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Brave new world. Again.

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Bob Woodhead
Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 12:03:59 pm

Just had another "wow, has it changed" moment of the past 30 years...

I've been on location for the week, shooting & editing a wrap-up film for large corporate conference closing session. Needed to check out of the hotel room on final day, before the edit's finished, or even approved, so I move to the lobby coffeeshop to set up the "edit suite".

Here's the "moment"; I'm sitting there working on motion graphics, color correction, and edit tweaks, rocking out to music, moving along about as fast as I can think of ideas, and I realize that, other than the slightly hard chair I'm in, this is as efficient as any edit suite I've ever had. Not only that, in front of me on the little table is something like 14TB of drives, with a Thunderbolt RAID edit drive, a music library of over 3500 tracks, 100,000 sound effects, media readers for P2, C300, and DSLR... AND ROOM LEFT OVER FOR MY COFFEE.

The Chief of Staff for the Big Guy comes over 30 minutes before airtime, puts in the VModa headphones, and watches the cut on the MBP Retina 15, with a growing smile and "Awesome" at the end.

High fives, and switch to the next project, with a fresh cuppa.

Complain as we might, and should, about how the current crop of tools can be better, but no matter how you slice it, it's a pretty damn fun time to be an editor. Quite a long way from waiting for engineering to show up to patch your extra channel of ADO...

"Constituo, ergo sum"

Bob Woodhead / Atlanta
CMX-Quantel-Avid-FCP-Premiere-3D-AFX-Crayola
"What a long strange trip it's been...."


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Nick Toth
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 12:42:59 pm

That's funny - just this morning I was thinking about when I used to edit a 30 minute sports program with over 75 source tapes in multiple formats.........ugh!!

"Waiting for engineering...." LOL!!

anickt


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 12:58:58 pm

Or hard-rolling a 1 inch tape machine, then running across the room to hit Record on a Beta deck, because Engineering was too busy with their coffee and cigarettes to do it right.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:34:02 pm

Somewhere about a year ago here I made pretty much this same post after I used X on my laptop to re-cut some client work for a presentation while sitting in a coffee shop in downtown Phoenix.

And the usual suspects piled on me for being a clueless noob arguing that "anyone can edit on laptops nowadays." I remember thinking that what they were kinda missing the point.

It's not the fact of being able "to edit" in a coffeeshop. It's the serious feeling of being able to edit without practical limitations that makes such a huge difference.

That's what feels so fresh and fun these days about my work.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:51:36 pm

[Bill Davis] "It's the serious feeling of being able to edit without practical limitations that makes such a huge difference."

More piling on. There are practical limitations to editing in a coffee shop. Monitoring a final mix with earphones can lead to a mix that is muddy when heard on a TV because the earphones exaggerate the subtle sounds and the stereo space of the mix, which is why audio engineers never monitor a mix with earphones. Cutting on a small screen can hide unwanted details that show up on a large screen and effect the choice of shots - not a problem if your cutting for the web or an iphone, but a definite limitation if cutting for a large screen.

It's nice that modern computers have gotten so fast that they are capable of handling the enormous throughput required by video editing, however the human body has not changed, which is why editing solely on laptops will always involve compromise.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 8:15:58 pm

[Herb Sevush] " Monitoring a final mix with earphones can lead to a mix that is muddy when heard on a TV because the earphones exaggerate the subtle sounds and the stereo space of the mix, which is why audio engineers never monitor a mix with earphones. Cutting on a small screen can hide unwanted details that show up on a large screen and effect the choice of shots - not a problem if your cutting for the web or an iphone, but a definite limitation if cutting for a large screen."

Not buying these arguments, Herb. And look at the very terms you've felt compelled to use here. earphones "can" lead to... and laptops "can" hide unwanted details... thats true. But it's equally true that these tools can also work fabulously. The difference is knowing how to use them. If a person knows how to LISTEN properly, they can make judgements about most of this stuff on any full spectrum sound reproducer - whether that's mounted in a wooden box in a tuned room or in a plastic earbud is largely irrelevant. That's proven by the fact that you can sit a noob in a Dolby sound stage and give a qualified soundie a set of earbuds we all KNOW which one will pick out a problem with 60 cycle hum in a nanosecond.

And more important, if you have doubts about your judgement, you can take the same laptop TO THE VENUE - whether it's a theatre or conference hall - and PLAY the mix "in situ." and make your decisions there. The "studio suite" is no more accurate a reflection of the final sound location than anywhere else, it's just constructed to be as "neutral" as possible. But "neutral" isnt' the same as "optimized" when it comes to sound. (the very reason all serious sound studios have Auratones on the monitor bridge!)

And I'm not buying point two as well, a Retina MacBook Pro has PLENTY of resolution to enable a person (who knows what to look for) to judge raster quality. Colorometry is another issue, but even that's MUCH easier to judge in modern digital color space than it used to be in the analog world. Scopes are scopes after all, and if you're worried about potential color issues in digital space, there's nothing stopping anyone from using a modern tech analysis display to decode what the ones and zeros are instructing the screen to show.

So on the whole, the big issue is that some people are just naturally unwilling to change their thinking.

I know that there are some youngsters who still dig analog LPs - but regardless of how much anyone enjoys that particularly wonderfully skewed sound, it lost dominance because the new processes won the market place battle.

And production, even high level production, as something that can ONLY be done in a high-end suite is an eroding concept. That's environment might be a serious contender - might be the most comfortable, comvenient or even the most sensible for a given project - but it's no longer the ONLY one. And it might not be the BEST one, depending on the project.

THAT is the significant change happening out there.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 8:22:33 pm

[Bill Davis] "Not buying these arguments, Herb. And look at the weasel words you've felt compelled to use here. earphones "can" lead to... and laptops "can" hide unwanted details... thats true. But it's equally true that these tools can also work fabulously. The difference is knowing how to use them. If a person knows how to LISTEN properly, they can make judgements about most of this stuff on any full spectrum sound reproducer - whether that's mounted in a wooden box in a tuned room or in a plastic earbud is largely irrelevant."

I'm compelled to jump in here Bill, but Herb is right. Sure, you can mix on headphones, but what you end up with will sound like crap on a TV, or in a theater. Again, you can certainly do all these things and get great results. But mixing a corporate promo for a trade show, TV Spot, youtube video. theatrical trailer or feature, all require different monitoring. Headphones won't work for everything. Neither will a laptop.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Bret Williams
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 8:34:53 pm

And the monitor thing is even worse. I have a really nice iMac and a Flanders monitor hooked up via SDI. The SDI is 10bit. As far as I can tell, the mac monitor is 8bit. Many times I've thought something matched (like a white surrounded graphic over white) but on the SDI monitor it did not. Whether my iMac is out of adjustment or not, that's exactly the point. It doesn't show some stuff that would make me look very foolish if it showed up on the big screen at an event.


