FORUMS: list search recent posts

The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Mark Snow
The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 3, 2013 at 9:42:18 am

Hey there,

Where are we with the discussion, if FCPX can be used for complex, big and multiple-user Editing-Workflows?

1. Where is the interface, has it gotten better, customizable?

2. How is Motion interacting with FCPX? (talking about Bezier-Curve-Timewarps etc.)

Should one expect it to be around in 10 Years among the big studios?

Links and opinions are highly appreciated!
Disclosure: I am (was) an expert FCP7-editor, now I am a happy Avid-editor, just curious about the old capricious friend FCP...)


Return to posts index

Nikolas Bäurle
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 3, 2013 at 7:55:37 pm

Yes, FCPX is very usable for Pro's. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever not to consider it pro, unless you have certain specific workflows you might need.
Rendering speeds are awesome, the organization of footage is a lot better than in FCP7, once you get used to the magnetic timeline it's very fast to work with, exporting separate Audio Tracks for TV works very well with roles.

Sofar I've mostly used it for short form, currently I'm finishing a 60 min Low Budget Experimental using XDCAM and my 8 year old 500 GB Raid FW800 Drive, connected to my 2011 MacBook Pro. Never had a problem, spinning beach balls once in a while.

I'm starting to edit a 90 min Dokumentary this Month, probably using eSATA, lets see how that goes...

I work in Berlin, Germany. The Market here really hates change, there are still very few companies using it - I'm still flabbergasted to find companies here that still haven't figured out that FCP Legacy is as professional as Avid.

But I just got a FCPXjob offer for a regular gig starting next month, internet stuff.

The Editor Knut Hake has been using FCPx for the German TV series Danny Lowinski and is currently editing his 3rd narrative feature on it.

I am seeing quite a few prosumer editors adopting it, especially some actor friends of mine editing their own demotapes, a few Kameramen, a Musician friend of mine, and funny enough the Painter who's Experimental I'm finishing


You should check out Larry Jordan's page http://www.larryjordan.biz/

and very good training by http://www.rippletraining.com

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 5, 2013 at 3:01:04 am

[Mark Snow] "Should one expect it to be around in 10 Years among the big studios?"

Who's to know? It isn't here now, and it isn't built with our needs in mind...at this time. Who knows how they might update and improve it. But, with the current path it is on, the current way that it works...it isn't a viable option for big studio (feature film) or broadcast TV series work.

I don't doubt that someone will do a special with it. I did that with FCP 4.5 back when FCP was originally seen by HOllywood as "not viable." So, only the future will tell.

Currently...no. Next year?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 5, 2013 at 12:29:08 pm

FCP X is perfectly capable of doing pro work today in its current form. Please browse the threads in these two FCP X forums and you will already find numerous discussions of how it is being used in professional, demanding environments.

The technology curve is accelerating, so 10 years from now is a very long time. By the yardstick of mainstream pros (Hollywood film and TV editors), FCP "legacy" hasn't been successful either. There are tons of indies and documentaries and some TV cut on FCP 1-7, but as far as studio work, the number of high visibility work done with FCP has been a drop in the bucket compared with Avid.

Avid is hardly gone, Adobe is making a big push and when EditShare finally ports Lightworks to Mac, the picture will shift again. Today, it gets down to a personal decision. Can you do the work? Yes! Will you encounter it within the majority of facilities within the coming years? Unknown.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 5, 2013 at 1:50:31 pm

[Oliver Peters] "By the yardstick of mainstream pros (Hollywood film and TV editors), FCP "legacy" hasn't been successful either. There are tons of indies and documentaries and some TV cut on FCP 1-7, but as far as studio work, the number of high visibility work done with FCP has been a drop in the bucket compared with Avid."

Correct and important to bear in mind when measuring the "success"of FCPX

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 5, 2013 at 6:25:11 pm

[Steve Connor] " Correct and important to bear in mind when measuring the "success"of FCPX"

Cept for the "tons of indies and documentaries and some TV" which by every measure, is a success, and should reflect on the current "success" of FCX


Return to posts index


Steve Connor
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 5, 2013 at 6:30:15 pm

[Jamie Franklin] "Cept for the "tons of indies and documentaries and some TV" which by every measure, is a success, and should reflect on the current "success" of FCX"

I absolutely agree, but the fact major broadcast facilities, broadcasters as well as big budget features aren't using FCPX at the moment is often touted as a 'failure" of FCPX when as Oliver said FCP Legacy was not the dominant player in these areas anyway.

