software?"

The updates to 7.0 -> 7.03 are still there tonight. I know somebody else must have hoarded the ProApps 2010-2 update somewhere...

-Greg



Return to posts index

Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Let get one thing striaght...
on Jun 24, 2011 at 5:52:21 pm

Thanks, Greg. Yes, it will be an FCP7 "Community Support Network" to keep the old NLE working for enough time to adjust.

In my case, I have many sequences that are constantly re-used, updated, modified etc. It would be a huge inconvenience to re-create these from raw media in another app. So regardless of what I create in the future in FCPX, I need to keep my FCP7 projects alive until they can be converted to FCPX or PPro, MC etc.

A perfect example is a 3-camera shoot of a weekend-long conference that I did for a client. The multi-cam project is all built, sorted, selects have been binned, and audio "from the board" has been synced up with the 3 cameras' independent audio. Whenever the Client's budget allows it, we go back into the multi-cam sequences and create new releases of material. This will go on over the course of a couple years.

If a job is big enough, I would just freeze the computer, hard drives, Snow Leopard and FCP7.0.3 and dip into it when needed.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]