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Bill Davis
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 10:34:32 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Sure, you can mix on headphones, but what you end up with will sound like crap on a TV, or in a theater"

i MIGHT buy the theatre analogy since mixing for 5.1 surround is obviously best done ON a 5.1 surround system.

But TV? Seriously? You're telling me I can't mix audio on a laptop with headphones for a broadcast TV signal that's ultimately likely to hit a transmitters "brick wall" limiting? Really?

I do a fair bit of work that ends up on major market radio and network affiliate TV. And so far not a SINGLE person anywhere along my distribution chain has EVER said that my mixes don't do just fine.

So am I just insanely lucky? I don't think so.

Again, I'm not saying that a tuned suite isn't a great thing. And I certainly spent quite a bit of my own money soundproofing the control room in my own studio so that my HR 824s are properly isolated and reasonably accurate. But I've also mixed directly to my laptop via headphones and NOBODY has ever had a problem with that work. Not once. If you can HEAR your mix properly, you'll know most of what you'll need to know. You learn to be wary that closefield headphone monitoring might be making the voice/bed ratio too close, and you build the experience to err on the side of the part of the mix that's carrying the info. And that's typically voice over music/background sounds. Problem solved.

I'm not arguing that anyone shouldn't use a studio. Heck, that's why I built the one I'm sitting in and writing this from right now...



BTW, that photo is about 4 years old now and a good chunk of my the gear like the CRT monitor and hardware WFM/VS have been retired in favor of more modern digital tools.

I'm essentially arguing against the idea that qualified people MUST be tied to a formal studio in order to do competent or even excellent work.

I just don't think it's required any more. Nice, sure. Useful? definitely. But not REQUIRED.

My view anyway.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 11:23:56 pm

[Bill Davis] "[Charlie Austin] "Sure, you can mix on headphones, but what you end up with will sound like crap on a TV, or in a theater"

i MIGHT buy the theatre analogy since mixing for 5.1 surround is obviously best done ON a 5.1 surround system.

But TV? Seriously? You're telling me I can't mix audio on a laptop with headphones for a broadcast TV signal that's ultimately likely to hit a transmitters "brick wall" limiting? Really?

I do a fair bit of work that ends up on major market radio and network affiliate TV. And so far not a SINGLE person anywhere along my distribution chain has EVER said that my mixes don't do just fine. "


I'm not saying it can't be done, of course it can. I'm simply saying that a mix done on headphones will sound totally different on a TV (or whatever). It might be fine, or it might suck... you just can't tell. Hell, in my mixing days, sitting in a small theater with a dolby certified 5.1 theatrical sound system and a top of the line set of tuned near field monitors, I did most of my TV mixing through a mid range sony stereo TV. People loved my mixes. But I wouldn't mix a trailer on the TV. Mix for what the final product is going to be. I'd mix a radio spot on headphones... maybe. ;-)

[Bill Davis] I'm essentially arguing against the idea that qualified people MUST be tied to a formal studio in order to do competent or even excellent work.

I agree.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Chris Harlan
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 3:04:25 am

[Charlie Austin] "But TV? Seriously? You're telling me I can't mix audio on a laptop with headphones for a broadcast TV signal that's ultimately likely to hit a transmitters "brick wall" limiting? Really?

I do a fair bit of work that ends up on major market radio and network affiliate TV. And so far not a SINGLE person anywhere along my distribution chain has EVER said that my mixes don't do just fine. "

I'm not saying it can't be done, of course it can. I'm simply saying that a mix done on headphones will sound totally different on a TV (or whatever). It might be fine, or it might suck... you just can't tell. "


Charlie's right. You can do a simple mix with headphones, but past that, you can't rely on it. You run into all kinds of problems with distorted frequency response that tend toward overly colored, overly warm mid tones, misrepresented low tones and dead spots in stereo imaging. I use headphones all the time--I have a nice pair of Beyerdynamic 880s--because they let you pick up on all kinds of detail and garbage that I might not otherwise easily notice, and they make a valuable component to a mix, but unless you balance them out with a good pair near-fields you are asking for trouble. I also throw in mid-rangey consumer speakers, like those on a on a Macbook Pro, to get a taste of what I'm hearing as most others will hear it.

Certainly, if you are aware of the problems, you can make mental adjustments and educated guesses. I do that all the time, as well. And, monitoring meters also helps. There are also a couple of nifty plugins like Redline's 112DB, that help with imaging and some of the dynamic range. Overall, though, once you've passed a certain complexity of mix, it is a bad habit to get into.

Over the last three or four years, I think every mix I've rejected was rejected because the preditor that turned it in to me had mixed on headphones, and the problems are so specific that I can easily identify them as being from a headphone mix. The three biggest problems are: 1) too little volume of a bass or mid-range track that carries the rhythm of a piece because the color of that frequency is so much brighter over head phones than on speaker playback, 2) jarring sub-bass artifacts that aren't audible at their actual frequency over headphones, and 3) VO that is mixed at too low a volume because the bass of the voice talent seems higher and louder to the headphone wearer.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 8:29:02 pm

[Bill Davis] "So on the whole, the big issue is that some people are just naturally unwilling to change their thinking."

I'm pretty sure this the highlight.

Franz.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 9:08:25 pm

[Bill Davis] "Not buying these arguments, Herb."

Now there's a shock.

[Bill Davis] "If a person knows how to LISTEN properly, they can make judgements about most of this stuff on any full spectrum sound reproducer - whether that's mounted in a wooden box in a tuned room or in a plastic earbud is largely irrelevant. That's proven by the fact that you can sit a noob in a Dolby sound stage and give a qualified soundie a set of earbuds we all KNOW which one will pick out a problem with 60 cycle hum in a nanosecond."

A perfect example of a strawman argument. The fact is that no professional mixer, if given a choice, will ever ever ever mix with earphones. Not in my experience. Not in 40 years. And there's a reason for that. Will it always cause problems - no. Can it cause problems - yes. And I wouldn't want to stake my job on the difference.

[Bill Davis] "And I'm not buying point two as well, a Retina MacBook Pro has PLENTY of resolution to enable a person (who knows what to look for) to judge raster quality."

