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FCP X crashes on large jobs

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Oliver Peters
FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 2, 2013 at 1:40:46 am

I'm wondering... Has anyone noticed any correlation between large projects and the tendency of FCP X to crash? The app has generally been stable for me, but I'm on a job where X seems to crash about 1 or 2 times a day. Fortunately nothing lost. Generally this is at times when I'm skimming media in the event browser (list view with filmstrip) or making an event modification, like renaming a compound clip. This is about 800GB+ of all ProResHQ files. 800+ master clips. The last time I ran into similar crashing on this same machine has been other jobs with similar amounts of media and all ProResHQ or ProRes4444. The machine is a 12-core MP, 32GB RAM, AT5870 card and internal RAID for media.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 2, 2013 at 2:00:12 am

I used it on a project with about 750GB of Prores material, spread over 2500 clips in 3 Events. Not long form though, a half hour of edited material.

It could Be slow at times but I was editing on a 8GB RAM 13" MBP from a 5400rpm FireWire800 drive.
Can't Really remember it being so unstable, although the app had its moments.

I'm working now at work on a retina MBP and Pegasus R6 raids. Getting great performance.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 2, 2013 at 2:04:19 am

[Mathieu Ghekiere] "I used it on a project with about 750GB of Prores material, spread over 2500 clips in 3 Events. Not long form though, a half hour of edited material. "

I'm not sure why on this one. I'm not even editing yet. Just organizing with keyword collections and selects assemblies, which I'm doing as compound clips in the event. However, I had crashes without any sequences at all. Typically 1 crash each day, a couple today. Maybe it will settle down from now on.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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T. Payton
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 2, 2013 at 4:44:29 am

Oliver,

I haven't specifically had problems with large projects but I typically see the following causing crashing:

Corrupted Media
FCP X is rather sensitive to bad clips. Video, stills (PDFs especially), a few random PSDs, MP3s and fonts. FCP X hits one of those and crashing happens. Isolating the problem is tricky, but is a good step to take.

Corrupted Prefs
I trash my prefs when crashing begins because crashing seems to lead to more crashing.

Third-Party Plugins & Tools
I've also had Third-Party plugins and A/V output (BlackMagic, AJA, Matrox) cause trouble. Sometimes in the Crash report the first few lines indicate what the app was doing when it crashed and I have seen third party tools specifically mentioned in the crash report.

Render Files (not just the timeline ones)
Another area that seems to cause trouble are the render files FCP X creates. Not just for a timeline, but an event will have caches for waveforms and thumbnails. You might try trashing "Peaks Data" and "Thumbnail Media" for the event in the "Render Files" folder. Or just trash the whole "Render Files" folder for the event, then restart and see if that helps.

Hope this helps.

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Patrice Freymond
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 2, 2013 at 8:24:29 am

Pre 10.0.6 I did have similar crashes in similar circumstances.

It seems that there was a "speed limit" to the skimming I could do in the browser. That was the cause of most crashes and those crashes were without consequences.

Event was roughly 800 GB of mixed media and I had, by the end, about 15 versions of the project, a half hour doc. with little effects or retimings.

I haven't had a project that big since so i can't compare with 10.0.7


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 2, 2013 at 1:21:15 pm

Another vote for teaching peaks data and event render files.

It will take a while to rebuild though.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 2, 2013 at 3:50:23 pm

"Teaching" should have been trashing.

I blame society.


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Chris Harlan
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 2, 2013 at 9:11:30 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] ""Teaching" should have been trashing.

I blame society.
"


So, this is another trashable moment?


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Jim Giberti
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 2, 2013 at 9:36:55 pm

Yes to graphic files and PSDs.
FCPX still seems to have real problems with basic graphics (imported).
I'm just finishing a short film and it wasn't till the end when bringing in a few PSDs and Stills that it had issues.

One other issue that crashed my system twice during this project was I simply clicked the button at the bottom of the timeline to resize the clips in it.


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Bret Williams
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 3, 2013 at 7:44:43 pm

Do your Psds have smart vectors? I was using some 4k sized smart vector Psds and when I hit render I could se the free memory go from 10 gigs to 4 Megs almost instantly. The system would stall out and not crash so much as just be completely frozen.


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Paul Jay
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 2, 2013 at 6:52:13 pm

Would be interesting to see if these type of projects also crash on AVX foundation supported iMacs with Ivy and Sandy bridge chips.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 2, 2013 at 8:03:20 pm

[Paul Jay] "AVX foundation supported iMacs"

Do you mean AV Foundation? AVX is Avid's plug-in architecture. AV Foundation is the Apple media architecture that replaces QuickTime. It's really an OS function and has nothing to do with the processor AFAIK. That's what FCP X has been using since the beginning on all machines.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Nicholas Kleczewski
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 3, 2013 at 12:11:59 am

He's talking about Intel's AVX. I too think there's something to that. The skimming speed limit mentioned above happened to me on a regular basis on a MacPro which does not have it, and happens to me absolutely never on my MBPr.

