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Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?

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Brian Pistone
Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 1:36:11 am

I am writing curriculum this summer for the Television Broadcasting Production and Technology program for my school district. For the past 5 years we've been instructing with Final Cut Studio and prior to that I was teaching Adobe Premiere. I learned Autocad in high school and have been made aware of Autodesk Smoke in the recent short "Fix it in Post":

http://provideocoalition.com/cmilby/story/filmmaker-jeremy-hunt-fixes-it-in...

I would appreciate any feedback on which software you think would be best to prepare a high school student for college and industry. Here is a quick 2 question form:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1xfr9xcjLApfQN5tJhuBOg2vJu0BrBw4Fp_gJeejkiZ...

or if you'd like please respond here.


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 2:15:19 pm

Any editing system is - by and large - the right editing system, as mostly editing is in the head. Personally I would keep to mainstream professionally used software and that means mostly Avid or PPro at the moment, though Edius is also a good choice. We use Premiere at our university, as the educational cost of the software is low.


Bernie


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Gary Huff
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 2:21:25 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "Personally I would keep to mainstream professionally used software and that means mostly Avid or PPro at the moment,"

Here in my experience, I see AVID when an NLE is requested, then Final Cut, then Premiere, then FCPX.

I've seen Smoke once or twice as well.


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Chris Jacek
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 5:01:49 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "We use Premiere at our university, as the educational cost of the software is low. "

Bernard, does your school use CLP licensing, and maintenance contracts? If so, what is your plan going forward, given Adobe's killing of maintenance licensing and large price increase?

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 9:34:41 pm

I've asked, as I don't know. Please stand by....

B

Bernie


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 1:57:23 pm

[Chris Jacek] "does your school use CLP licensing, and maintenance contracts? If so, what is your plan going forward, given Adobe's killing of maintenance licensing and large price increase?"

Chris, I don't think you have all of the facts here. For example, maintenance is built into the new model pricing structure. One thing Adobe has always done is give very good value to our customers. You might not like the model and that's okay, but I'd encourage you to get all of the facts.

Creative Cloud for Students and Teachers

Dennis - adobe guy


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 5:33:49 pm

The answer from my university is that they bought educational licences and Abode helped them with the installation, but that was all. They don't have any on-going maintenance contract.

Bernie


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 10:25:49 pm

with respect Dennis - that is total boilerplate.

A guy trying to run an editing department is right to be irked when the company providing the editing software turns up with a random dump truck of apps across web, print, image editing, Flash, and some weird web odds and ends and demands that he now start paying for all that stuff on a suscription basis - with a consequent massive markup in ongoing costs for ****education*** Dennis - these people rarely tend to be rolling in money, and the last thing they need is a forced olive oil salesman moment from adobe.

Saying that creative cloud represents best value is mad - it definitely doesn't represent anything like that to Chris.

What are his students going to do - start coding dreamweaver websites when they finish analysing Thelma Schoonmaker?

It's a poor show from Adobe - Chris has been very clear and precise about the degree to which the rug has been pulled out from under him.

They're educators for God's sake - its not exactly a madly profitable venture Dennis, but they actually are the ones training your future "have forty apps for just 39.999 a month" customers...

Sorry - but my sister is in education - it is a hard, almost quite thankless, penny search behind the sofa pursuit, is education.
They are supposed to have at least some kind of societal dispensation from others in society - including companies such as the one you work for.

best,

Aindreas

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 11:50:52 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "turns up with a random dump truck of apps across web, print, image editing, Flash, and some weird web odds and ends and demands that he now start paying for all that stuff on a suscription basis"

Well, I always give you points for being colorful. And I appreciate your input and points of view. Thanks.

In this case, it's a simple math thing. Education has been and is the cheapest way to purchase Adobe software today and historically. In fact, I have many times had individuals say they would purchase an Adobe suite through their kid's college computer store because they knew it to be the cheapest way out there.

@ $360 for a year ($20 x 12), that's still LESS expensive than purchasing a single suite to say nothing of all the apps and services you actually get. If you choose not to consider all of the other stuff like cloud storage, services, built in upgrades, new apps, tablet apps, etc. thats fine. The math still adds up for a single suite...