While judging final color on any non calibrated computer screen is always an issue I wasn't really talking about that. I was talking about the impact a given shot has, which changes given the screen size. Which is why feature editors periodically watch their shows on a full size screen, because it can't be evaluated any other way. Which is why a broadcast editor wants to see it on a large enough screen to evaluate before sending it out for airing. Which is why I paid 1K extra for the 24" reference monitor over the 17" monitor, and why I wish I could afford a 42" reference monitor.

Yes, you can take a laptop to a screening room, but then again you can also hook up real monitors and speakers and even a large keyboard to a laptop and voila you now have a somewhat under-powered overpriced desktop. But what you can't do is sit in a starbucks all day with your laptop and tell me your working without limitations.


[Bill Davis] "And production, even high level production, as something that can ONLY be done in a high-end suite is an eroding concept. That's environment might be a serious contender - might be the most comfortable, convenient or even the most sensible for a given project - but it's no longer the ONLY one. And it might not be the BEST one, depending on the project. THAT is the significant change happening out there."

Bill, I have been editing out of my house since 1985. I started finishing out of my house in 1998. I totally closed my office in the city 3 years ago. I've never said anything is the only thing. I just objected when Craig called something "the future" and I responded by saying it was "a future" but not "the only future." See, we are actually in agreement here.

I understand that some projects need to be cut on location and I've already agreed that there has never been better tools for that then now. However there is no project that I wouldn't rather cut in my home studio then on a laptop if quality were the only issue.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Michael Sanders
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 9:35:59 pm

[Bill Davis] "Not buying these arguments, Herb. And look at the very terms you've felt compelled to use here. earphones "can" lead to... and laptops "can" hide unwanted details... thats true. But it's equally true that these tools can also work fabulously. "

Nope, sorry I agree with Herb.

I've missed small things by cutting on laptop screens before and there's no way even my HD25's in a noisy environment can match either my PMC's or Fostex 6301's.

Even today I was looking at a blur effect on something, looked great on the laptop but when I put it on the big screen.. terrible!

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Craig Seeman
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 8:28:50 pm

[Herb Sevush] "More piling on. There are practical limitations to editing in a coffee shop."

But the alternative is that you can still edit at home and have a professional edit room. Most of the gear is small enough. Most is affordable for a professional to own... and where you can't own you can rent for the job at hand.

One may not prefer to edit on a laptop and while they're certainly inconveniences, for many jobs, it's not a deal breaker and in many other cases it's the only way the job can get done on time.



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Andy Field
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 10:02:44 pm

Herb, you are such a Debbie Downer! :-) How about someone invent natural sounding headphone so we can edit in a phone booth! (wait there are no more phone booths)

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Herb Sevush
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 10:10:18 pm

[Andy Field] "Herb, you are such a Debbie Downer! :-)"

I think of myself as cynical rather than downbeat. I do that because then I can quote the Devil's Dictionary definition:

CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.

Ambrose Bierce

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 10:49:13 pm

[Herb Sevush] "CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.

Ambrose Bierce"


One point for quoting Bierce.

One additional point for using the term blackguard, even if via a quotation!

move along now.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Bob Woodhead
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 3:39:08 pm

Well, the screens (2) were.... really big... don't know size, but there were over 500 people in the room, and the projectors getting the ProRes 1080 signal were Christies. And the sound was... well, loud. As was the applause at the end.

So.... ummm.... I guess I failed?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 3:40:39 pm

[Bob Woodhead] "So.... ummm.... I guess I failed?"

Totally and completely. 100%.

Nice going, Bob, you ruined it.


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Bill Davis
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 4:23:11 pm

[Bob Woodhead] "Well, the screens (2) were.... really big... don't know size, but there were over 500 people in the room, and the projectors getting the ProRes 1080 signal were Christies. And the sound was... well, loud. As was the applause at the end.

So.... ummm.... I guess I failed?"


Now you're starting to understand things, Bob.

What's important is that you do your work the same way that we other professionals do it.

This creates a "cone of professionalism" that other pros recognize and appreciate. This, in turn, reinforces the important concept that money spent buying the same gear as everyone else, including the same meters, monitors, keyboards and fancy chairs (I LOVE MINE!) and putting it in the same type of commercial space (hip, but largely rectangular since, you know, walls) is a key element in the recipe for success.

In the face of that, your personal laptop generated success in this instance must be slotted somewhere between a silly fluke and downright worrisome.

After all, the commercial real estate industry is counting on our humble trade to do our share to make them more wealthy...

So get on board, darnit.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 1:10:55 pm

I remember traveling with no less than 5 huge, giant, heavy cases to go do a remote edit.

Now I can go with a backpack and another carry on. Today, I couldn't get those heavy cases on an airplane if I tried.

There's a lot of talk around here about Apple providing incapable machines.

The retina MacBook Pro is nothing short of amazing for a such a small package.

Sure, it might take a little bit of retooling the external parts, but so what. There are new tools evrywhere, retooling is the nature of production. I agree with you, it is rather remarkable what can be done these days. It's no fun to be scared of it.

In my opinion, FCPX is purpose built for a more modern setup. It is light and efficient, but for certain workflows, it could also serve to have a huge wad of processors thrown at it.

You can do so many things concurrently with fcpx, and it is built to let you do all these things at once. As good as the i7s are, it makes me think that Apple had more than Quad cores in mind when conceiving this application, and as you have astutely pointed out, there's still room for coffee.

Jeremy


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Clint Wardlow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 3:07:40 pm

Ahhhh, c'mon. Don't you all long for the days of a flatbed that takes up a whole room and weighs more than a pickup truck? A/B Rolls? Scratch tracks? Fullcoat? And expensive work prints followed by a mega-expensive answer print?


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tony west
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 3:50:24 pm

But don't you miss the exercise?

Walk across the room to switch tapes in the decks.

Walk over to the still store.

Walk over to the character generator

Walk over to the copy cam stand.

Oh, one of these decks is not working. Pull it out of the rack and carry in another one and cable it up.
Remember holding that deck while trying to line up those rack rails. You didn't need the gym.

I guess I will have to get my workout on my mountain bike these days

: )


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Bret Williams
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 4:01:05 pm

After waking up to find that 4 AE renders failed and I'm supposed to upload to Vimeo in a few minutes I kinda wished I had a graphics guy to yell at or fire. But still, I agree.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 4:06:20 pm

The Ae fail sound is one of the best in the business.


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Bret Williams
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 4:11:28 pm

I like the AE complete chime better. But damn is it loud sometimes. I was sleeping during the fail sound I suppose. Lately, if a drive or the system is allowed to go to sleep, AE fails it seems. Then I come in (downstairs) in the morning and wake up the system and AE picks up and starts rendering again. In 17 years of doing AE I've never seen a system go to sleep while AE is rendering. After all, it's doing something. It's not idle. Something is wackly with the latest mountain lion and AE / sleep.

