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Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???

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Rich Kaelin
Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 12:39:09 am

When it first came out I heard that you should not install FCPX on an existing drive with FCP 7 running. I really want to try it, although I am nervous ( I cant even figure out iMovie, and I have been editing 27 years, but honesty, tried for about 15 minutes)
I figure I need to try it for myself, despite all the moaning and groaning, some people love it. It looks like a standard timeline and bin set up in the pics on website.
Main Question...can I just install and use next to FCP 7?
Secondary...I have perused a lot of this debate forum...what is the real difference in editing that everyone seems so hung up on? Do you have a timeline, and a bin for source footage, and transitions, and layers, etc? If so, how different can it be? Do you still get apple prores codecs, xdcam support, etc...prores is the main reason I want to stick with final cut, despite crossgrade, I did not go back to avid, and sorry, premiere and after effects look like crap without prores for footage, imho. I used premiere for years with matrox boards, but now dedicated boards are not needed, sooooo, I moved to Apple just g=for FCP, and was not impressed by 7. did not do some basic stuff. for example, if you wanted to do a talking head PIP over footage, you might want to crop to a more square box. but you calso might want a beveled edge. well, the crop cuts out the bevel. In other words, if you add a bevel, then crop left and right, top and botton stay beveled, but sides go to straigt edge. It does not matter in what order effects are applied. This does not happen in premiere of AE, but in bot FCP and Motion. Many similar examples as well. Any of that fixed?

Rich Kaelin
Kaelin Motion Production Services
http://kaelinmotion.com
New York


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Marcus Moore
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 12:42:41 am

You absolutely can. That rumour was dispelled on Day 1. There are no major issues that I know of.



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Michael Gissing
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 1:07:37 am

Are you running a AJA, Matrox or Decklink device? There are different drivers for X & 7 which is reason enough to partition your drive and keep a separate FCP7 install with OS away from the OS & FCPX install. The other issue is FCPX is 64 bit and FCP7 is 32 bit so you need to consider that when deciding which OS version.

If you need to have a stable working FCP7 I would advise the simple insurance of either cloning your drive before doing a clean OS & FCPX & FCP7 install or doing a system drive partition and dual booting. Check the Apple site for guidance on how to install both on the one OS. Personally I wouldn't recommend it as I need a perfect working FCS3 and have that still on SL. Eventually OS updates will have negative impacts on FCP7. On the FCP cow forum there have been many reports of people having issues with ML. dropped frames, firewire devices not initializing, esata RAID driver compatibility.

Although Marcus is right in that it can be done but doing it with perfect safety and maintaining a stable FCP7 is not without potential dangers and messy recovery.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 1:42:04 am

We were taking about this very fact here:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/344/16961

FYI, latest AJA drivers work with many manner of NLE. 7 and X included.

I also have a 64bit Snow Leopard boot and fcp7 works great.

I do not have my production fcs3 and fcpx together. My produ toon machine will stay like it is until its no longer needed on the next decade or so.

Jeremy


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Rich Kaelin
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 2:01:38 am

Okay, this has only confused me a little :) I do on location editing via a macbook pro, 2.5 GHz quad i7 running lion. I have a mac Pro tower with 8 xeon cpu's. on the laptop, how would I do a dual boot? Kind of limited drive space (750GB system drive.) can you boot an external drive? I do have a dual eSATA card. I only even consider this because I got a call requesting FCPX. apparently a client saw it and loved it...hope it works as nice as it looks.

Rich Kaelin
Kaelin Motion Production Services
http://kaelinmotion.com
New York


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 2:33:30 am

Does your laptop have a DVD drive or is it the newest crop of laptop?


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Neil Goodman
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 3:10:58 am

i got both FCP 7 and FCP X living quite happily on the same lion 10.7.5 boot. No need to complicate things.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Rich Kaelin
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 4:16:22 am

Has DVD drive, and I actually use occasionally, silly clients still want DVDs. I was thinking about removing it and adding second drive, possibly SSD. CAN I THEN PUT DVD DRIVE IN USB HOUSING, OR DO I HAVE TO BUY THE NICE ALUMINUM APPLE EXTERNAL DVD DRIVE? Also, can you boot from external drive?