I would totally agree with you if Adobe was getting greedy and trying to charge more, but from everything I've seen, it's simply not the case.

Like I said (and will likely say throughout 2013!), some people will not agree or get it. I can respect that. The fact is that today, CS6 is cheaper by purchasing as Creative Cloud on a subscription than as a box copy. That is true for EDU and for commercial.

With respect,
Dennis the Adobe guy


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 7, 2013 at 1:29:49 am

Hi - sure,

but with respect, and look - In my context - its a killer deal: I half feel like an idiot for doing the full plump on CS6 production premium - that said, I'm self employed, some part of my nature likes to know that the card is deposited in my back pocket - doing hire purchase, where the purchase doesn't ever happen, strikes me as leery when it involves critical tools.

that said - I still feel some lingering stupidity for not having jumped to the cloud off 5.5 production premium - as I say, I opted to pay one time for the tools contained in the CS6 offering - which are awesome.

That said - with specific regard to Chris's fundamental point about the nuking of the arrangements in place for educators - the sums he laid out - do you have a view?

best regards,

Aindreas

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 7, 2013 at 2:34:16 am

I assume you mean this part: Nuking

"Bernard, does your school use CLP licensing, and maintenance contracts? If so, what is your plan going forward, given Adobe's killing of maintenance licensing and large price increase?"

If this is indeed what you're referring to, I can only reiterate what I've said: the price is less - comparison between shrink and subscription here: Educational buying guide and maintenance is built into the price: Long FAQ but product updates/upgrades here

Hope this helps. Let me know what other questions people may have.

Dennis


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 7, 2013 at 12:00:27 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "Let me know what other questions people may have."

Reckon I'll leave it to Chris!
However: continuing to blankly say that shrink wrap software is more expensive than the cloud does not at all answer the specific issue of chris's costs exploding by 300% as a result of Adobe's decisions with regard to educational pricing. But I get that you basically can't address or answer that.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 8, 2013 at 10:04:51 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "However: continuing to blankly say that shrink wrap software is more expensive than the cloud does not at all answer the specific issue of chris's costs exploding by 300% as a result of Adobe's decisions with regard to educational pricing."

Well, I have responded to Chris to address his specific situation and will endeavor to get a better understanding in order to resolve it if I can. If I said I know everything about Adobe (especially pricing), I would be a big fat liar.

THAT SAID, my links and words hold their own. It is right there on the web page links I gave and no one is arguing that the Adobe website is lying about pricing...

Dennis - Adobe guy


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Chris Jacek
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 7, 2013 at 12:48:32 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "@ $360 for a year ($20 x 12), that's still LESS expensive than purchasing a single suite to say nothing of all the apps and services you actually get. If you choose not to consider all of the other stuff like cloud storage, services, built in upgrades, new apps, tablet apps, etc. thats fine. The math still adds up for a single suite...

I would totally agree with you if Adobe was getting greedy and trying to charge more, but from everything I've seen, it's simply not the case.

Like I said (and will likely say throughout 2013!), some people will not agree or get it. I can respect that. The fact is that today, CS6 is cheaper by purchasing as Creative Cloud on a subscription than as a box copy. That is true for EDU and for commercial."


Thanks for chiming in, Dennis. I was hoping to get your take on things. I must, however, respectfully take issue with a couple of your points.

1. The price of $360 a year is not actually cheaper than what we already have. Not even the $240 for the first year at the $20 promotional rate. We already have the licenses, so we are paying $75 a year right now. That is, until Adobe killed the maintenance license. If we get some kind of additional discount for already owning the CLP perpetual licenses, nobody has told me about it. And believe me, I have gone to extreme measures to educate myself.

2. Even if we were purchasing a new license for Production Premium, at CLP pricing, it would cost about $400, plus another $300 for 2 years of maintenance licensing. That's $700 for 4 years of product licensing, with all upgrades included. With the Creative Cloud for education, it would be $240 for the first year, plus $1080 for the next 3 years, for a total $1320 over 4 years. That's STILL almost twice as much, and at the end of that 4 years, we have nothing. At the end of 4 years of CLP, we still have the newest version of the software.