And yes, I forgot to turn off sleep in the energy saver settings last night.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 4:09:29 pm

Apple is ignoring professionals. There's no way I can hook up and control the Ampex AVR2.
I think you exemplify the modern editor and the future.
I think the reasons for the "big facility" are declining (although certainly still needed for efficiency in some cases).
I think you exemplify why Thunderbolt is not an after thought.
While there may still be a few years to go, I think the facility as we know it is going to fade away.
I think the biggest roadblock are the problems in moving large files quickly and I think we are on the cusp of seeing professional solutions in that area. Even if those costs may seem relatively expensive they may compare well to the costs of maintaining a facility.



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Charlie Austin
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 4:21:00 pm

I miss hanging mag tracks. Nothing like 16 or more gigantic machines spinning reels of death! And what fun I'd have when a track would break. I still have some scars from those things. Apple needs to get it together and provide sync lock to mag machines in FCP X. It's just not professional without it!

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Clint Wardlow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 4:35:05 pm

Does anybody here still own a grease pencil?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 4:37:05 pm

[Clint Wardlow] "Does anybody here still own a grease pencil?"

How else do you expect me to mark up my CRT monitor?


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Bob Woodhead
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 4:42:50 pm

I do, but it's a wicked PIA to keep the point sharp enough to only hit this bit and not that byte.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 5:41:49 pm

Clint -

I have a black and a white grease pencil - I also still have an airbrush, bottles of india ink, crow quill pens, fountain pens, protractors, and slide rules. I'm read for when the grid goes down. Now all I need is some 16mm film for my Bell and Howell Filmo A with spring wind, and I'm good to go!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filmo

The camera Robert Capa is holding is the model I own...wish I had the actual camera he owned!

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Clint Wardlow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 6:57:27 pm

Now all you need is a Nagra --even though it won't synch with your Bell and Howell (you'll just have to fake that in post).


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Herb Sevush
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 5:30:01 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I think you exemplify the modern editor and the future."

His example exemplifies a future, but not the future.

It's nice to be able to cut on a laptop efficiently when you have to, but it's not nearly as good as cutting with large monitors and proper audio monitoring for anything other than web work. If your production is going to be seen on 42" or larger screens than cutting on a laptop with headphones distorts all your decision making. Full size keyboards and lots of desk real estate is better than any laptop on a crowded coffee table. And while facilities have been dying for the last 25 years, I can open my address book and still find a bunch of editing shops that have been open for all that time because they fill a need that a lone editor in starbucks can't quite handle.

Ask Mark Rudonis. Ask Walter Biscardi.

It's nice to have options, it's nice to be able to cut on a laptop, but the future doesn't come in one size.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 5:44:27 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Ask Mark Rudonis. Ask Walter Biscardi."

Walter seems to be just fine with an iMac, no?

You can use Thunderbolt to get to almost nay professional monitoring system available. It's really easy and some of them will fit in the palm of your hand, like the TTap.

Jeremy


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Charlie Austin
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 5:53:31 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Walter seems to be just fine with an iMac, no?

You can use Thunderbolt to get to almost nay professional monitoring system available. It's really easy and some of them will fit in the palm of your hand, like the TTap.

Jeremy"


Guy here at work is running FCP 7, the CS 6 suite, and Cinema 4D off a New-ish MBr. Monitoring from 2 27" apple displays and a projector. Hasn't had any issues yet...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Herb Sevush
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 5:53:06 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Walter seems to be just fine with an iMac, no? You can use Thunderbolt to get to almost nay professional monitoring system available. It's really easy and some of them will fit in the palm of your hand, like the TTap."

My argument was about Craig's prediction that an editor with a laptop on a coffee table is the future of editing. It was not Apple specific. An iMac is apparently fine for many editors, if not most.

To me it doesn't really matter how small the TTap is, I can't see myself lugging around 2 23" monitors and my 24" Flanders to a coffee shop. The idea of permanently editing on a laptop screen would cause me to rethink my career direction.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 5:59:02 pm

It's not the coffee shop per se, but there was just a thread on here earlier about MacMinis being used as a capture station when that used to be a MacPro.

When monitors are as thin as sheets of paper, you might be able to carry all of your monitors with you.

Have you looked at how thin a retina screen is?


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:08:58 pm

Jeremy,

Reductions in cost and size, and increases in power should enable more people to choose their ideal editing environments.

For me that would include quiet seclusion, screen size, audio monitors (and even acoustic treatments), screening conditions, tech resources, a quiet place outdoors near at hand, and possibly a pleasant mountain stream.

I'm sure the cafe is ideal for some, but facilities may well play a role for others ...



Franz.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:28:47 pm

I am not advocating editing in a coffee shop.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:36:45 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I am not advocating editing in a coffee shop."

How about a bordello?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:44:50 pm

According to Franz, it has to be the most pristine location ever, so if that's what it takes, a bordello it is.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:57:34 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "According to Franz, it has to be the most pristine location ever, ..."

Jeremy,

If you're offering to throw in cleaning services, I like it.

Franz.


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Bill Davis
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:50:59 pm

Seriously. What DOES define a proper editing environment. And beyond that, what DEFINES a good collaborative workspace in the modern era?

My wife and partner spent the morning on the phone with our San Diego clients. On her iPhone, she initiated the call, conferenced in 3 others in different cities. The work under discussion was distributed via DropBox, YouSendit and Vimeo.

This is NOT the editing. It's all the stuff that SURROUNDS the editng in a modern production facility. The meeting rooms, the screening rooms, the Mailroom, the kitchen, reception, - it's all gone. And you know what? That means the COSTS of maintaining those facilities are gone as well. Now there's certainly something to be said for the visual impression of a large, well equipped shop. But I'm not sure it's the most efficient form of business.

The funny thing is that as I listened to the beginning of her call, all the "water cooler" stuff was happening as well. In the beginning, her conference touched on how participants kids were doing, somebody's upcoming trip, etc.

I'm not arguing against a big suite of offices or a building. But those assets are wicked expensive. And if you can assemble a team to do excellent work without that overhead there's a legitimate question about why everyone works so hard just to give more money to a landlord, the power company and the oil companies just so everyone can drive to the central space to do what they can do at home today just as effectively.

The facility approach is superb for some stuff.

But it's also just ONE way to arrange a creative team.

Nothing more that that at the basic level.