Rich Kaelin
Kaelin Motion Production Services
http://kaelinmotion.com
New York


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 4:36:54 am

It's true there's no reason to complicate things, but it's also true that fcs3 is dead.

I have such a poke of old projects that I will need access to for years to come, that I literally can't afford to mess around, so perhaps I take this a bit too seriously.

In my older 17" laptop, I have two boot drives (got the data doubler from OWC). It's great. They also have an external case that you can use to make your DVD usable, sold separately.

One on drive I have fcs3 only. On the other, my more "experimental" drive, I have both. It does work just fine, but someday it might not.

I have a similar setup in one of our MacPros. The other production machines are all single boot drive stuck on Snow Leopard.

I'd keep at least one drive somewhere locked at snow leopard or lion with just fcs3. There's no harm and its not complicated.

Also, I realize everyone's needs are different. As I memtioned, I will need reliable access to my archive so I need to make sure that can be a reality.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 4:38:53 am

Oh, and yes booting from an external drive is possible, but performance isn't usually as speedy. esata is harder to boot from. Usb2or3, fw800, and now thunderbolt is best.


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Rich Kaelin
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 4:46:30 am

There is a 3rd party app that let's fcp7 projects open in fcpx.
http://assistedediting.intelligentassistance.com/7toX/
Don't know if its the only one. It is really cheap and from all I've heard it works.

Rich Kaelin
Kaelin Motion Production Services
http://kaelinmotion.com
New York


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Bill Davis
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 5:15:53 am

If you decide to dive into X in order to work on your client's request - I for one would be VERY interested in how it goes for someone who hasn't done any prior hands-on work on X and tries to dive in and drive it on a paid project with little or no direct practical experience.

Probably wouldn't shock me if it went OK. And it equally wouldn't shock me if you came back ranting that X is the evil soul of all that's wrong with the human experience.

Please do let us know!

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Rich Kaelin
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 5:28:40 am

I would be interested in why. What is so different? Screen shots look like standard editing form. I could not get iMovie at all, and everyone says it is like iMovie. I thought hat interface was counterintuitive. But I think motion is counterintuitive because I prefer AE. And no, we are going to work in 7... But 7 is dead, so it's move up or move over. I have premiere cs6' just does not work as well. Does anyone know how to throw program window to external monitor playback in PP. just curious.

Rich Kaelin
Kaelin Motion Production Services
http://kaelinmotion.com
New York


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Bill Davis
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 9:29:13 pm

[Rich Kaelin] "I would be interested in why. What is so different?"

It's hard to break down. But here are some things I think are issues that often stress folks coming to X for the first time.

First is the reality that prior editors had basically a single workspace interface. The timeline was where all your editing happened. You STILL edit in a timeline with X, but if you look at the program holistically, X is fundamentally built around a two-stage process with the Event Browser as a place where you can do a lot of truly prep work that can make a whole lot of what you do in your timeline later, easier and more efficient. So if you do that - go straight to the timeline to edit - you're hopping over a good bit of the power of the program right there. Remember, unlike most editing programs, FCP is built around a pretty robust relational database that communicates to the assets you use in sophisticated ways - so just focusing on putting clips in a timeline to start cutting them works - but you might as well be using a different tool. It's NOT how X was designed to operate.

And to some extent, the better you prep your assets in the Event Browser, the better they work in your storylines since you'll spend less time doing stuff like trimming and color correction "in situ" and more time establishing the relationship between clips, sounds and assets - that's where magnetism becomes powerful, because it lets you move complex pre- constructions as groups easily and fast.

The reason that I said you might NOT have problems at first, is that depending on the complexity and your goals, you might not need to do much more than just build a storyline - and that's not terribly different from any other NLE - save for getting your head around X's modal operations (the A, Q, W, E, and T key modes and how to position and manage clip connections so you stop fighting them.

Some people get this stuff fast, others not so fast - perhaps based on how much muscle memory they have to work around.

Some of the real new power and flexibility of X is lives in it's capabilities outside of JUST your storyline work - so operating it like a traditional NLE where ALL the power is in the timeline is not the most efficient way to do things.