3. The simple fact is that we are no longer able to continue in a system that Adobe sold to us, on a promise of budget predictability. The is the opposite of predictable from our standpoint. We have already budgeted the promised annual cost of $75 to keep our Production Premium licenses current. To keep the software we need for our program, there is no option. Adobe did, in fact, pull out the rug, because we only have $75 a year per seat. What can we get for the $75 a year that we have budgeted, thanks to Adobe's failed promised? Lightworks.

4. Even at the promotional rate of $20 a month, Adobe has overpriced the Creative Cloud for education when compared to its traditional educational pricing. For as long as I can remember, Adobe discounted their software about 75% for its educational customers, which is why they are currently the leader in the educational market. To keep with that practice of discounting 75-80% for education, the price should be $10-12.50 per month for the Creative Cloud. At that price, I might actually be able to get the cost approved. It may still be double our current costs, but I believe that THIS is the price-point where the extra benefits of the full suite of products becomes a viable value.

Thanks again Dennis for contributing to our discussion. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that you provided me with much in the way of new information, and certainly have not given us any viable options. We simply cannot afford this price increase, and we will likely not buy any more Adobe products. We'll use CS6 or CS6.5 (our maintenance still lasts until summer) as long as possible, and then move on to something else.

So Adobe probably has about a year to provide us with a realistic option. I hope they do, because my students absolutely love the Adobe products.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 8, 2013 at 10:06:43 pm

Chris, please ping me via email or private note on this forum or via Twitter (@TheGenesisProj) or via my blog with a comment. The Genesis Project

I'd like to understand your specific issue better and if I can help you out.

Dennis - Adobe


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Chris Jacek
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 7, 2013 at 3:55:30 pm

Finally, thanks to someone for actually hearing what I'm saying. I thought I've been clear enough, but all I keep getting from others (especially those at Adobe) is that the Creative Cloud is a better deal than we currently have. Despite the continued claims that the simple math works out if favor of Creative Cloud, it is simply not true. Not in my case. And not in the case of ANY educational CLP customers who have taken advantage of the maintenance licensing that has been an Adobe mainstay for years, if not decades.

Here, once again, is my simple math. Our current costs, including instant upgrades for every CS release, is $6.25 per month, per seat, for Production Premium. The cloud is $20 a month, and then $30 a month after a year. That math seems pretty simple to me.

Is $6.25 a month an insanely good deal? Hell yes! That's how Adobe won our business. That, and the excellence of their products. Unfortunately, in the world of bottom lines in higher education, excellence alone is not enough. Genarts Sapphire is awesome, but $850 for a plug-in (that's after 50% educational discount) is NEVER going to happen. So here we were, paying our $6.25 a month per seat, and being the world's most enthusiastic Adobe cheerleaders, and now we are being told by Adobe that our best financial option is $30 a month? No even remotely true.

If Adobe really believed that this new $30 a month option was the best deal, why did they INSTANTLY kill the maintenance licensing program. It was barely a month from announcement to death. If the Cloud was so obviously a better deal, wouldn't we all flock to it, and abandon the maintenance program that has served as so well in the past? There would be no need to kill the existing program if the new option was so much better. The only reason to kill a program that abruptly, is because you are trying to force everyone into a more expensive model.

Or to put it in a pop-culture context, "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it further."

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 8, 2013 at 2:50:10 pm

[Chris Jacek] "Or to put it in a pop-culture context, "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it further.""

Very nice.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Jacek
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 9, 2013 at 3:23:35 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "[Chris Jacek] "Or to put it in a pop-culture context, "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it further.""

Very nice."


Thanks. I figure you can never go wrong with an Empire reference. I'd say it's the best of the series, but I don't want to start another major debate.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Chris Jacek
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 7, 2013 at 12:56:19 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "Chris, I don't think you have all of the facts here. For example, maintenance is built into the new model pricing structure. One thing Adobe has always done is give very good value to our customers. You might not like the model and that's okay, but I'd encourage you to get all of the facts."

Actually, I think the model is a pretty good idea. It is the price that we have a problem with. The iTunes music store could still be a great model regardless of price, but if songs cost $10 each, nobody would like it.