Anyone else want to weigh in?

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 9:24:56 pm

[Bill Davis] "What DOES define a proper editing environment."

Quiet, neutral colors, no light reflections on the monitors, no sound reflections from the walls and the furniture. Enough space for you and your clients to not bang heads. Thick enough walls to play sound loud. AC'd and properly ventilated.


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Bill Davis
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 11:02:30 pm

[Michael Aranyshev] "Quiet, neutral colors, no light reflections on the monitors, "

I just HAD to comment on this.

When I was doing my haybarn to studio conversion more than 10 years ago, I planned to hang Owens Corning 503 "white nubby" panels in my monitor suite to suppress any audio reflections. I chose that approach because my friends at the local pro audio facility where I did my VO work assured me that it was the proper and professional way to make sure the room sounded properly dead. Since this was the plan, I decided to add a bit of color by painting the MDF soundproof walls that they would mount to a deep, lovely teal blue.

We got the build done (all non-parallel walls etc) and the day before we hung the 503 - the guy with the frequency analyzer came in to see if I had any standing wave or reflection problems. NONE. It was acoustically spot on. So I sent back the soundproofing panels and to this day I work in a TEAL room.

I worried for a while whether it would mess up my monitor colors, but my Cinema Display has NEVER had an issue. The dark teal that far away has no more effect than black.

Another good example of trying to mentally solve problems based on theory - rather than reacting to problems that ACTUALLY show up in the practical world.

FWIW.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 6:32:21 am

[Bill Davis] "Another good example of trying to mentally solve problems based on theory - rather than reacting to problems that ACTUALLY show up in the practical world."

So, fundamentally, you seem to agree with Michael's idea of a proper (ideal?) editing environment. You wanted an acoustically dead room and you got it (even w/out some of the suggested materials). You were concerned about the color of the walls but the distance from you to the wall is such that it is a non-issue. It sounds like the size of the space helped you achieve your goals.

Out of curiosity if you did have sound reflection problems and the teal was impacting your color perception would you have added the sound proofing panels and changed the color of the walls?




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Bill Davis
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 4:42:39 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "So, fundamentally, you seem to agree with Michael's idea of a proper (ideal?) editing environment. You wanted an acoustically dead room and you got it (even w/out some of the suggested materials). You were concerned about the color of the walls but the distance from you to the wall is such that it is a non-issue. It sounds like the size of the space helped you achieve your goals.

Out of curiosity if you did have sound reflection problems and the teal was impacting your color perception would you have added the sound proofing panels and changed the color of the walls?"


Absolutely.

When I did this project some 15 years ago - my goal was to take the unneeded haybarn on our new property and create as close to a "professional" editing environment as I could. And I think I was reasonably successful.

The problem is that over those 15 years, virtually EVERYTHING has changed about the work that I do and the way I need to do it.

Back in the beginning, most of my delivered programs were between 30 minutes and 90 minutes in length. Today, the average is about 4 minutes.

I worked on BetaSP, then DVCAM. Now I haven't touched a tape in 5 years.

My cameras I shot with typically cost between $15k to $40k now I primarily shoot DSLR (sub-$4000) unless the project calls for something else, then I rent.

So while I have a purpose built studio - I honestly don't think I truly need it to do 80% of the work I get paid to do. Not with 80% of my content is generated in the field vs 20% shot in studio, and 100% of the time I feel I'm more productive and work better running FCP-X on my laptop than I ever was running Legacy on my Mac Pro and Cinema Display.

Simple as that.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 24, 2013 at 12:49:12 am

with the greatest respect - not going for an FCP debate classic here -

I broadly take the point, and that the point should be aggressively argued, that editing is gone a long way from being in a guild enclosed white tower.

All cool. Also I would like to edit in a purpose converted barn - very much.

But you seem hell bent on conflating technological advances with some really over argued - I can do it on a lappie in a crowded coffee shop with sony headphones - style mission statement.

I get you like to propose positions, I do too, but the idea that any bustling space is preferable to a quiet, preferably sound dampened room, that allows focus to build, is just taking the mickey. Its fun to argue it, but, while we're not concert pianists, editing benefits greatly from a quiet environment, with speakers that are broadly trustworthy when you are stabbing control + and - on the DB. basically editing tends to be solitary on the whole quite a bit of the time. we all know this.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Lawrence
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 24, 2013 at 3:02:18 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "I am not advocating editing in a coffee shop."

Screw the coffee shop. I edit on PLANES!!!

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 24, 2013 at 3:10:44 pm

[David Lawrence] "Screw the coffee shop. I edit on PLANES!!!
"


Convenience and form factor are not allowed on this forum.

Unless, of course, you meant "planes" in the singular; as in, you have your own airplane converted to a perfectly lit and pristine bordello-like setting with cleaning services and eye stabber protectors. Then (and only then) will editing be allowed on planes around here.

Otherwise, you are bottom feeding scum-of-the-earth like the rest of us plebes.

Please post your edit plane pictures for verification by the Edit Suite Authoritiarians (ESA). If you obtain ESA verification, your Banner of Edit Suite Non-convenience Memorial Plaque will arrive by UPS Ground in 7-10 business days. The ESA requires at least 4 85" plasma screens in your non-convenient suite in order for you to be considered for Bannerism.

Good luck.


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Steve Connor
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 24, 2013 at 4:11:22 pm

Jeremy, had I been editing in a coffee shop whilst reading that last post, my laptop would have been covered in the coffee I spat out when reading it!

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Bob Woodhead
ACE Editors Awards 2013 open for submissions
on Feb 25, 2013 at 3:20:43 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Please post your edit plane pictures for verification by the Edit Suite Authoritiarians (ESA)."


The American Coffeeshop Editors Guild is accepting nominations for the 2013 ACE Awards. Pending approval by the ESA of your venue, your coffeeshop-edited video can be entered in the following categories:

- Best Edited Turnaround: for those films that were supposed to be a comedy, but due to the cute barrista at the counter, resolved into a "Memento-esque" reverse unfolding dramatic storyline (likely caused by misplaced keystrokes). A photo of the barrista is optional, but enhances your odds of winning.

- Best Edited Picture of Mary Magdalene created by Coffeecup Rings on a Script

- Best Edited Half Hour Series that Should Have Been an Hour But The 2nd Drive had a Double Latte spill on it

- Best Edited Story to the IRS How Your 72 Hour Stay at a Starbucks is Indeed Tax Deductible

Good Luck!