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 5, 2013 at 9:05:54 pm

[Steve Connor] "as Oliver said FCP Legacy was not the dominant player in these areas anyway."

It wasn't dominant, but it was losing ground rather quickly. FCP Legacy was making huge inroads in this town. And when FCX was released, the Avid employees let out a collective sigh of relief... Their future is safe. Apple is no longer a threat to Avid...they turned down a different path.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 5, 2013 at 11:28:13 pm

[Shane Ross] "[Steve Connor] "as Oliver said FCP Legacy was not the dominant player in these areas anyway."

It wasn't dominant, but it was losing ground rather quickly. FCP Legacy was making huge inroads in this town. And when FCX was released, the Avid employees let out a collective sigh of relief... Their future is safe. Apple is no longer a threat to Avid...they turned down a different path.
"


Concur. IMHO, if FCP had been allowed to continue down the path it was headed, it would have eventually become the dominant player in these areas. The uptake on it, here in LA, from 2006/7 until its death was huge.


Return to posts index


Jamie Franklin
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 7, 2013 at 3:38:34 am

[Steve Connor] "but the fact major broadcast facilities, broadcasters as well as big budget features aren't using FCPX at the moment is often touted as a 'failure""

I have to agree with those saying it. Maybe not from where they view things. While I was quite vocal during the release on the consequences to my own experience moving forward with the mag timeline of creative lost causes, seeing the consequences in the professional environment, and as Shane pointed out, the collective relief by Avid users, really was a big deal when many were saying it wouldn't be. My point of view, all that upward momentum was squandered. But I haven't moved on myself. I still enjoy using Legacy for what it's worth. And that I wouldn't have predicted 2 years ago...leaving a sour taste by my initial reaction.


Return to posts index

Mark Snow
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 7, 2013 at 9:12:30 am

But what about the editing and trimming in FCPX? When a simple task takes one or two steps more than in another system, I consider it a major problem, as you do these things 100's of times -a-day...

Example: Timewarp with bezier-curves... I can't imagine that you would be as fast opening up Motion an tweaking as it was done in Legacy and Avid, or is it?

Then the timeline: I hate thos rounded Edges of the clips! How are you supposed to know on what frame exactly this dude rests with rounded edges?

Lastly: the skimming thing is nice, but it tends to slow down your Cursor and drives you nuts with sound and picture. Just my opinion.

All this togheter, I still prefer working on the fast and tipsy FCP7 over X and I am so far not persuaded by the FCPX-Believers, for X to perform on complex and big Productions.

Is there anyone out there who really enjoys the Edit/Trimming in X who knows well the alteratives Avid and Legacy?


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 7, 2013 at 9:21:14 am

As many of us "FCPX Believers" have already mentioned, I find Editing in FCPX is much faster than Legacy, but again that's just my opinion.

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 7, 2013 at 12:26:51 pm

And the more I edit with X, the less I like the way it edits. Skimming is cool, but I'm starting to find it counter-productive with a client in the room. It completely confuses them. Rearranging clips on the magnetic timeline is great when you have a simple timeline and just need to sort the best order. Then it gets in the way later.

There are still many bugs and missing items. Like unreliable playback through broadcast output or the way connected clips work or the way adding/removing transitions affects sync down the timeline. Corrupt renders with plug-ins. Lack of good mixing tools. All of these issues are manageable with experience, but they don't make good arguments for wholesale adoption.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

David Powell
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 8, 2013 at 1:29:03 am

I know both Avid and Legacy well, have been using FCPX for about 5 months now. The trimming sucks. But to be fair, the trimming sucked in legacy compared to Avid and the patching was awful as well. I think FCP X was made for TV/Film first. It was made for weddings, parties, actor reels first, with the ability to expand into bigger productions for those who are loyal to apple and want to make it work. The price range and usability is great for those who needed more than imovie but less of a learning curve than FCP 7.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 8, 2013 at 2:44:29 am

Yeah, it's great for weddings and Actors reels, parties too. I've used it on a feature, only because I'm an Apple fanboy though and of course it was cheap. I think most Professionals on here who use it would agree!