The math is actually ridiculously simple. We currently pay $6.25 a month per seat to keep current with all the Adobe products we use (Production Premium package). To keep that same functionality under the Creative Cloud system would cost us $30 a month per seat, after the promotional period. We can't afford that. We don't need the extras like Dreamweaver, cloud storage, etc.., They would be nice, but not in our current plans.

Make no mistake, the actual model of the Creative Cloud would be just fine if it didn't quintuple our costs. Offer my school the Creative Cloud for $6.25 per month, and we'll sign up today.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Craig Seeman
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 2:34:34 pm

I'd note that "the industry" is not a monolith.
There a many professional niches in which an NLE dominates and others where other NLEs are quite serviceable.

One really has to think more about tool kits than just an individual tool.

One also should realize that some tools are developing so fast that key features may be added in just a few months.



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Gary Huff
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 2:59:03 pm

[Craig Seeman] "One also should realize that some tools are developing so fast that key features may be added in just a few months."

That's legit, but at the same time there are plenty of people who have gone through school and never even touched an AVID, and that should not be the case.

When someone says "the industry" to me, I think of the broadcast/production houses who will typically post an ad looking for an editor with specific NLE experience.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 3:10:09 pm

If you define the term "industry" you may be able to define the commonly used NLEs within it.
A college may realize that number of jobs in broadcast and film is only a subset of all available post production jobs.

Those involved with corporate post production may be using different tools for example.

Someone starting their own business with limited funds might be looking for cost effective tools for example.



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Michael Hancock
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 3:14:21 pm

[Craig Seeman] "If you define the term "industry" you may be able to define the commonly used NLEs within it."

[Brian Pistone] "I am writing curriculum this summer for the Television Broadcasting Production and Technology program for my school district."

Television Broadcasting, per the OP's original text. So I'd recommend Avid and Edius, maybe Premiere.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Craig Seeman
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 3:51:56 pm

I think at the high school level people may use the term "Television Broadcasting" as a catch all. If you're preparing students for the job market, most of the jobs are probably not in Television Broadcasting. The use of video in online marketing seems to be growing much faster for example.



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Geoff Addis
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 5:27:28 pm

I would endorse Edius from Grass valley. Although it is a 32 bit application it has been my experiennce that it is a rock solid performer that copes with most all formats. Its real time performance equals or betters that of FCPX and it has some of the best colour tools available. The current version also incorporates the necessary tools to ensure that audio levels may be monitored in accordance with the latest loudness recommendations that are now being implemented by the broadcasters. The package includes DVD and Bluray burning software if that is important to you.

For what it is worth, I know that Edius is making significent inroads into the broadcasting environment.

I would suggest that you download the 30 day trial version, but note that it is Windows based, but it runs well under Boot Camp. Also, look at the various GV Edius tutorials - they will give you a good insight.

I might add that I use both FCPX and Edius and this is not an FCPX bashing posting.

Geoff.


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Shane Ross
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 5:52:59 pm

If broadcast TV is the goal, then Avid is the main player. FCP was #2...but with the death of FCP 7 and birth of FCX...that's going to change. Adobe Premiere Pro is the best suited app to fill that gap. But in the meantime, while it gets ready to do so, people are falling back on Avid, and still using FCP 7.

Edius is mainly used in news organizations and some live TV with packages. If it's feature film, network TV, cable TV...Avid is the key player.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Andy Field
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 6:05:32 pm

Agree with Shane - local stations are either using Edius or Avid - with a smattering of FCP 7 -

Some (including Saturday Night Live and Conan) are now using Premiere Pro

no where in the "for hire - use our equipment" market have i found a single instance of FCP X. Doesn't make it a bad program...just little or no demand now coming up on two years of it being on the market

Sure it's fine for one man band operations and boutique agencies that have found it useful in Promo and short form workflows (with a number of work around dealing with primary tracks and audio mixing)

Bottom Line - you need to know virtually everything today - if you are a production editor for hire -you need to be at least proficient in

After Effects
Premiere Pro
AVID
FCP 7 (doesn't seem to be disappearing)

Edius is useful at the local news level as well as Grass Valley Aurora's System....but either of those are a quick learn if you know the others

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Chris Harlan
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 6:05:08 pm

[Craig Seeman] "If you define the term "industry" you may be able to define the commonly used NLEs within it."