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Chris Harlan
Re: ACE Editors Awards 2013 open for submissions
on Feb 25, 2013 at 4:17:51 am

[Bob Woodhead] "- Best Edited Story to the IRS How Your 72 Hour Stay at a Starbucks is Indeed Tax Deductible
"


LOL


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Bill Davis
Re: ACE Editors Awards 2013 open for submissions
on Feb 25, 2013 at 7:10:06 am

Sensing a prime business opportunity, may I present...

The Lap-Tronic Coffeeshop Personal Professional Audio Monitoring System.

Mix in the hippest environs yet monitor like an audio pro.



Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Bob Woodhead
Re: ACE Editors Awards 2013 open for submissions
on Feb 25, 2013 at 12:46:53 pm

[Bill Davis] "The Lap-Tronic Coffeeshop Personal Professional Audio Monitoring System."

You forgot to include the acronym, Bill. The ESA likes Coffeeshop Editorial Accessories to have Important Multisyllabic Acronyms (IMA's). How about LACPAMS?


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Bill Davis
Re: ACE Editors Awards 2013 open for submissions
on Feb 25, 2013 at 4:53:37 pm

[Bob Woodhead] "[Bill Davis] "The Lap-Tronic Coffeeshop Personal Professional Audio Monitoring System."

You forgot to include the acronym, Bill. The ESA likes Coffeeshop Editorial Accessories to have Important Multisyllabic Acronyms (IMA's). How about LACPAMS?"


Excellent suggestion. The "next gen" device (which will involve 5.1 complete with a rigid neck brace and "pants-connected sub woofer") will be called the Lap-Tronic Audio Coffeeshop Kustom Sensory Environment for Audio that's Refreshingly Superior - or LACKS EARS.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 6:09:23 pm

[Herb Sevush] "t's nice to be able to cut on a laptop efficiently when you have to, but it's not nearly as good as cutting with large monitors and proper audio monitoring for anything other than web work."

I agree. It's easy enough to setup a professional system at home. I'd also agree what's missing is a new MacPro. Even a colorist working on Resolve at home still needs the GPU power. Even those working in a home office still have clients that come in and sit over our shoulders.

It also means that if I need to bring things on location I can pack up key elements and hook it all up to a laptop via Thunderbolt. Key is that fewer people are "land locked" to a facility.

[Herb Sevush] "I can open my address book and still find a bunch of editing shops that have been open for all that time because they fill a need that a lone editor in starbucks can't quite handle."

Yes, that's why I said a few years to go and fading. I do think there's going to be a bit more radical shrinkage in facilities over the next 3 to 5 years.

BTW I have my own serious Apple peeve that doesn't seem to come up in this forum at all. One might infer the future from Apple's approach that mobility is going to be of major importance to the professional and working remotely even if you're using workstation power.

From the company that feels the optical disk is dead they sure aren't providing an alternative. Compressor's encoding lacks a lot as a professional encoder whether it's Apple's H.264 or limited feature set needed for file delivery. Apple has struggled through .mac .me and now .iCloud and these services are weak even as consumer tools let alone the professional who might need to share files or documents. Even FCP7 had a modest attempt with it's iChatAV type thing. We can debate FCPX and where Apple is going with the MacPro but there's virtually nothing to discuss about Apple supporting the mobile or remote professional.

Apple says tape is dead, optical is dead yet Apple is weak in providing content delivery starting right from their H.264 codec implementation. They can't even do a High Profile CABAC H.264 encode and offer no way to deliver it or otherwise screen to a remote client. This is a major hole in their ecosystem.

Let's look at this another way.
Avid comes with Sorenson Squeeze which uses MainConcept and even x264 encoding and Sorenson has a bunch of expanding cloud based services.
Adobe comes with Media Encoder which uses MainConcept. They've got Adobe Anywhere in the works.
Apple has Compressor with an inefficient H.264 encoder, very limited feature set, no cloud based service.



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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:04:39 pm

[Craig Seeman] ".iCloud and these services are weak even as consumer tools let alone the professional who might need to share files or documents."

Craig,

I think you're talking about niche needs. iCloud will likely be "good enough" for most people, most of the time ...

Franz.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:21:32 pm

Unless I'm misunderstanding you I don' consider sharing files niche at all.
From "consumer" to "professional" I can't avoid it.
Keep in mind that often one is not just sharing with work collaborators but with clients who aren't that tech savvy. Even dealing with DropBox is a problem for non tech folks. I'm finding issues even putting files on a client's iPod Touch an issue when they try to move them to another device.
I don't think this is niche at all.



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Bob Woodhead
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:12:35 pm

Yeah, editing on a coffeeshop table is absolutely NOT a replacement for a professional monitoring environment! And if I could insist to only work from 9-noon on Tuesdays & Wednesdays, I would, but unfortunately, some jobs require otherwise. The aha! moment was that in what used to be a compromise in terms of efficiency was no longer there. Yes, I fully expect clients to continue to request that in some circumstances. And I will be glad to charge them accordingly. (By that, I do not mean less!)


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 5:32:12 pm

Craig -

On the matter of moving large files around, I just stumbled across SoShare in an email update from NoFilmSchool. It utilizes Torrent technology to enable rapid transfer of huge files (up to a Terrabyte, free).

I just did my first test this morning, delivering a file to a client. It was a 179MB file, which had taken about 3-4 hours in and out on my Dropbox account (I'm in the boonies, with a medium speed DSL connection). I put the file into SoShare, and it synced in about 1 hour - I called the client to see how the download would go - he had the file in under a minute!

I'm currently sending off my next render (about 600MB), and it's a third of the way there after an hour. It will probably take my client about 2 minutes to download. If this works out (SoShare is in Beta, but working well) I'm going to be dropping Dropbox - I pay 100 bucks a year for 100GB). It allows you send files privately, publicly, and will hold the file for 30 days, or until you cancel it.

I'd like to hear how others experience works out with this, since it's a work in progress, but it worked like a charm for me:

http://www.soshareit.com

I have no monetary interest in this, other than saving my skin when I'm under deadline...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 6:13:07 pm

Looks impressive.
"Truly free"
I've got to go through the EULA and find were they come to collect your soul.
There's got to be a back end business model in there somewhere.

... or maybe they're waiting for Apple to buy them with what would be pocket change for them.