Director, Editor, Colorist
http://www.trsociety.com


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Bill Davis
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 5, 2013 at 3:08:20 am

Purely observational support, but I have the same experience.

My MacPro has a lot of minor (and some not so minor) issues running FCP-X. And my newer MacBook Pro has almost none.

Meet FCP-X.

It LOVES up to date hardware.
It LOVES lots of RAM.
It LOVES fast storage
It LOVES a knowledgable operator.
and it LOVES those who have the patience to let it do at least a decent amount of it's under the hood processing, before they start demanding it buckle down and consume huge edits like a beserk raver consumes bottled water.

It will tolerate a good bit of abuse. But not indifference and certainly not anyone who treats it with ignorance or foolishly naive expectations.

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Mike Fernanandes
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 3, 2013 at 6:38:37 am

Keep your media and the event on different drives

I did this fix for my show and it made a world of difference in performance of FCPX. And I don't think it has ever crashed since.

---

Make a new event on a local hard drive. And in preferences turn off copy files to Final cut Event Folder

Then drag your media from your external or different local drive to the event that is now on your local drive.

By doing so the event will only contain reference files.

Because Events are databases that are constantly saving every time you touch it the drive is trying to write and read media at the same exact time. This causes crazy bottlenecks that are only accented as the project gets larger. By splitting them you are freeing up that bandwidth to playback with out interruptions and to save with out interruptions.

We this is on out xsan and it was a night and day difference but I also still do it even when I'm working on a project at home simply with a external drive being my main storage and the Event database saving on a internal hard disk.

I did a super lame tutorial for my team about it ( http://www.loudyeti.com/archives/416 )

-----

Currently I'm working with 20 hours of footage and it's playing like a dream, no proxies and high quality playback settings.

loudyeti.com


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Mark Dobson
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 3, 2013 at 8:46:49 am

Hi Mike,

Could you just clarify how many separate hard drives you are talking about here.

[Mike Fernanandes] "We this is on out xsan and it was a night and day difference but I also still do it even when I'm working on a project at home simply with a external drive being my main storage and the Event database saving on a internal hard disk."

By default I normally create my events / projects on the same external drive that my core files are stored on. ( I might well reference other files on other drives also)

But what I understand you to be saying is that having the events / project folders on the same drive as your media is what can cause problems?

This is contrary to the way I've been working with FCPX.


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Mike Fernanandes
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 3, 2013 at 5:51:19 pm

Sure.

So on my two primary edit rigs I have three hard drives.

(1) Macintosh HD + (2) A Internal Media Drive + (3) External Storage ( 42TB San on Tower, SATA drive on Laptop )

(1) I don't usually put any events or projects on the drive as I like those to be SSD's so there isn't much room but you can.

(2) Has all my events

(3) Has all my media

----

When we started cutting in X we were adding San locations and just cutting where we stored stuff.

Performance was super slow, It took about 10 minutes for the program to load from that first start up. and then scrubbing and playback was jumpy and this all got worse the more footage we added to the project. On average our show produces about 20-25 hours of footage per episode.

But when I went home and cut on the laptop with the media external from the events ( due to space limitations on a laptop ) the exact same project booted in 8 seconds.

Once we did the same on the SAN we had huge performance boots everything was just snappier projects loaded in a fraction of the time, and it allowed us to share media much easier as with an added San location only one user can be accessing it at any given time.

loudyeti.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 3, 2013 at 6:38:33 pm

I don't know if XSan has a similar function, but I know with my SAN, we had to set our block level a little lower (which is a restripe), and then we had to dial down what is called the "Allocation Optimization Size".

This helps to read/write smaller files which is what is happening with FCP Events/Projects.

Jeremy


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Mark Dobson
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 4, 2013 at 8:39:12 am

[Mike Fernanandes] "So on my two primary edit rigs I have three hard drives.

(1) Macintosh HD + (2) A Internal Media Drive + (3) External Storage ( 42TB San on Tower, SATA drive on Laptop )

(1) I don't usually put any events or projects on the drive as I like those to be SSD's so there isn't much room but you can.

(2) Has all my events

(3) Has all my media"


Thanks Mike.


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Michael Hadley
Re: FCP X crashes on large jobs
on Feb 4, 2013 at 9:14:23 pm

The Crash Log Analyzer in the Pro Maintenance pack can be helpful in determining what is causing crashes. Also try deleting your event render files and trashing prefs.

Good luck.


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