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


Return to posts index


Gary Huff
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 8, 2013 at 3:17:52 am

[Steve Connor] " I've used it on a feature, only because I'm an Apple fanboy though and of course it was cheap"

Walter Murch totally comes across as an Apple fanboy to me in Behind the Seen, basically willing to test a $83 million dollar movie on an early version of Final Cut with the powers that be at Apple basically being a complete dick to him the entire time. In fact, he came very close to not pulling it off, and only via a third party that took a chance that Apple would completely disown them was what allowed him to make it happen.

Premiere CS6 is kicking ass for me. I have a music video coming out in a few days I did in X that worked out fine, but I ran into the third-party plugin bug which made me compromise what I wanted to do with the piece. The color board is not intuitive to anyone who is familiar with the standard color wheel representation, and the damn magnetic timeline doesn't help with precision-type editing.

My current project involves a hell of a lot of animated elements (provided for me in .PSDs) and that would be virtually impossible to do in FCPX without resorting to Motion, but then there's nothing analogous to Dynamic Link yet, so I would have to render out an intermediate every single time there's a change (and there have been plenty of those).

Instead, editing this project on Premiere CS6 on a Windows workstation, I have each of my animated elements in an After Effects composition that's dynamically linked to the timeline. Every change is automagically updated without having to do anything. I have the edits exactly where I need them to be for the flow of the piece without having to mess around with the crazy way the timeline works in X. On top of that, I have Curves built in without having to resort to a paid third-party plugin!

Finally, I had a unique situation that I will share. This project was shot on a C100. The first time was AVCHD + ProRes 422 HQ via the Ninja-2. I edited the original footage from the ProRes clips. Well, the client decided to reshoot to condense some material and present it in a slightly different way. ProRes is overkill for this project, so to save space, I simply relinked all the media from the Ninja-2 ProRes HQ files to the AVCHD from the internal recording. It worked perfectly. FCPX, on the other hand, can't even accept clips if they are updated with audio tracks added! Granted a very unique scenario, but just another way in which working in Premiere makes me happy.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 8, 2013 at 6:17:30 pm

[Gary Huff] "The color board is not intuitive to anyone who is familiar with the standard color wheel representation"

That's true, it does take some getting used to, but when you do it functions just as well.

[Gary Huff] "and the damn magnetic timeline doesn't help with precision-type editing."

Once you're used to it, it isn't a problem, I cut music pieces and promos all the time now. It was a struggle at first though.

[Gary Huff] "Instead, editing this project on Premiere CS6 on a Windows workstation, I have each of my animated elements in an After Effects composition that's dynamically linked to the timeline. Every change is automagically updated without having to do anything. I have the edits exactly where I need them to be for the flow of the piece without having to mess around with the crazy way the timeline works in X. On top of that, I have Curves built in without having to resort to a paid third-party plugin!"

I'm pretty sure I would have done this in PPro as well.

[Gary Huff] "Granted a very unique scenario, but just another way in which working in Premiere makes me happy.
"


Of course, PPro is a mature, stable and very well featured NLE and an excellent choice for people who don't want to ride the FCPX train!

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


Return to posts index

David Powell
Re: The (still) temporary Verdict: FinalCutProX usable for Pro's?
on Feb 8, 2013 at 4:13:06 am

I think its safe to say at this point in history that any NLE can cut a feature, including imovie. Had FCPX been made by Sony, Edius etc...I doubt many people on here or elsewhere would be bothering with it. The Apple name and FCP title is what brought people to the software. Thats not to say it isn't good, but other NLE's like CS5 were not even considered until Legacy was axed.

My point is that I think X is stronger than others for event scenario cutting and weaker for longform multi-seat workflow. As much as I love Avid, there is way to much overkill for cutting events vs FCPX mainly because you can't create multi-clips with filler in the middle.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]