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Gary Huff
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 6:30:31 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "
I'd like to hear how others experience works out with this, since it's a work in progress, but it worked like a charm for me:

http://www.soshareit.com"



Thanks for the heads up on this, Joseph. Like you, I've been kind of frustrated with Dropbox, and the requests for raw footage upload over the 'Net have grown more and more in the last few months. I will take a look into this.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 6:54:10 pm

Thanks Gary...please let me know what your results are. I'm two thirds of the way through a 597MB upload to a client, and I'm at 2 hours and 15 minutes - very fast for my connection. And as I said above, the subsequent download on the client end is almost immediate. Maybe some people who are interested in trying this out can create a posting area, either on this forum, or on another, since it's not exactly FCPX-centric (but of course, it is, since most of us have to deliver the goods electronically these days). Any suggestions? Thanks...

I really hope this catches on - it's a brilliant idea to use bit-torrent technology to solve the bandwidth delivery riddle.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Santiago Martí
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:21:05 pm

In January 2010 I bought my first Red One. I also bought a dell precision workstation with a core 2 quad and a nvidia quadro card inside with 16 gigs of ram.
I traveled all around central and south america shooting commercials with my Red One and a Phantom.
All editorial work was done natively on the adobe suite and scratch. Phantom files were transoded to uncompressed on location.
E-sata was used and it worked flawlessly.
This was 2010 and you are saying it is the future?
I still prefer a decent workstation with a quadro card and a dream color, but for my shooting needs I got an Ibuypower with a desktop processor, a sandy bridge hexacore at 3.30 with an nvidia gtx680m. It is a beast, it's heavy, a lot, and it has a terrible display, but it runs 5K epic at half res in PPro. It has e-sata, USB 3.0, fw800, express card, etc. It is everything but light and portable, but it is a beast!

http://Www.robotrojo.com.ar
Santiago@robotrojo.com.ar
Red One MX, Red Epic X, Red Pro Primes


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Bill Davis
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 8:31:58 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "I really hope this catches on - it's a brilliant idea to use bit-torrent technology to solve the bandwidth delivery riddle."

Well, maybe.

Torrents imply that the central service breaks up your content and "seeds" it to a wide variety of anonymous hosts. And then those hosts agree to be accessible to torrent requestors to download and assemble the file.

The main issue is that you usually have to agree to be both a user AND a seeder - and that means that there will be a system that can reach in and access content from your local hard drive at will.

If everyone is honorable, that's hunky dory. But the minute some black hat decides that there's a central file somewhere with the ID info on a huge group of computers set to allow remote I/O - and can assemble massive computing power at no cost - then all hell has the potential to break loose.

Hopefully, these services have REALLY GOOD IT folks behind them and have a solid strategy to deal with very high level security stuff in advance.

If so it might turn out to be a good and valuable process.

If not..... yikes.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 8:44:05 pm

[Bill Davis] "The main issue is that you usually have to agree to be both a user AND a seeder - and that means that there will be a system that can reach in and access content from your local hard drive at will.

If everyone is honorable, that's hunky dory. But the minute some black hat decides that there's a central file somewhere with the ID info on a huge group of computers set to allow remote I/O - and can assemble massive computing power at no cost - then all hell has the potential to break loose."


Totally agree. We need to use either the studios proprietary portals, or a dedicated service. FWIW, we use interdubs, who are fantastic and reasonably priced. There's also wiredrive, beam, review manager, and some others. "The Cloud" ain't gonna cut it at this point...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Kent Beeson
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 7:31:03 pm

Was excited to hear about soshare - signed up then here's what I get on screen

"Sorry, SoShare is currently not supported on your platform. You can preview content and manage bundles, but you're not able to send or download files."

What, no mac support - 10.6.8?

Frustrating


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 8:10:51 pm

Kent -

You may want to double check that - maybe try again - since it is beta. Here's the original link that led me to it:

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/02/send-files-1-terabyte-free-soshare/

And I would swear that somewhere while I was googling it, someone said they were using it succesfully on a Mac system. I'll dig further and see what I can dig up. I would suggest you do the input report and give them your information. From what I understand, the guys doing this are designers, photographers, and others who had the same need as we do - sending huge files. As a matter of fact, the NoFilmSchool link above has the Mac reference. The article writer said he had used in on his Mac - check the responses at the bottom of the page, you'll find it.

And as an update to Gary - that 597MB file I sent out a couple of posts up just arrived at the clients - it took three hours and fifteen minutes to upload - and four minutes to download! Client is thrilled, and once again my Dropbox account is getting dusty. Wow...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Kent Beeson
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 8:17:47 pm

Thanks for update - actually I now get a message that explains - it's only good for 10.7 + on mac - I'm 10.6.8


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 9:48:19 pm

In 2007 myself and another editor were the post end of a remote production for SpikeTV covering the VGA's and a UFC fight in Las Vegas. As the events were concluding we started a 24hr editing marathon in our hotel rooms to get a variety of red carpet, event recap and behind the scenes type packages up onto Spike's website as soon as possible. Even though I thought it was cool that with a minium of gear carried in a backpack (17" MBP, FW800 drive, mouse, HDV deck & headphones) we could setup shop anywhere I never viewed it as a replacement for my cutting room back at the office anymore than I would view the hotel room as a replacement for a house or apartment.

Some gigs, like that one, prioritize mobility and timeliness over absolute quality so two guys with laptops on location trumps losing hours sending footage back to LA for editing. If that event was in LA then it would've detrimental to edit with laptops in a hotel room because the offices (which have better, faster gear) are located in LA.

To me the question is not "can I do it this way" but "should I do it this way". For example, could I run a track meet in high tops or flip flops? Sure, but why would I choose to if I had running shoes (or better yet track spikes)? Would Usain Bolt in high tops beat Joe Average in track spikes in a foot race ? Sure. But when Usain Bolt goes to work it's not against Joe Average. Are track shoes inherently better than high tops? No, but I wouldn't recommend playing hoops in spikes or running hurdles in high tops. Horses for courses as they say.




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Michael Gissing
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 1:13:56 am

The future? Hardly. The first time I saw FCP being used was a DV edit on a laptop in a coffee shop. It was FCP2 from memory and it was last century.

The ability to edit on portable gear has only improved since then but I really can't take all this Brave New World stuff seriously. In the future we will continue to do what he have done in the past. All that changes is power and price based on Moore's Law.

Where it is desirable to work has not changed for me. For the past ten years I have worked from home in nice rooms designed for minimum distraction and maximum comfort. Headphones in a coffee shop is something to avoid where possible and all that is being reported here is that the gear is as cheap and powerful as we should expect.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 1:57:04 am

this is getting blown way out of proportion


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Charlie Austin
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 2:00:44 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "this is getting blown way out of proportion
"


Ya think? :-D

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 3:20:56 am

Doesn't everything in this section get blown way out of proportion? That's the fun of it, no? ;)




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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 3:44:06 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Doesn't everything in this section get blown way out of proportion? That's the fun of it, no? ;)"

It went from A-Ha moment while drinking coffee in a situation that was obviously beyond Bob's control, to you must edit in a pristine bordello with a cleaning service while trying to avoid getting your eyes plucked out to be a professional.