May I suggest that you take a look at the name of the program: Television Broadcasting Production and Technology

If the name is accurate, I would suggest Avid and maybe Premiere.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 6:16:06 pm

As I said, many curriculum use that as a catch all phrase. It's a lot sexier than Video Production and I can't say I see many called Corporate video despite the fact that there are many more jobs in that area.



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Gary Huff
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 7:11:24 pm

[Craig Seeman] "As I said, many curriculum use that as a catch all phrase. I"

Seriously, Craig, come on now.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 8:02:11 pm

Seriously if they want students to be employable it would be good to cover the industry rather than just one niche. Back when I was in high school our "Broadcast" class was really Video (we didn't have "Broadcast" equipment although maybe Umatic was broadcast after all).



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Chris Harlan
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 8:13:26 pm

Man, you are working overtime to get X into this conversation. You KNOW its not goin' in unless you redefine the given terms. I'm sure that among the many curricula that offer "Broadcast Television," there are a few that are mislabeled, but to assume that it is so from the outset does not seem reasonable.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 8:19:07 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Man, you are working overtime to get X into this conversation."

I haven't mentioned X at all. I don't think I've even mentioned it in passing. Like occasional threads in this forum it's an industry discussion. As the subject says "Prepare a Student for College and Industry" which is really what these high school classes are about as opposed to "Broadcast" specifically.



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Shane Ross
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 8:00:58 pm

[Craig Seeman] "As I said, many curriculum use that as a catch all phrase."

Then you are using it wrong. Television Broadcasting means programming broadcast to televisions. Over the airwaves. Not a DVD you put into a DVD player and then...hey, it's on the TV! People who get into a television broadcast class intend to work in broadcast television. it doesn't always work out...and even those of us in broadcast TV do a lot of work that isn't broadcast....corporate video, sizzle reels, actor demos, web videos.

The terminology is clear. If you mean VIDEO PRODUCTION, then say it. If I was a student and took a broadcast television class, and it didn't focus on actual broadcast television...I'd complain about false advertising.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Craig Seeman
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 8:11:41 pm

[Shane Ross] "Then you are using it wrong. Television Broadcasting means programming broadcast to televisions. Over the airwaves"

In High School often Television Broadcasting is actually VIdeo Production... it was in my case. Most High Schools don't have Broadcast equipment. College is more of a mixed bag.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 8:15:40 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Most High Schools don't have Broadcast equipment."

Really? I'm shocked. You are just going to keep beating this? C'mon, man. Crack a smile. You can do it.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 8:23:44 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Crack a smile. You can do it."

I was smiling didn't you see it? ;)
Oh that's a wink, sorry.



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Christian Schumacher
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 5, 2013 at 11:24:41 pm

You're missing a big point here, who's to say corporate/web video isn't produced with the same standards as in broadcast? Sure there are many small ones around but I do know of a production company that cranks out awarded feature films, high-end commercials and international cable shows and they started producing corporate/web videos in 2010. Eventually, additional personnel were hired to work on these other kinds of projects and that team is now comprised of writers, music composers, directors, senior editors, assistants, motion graphics artists, colorists, producers, etc. Actually, the department grew over time due to the success of this enterprise, in which quality of the content played a major role, mind you. It's all run like documentaries or TV shows are, really. No change there, except for the not-so-crazy-deadlines, reduced budget and also the smaller scope of the projects themselves, even though most are international. But post production speaking now, it's fiber and some dozens of macpros mostly as FCS seats, and just starting the process of heading everything back to AVID. That is a global assessment of the NLE use within this company, not only corporate. Could all the king's horses and all the king's men put FCP together again? Specially if the next macpro is indeed a flop, no way IMO.


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Gary Huff
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 12:00:38 am

[Christian Schumacher] "Specially if the next macpro is indeed a flop, no way IMO."

If the next Mac Pro is an iMac design with a single Xeon CPU and a Quadro M GPU, will it be a flop?