Talent is arriving for my shoot, so that's all I have time for now. I'll try to stop back later.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Neil Goodman
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 10:13:32 pm

[Bill Davis] "First is the reality that prior editors had basically a single workspace interface. The timeline was where all your editing happened. You STILL edit in a timeline with X, but if you look at the program holistically, X is fundamentally built around a two-stage process with the Event Browser as a place where you can do a lot of truly prep work that can make a whole lot of what you do in your timeline later, easier and more efficient. So if you do that - go straight to the timeline to edit - you're hopping over a good bit of the power of the program right there. Remember, unlike most editing programs, FCP is built around a pretty robust relational database that communicates to the assets you use in sophisticated ways - so just focusing on putting clips in a timeline to start cutting them works - but you might as well be using a different tool. It's NOT how X was designed to operate."



Not sure about alot of the other guys, but even in most traditional NLe's most of the fine tuning is done in the source monitor before inserting to a timeline. Not sure why thats different in X.

To many the most obvious is lack of tracks and the magnetism.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Bill Davis
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 26, 2013 at 12:10:59 am

[Neil Goodman] "Not sure about alot of the other guys, but even in most traditional NLe's most of the fine tuning is done in the source monitor before inserting to a timeline. Not sure why thats different in X. "

Well, one primary difference is that when your working in the Event Browser, it's unnecessary to even have a project timeline CREATED let alone open. It's a separate space entirely, not a part of the single window editing tradition.

It's built that way (as Phil Hodgetts patiently explained to me last year) because the metadata flow inside X takes place in stages with the EB being the first place you typically attach editing metadata to your files, some or much of which then FLOWS into your Storylines. The key difference (at least in my thinking) has always been that the further upstream you make decisions, the more you can leverage the result of those decisions across multiple projects.

I think alot about "persistence" when using X. And try to remember to do things as far "upstream" as I can, so the program saves those decisions so I can use them again and again.

Its one reason I feel X appears to be so productive for experienced users. It's kinda not a "lets start over again" program. But more a "what did we create before that would be a useful shortcut or starting point for THIS project."

Look, I don't want to oversell these concepts. It truly is best to explore for yourself the REALITY behind the stuff I'm talking about rather than imagining what I mean - because it's easy to, for example imagine the nice metadata stream flowing through X that I often mention as some mighty river and think it's monstrously transformative - and that's NOT what I'm saying. It's there. It's wonderful to have. It makes sense and is really useful when it solves real world organizational or editing problems. It's NOT the end of hunger for the human race and I know that. Whether or not it means the same to you that it means to me is debatable.

But there IS a "there" there in my opinion - in FCP-X. One that I find a LOT of fun to explore - AND one that I've been able to use to make it easier for ME to cut a LOT of work with over the past year.

YMMV.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Dave Gage
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 10:15:21 pm

Bill or anyone,

(I'll also start a new thread in the Techniques forum, but I thought I'd post here first since Bill brought it up.)

[Bill Davis] "And to some extent, the better you prep your assets in the Event Browser, the better they work in your storylines since you'll spend less time doing stuff like trimming and color correction "in situ" and more time establishing the relationship between clips, sounds and assets"

I'm now beginning to do more prep work in the Event with a right-click to "Open in Timeline". Does anyone have or seen a list (or tutorial) of recommended actions to do in the Event Browser before beginning the edit? At this point, I'm only syncing up audio with video. I'll bet there's a bunch of tweaks that might make more sense to do in the Event vs. the Project.

Thanks,
Dave


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David Powell
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 5:48:23 am

Bill, I did that just 3 months ago. Opened it for the first time and cut a paid 3 camera project for a client who requested FCP X and have been using it with him ever since.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 4:39:32 pm

[Rich Kaelin] "There is a 3rd party app that let's fcp7 projects open in fcpx.
http://assistedediting.intelligentassistance.com/7toX/
Don't know if its the only one. It is really cheap and from all I've heard it works."


It does work. It is certainly not perfect, but it does work.

You have to have a working copy of FCP7 in order to export an XML out of it, however.

It also takes some time to reorganize once you're in FCPX as the organization formats don't transfer perfectly.

Jeremy


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Jim Giberti
Re: Can FCPX co-exist with FCP 7 ???
on Jan 25, 2013 at 7:25:31 pm

They coexist just fine, which makes it really easy to use 7toX.
Over time we've comfortably moved all of our 7 projects to X.


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