At least the stories are interesting if you can read between the lines.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 3:49:51 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "It went from A-Ha moment while drinking coffee in a situation that was obviously beyond Bob's control, to you must edit in a pristine bordello with a cleaning service while trying to avoid getting your eyes plucked out to be a professional."

No, it didn't go there. Or rather, if it went there, I missed it. HOWEVER, I would be ver interested in seeing it go there, so if you can steer it that way, I would be most appreciative.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 7:57:07 pm

[Chris Harlan] "[Jeremy Garchow] "It went from A-Ha moment while drinking coffee in a situation that was obviously beyond Bob's control, to you must edit in a pristine bordello with a cleaning service while trying to avoid getting your eyes plucked out to be a professional."

No, it didn't go there. Or rather, if it went there, I missed it. HOWEVER, I would be ver interested in seeing it go there, so if you can steer it that way, I would be most appreciative.
"


Yes, Chris. IT DID GO THERE. If you'd bothered to read the whole thread you wouldn't be all up on the J-Man and in his face about "pristine bordellos."


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Bill Davis
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 8:24:57 pm

[Chris Harlan] "in his face about "pristine bordellos.""


Any chance this will replace jumbo shrimp as the finest modern oxymoron?

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Bob Woodhead
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 4:05:03 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] It went from A-Ha moment while drinking coffee in a situation that was obviously beyond Bob's control, to you must edit in a pristine bordello with a cleaning service while trying to avoid getting your eyes plucked out to be a professional."

Lol... thanks Jeremy.

Yes, I don't know how people interpreted my post as saying it was BETTER. Of course it's not better (or even as good)! Sheesh.

I said it was "as efficient" - that I felt I could not have completed completed the edit significantly faster sitting in my edit suite. Until now, my editing on a laptop always incurred some undesirable overhead in terms of productivity; render speed, edit speed, access to files, etc. I felt none of those limitations in the coffeeshop this time. And it wasn't because of "lightweight" content - this was all ProRes 1080. Had I been in the suite, yes, I'd have had assets to ensure that the product was as perfect as possible, but if I had been in the suite, the product would not have been delivered!


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Chris Harlan
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 3:47:11 am

Running metaphors! Got the marathon on your mind? Only three weeks. I was going to run it this year, but I'm not quite ready. I think I'll do Santa Clarita in the Fall, though.


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tony west
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 10:17:31 pm

This sounds great Joe, but how do they make money?

Do they sell your email and your clients e-mail?


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 10:42:41 pm

Hi Tony -

At this point, the service is in Beta, so the developers are basically getting the model together, and getting people on board to try it. From what I understand, the plan is to get it paying at some point. I for one would gladly pay for this service - it's cutting my Dropbox time in half, if not two thirds, and I'm paying 100 bucks a year for my slow Dropbox account! I honestly don't know anything about their inside workings, and am going on what was in the No Film School article in their email update, which was where I heard about it. The speed is nothing short of amazing!

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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tony west
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 11:30:30 pm

Thanks Joe, the speed IS amazing.

I wouldn't mind paying either depending on the cost.

I find myself driving a 64g thumb drive over to the clients (in town) and dropping it off and coming back to get it sometimes.

Not ideal.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 22, 2013 at 11:50:09 pm

Tony -

You're lucky your clients are in the same town - I live in rural New Hampshire, and my clients are all over the country (and world). I either have to use my Dropbox account, or if the delivery and deadline are tight, I send stuff out on a portable hard drive overnight! I had to do a project for an organization in the Central African Republic a couple of years ago, and I found out the city (Bangui) I was sending it to didn't have anything faster than a dial-up modem, plus the power would go out regularly on any given day. Yikes! I ended up sending the final project on a Lacie Rugged drive via Fedex, and it took over a week to get there. I was sweating...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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tony west
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 12:04:11 am

Wow, I would have been sweating on that one also.

I look forward to watching their progress. I may have to send to NY in a couple of months.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 12:17:23 am

You wouldn't believe the hoops the project had to go through - I had to send it in both NTSC and PAL. I was doing animated segments for the project. The producer spoke French, the editor spoke Sango (the local language of the CAR), and the whole project had to be translated to Sango for the final viewing audience. Looking back on it, it was pretty cool. At the time, not so cool...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Rafael Amador
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 2:39:47 am

People that advocates for editing on a laptop probably haven't edited long enough on laptop to understand and suffer the miseries of editing on a laptop.
The kind of "edit-on-a-coffe-shop" that Bob explains on the opening post, is something that you can do now and them. But if you try to do that on a daily base, after a few months you will be visiting your ophthalmologist.
As Andrew says, is not the same "what you can do" and "what you should do".
rafael


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Charlie Austin
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 2:54:45 am

[Rafael Amador] "The kind of "edit-on-a-coffe-shop" that Bob explains on the opening post, is something that you can do now and them. But if you try to do that on a daily base, after a few months you will be visiting your ophthalmologist."

Here is a pic of an early beta of, what I think, is the brave new future of editing. Avid's new touch based iOS version of MC. This is gonna be great! I hope I'm not breaking my NDA by posting this...



-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 3:05:56 am

i am sitting here right now, at home, on a very small desk with headphones on, editing three spots that end up on the TV in the States and Europe.

Am I going to finish it here? No.

But I am editing, and it's an older laptop.

I am having no issues creatively.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 3:14:49 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "i am sitting here right now, at home, on a very small desk with headphones on, editing three spots that end up on the TV in the States and Europe.

Am I going to finish it here? No.

But I am editing, and it's an older laptop.

I am having no issues creatively.
"


Me three. And I dig it.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 5:31:13 pm

Back to the SoShare saga for a moment - I won't clutter this forum with any more "off topic" stuff from this post on...

I just discovered that SoShare has a Facebook page, the perfect place to put our input on the Beta, and request features and improvements. They are looking for input, so I posted my thoughts and experiences so far. I know a client of mine who's a Mac user was disappointed that there's an OS limitation on getting SoShare working. There's a place to put those comments:

http://www.facebook.com/SoShareIt

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Brave new world. Again.
on Feb 23, 2013 at 7:39:56 am

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Looking back on it, it was pretty cool. At the time, not so cool..."

You know what they say, Joe. Adventures suck while you are having them!




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