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Christian Schumacher
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 2:48:40 am

[Gary Huff] " If the next Mac Pro is an iMac design with a single Xeon CPU and a Quadro M GPU, will it be a flop?"

This would be indeed a good transitional product for professionals who still can afford to go Apple, and would give FCPX a magnificent uplift, I believe. (As long as it runs Final Cut Studio without a glitch HA!) A more concrete flop would be a no-show, obviously. IMO as it stands today, even with a theoretical iMacPro, FCPX is good only for small and medium sized productions which are mostly self-contained. In my example that wouldn't work much for two reasons, it won't be very serviceable and Thunderbolt ecosystem is scarce, expensive and limited. Note that most of Mac Pros in that company have to run 24/7 and do have to outsource some of their processes like 3D, composing, mixing, coloring, sharing, finishing, etc Yet these machines are optimised and fully speced for heavy use, some with internal RAIDs, some with special GPUs, PCI cards, Monitors, etc. And many play double, triple, your call. That's the paradigm shift, the magnetic timeline is a mere poster child of this epic play. Out in the field I see Mac Pros running FCStudio (perhaps some 2011 iMacs running 10.0.5 and 2012 iMacs running 10.0.8 and 2013 iMacPros running 10.0.10 oh! It will be fun! You know, plug-in and Resolve compatibility)


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 12:08:10 am

I'm inclined to agree with Craig that a high school level class might be using the term 'broadcast' in a very loose sense but I think that's beside the point.

IMO a HS curriculum shouldn't be overly concerned with the tools as I don't think any college program is going to tell a kid, "Oh, you don't know NLE XYZ? Sorry, we can't accepted you into our program." Plus, from a professional standpoint, the landscape could be totally different by the time the students graduate college and get into the workplace. Teach the fundamentals of production (which are applicable regardless of which camera you shoot with or which NLE you cut with) and get kids into work study or internship programs with local production facilities.

For juniors or seniors in college I can see the value in trying to get them exposed to software and hardware that they most likely will encounter once they hit the job market but for HS students I think it's too soon to worry about that kind of thing.




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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 3:54:03 am

I think Andrew has a good point - in my experience at a broadcast station, we took in interns from a few regional colleges who were strong on a "broadcast" oriented education. We never expected them to know the equipment - the software maybe (Photoshop, maybe AE) - but they came to the station to learn the equipment we had, and many of them were subsequently hired.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Brian Pistone
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 11:05:49 am

I agree with you Andrew.

I was slightly incorrect in my initial post; the course name is currently "Communications Technology" and is changing to "TV Broadcasting Technology".

Our district is unique because we have 4 high schools and a district TV studio that broadcasts our news, psa's, and live events via Comcast and Verizon. We also have a mobile production truck that travels to each school for sports broadcasting and other events. We produce a daily live news broadcast and a weekly "SNL style" variety show, that airs with live hosts and produced segments. This gets recorded and transferred to our website/youtube and we have 12 seasons archived on our site. Search "high school television" and you'll find us.

I think the software needs to prepare the student for any NLE and should prepare students for college. We prepare them with skills and TONS of experience (more than I received in college) on a variety of gear and they leave with an impressive portfolio.

The AVID argument is valid, I'm not sure on cost. If we can get both FCPX and Adobe Production Suite licenses for the same cost, then I think that might be the best way to go because we can get experience on 2 NLEs.


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Michael Hancock
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 3:39:05 pm

[Brian Pistone] "The AVID argument is valid, I'm not sure on cost."

Education licenses are $295 a piece - when I taught we bought a 10 pack and got a slight discount. In addition, any student can purchase it for $295 and they get 4 years of free upgrades. In that respect it's the cheapest of the bunch.

So I'd teach Avid and Premiere, given your update. The entire Adobe suite is useful to know and fits perfectly with your SNL type stuff, where you might do more compositing/motion graphics/AE type stuff, and Avid is very prominent in television/broadcast. Has your market had stations switch to FCPX or have you seen a real adoption of the software in your area? If not, I'd consider it the odd man out, especially since the timeline mechanics and terminology are different from every other NLE on the market. Skills on Avid translate very quickly to Adobe and vice versa - I'm not convinced FCPX skills translate as easily to another NLE if it's all they've learned.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Bill Davis
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 4:54:30 am

[Christian Schumacher] "Specially if the next macpro is indeed a flop, no way IMO.
"


Wow, nice to know that a thing that nobody outside the internal Apple labs has a single clue about is already getting spun as "a flop."

It's SO important, after all, not to actually wait for real things and judge them on their merits, but to allow your opinions to be pre-set by definitionally clueless internet posts.

At least we can all rest now. The unveiled new MacPro is a total failure. I read it on Creative Cow before it was released - so it MUST be true.

Which talk show host last week was making people look incredibly dumb via "man on the street" style interviews asking them about the Oscar results a few days BEFORE the telecast?

Nice standard for our favorite forum.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 5:23:41 am

[Bill Davis] "[Christian Schumacher] "Specially if the next macpro is indeed a flop, no way IMO.
"

Wow, nice to know that a thing that nobody outside the internal Apple labs has a single clue about is already getting spun as "a flop."
"


Huh? You do understand the conditional implications of the word "if"--right?


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Bill Davis
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 6:01:35 am

[Chris Harlan] "Huh? You do understand the conditional implications of the word "if"--right?"

I do Chris,

I also undersand the implications of the word "indeed" - which presumes a factual basis for the concept. (synonyms: truly, factually, etc.) Without that word, I'd agree with you. But with it, the OP implies the concept is based in fact.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 6:36:33 am

[Bill Davis] "[Chris Harlan] "Huh? You do understand the conditional implications of the word "if"--right?"

I do Chris,

I also undersand the implications of the word "indeed" - which presumes a factual basis for the concept. (synonyms: truly, factually, etc.) Without that word, I'd agree with you. But with it, the OP implies the concept is based in fact.
"


Well, Bill, as I see it, the word "indeed" as used is synonymous with "actually," as in "what if it actually turns out that..." In other words, "What if the reality is..." The synonyms you suggest all say the same thing, as well. IMHO, you are reacting to things that are, indeed, not there. ;)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 1:27:26 pm

[Brian Pistone] " Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?"

Microsoft Excel for budgeting.

A tax/accounting software.

A robust social network for finding new clients, in which some software might help maintain these realtionships such as an email program, and social network applications, and of course, a web browser.

Teach them how to negotiate and that the discounted rate or price they might give someone for the first job will set a precedent, so choose wisely.

The rest will fall in to place provided they have the drive and talent.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 6, 2013 at 1:52:39 pm

Simply put, you should teach all three major apps or at least the ones that you feel are going to best prepare your students for a career in editing and content creation. One thing you should teach - change is inevitable! No doubt this thread has advocates from any number of NLE's and if you review the last 10 years, you'll see a number of tectonic shifts in the editing landscape. I believe one is still going on now.

So, teach about preparedness, teach the fundamentals of editing (story-telling and the mechanics of telling a good story through editing) and I think the rest will start to work itself out.

As the Adobe guy, I think Premiere Pro is a no-brainer and it should be included in the curriculum, no doubt. However, if you feel the market is different and that another NLE the way to go, by all means, lead with that.

Dennis - Adobe guy.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?
on Mar 7, 2013 at 4:49:35 pm

I'm with you, Dennis, as well as all the others who have given an even-handed whack at the issue. As I said earlier, from my experience, the interns came in with some vague experience with Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere, and maybe FCP7 (this was four years ago and prior to that). Our job was to give them hands-on experience in a broadcast TV environment, which involved everything from running camera, prompter, audio board, and other standard studio chores, to learning (actually learning, hands-on) Photoshop, Premiere Pro, AVID Newscutter, Soundbooth, and other hardware and software critical to the day-to-day workflow in broadcast news creation and delivery.

My feeling was that the best experience we could give the intern was a broad hands-on usage of everything used in that context. Walking out of an internship with software, audio, camera, field-production, studio production, and grip skills better prepares the student for the real world out there - and it increases the odds of their finding a job in the "real" world...be that broadcast, industial in-house production, high-end west and east coast production crews, and whatever shows up next...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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